Sequels you dislike compared to the origi

[vdeane]

As a general rule, any sequel that wasn't part of a designed trilogy (or similar) is trash compared to the original.  There are exceptions like Wrath of Khan or Terminator 2, but the vast majority of the time, the sequel will suck.

The reason is simple; sequels are blatant cash grabs by studios trying to bleed an idea dry.  They're rehashing the same story as the original, or using lamer bad guys.  Or worst of all, they undo the ending of the original so they can have the same character do the same things again.  Comedy sequels are big offenders of this.
"We want Austin Powers to creep on women again in this one, so let's get rid of the chick he married in the first one.  Because being a horny sleaze ball is funny, but not if he's cheating on his wife." -big studio

Some franchises manage to find a little mojo with a third movie that was lost in a second movie.  Usually by pairing the hero with another strong character.  Like Indiana Jones.  Last Crusade was way better than Temple of Doom because of Sean Connery.  Or Die Hard.  First movie: great; all time classic.  Second movie: meh; too much the result of thinking "how about Die Hard, but in an airport?"  Then the third one comes along and pairs John McClain with Samuel L. Jackson and its a much better movie.  Not as good as the first one, of course, but very watchable.

The worst thing is the nostalgia sequels.  It's been 10+ years since the original and someone gets it in their head that we need to check in on Harry and Lloyd or Bill and Ted and that is always going to suck.  Let's pull John McClain out of retirement and stick him in a fighter jet with that kid who did those Apple commercials and convince ourselves it won't suck.

That's a good point, and brings up another issue with Star Trek: Into Darkness that caused me to not like the movie - it basically rehashed the same formula, down to Kirk getting in trouble early on but getting in command anyways because something happens to the people above him, having a scene where characters don space suits for a high-speed, high-stakes flight and also the pointless action sequence to save the Enterprise from something with gravity after the plot is resolved.  Beyond deviated from that, mainly because it had a different writing team and JJ Abrams had moved on to Star Wars.

Something similar happens with National Treasure 2, which even went so far to split up the main couple just so they could repeat their arc from the first movie.  Although at least we got to meet the main character's mom (although that may be a retcon) and we got a cool car chase with the backup camera.

The original Star Trek movies, the even-numbered ones were better than the odds, with V particularly awful. But II was a classic, while the first one I found forgettable. III was also pretty good.

Probably because the main thrust of Star Trek: The Motion Picture was "check out this sweet new Enterprise model we got". I swear, the scene where they were booting up the ship and pulling out of Spacedock took at least 20 minutes because of all of the establishing shots of the ship model. (To be fair, it was a cool-looking model.) I think they got enough footage from that, they didn't even need to shoot any exterior solo shots of the ship for the next two movies. (And then I think they got to reuse some of them for V and VI as long as they didn't show the registry number.)

Star Trek I, of course, inspired us to rename the original forum admin, Cody (username: voyager), to V'Ger when he was no longer welcome on the forum.

That scene was so long it got parodied in Lower Decks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTTXy4y1jn4

[texaskdog]

Wouldn't a more limiting topic be sequels that are BETTER than the original?

[Scott5114]

The original Star Trek movies, the even-numbered ones were better than the odds, with V particularly awful. But II was a classic, while the first one I found forgettable. III was also pretty good.

Probably because the main thrust of Star Trek: The Motion Picture was "check out this sweet new Enterprise model we got". I swear, the scene where they were booting up the ship and pulling out of Spacedock took at least 20 minutes because of all of the establishing shots of the ship model. (To be fair, it was a cool-looking model.) I think they got enough footage from that, they didn't even need to shoot any exterior solo shots of the ship for the next two movies. (And then I think they got to reuse some of them for V and VI as long as they didn't show the registry number.)

Star Trek I, of course, inspired us to rename the original forum admin, Cody (username: voyager), to V'Ger when he was no longer welcome on the forum.

I was reading someone's retrospective on seeing it in theaters when it came out. He made a point it was the first time in 10 years anyone had seen the Enterprise at that time, so to him the extra porn and pomp on that scene made sense.

