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Button Copy

Started by Mergingtraffic, March 14, 2021, 07:36:00 PM

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mrsman

Quote from: jdbx on April 02, 2021, 01:47:47 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on April 02, 2021, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 02, 2021, 09:38:46 AM
Quote from: mrsman on April 02, 2021, 07:48:19 AM
Quote from: jdbx on March 22, 2021, 12:33:40 PM
CA-242 is kind of a button-copy museum.  It was widened and had much of the signage replaced in the late 90's, and nearly every BGS is still button copy to this day.

There is still a greenout over the old CA-24 shield from when the freeway was renumbered around 1987:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9853606,-122.0409733,3a,75y,18.77h,77.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOVspqlEZIa3QXWqYOlZxIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

There is also a kind of unusual pull-through sign southbound where, instead of being signed as CA-242, it is "TO CA-24".  This sign was installed in the late 90's and I can only assume it is a relic of the previous numbering.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.98369,-122.0416546,3a,75y,173.03h,96.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snLArWxZxu7gL2Isn5NK77A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Why was that section of 24 renumbered to 242?  In my mind, having one consistent corridor from Oakland to Concord with one number would be easier than having to remember 24-680-242.  I know CA doesn't like multiplexing routes, but the multiplex here isn't that long.

24 has a planned reroute east of I-680 which was never built.  You can see it on this 1964 DOH map, it would have ended at 4 near Antioch:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/ll/thumbnailView.html?startUrl=%2F%2Fwww.davidrumsey.com%2Fluna%2Fservlet%2Fas%2Fsearch%3Fos%3D0%26lc%3DRUMSEY~8~1%26q%3DCALTRANs%201964%26sort%3DPub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No%26bs%3D10#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&r=0&xywh=1625%2C7379%2C965%2C1581



To add on to that:

242 was essentially a paper designation from 1964-1990 or so (similar to 164 along 19 in Pasadena, or 51 for Business 80 in Sacramento), with 24 concurrent with 680 (some evidence of this concurrency can be seen in BGS greenout near the 680/24 junction) and then running up 242 to 4.

I suspect part of the reason for the truncation of 24 back to Walnut Creek is for ease of identifying the two separate freeways in traffic reports, with 242 being considered a short north-south connector.



There is still a surviving sign from the multiplex days in Pleasant Hill on Contra Costa Blvd near Boyd Road that never got the greenout treatment:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9440155,-122.0606065,3a,75y,206.68h,92.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWbhyk8XPnatfKwdp90QvtA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Several signs in the area also sport the greenout, all of which are at least 30-35 years old:

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9332831,-122.0569202,3a,75y,267.43h,83.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWajdsGnkQftuHRsKiulZVg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9262908,-122.0612698,3a,75y,102.15h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s22knwtyChih3CLlAL3SEiQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

While the multiplex was only in the Walnut Creek area, I would contend that any mention of a control of Oakland that exists on 680 (which there seems to be signs of such on the highway or on streets that approach the highway south of the Benicia Bridge), 242, and CA-4 (which seems to have signage for Oakland as far as Antioch) in some way denotes the existence of the 242-680-24 as a single corridor (and thus hints to the historic signage of 24).

And that is a good thing, the 242 road is still the road to Oakland, even though it is basically confined to the Concord city limits.  Control cities are to be used to help the motoring public and letting them know how to get to the major cities is helpful, even if the individual roads no longer get them there directly because of a renumbering.  One can follow the controls and be guided along 242-680-24 to eventually reach the 980/580/24 interchange with guidance to Downtown Oakland, SF, or Hayward.

On a similar note, I-210 used to end at the Kellogg interchange (I-10/57/71) just west of Pomona.  From that interchange the control signage was I-210 west to Pasadena.  Of course with the CA-210 extension to the east, this part of I-210 is now a northern extension of CA-57.  AFAIK, this northern stretch of CA-57 has no control city.  I would argue that it would be helpful to re-include Pasadena as a control here on NB CA-57 from all approaches (except I-10 EB as it would be backtracking), especially as there is no good freeway connector to get to Pasadena further west.  [I-605 exists, but it points to the northeast, not northwest so it would not be efficient.]  Despite the renumbering, the road will still get you to Pasadena.


bing101


If you look at 3:28 and 3:37 of Asphalt Planets video of CA-210 this is where Caltrans last known Button Copy's were attached on BGS Gantries around the early 2000's time frame 


