Importing a US plated car back into the Us from Mexico

[klvez]

So on my recent trip to Mexico, I stumbled upon a car that I've been looking to buy for a while now. I decided to pull the trigger and go through with the purchase. The car is a '94 BMW e36 and it happens to be an Arizona car. My plan is to build it/restore it while I'm out here and hopefully drive it or tow it back to the states once I'm done. I have the title and everything but my question is how I would go about it or what the process would be like? Since I'm guessing it has been down here for a while, meaning that the temporary permit has been expired, and it still has Arizona plates, what do I need to do in order to make this happen?

[kphoger]

As part of the importation process at CBP, you'd have to prove that it still meets US emissions and safety regs, which is no simple task.  Most people online say re-importing a Mexico-nationalized vehicle is impossible, but there are few success stories out there.  They're rare, though, as the process you speak of is a monumental task.

Here's a good place to get started:  https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import-export/importing-car

[kphoger]

I guess I should get clarification from you:

1.  What do you mean, "it happens to be an Arizona car"?

2.  Is the title a US or Mexican title?

[klvez]

I guess I should get clarification from you:

1.  What do you mean, "it happens to be an Arizona car"?

2.  Is the title a US or Mexican title?

the car came from arizona and it still has the original US plates and title. the previous owner was able to drive it around town with the use of some type of permit. it hasn't been nationalized here in mexico which i'm guessing it still allows it to be considered a US car despite it being down here with an expired permit for a couple of years now

[kphoger]

I guess I should get clarification from you:

1.  What do you mean, "it happens to be an Arizona car"?

2.  Is the title a US or Mexican title?

the car came from arizona and it still has the original US plates and title. the previous owner was able to drive it around town with the use of some type of permit. it hasn't been nationalized here in mexico which i'm guessing it still allows it to be considered a US car despite it being down here with an expired permit for a couple of years now

OK.  So, legally speaking, it sounds like the car is just a US vehicle that happens to be in Mexico.  So, in theory, all you have to do is just drive it north across the border.  However, in reality, it might be more complicated.

The first issue is that you'd be driving a vehicle that is illegally in Mexico.  The previous owner probably had either some type of visa or a tourist card (FMM), and had a temporary import permit.  Chances are, if that's the case, then you can still see a hologrammatic sticker on the windshield, or at least the residue from one–assuming it was done before Mexico did away with the stickers about a year ago.  Those temporary import permits are only good for a certain amount of time, and it sounds like the owner didn't return the vehicle to the USA before it expired.  This means the vehicle no longer has any legal status in Mexico, and driving it could get you in hot water.

You could chance it and just drive north.  At any roadside checkpoint, though, or if any police officer pulls you over for any reason, it's likely they'll ask to see the import permit paperwork.  Honestly, they care more about that piece of paper than about anything else.  There's always a chance you could explain your situation to the officer and that you're heading to border, but I certainly can't promise you they wouldn't still fine you or even impound the car on the spot.

Then there's the matter of being black-listed.  From what I know, the original owner can no longer bring any vehicle into Mexico, because his/her identity has been black-listed in the database.  What I don't know, however, is whether you as the new owner of the vehicle would also end up black-listed.  If so, then you wouldn't be able to bring a vehicle into Mexico either.

Unfortunately, you may need further information that I cannot provide.  However, I can suggest two resources to you:

1.  Mexico Mike.  He is an expat who has lived in Mexico for years.  If you e-mail him your questions, he might simply give you the answers.  Or he might require that you pay for his services, which is something he does.  That might be worth it to you.  If your situation ends up requiring actual legal assistance, he's a trustworthy place to turn.

2.  Expat Forum.  Sign up, and ask your question there.  Someone on that forum is bound to know the answers to your questions and can offer you advice–but take everything with a grain of salt, because the quality of each response will depend on the person giving it.  Some members are long-term expats with a lot of experience, but others will just give you their best guess based on some situation they had twenty years ago.

[kphoger]

I've been giving this some more thought today, and I've pretty much decided that you should steer clear of that vehicle.  Allow me to explain.

That BMW is what Mexicans call a chocolate–an American car that has either been brought down to Mexico illegally or no longer has legal status in Mexico.  In fact, that vehicle cannot be nationalized in Mexico, because it was not manufactured in North America, and only NAFTA cars can be nationalized.  Therefore, the only possible way it could have been legal in the first place is if the former owner obtained a temporary import permit in conjunction with either a visa or tourist card.

Having said that, allow me to tell you what I know about temporary vehicle import permits.  First of all, in order to obtain a TIP, the driver must provide the following documentation at the border:  title or current registration in the same name, valid driver's license in the same name, current visa or tourist card in the same name, valid passport in the same name.  Notice how many times I just typed "in the same name"?  That's because the only way to obtain a TIP for a vehicle in someone else's name is to also provide written (notarized?) permission from the owner as well as the above documentation.  Then the driver must also provide a monetary guarantee (cash or plastic) that he/she will return the vehicle back out of Mexico before the TIP expires ($200 to $400, depending on model year).  While in Mexico, a US-plated vehicle may only be driven if either of the following is physically in the vehicle at the time:  (a) the person whose name is on the TIP, or (b) a direct relative of him/her.