I mean, I'm not saying it was bad, necessarily. The twelve-year-old Trek geek that I was when I watched it for the first time loved it, and the music score was perfect. But in retrospect, I don't even really remember the plot of the movie, just how long that scene was.

[Scott5114]

The sequels being worse than the original is the rule.  We could have a much shorter thread writing about sequels that are better than the original. 

Wouldn't a more limiting topic be sequels that are BETTER than the original?

Which one of these posts is better, the original or the sequel?

[roadman65]

The sequels being worse than the original is the rule.  We could have a much shorter thread writing about sequels that are better than the original. 

Wouldn't a more limiting topic be sequels that are BETTER than the original?

Which one of these posts is better, the original or the sequel?

I thought about that next. Asking which ones are great, but we have our own opinions of which specific ones that we like less or dislike more.  I thought it would be good to discuss and so far I see it has.

[kkt]

Wouldn't a more limiting topic be sequels that are BETTER than the original?

What a good idea.  Thanks for mentioning it.

[kevinb1994]

Homestuck^2. The original though...let me tell you about it

I did enjoy the Epilogues, which are pretty much their own thing. Would've been included in the original story at first, but then stuff kept happening.

[ET21]

Any of the Michael Bay Transformers after the first one, especially Revenge of the Fallen and The Last Knight

[Max Rockatansky]

Any of the Michael Bay Transformers after the first one, especially Revenge of the Fallen and The Last Knight

Bumble Bee was by far the best of the current Transformers movies.  I would attribute that completely to Michael Bay not being the director. 

[triplemultiplex]

Someone needs to teach Michael Bay how tall buildings fall down.

[Max Rockatansky]

Someone needs to teach Michael Bay how tall buildings fall down.

Someone needed to tell Michael Bay he was carried by the cheesiness of Nicolas Cage.

[Brandon]

Someone needs to teach Michael Bay how tall buildings fall down.

Someone also needs to tell Michael Bay the real story of Pearl Harbor and the Doolittle Raid.  Forget bad sequels, this was bad, period.

[Revive 755]

I don't know why Star Wars gets away with that.  Jedi had to copy the same ending as the original.  Can't ever write some original scripts.

But Return of the Jedi has more going on than just the assault on the Death Star - it also has the ground battle and the battles between Luke, Vader and the Emperor.  The original only had the assault on the first Death Star.

[hbelkins]

It's been awhile since I've seen the "Star Trek" movies, but I remember being bored and a little let down by the first one, especially since I had been such a fan of the television series. And I never really understood why Khan was the villain brought back for the second movie, as I never really was a huge fan of the "Space Seed" episode where he first appeared. I almost would have preferred a return of tribbles.

Some of the "Dirty Harry" movies were as good as or better than the original, I thought; but again, it's been years since I have seen any of them.

[Scott5114]

I saw The Wrath of Khan before I saw "Space Seed" and I remember thinking "Space Seed" was pretty lame compared to the movie. (Then again, pretty much all of the original series is kind of lame, although it's lame in the most fun way possible.)

[kkt]

I don't know why Star Wars gets away with that.  Jedi had to copy the same ending as the original.  Can't ever write some original scripts.

But Return of the Jedi has more going on than just the assault on the Death Star - it also has the ground battle and the battles between Luke, Vader and the Emperor.  The original only had the assault on the first Death Star.

Original had the chase through the Death Star, to get the tractor beam turned off, and the jailbreak and the garbage compactor!  And the scenes on Tantoine.  I thought I got my money's worth.

[Max Rockatansky]

I saw The Wrath of Khan before I saw "Space Seed" and I remember thinking "Space Seed" was pretty lame compared to the movie. (Then again, pretty much all of the original series is kind of lame, although it's lame in the most fun way possible.)

Most of the original Star Trek series is a huge drop in quality compared to any of the movies.  1960s TV in general hasn't aged well at all and feels as primitive as it really was through modern eyes. 

[kkt]

I saw The Wrath of Khan before I saw "Space Seed" and I remember thinking "Space Seed" was pretty lame compared to the movie. (Then again, pretty much all of the original series is kind of lame, although it's lame in the most fun way possible.)

