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I-66 HO/T Lanes

Started by froggie, January 23, 2015, 02:46:25 PM

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1995hoo

The images you're uploading aren't displaying–I get a grey "Do Not Enter"  symbol. (I saw the ad in the paper this morning, so I know what the image would have been, but others may not.)
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


DeaconG

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 12, 2017, 03:09:53 PM
The images you're uploading aren't displaying–I get a grey "Do Not Enter"  symbol. (I saw the ad in the paper this morning, so I know what the image would have been, but others may not.)

Same here.
Dawnstar: "You're an ape! And you can talk!"
King Solovar: "And you're a human with wings! Reality holds surprises for everyone!"
-Crisis On Infinite Earths #2

Jmiles32

Went to the I-66 Design Public Hearing in Bristow last night to both better see all the designs/plans, and to chat with VDOT employees about the upcoming mega-project.
One particular thing that I noticed from looking at the designs was located in the vicinity of the future and basically unrecognizable I-66/VA-28 interchange plans. While although an individual in both the eastbound and westbound express lanes will have direct access to Braddock and Walney Roads, individuals coming from Braddock and Walney Roads will only access to the westbound I-66 express lanes. I found that to be strange and asked a VDOT employee how someone coming from Braddock and Walney roads would supposedly access the eastbound I-66 express lanes. He at first also seemed a little surprised from the lack of a direct connection, however he eventually informed me that someone would either have to get on to VA-28 south and do a u-turn at the US-29 interchange or access the eastbound I-66 express lanes at another exit. He assumed this lack of a direct connection was due to the fact that there was basically no room left in the vicinity of the major interchange in which to add one. In no way does this make or break my opinion on the project, I just thought it was an interesting detail.

Also for the fun of it, I asked the same VDOT employee whether or not he thought VA-28 ever has a chance of becoming an interstate after the final lights are removed north of I-66. He told me(to my dismay) it was unlikely. However, he did state that he is in favor of extending VA-28 north into Maryland and believes that an HOV or even a similar HOT lane project could be in VA-28's future in about 5 to 10 years.
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

vdeane

Someone needs to introduce that VDOT guy to ethanman.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Jmiles32

Quote from: vdeane on November 17, 2017, 07:53:08 PM
Someone needs to introduce that VDOT guy to ethanman.
Haha yeah. His reasoning was that most spur interstates connect to a city center such as I-581, I-381, and I-395 and while VA-28 would go to Dulles Airport, he didn't think it would be a good enough "control city" to warrant an interstate designation. I obviously disagree with that logic( I didn't tell him) due to the fact that not all interstate spurs connect to downtown areas such as I-564 in  Norfolk, I-795 north of Baltimore, and I-195 south of Baltimore(BWI is its control city). I was expecting him to instead say that a change such as an interstate designation would cause too much confusion.
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

1995hoo

Heard on the radio this morning there is to be a groundbreaking ceremony today for the I-66 reconstruction outside the Beltway. They did not say where or when. The Governor's website says 2:00 PM at 5690 Sully Road. That's basically the southwest corner of the I-66/VA-28 interchange.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

#231
WAMU's Martin DiCaro has a story up about yesterday's groundbreaking ceremony. The part I found the most interesting was the video embedded in that story. The discussion of the Route 28 interchange begins at about the 2:20 mark. At 2:45, a text box appears in the lower right corner reading, "The interchange will be built to accommodate future Route 28 HOV lanes, reducing the impact on drivers during future construction." That's the first time I'd heard mention of HOV lanes on Route 28 and I couldn't help but wonder if they have something in mind or whether they're just trying to plan ahead. I assume the latter, but does anyone know?

Edited to add: I just looked back at the thread and I see Jmiles32 mentioned the prospect a few posts ago. Sounds like they're just planning ahead.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

74/171FAN

I heard advertisements on practically even DC station I listened to in my car when I drove through the area last night on the way to my parents' house.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

1995hoo

Quote from: 74/171FAN on November 22, 2017, 07:34:44 AM
I heard advertisements on practically even DC station I listened to in my car when I drove through the area last night on the way to my parents' house.

I tend to tune out commercials when I listen to FM radio, but I'd guess those are probably for the inside-the-Beltway HO/T system that begins operation on December 4.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

74/171FAN

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 22, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: 74/171FAN on November 22, 2017, 07:34:44 AM
I heard advertisements on practically even DC station I listened to in my car when I drove through the area last night on the way to my parents' house.

I tend to tune out commercials when I listen to FM radio, but I'd guess those are probably for the inside-the-Beltway HO/T system that begins operation on December 4.