So where does that leave you?  Well, as far as the Mexican government knows, the former owner of the car is still the owner of the car.  Without that person in the vehicle, it may not be legally driven.  Period.  Now, people whose paperwork has expired have been known to get a special permit to drive directly to the border (do not pass Go, do not collect $200), issued by a Consulate or some such agency.  However, once again, you are not the vehicle's owner as far as they're concerned, so I rather doubt you could obtain such a permit.

If you were to make a border run in that vehicle, then there is a good chance you could be detained by any police officer you happened to run across along the way, because you'd be driving a vehicle in someone else's name, which has no valid status in Mexico, with the legal owner nowhere to be found.  You sure as heck wouldn't catch me doing that!

Now, if you were somehow able to get the car back into the USA without it being impounded, your going to jail, or your having to bribe your way out of a police station, I'm guessing you'd be in the clear.  That is to say, you'd still be able to drive some other vehicle into Mexico in the future–but not that one.

Short story:  Don't do it.

[Scott5114]

As a condition of the purchase, could you not require the person named on the TIP accompany you back to the United States in order to ensure the transit is legal?

Of course, this presupposes that the person selling the car is named on the TIP, and that they'd be willing to use a day dealing with the bureaucracy with you. Probably not worth the hassle when there's thousands of used cars available in the US without those hassles.

[bwana39]

If you can get it past the border, all you would need is a dealer plate to get it to where you wanted.

There is a guy named Ed Bolian he has a website called https://vinwiki.com/, He probably would love to hear your story and might have some tips.

His phone number is on his site. This is his email address. ed@vinwiki.com

His youtube channel is lots of fun too. It is video, but I listen to the stories and ignore the video while I drive.

[NJRoadfan]

If its a US car, all you need to do is make an appointment with border control at a checkpoint that can handle car imports. All US market cars will have the required FMVSS certification tag in the driver's door jamb along with the EPA certification sticker under the hood. Even then, its 25+ years old so there are no restrictions on imports otherwise. I would be more concerned about if the car was flagged as stolen in the USA though. That could complicate things.

A 1994 e36 BMW is NOT a rare car though. Is it really worth the hassle vs. finding one for sale in the USA? If you are going thru the hassle of importing a 25+ year old BMW, import a model from Germany that we didn't get here.

[Scott5114]

kphoger's posts make it sound like getting it across the border is the easy part. It's getting it to the border in the first place that poses a problem.

[CtrlAltDel]

kphoger's posts make it sound like getting it across the border is the easy part. It's getting it to the border in the first place that poses a problem.

I noticed that too. Makes me wonder if it might be a good idea to put it on a truck until you're in the border crossing area.

[kphoger]

kphoger's posts make it sound like getting it across the border is the easy part. It's getting it to the border in the first place that poses a problem.

Correct.  It still has a US title, so there would be no need to have anybody at the border inspect the vehicle at all when driving north.  You'd simply drive it across and be on your merry way.  I've never had anybody on the US side of the border ask to see any vehicle documentation–only on the Mexican side.

Now, there have plenty of times I've driven to or from the border in Mexico without ever encountering a checkpoint or police officer.  But there have been other times I've had multiple stops.  I was once even asked for my vehicle permit by local police in a town of 20k population 300 miles from the border.  Nearly every single time I've been stopped, whether by the military or the federales or local/municipal police, I've been required to show my vehicle permit.  I've never once been asked to show liability insurance, but I've almost always been asked to show the permit.

Another thing I hadn't thought of till now is that some Mexican states have begun requiring US-plated vehicles to have current registration at all times.  It used to be that your plates didn't have to be valid, as long as your permit still was.  (When driving back stateside to renew your plates, that presented the dilemma of how to get from the border back to your US hometown, but it didn't matter on the south side of the border.)  However, some states, and I don't know exactly which ones, could cite you from driving a vehicle on expired tags even if those tags are US tags.

[kphoger]

kphoger's posts make it sound like getting it across the border is the easy part. It's getting it to the border in the first place that poses a problem.

I noticed that too. Makes me wonder if it might be a good idea to put it on a truck until you're in the border crossing area.

Even if it's being towed, it would still need to have legal papers.  There's no legal loophole of "if it's on a trailer, then it doesn't have to be legal here".  The whole system is designed to discourage selling slightly used American cars in Mexico (and thereby undercutting the Mexican auto-making industry), and all that would do is prompt sellers to buy trailers first.

[CtrlAltDel]

kphoger's posts make it sound like getting it across the border is the easy part. It's getting it to the border in the first place that poses a problem.

I noticed that too. Makes me wonder if it might be a good idea to put it on a truck until you're in the border crossing area.