Most of the original Star Trek series is a huge drop in quality compared to any of the movies.  1960s TV in general hasn't aged well at all and feels as primitive as it really was through modern eyes. 

The cringeworthy moments to me are mostly the treatment of women.  A lot of the time, though, I'm impressed by how well they did with a shoestring budget, just by having some good ideas and good actors.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

It's been awhile since I've seen the "Star Trek" movies, but I remember being bored and a little let down by the first one, especially since I had been such a fan of the television series. And I never really understood why Khan was the villain brought back for the second movie, as I never really was a huge fan of the "Space Seed" episode where he first appeared. I almost would have preferred a return of tribbles.

After the first movie was successful at the box office but had also cost (for the time) an enormous amount of money to make which Paramount saw as a pyrrhic victory, Gene Roddenberry was kicked upstairs. One of the new creative heads brought in for the sequel watched all the TOS episodes and felt Khan was the perfect villain. If you think about it though, he's really the only "name" villain associated with the entire franchise. The bad guys of the week were usually identified by races, not names and faces. DS9 brought back three TOS Klingon villains of the week (I believe they killed off two, then kept the third one for a few recurring appearances before offing him as well), but only hardcore fans of the franchise would get those references.

Some guys tried making a feature length fan film about Garth of Izar ("Whom Gods Destroy") which got Paramount's attention in a very bad way, and led to their heavy crackdown on Trek fan media.

[ET21]

Any of the Michael Bay Transformers after the first one, especially Revenge of the Fallen and The Last Knight

Bumble Bee was by far the best of the current Transformers movies.  I would attribute that completely to Michael Bay not being the director.

The Transformer designs were overall nice, I liked them. To bad we paid more attention to the human story and the horrid dialogue

[texaskdog]

I don't know why Star Wars gets away with that.  Jedi had to copy the same ending as the original.  Can't ever write some original scripts.

But Return of the Jedi has more going on than just the assault on the Death Star - it also has the ground battle and the battles between Luke, Vader and the Emperor.  The original only had the assault on the first Death Star.

And the Empire is defeated by teddy bears

[OCGuy81]

I don't know why Star Wars gets away with that.  Jedi had to copy the same ending as the original.  Can't ever write some original scripts.

But Return of the Jedi has more going on than just the assault on the Death Star - it also has the ground battle and the battles between Luke, Vader and the Emperor.  The original only had the assault on the first Death Star.

And the Empire is defeated by teddy bears

Yeah that was cheesy. The Ewoks were obviously for the younger audience, but that said I'd take the Ewoks over Jar-Jar any day! 🤢

[Max Rockatansky]

I saw The Wrath of Khan before I saw "Space Seed" and I remember thinking "Space Seed" was pretty lame compared to the movie. (Then again, pretty much all of the original series is kind of lame, although it's lame in the most fun way possible.)

Most of the original Star Trek series is a huge drop in quality compared to any of the movies.  1960s TV in general hasn't aged well at all and feels as primitive as it really was through modern eyes. 

The cringeworthy moments to me are mostly the treatment of women.  A lot of the time, though, I'm impressed by how well they did with a shoestring budget, just by having some good ideas and good actors.

The Gorn fight is something that highly amuses me to this very day.  I don't know how they could have filmed that scene without repeatedly laughing. 

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't know why Star Wars gets away with that.  Jedi had to copy the same ending as the original.  Can't ever write some original scripts.

But Return of the Jedi has more going on than just the assault on the Death Star - it also has the ground battle and the battles between Luke, Vader and the Emperor.  The original only had the assault on the first Death Star.

And the Empire is defeated by teddy bears

Yeah that was cheesy. The Ewoks were obviously for the younger audience, but that said I'd take the Ewoks over Jar-Jar any day! 🤢

I subscribe for eh Darth Jar Jar theory and his Drunken Master style of using the dark side.   BTW the Ewoks might look cute but they probably ate their Storm Trooper victims. 

[kphoger]

The Ewok are awesome.  Cuddly forest creatures who can launch a successful attack against the enemy.  Our youngest dressed as an Ewok one or two Halloweens ago, and we still use the costume for daycare dress-up.

Jar Jar was fine in the first movie, but not after that.