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210ed_ca.html


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210wa_ca.html


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210ec_ca.html


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210wb_ca.html


Here is a gallery of the CA-210 where it was notable for being one of the places with the last installed button copy sign on the BGS and also one of the the first to have a retro reflective BGS Signs on California freeways in the early 2000's





M3100

Here's an interchange sequence sign from northbound I-405 near Van Nuys. 4/9/21; traffic stopped due to emergency pothole repair.

andy3175

Quote from: bing101 on April 04, 2021, 08:28:43 PM

If you look at 3:28 and 3:37 of Asphalt Planets video of CA-210 this is where Caltrans last known Button Copy's were attached on BGS Gantries around the early 2000's time frame 


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210ed_ca.html


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210wa_ca.html


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210ec_ca.html


https://www.aaroads.com/california/i-210wb_ca.html


Here is a gallery of the CA-210 where it was notable for being one of the places with the last installed button copy sign on the BGS and also one of the the first to have a retro reflective BGS Signs on California freeways in the early 2000's





Near as I could tell, the first conversions of button copy signs to reflective signs happened a year or two before the exit numbering system was implemented (in 2002). So I believe the modern batch of reflective signs first came around 1999 or 2000.

The first places I saw them installed in large quantities from that early timeframe included a section of SR 99 near downtown Fresno, US 101 near downtown San Francisco, and the installation of replacement pull-through  Martin Luther King, Jr. Freeway signs along SR 94 through San Diego into Lemon Grove. This generation of signage was notable since there weren't exit numbers yet were reflective.

Along the last freeways I saw with pre-2000 button copy guide signs included SR 210 near the I-15 interchange, SR 15 through City Heights in San Diego, and SR 125 between SR 54 and SR 94. Many of these signs have since been replaced with reflective guide signs due to subsequent sign replacement projects.

As noted earlier, most button copy signs in San Diego have been replaced, and in recent travels through the Los Angeles area, many more have been replaced there too ... but many examples of button copy still remain at least for now.

SM-G975U

Regards,
Andy

www.aaroads.com

bing101

Quote from: SkyPesos on March 14, 2021, 08:07:53 PM
Is this thread for CA only or are we expanding it to all states?
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.0
We had a thread of button copy in the general highway talk.

Alps

Quote from: bing101 on April 15, 2021, 10:36:39 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on March 14, 2021, 08:07:53 PM
Is this thread for CA only or are we expanding it to all states?
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6539.0
We had a thread of button copy in the general highway talk.

It's in Pacific SW so let's see that NV and HI button copy!

roadfro

Quote from: Alps on April 16, 2021, 01:27:13 AM
It's in Pacific SW so let's see that NV and HI button copy!

Alas, to my knowledge, there's only one button copy sign left in the entire state of Nevada. It's the sign in the median of Las Vegas Blvd near Circus Circus which northbound points straight ahead to Downtown and southbound formerly showed outlined US 91 & US 466 shields (long since scraped off).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

mrsman

Quote from: roadfro on April 17, 2021, 03:46:49 AM
Quote from: Alps on April 16, 2021, 01:27:13 AM
It's in Pacific SW so let's see that NV and HI button copy!

Alas, to my knowledge, there's only one button copy sign left in the entire state of Nevada. It's the sign in the median of Las Vegas Blvd near Circus Circus which northbound points straight ahead to Downtown and southbound formerly showed outlined US 91 & US 466 shields (long since scraped off).

I was curious enough to look for this on GSV.  Enjoy!

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1393719,-115.1602553,3a,37.5y,174.83h,105.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCXmIrWskB8p8oKycMKm0-g!2e0!5s20200301T000000!7i16384!8i8192


roadfro

Quote from: mrsman on April 19, 2021, 10:45:18 AM
Quote from: roadfro on April 17, 2021, 03:46:49 AM
Quote from: Alps on April 16, 2021, 01:27:13 AM
It's in Pacific SW so let's see that NV and HI button copy!

Alas, to my knowledge, there's only one button copy sign left in the entire state of Nevada. It's the sign in the median of Las Vegas Blvd near Circus Circus which northbound points straight ahead to Downtown and southbound formerly showed outlined US 91 & US 466 shields (long since scraped off).

I was curious enough to look for this on GSV.  Enjoy!

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1393719,-115.1602553,3a,37.5y,174.83h,105.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sCXmIrWskB8p8oKycMKm0-g!2e0!5s20200301T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Apologies, I should have posted a link... especially because I had to search quickly for the exact location before I posted.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.



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