Yes that is correct. 
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

1995hoo

We were on I-66 from the Roosevelt Bridge to the Beltway just after 5:30 last night. Interesting to discover the overhead VMS units that usually display travel time info are full-color signs–last night, they were displaying two screens of information about the start of tolling this coming Monday.

There was SERIOUS HOV enforcement last night, too–about six cop cars on the shoulder between Route 7 and the Beltway. Traffic slowed to a crawl to get by, which is probably what the cops wanted because they were pulling over loads of people. I think there were at least six violators stopped when we came through. (I kind of wished I had slowed more and asked Ms1995hoo to ask the cops to tell the idiot behind us to turn off her high-beams.) Channel 4's Adam Tuss apparently did a story this morning about there being stepped-up HOV enforcement over the next few days prior to the start of tolling. I didn't see the story, but if they post it online I'll edit this to include it. Perhaps the notion is that the current HOV violators might be considered likely to become toll cheats, either intentionally or through ignorance, and by pulling them over now maybe the idea is to give them one more warning about the start of tolling before they start getting expensive violation notices?
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mapmikey

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 29, 2017, 09:04:35 AM
We were on I-66 from the Roosevelt Bridge to the Beltway just after 5:30 last night. Interesting to discover the overhead VMS units that usually display travel time info are full-color signs–last night, they were displaying two screens of information about the start of tolling this coming Monday.

There was SERIOUS HOV enforcement last night, too–about six cop cars on the shoulder between Route 7 and the Beltway. Traffic slowed to a crawl to get by, which is probably what the cops wanted because they were pulling over loads of people. I think there were at least six violators stopped when we came through. (I kind of wished I had slowed more and asked Ms1995hoo to ask the cops to tell the idiot behind us to turn off her high-beams.) Channel 4's Adam Tuss apparently did a story this morning about there being stepped-up HOV enforcement over the next few days prior to the start of tolling. I didn't see the story, but if they post it online I'll edit this to include it. Perhaps the notion is that the current HOV violators might be considered likely to become toll cheats, either intentionally or through ignorance, and by pulling them over now maybe the idea is to give them one more warning about the start of tolling before they start getting expensive violation notices?

The VMS on the I-95 toll lanes were also warning of strict HOV/HOT enforcement yesterday afternoon...

1995hoo

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

#239
Weird. I'll see if I can find it later today.

Edited to add: Looks like they must have removed it overnight. I wonder why. The gist of the report was that he said the State Police are doing heavy HOV enforcement on I-66 this week in preparation for HO/T operations, but he said the reason is that violators would cause the toll prices to be higher because there would be more traffic. I guess–he did not say this, but it makes sense–the idea is that they have to come up with some sort of way to estimate what the initial tolls should be based on traffic under the existing rules, since they won't have sufficient HO/T data for some time. So the HOV violators contribute to the traffic counts and result in higher tolls during that initial period.

I'm not sure that theory is entirely convincing because it's by no means clear that the violators would not continue to use the road (whether legally with an E-ZPass or as toll violators). I guess we can reasonably assume some of them will use other roads because cheating will now have more consistent consequences–you fail to use an E-ZPass and you get a bill in the mail, whereas under the HOV system most days you probably won't get a ticket–but surely they won't all switch to other routes.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

Saw test patterns lit-up on a new I-66 HO/T lanes board while on VA-110 (Rosslyn) approaching I-66 in Rosslyn.

It looks like they have a purple "Toll" part of the sign that lights up with the word "toll", presumably when the HO/T restrictions are in effect.

1995hoo

Quote from: AlexandriaVA on November 30, 2017, 09:45:46 AM
Saw test patterns lit-up on a new I-66 HO/T lanes board while on VA-110 (Rosslyn) approaching I-66 in Rosslyn.

It looks like they have a purple "Toll" part of the sign that lights up with the word "toll", presumably when the HO/T restrictions are in effect.

The signs I've seen have the black word "Toll" on a yellow background that is to light up during the HO/T hours. (The foregoing includes various BGSs leading to that portion of I-66, such as approaching eastbound on I-66 from Nutley Street.) The white toll-rate signs also have a purple light-up panel that says "E-ZPass Required" and then, below the toll rates, a panel that for the next four-plus years will say "HOV 2+" to the left of the permanent words "NO TOLL." (This panel is designed so it can say "3+" when the time comes in 2022.) The white signs don't appear to have a mention of E-ZPass Flex as a requirement for the free ride.

