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Americans Driving on the Left

Started by JayhawkCO, October 21, 2022, 10:01:38 PM

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J N Winkler

Quote from: abefroman329 on December 19, 2022, 06:48:16 AMI've been driving in England for almost two weeks now and what do I keep doing?  That's right, getting in the driver's seat and reaching over my left shoulder for the seatbelt.

I blame this board.

As long as you're not turning right into the right lane . . .  (Anne Sacoolas received her prison sentence 11 days ago.)

Hope you're having fun!
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini


Rothman

Quote from: J N Winkler on December 19, 2022, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 19, 2022, 06:48:16 AMI've been driving in England for almost two weeks now and what do I keep doing?  That's right, getting in the driver's seat and reaching over my left shoulder for the seatbelt.

I blame this board.

As long as you're not turning right into the right lane . . .  (Anne Sacoolas received her prison sentence 11 days ago.)

Hope you're having fun!
Makes me think of Matthew Broderick in Ireland.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

J N Winkler

Quote from: Rothman on December 19, 2022, 12:40:17 PMMakes me think of Matthew Broderick in Ireland.

Yup.  August 5, 1987, in Enniskillen, Northern Ireland.  Two people dead, and a career pause for Jennifer Grey, who was riding with him and was seriously injured.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

skluth

All I can think of while reading this thread is this


jakeroot

It's been about a month and half now since I moved to Japan and started driving RHD/LHT. Here's my thoughts:

* Any difficulty of driving on the left passed pretty quick. I honestly don't think much of it. Staying left may take some extra thought at first, but it doesn't take more than a couple days of driving, at most, before you've done it so much that it's almost second-nature. I've slipped and accidentally went to the wrong side a couple times, but it was always two-lane unmarked roads where driving in the wrong direction would have already been common thanks to parked cars or pedestrians.

* Driving on the right side of the car took much longer to get used to. At first, I found myself leaning left a lot, I think because I'm used to seeing the road from the other side of the car, and being on the right side just felt "wrong". This feeling has since passed, but there are some other difficulties, like hugging the left edge of the lane (caused, I think, from being used to sitting on the left edge of the lane). My friend here taught me to "keep [my] butt on the line", and that has helped me a bit.

abefroman329

Quote from: J N Winkler on December 19, 2022, 12:37:41 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on December 19, 2022, 06:48:16 AMI've been driving in England for almost two weeks now and what do I keep doing?  That's right, getting in the driver's seat and reaching over my left shoulder for the seatbelt.

I blame this board.

As long as you're not turning right into the right lane . . .  (Anne Sacoolas received her prison sentence 11 days ago.)

Hope you're having fun!
Ha - thanks! I am having fun, and it seems to be an utter mystery to everyone else on this trip as to why I could possibly have fun driving in England.

MultiMillionMiler

I thought this thread was going to be a dig against left lane hogs for a second and that the title was sarcastic LOL

England isn't the only place that observes left hand traffic laws. Countries like Singapore do as well. I've never been overseas myself but I would guess it would take time getting used to passing on the right, and exiting left. Personally I've never understood the appeal of left instead of right, since most people are right handed. For the same reason its easier to parallel park to the right.

JayhawkCO

I'm sad that, as the OP of this thread, I won't even get my chance to try out my UK driving as my wife has "cancelled" our trip to Scotland on me and told me to take a trip by myself. (This is not a euphemism for divorce. :))  Interestingly enough, I will only be traveling in left-hand-traffic countries (Thailand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan) other than one layover (Taiwan), but I am not a crazy enough person to want to drive in south Asia.

abefroman329

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 09:29:38 AMpassing on the right
That is, without a doubt, the hardest thing to wrap your mind around.  Not just that, but the whole concept of the leftmost lane being the slowest lane.

kphoger

Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 09:29:38 AM
I've never understood the appeal of left instead of right, since most people are right handed.

That's my issue too:  I'd rather shift with my dominant hand.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

It's often theorized that the custom of driving on the left probably originates from medieval days of travel on horseback. Riding on the left was generally preferred in case of an encounter with a hostile stranger because riding on the left put one's dominant hand, which would be used to handle weapons, on the side closer to where the stranger would be.

The USA, in contrast, had no custom deriving from medieval days other than, perhaps, something derived from British custom, but apparently it is widely theorized that the American custom of keeping to the right originated with carts drawn by teams of horses or oxen where the typically right-handed driver would ride one of the animals located on the left side of the team; that, in turn, led drivers to prefer to keep to the right because it made it easier to pass someone coming the other way.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

MultiMillionMiler

That's a great point. I never thought of it like that. I assumed it had something to do with driving on the right side due to the majority being right-handed, but that makes alot more sense. What side the controls of the car are on are based on what side of the road you drive on, not the other way around, so I don't think it's based on that. Unless there is some tangible benefit of controls being on one side. (I always felt they should be in the center).

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 22, 2022, 12:45:03 PM
It's often theorized that the custom of driving on the left probably originates from medieval days of travel on horseback. Riding on the left was generally preferred in case of an encounter with a hostile stranger because riding on the left put one's dominant hand, which would be used to handle weapons, on the side closer to where the stranger would be.

The USA, in contrast, had no custom deriving from medieval days other than, perhaps, something derived from British custom, but apparently it is widely theorized that the American custom of keeping to the right originated with carts drawn by teams of horses or oxen where the typically right-handed driver would ride one of the animals located on the left side of the team; that, in turn, led drivers to prefer to keep to the right because it made it easier to pass someone coming the other way.