Even if it's being towed, it would still need to have legal papers.  There's no legal loophole of "if it's on a trailer, then it doesn't have to be legal here".  The whole system is designed to discourage selling slightly used American cars in Mexico (and thereby undercutting the Mexican auto-making industry), and all that would do is prompt sellers to buy trailers first.

Fair enough. My point, though, was that if the car is out of view in a truck, the police or whoever won't think to ask for the papers. That said, I don't know how often trucks are inspected, so it still might not be worth it.

[kphoger]

You mean hire an 18-wheeler or straight truck to haul your vehicle inside?  And then deliver it where?  Ha!  You'd need a truck-level dock for both loading and unloading.

At some point, even after the incredibly costly expense of hiring an entire truck to haul your illegal vehicle (good luck finding one to agree to that, by the way), you'd still have to drive it to the border from wherever the truck delivered the vehicle.

And yeah, I can only imagine the fun that would ensue when highway patrol opened the roll-up door and found an illegal car inside...

[klvez]

If its a US car, all you need to do is make an appointment with border control at a checkpoint that can handle car imports. All US market cars will have the required FMVSS certification tag in the driver's door jamb along with the EPA certification sticker under the hood. Even then, its 25+ years old so there are no restrictions on imports otherwise. I would be more concerned about if the car was flagged as stolen in the USA though. That could complicate things.

A 1994 e36 BMW is NOT a rare car though. Is it really worth the hassle vs. finding one for sale in the USA? If you are going thru the hassle of importing a 25+ year old BMW, import a model from Germany that we didn't get here.

I am aware of the availability of the car in the states; however,  the condition of the car is what is making me want to take it back home. finding one under 100k miles, 0 rust, plus a five speed manual is becoming both hard and expensive to find out there. it wasn't driving which is why the previous owner let it go for $500. with basic maintenance and the replacement of a couple of cracked hoses, we managed to get it driving perfectly with no more than $100 in parts. I've seen plenty of examples surpass the $6k mark in the same condition and will continue to go up due to it's capabilities and recent increase in popularity. It is why I am willing to go through the process lol

[klvez]

You mean hire an 18-wheeler or straight truck to haul your vehicle inside?  And then deliver it where?  Ha!  You'd need a truck-level dock for both loading and unloading.

At some point, even after the incredibly costly expense of hiring an entire truck to haul your illegal vehicle (good luck finding one to agree to that, by the way), you'd still have to drive it to the border from wherever the truck delivered the vehicle.

And yeah, I can only imagine the fun that would ensue when highway patrol opened the roll-up door and found an illegal car inside...

I appreciate all of the help and the info! I am aware of all of the possible difficulties and complications of driving it back up to the border with its current status which is why I initially thought about getting it towed up there instead. I was more so unsure about the whole legal process of getting it through the border, most of which has been answered through the info provided. Although I don't have a problem with leaving it here, it would be cool to find a way to take it back and think would make up for a cool story haha

[Scott5114]

If you're already on the hook for it, the best thing to do at this point may be to hire a Mexican lawyer to figure out the best way to finesse the issue.

[renegade]

My two cents' worth.  Was mentioned further upthread that the car could be stolen.  You said you have title.  Just wanted to say that some dumbasses are stupid enough to keep the title in their glove compartment.  Forgery is easy.  Your mileage may vary.  Good luck.  Keep us posted with your journey.

Read my signature line very carefully.

[NJRoadfan]

Run the VIN thru the NICB database to see if it was ever listed as stolen. There are tons of VIN check services out there that go beyond the standard Carfax. Border Patrol WILL stop you if you attempt to bring an unregistered vehicle across the border on a flatbed or dolly as it screams suspicious. The US is serious about vehicle imports that don't meet FMVSS and EPA regulations. (see Motorex and the Nissan Skyline, or anyone trying to import a Land Rover Defender) A German import with low miles could be a HOT car as well.

You are going to have to present  the paperwork you have (AZ title, previous registration, bill of sale) and they are going to run that VIN in NCIC to see if it comes up stolen.

[klvez]

Run the VIN thru the NICB database to see if it was ever listed as stolen. There are tons of VIN check services out there that go beyond the standard Carfax. Border Patrol WILL stop you if you attempt to bring an unregistered vehicle across the border on a flatbed or dolly as it screams suspicious. The US is serious about vehicle imports that don't meet FMVSS and EPA regulations. (see Motorex and the Nissan Skyline, or anyone trying to import a Land Rover Defender) A German import with low miles could be a HOT car as well.

You are going to have to present  the paperwork you have (AZ title, previous registration, bill of sale) and they are going to run that VIN in NCIC to see if it comes up stolen.

My two cents' worth.  Was mentioned further upthread that the car could be stolen.  You said you have title.  Just wanted to say that some dumbasses are stupid enough to keep the title in their glove compartment.  Forgery is easy.  Your mileage may vary.  Good luck.  Keep us posted with your journey.

Read my signature line very carefully.

I ran the vin prior to buying it and there was nothing suspicious about the info. everything matched and it is not stolen which is a big plus

[kphoger]

Probably would have been good to find out all this info before actually buying the car...