I've noticed there are no white toll-rate signs going westbound out of DC over the Roosevelt Bridge. The existing VMS just before the Rosslyn exit has been modified to include the yellow "Toll" banner. I assume they plan to use the VMS panels to advertise the toll rates in a manner similar to the Beltway and I-95 lanes.

We got a flyer about the I-66 lanes in the mail last night as part of a larger advertising mailer. Ms1995hoo and I both found a couple of things to be a little bit misleading:

(1) They keep saying "Express Lanes" (usually, but not always, capitalized like that) are "opening on I-66 Inside the Beltway" during rush hour and that you can "choose to use the lanes." We found this to be misleading because they're not "opening" any new lanes. The road isn't going to change at all until they widen part of the inbound carriageway. We both felt saying "Express Lanes are opening" implies that they built something new, like on the Beltway, and we both felt that the word "express" implies that there's a "local" option (I guess you might say the surface streets are that option?). It's not so much a case of "choosing to use the lanes" as it is "choosing to use I-66 where in the past you may not have been allowed to do so."

(2) They still insist you will lock in your toll rate when you pass the second pricing sign "before entering the express lanes." That's not really true–you lock in your rate when you pass under the first toll gantry, which may be some distance away. If there's congestion for any reason, such as an accident, the rate may well change before you reach that gantry (this has happened to me on the Beltway lanes when there was a crash and traffic crawled down the ramp from I-66 to the Inner Loop–it's a mile and a half from the toll rate sign near Virginia Lane on I-66 to the first toll gantry just north of Route 29 on the Beltway, and when it took over ten minutes to drive that distance, the toll went up by over a dollar.) The first westbound gantry is west of the partial interchange with Route 29 near Spout Run Parkway (Exit 72) just before you pass under that parking structure near the planetarium. That's a pretty good distance if traffic is heavy. It's an extreme example, but I remember the night there was an overturned car on the inbound side at that exit. Obviously, westbound traffic crawled. I don't think they should mislead people by saying you lock in your price when you pass the toll sign. (I do think this is a good reason for putting the gantries at the entrance points, meaning over the on- and off-ramps and over the mainline where the tolling begins and ends, instead of configuring it the way they have.)

The centered subheading on the flyer's inside is the best summary: "Starting in December 2017, anyone can travel on I-66 from I-495 to U.S. Route 29 in Rosslyn." I think that's a great summary of what the HO/T project does on that road and I think they should have used that tagline from the beginning. Of course if that's all you say you're guilty of a major oversimplification, but it's an excellent summary.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mapmikey

Quote from: 1995hoo on November 30, 2017, 10:22:24 AM


(2) They still insist you will lock in your toll rate when you pass the second pricing sign "before entering the express lanes." That's not really true–you lock in your rate when you pass under the first toll gantry, which may be some distance away. If there's congestion for any reason, such as an accident, the rate may well change before you reach that gantry (this has happened to me on the Beltway lanes when there was a crash and traffic crawled down the ramp from I-66 to the Inner Loop–it's a mile and a half from the toll rate sign near Virginia Lane on I-66 to the first toll gantry just north of Route 29 on the Beltway, and when it took over ten minutes to drive that distance, the toll went up by over a dollar.) The first westbound gantry is west of the partial interchange with Route 29 near Spout Run Parkway (Exit 72) just before you pass under that parking structure near the planetarium. That's a pretty good distance if traffic is heavy. It's an extreme example, but I remember the night there was an overturned car on the inbound side at that exit. Obviously, westbound traffic crawled. I don't think they should mislead people by saying you lock in your price when you pass the toll sign. (I do think this is a good reason for putting the gantries at the entrance points, meaning over the on- and off-ramps and over the mainline where the tolling begins and ends, instead of configuring it the way they have.)



This is also likely an issue on the new extension of the 95 Express lanes at Garrisonville.  There is no added gantry between the new first entrance and the one that had been first (2+ miles away).  The displayed toll rates at both locations are usually the same, but at least once with nothing slowing traffic down the rate displayed went up at the 2nd entrance after I entered the lanes at the 1st entrance.  So I assume I ended up paying the higher one.

Incidentally, after a month in operation, 95 NB at SR 610 Exit 143 is still wide open now at the time I pass through.  The 2+ mile crawl has not re-materialized.

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 30, 2017, 12:14:10 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on November 29, 2017, 05:28:36 PM
Here is Adam Tuss's report (video link):

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/I66-Toll-Crackdown_Washington-DC-460792533.html

I checked if there might be some cache version on Google or Bing, I archived the Bing cache on Archive.is http://archive.is/2cyx0

I get a 404 on that.