Correct.  If you don't like the US system, then you can blame the Teamsters.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Hobart

Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 22, 2022, 12:45:03 PM
It's often theorized that the custom of driving on the left probably originates from medieval days of travel on horseback. Riding on the left was generally preferred in case of an encounter with a hostile stranger because riding on the left put one's dominant hand, which would be used to handle weapons, on the side closer to where the stranger would be.

The USA, in contrast, had no custom deriving from medieval days other than, perhaps, something derived from British custom, but apparently it is widely theorized that the American custom of keeping to the right originated with carts drawn by teams of horses or oxen where the typically right-handed driver would ride one of the animals located on the left side of the team; that, in turn, led drivers to prefer to keep to the right because it made it easier to pass someone coming the other way.

Correct.  If you don't like the US system, then you can blame the Teamsters.

Obviously the mob didn't like the US system... RIP Jimmy Hoffa.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

jakeroot

#64
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 22, 2022, 12:45:03 PM
It's often theorized that the custom of driving on the left probably originates from medieval days of travel on horseback. Riding on the left was generally preferred in case of an encounter with a hostile stranger because riding on the left put one's dominant hand, which would be used to handle weapons, on the side closer to where the stranger would be.

I actually think this is not just a theory, but a fact. It's the reason why Japan drives on the left as well: kept their right (often dominate) hand available to engage with an oncoming combatant.

I believe keeping left was the rule world-wide until France adopted right-hand traffic in the late 1700s, I think by Napolean. For what reason, I don't know. But that rule would ultimately influence other countries to keep right, such as those colonised by France and those with which France shared a border.

Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 12:38:37 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 21, 2022, 09:29:38 AM
I've never understood the appeal of left instead of right, since most people are right handed.

That's my issue too:  I'd rather shift with my dominant hand.

Fun-fact: they say left-hand traffic countries are safer because most people are right-eye dominant. The right eye being closer to oncoming traffic and the driver's mirror.

Shifting with the dominant hand is actually why the US drivers on the right. Farmers Teamsters found it easier to handle horse whips with their right hand, so they sat on the left and kept right.

kphoger

Quote from: jakeroot on December 22, 2022, 08:42:02 PM
Farmers found it easier to handle horse whips with their right hand, so they sat on the left and kept right.

Teamsters.  Farmers just ride wherever they want.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

I've heard Brits argue that driving on the left is better because you can have a consistent rule of yielding to the right that applies in all situations, rather than suddenly yielding to the other direction at roundabouts.

Really, to me it's made no difference whenever I've driven on the other side except for maneuvering in tight spaces like indoor parking garages with pillars, which I think a prior post of mine in this thread mentions (the bulk of the car being on the other side makes it trickier in tight spaces, though I guess if it makes you concentrate more, that's not bad either).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

I wasn't aware that Brits had a general 'give way to the right' rule to begin with.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 10:09:00 PMI wasn't aware that Brits had a general 'give way to the right' rule to begin with.

There isn't.  There is, in fact, no priority rule comparable to priorité à droite in France.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

jakeroot

Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 08:49:40 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 22, 2022, 08:42:02 PM
Farmers found it easier to handle horse whips with their right hand, so they sat on the left and kept right.

Teamsters.  Farmers just ride wherever they want.

True, thank you.

abefroman329

Quote from: J N Winkler on December 22, 2022, 10:45:57 PM
Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 10:09:00 PMI wasn't aware that Brits had a general 'give way to the right' rule to begin with.

There isn't.  There is, in fact, no priority rule comparable to priorité à droite in France.
Im not sure if one is even needed, given the absence of three- and four-way stop signs, or anything even resembling one. The dashed line across the road you're traveling on tells you who needs to give way to who.

kphoger

Quote from: abefroman329 on December 23, 2022, 03:06:01 AM

Quote from: J N Winkler on December 22, 2022, 10:45:57 PM

Quote from: kphoger on December 22, 2022, 10:09:00 PM
I wasn't aware that Brits had a general 'give way to the right' rule to begin with.

There isn't.  There is, in fact, no priority rule comparable to priorité à droite in France.

Im not sure if one is even needed, given the absence of three- and four-way stop signs, or anything even resembling one. The dashed line across the road you're traveling on tells you who needs to give way to who.

While not necessarily common, there are uncontrolled intersections in Britain.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

It's difficult to put hard numbers on the relative prevalence of or traffic volume handled by uncontrolled intersections in Britain versus the US.  However, the fact that give-way lines suffice legally to indicate a give-way requirement (except in roadworks situations)--something that is not true for yields in the US--does give traffic practitioners more flexibility.  I've seen give-way lines without signs at intersections that in the US would plausibly be left without priority control.

This said, it seems to me that the deliberate lack of a rule comparable to priorité à droite encourages defensive driving by not creating a false expectation that the other driver will yield at an uncontrolled intersection.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

1995hoo

My point was simply that someone made the argument, not what the law over there actually is.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on December 23, 2022, 01:36:52 PM
My point was simply that someone made the argument, not what the law over there actually is.

That's what I figured.  After I read your post, I looked up various webpages and forum posts about right-of-way in Britain, specifically at uncontrolled intersections.  All of them mentioned that turning traffic should yield to through-traffic, and also that it's appropriate for small vehicles to yield to large ones, but not a single one of them mentioned yield-to-the-right as expected or even common practice.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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