Appears to have been taken down.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

#245
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 02, 2017, 11:02:31 PM
Washington Post: Interstate 66 tolling starts Monday. Here's what you need to know.

"from Route 29 in Rosslyn to Interstate 495
"The hours of [variable tolling] operation will be 5:30 to 9:30 a.m. eastbound and 3 to 7 p.m. westbound, Monday through Friday.
The lanes will be free to all users during off-peak hours and weekends."

Different from the I-495 and I-95/I-395 HOT lanes, which toll 24/7/365.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
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1995hoo

Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 02, 2017, 11:02:31 PM
Washington Post: Interstate 66 tolling starts Monday. Here's what you need to know.

Don't read the comments under that article (other than mine :bigass:) unless you want to feel your intelligence dribbling away. The usual collection of whiners and hand-wringers. If they actually oppose the project so strongly, where were they when it was proposed and during the public comment process? Then there's the guy who claims it's "unfair" that this article ran today and tolling starts tomorrow because that's not enough time to get a transponder and VDOT didn't publicize it. I've been seeing publicity from both VDOT and the local media at least since October.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Jmiles32

It's amusing how so many individuals think that money for road projects/improvements just fall out of the sky. Overall I support the project, but probably agree with most that the expanded hours might be a stretch. Would much rather see 6:30 to 9:30 a.m eastbound and 3 to 6 p.m. westbound. Will be interesting to see if people do start more heavily using local roads parallel to I-66 like US-50 and US-29. Either way, I would like to see some of the revenue collected by VDOT go towards improving US-50 inside the beltway(widening to six lanes and more interchanges).

Also, will the I-66 Spot 3 improvements still happen? The project is on Vdot's website but I haven't heard anything about in a while. It would construct an auxiliary lane connecting the on-ramp from Route 29 (Lee Highway) Exit 72 to the off-ramp to North Glebe Road (Route 120) on westbound I-66.
Aspiring Transportation Planner at Virginia Tech. Go Hokies!

oscar

#248
Edit: Just saw a halftime report on the local Fox affiliate. The report mentioned the new I-66 rules, but didn't mention that only the inside the Beltway part is affected by tomorrow's changes. Not helping is that the accompanying video shows shots only of the outside the Beltway part of I-66 (looks like near the VA 123 interchange). This is bound to confuse viewers who weren't in the bathroom getting ready for the second half of the Panthers-Saints game.

Quote from: Jmiles32 on December 03, 2017, 10:54:48 AM
Overall I support the project, but probably agree with most that the expanded hours might be a stretch. Would much rather see 6:30 to 9:30 a.m eastbound and 3 to 6 p.m. westbound.
Existing hours are 6:30-9am eastbound and 4-6:30pm westbound. DC area rush hours run late, moving the cutoff back to 6pm is unrealistic. Even with the existing hours, you get congestion for people traveling early or late to beat the HOV restrictions. The expanded hours are a good solution for that problem, though I can see some people working even later than they do now to beat the tolls.

I'm retired, but occasionally take I-66 weekdays outside HOV hours to get from one side of Arlington to the other. Whenever I travel on I-66 WB in the 3-4pm time slot, I usually run into congestion, sometimes to the point of worrying I'll be trapped into an HOV violation if I can't exit I-66 before 4pm. For me, letting me use I-66 for a toll in that time slot is marginally helpful, even though I'm done out of a chance to avoid both toll and HOV restrictions. Of course, I'll have to make sure I have a transponder mounted in the vehicle I'm using (right now, I have one transponder for two vehicles, switching as needed).

QuoteAlso, will the I-66 Spot 3 improvements still happen? The project is on Vdot's website but I haven't heard anything about in a while. It would construct an auxiliary lane connecting the on-ramp from Route 29 (Lee Highway) Exit 72 to the off-ramp to North Glebe Road (Route 120) on westbound I-66.

Spot Improvements 1 and 2 have been done, and are working well. #3, which you mention, seems to have gotten a little work lately, but not enough to put it on track to completion unless the toll project would provide funding. It's always been the least-expensive but also least helpful spot improvement, though it's cheap enough that it would be a quick fix for one of the bottlenecks for westbound traffic.

It was also the least controversial of the spot improvements. I heard some whining from a bicyclist who uses the parallel bike trail, who didn't realize that I-66 wouldn't be widened in the part right next to the trail, and the part that would be widened is separated from the bike trail by the concrete pillars for a high school parking lot above the freeway.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Mapmikey

At 5:35 this morning the toll from I-495 to Washington DC was posted as $8.50

IIRC the toll to Wash Blvd was something like $3.50.



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