America the Mostly Beautiful

[cpzilliacus]

NewGeography.com: America the Mostly Beautiful

In the fall of 2010, as part of a book project, ex-newspaperman Bill Steigerwald retraced the route John Steinbeck took in 1960 and turned into his classic "Travels With Charley."  Steigerwald drove 11,276 miles in 43 days from Long Island to the top of Maine to Seattle to San Francisco to New Orleans before heading back to his home in Pittsburgh.  In "Dogging Steinbeck,"  his new e-book about how he discovered "Charley"  was not nonfiction but a highly fictionalized and dishonest account of Steinbeck's real trip, Steigerwald describes the America he saw.

[NE2]

As for the stereotypical complaints about America being despoiled by overpopulation, overdevelopment and commercial homogenization, forget it. Anyone who drives 50 miles in any direction in an empty state like Maine or North Dakota — or even in north-central Ohio or Upstate New York — can see America's problem is not overpopulation. More often it's under-population. Cities like Butte and Buffalo and Gary have been virtually abandoned. Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Dumb growth industry propaganda.

[kphoger]

Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Hmmmm....  Wonder if there's a reason for that....

[Brandon]

As for the stereotypical complaints about America being despoiled by overpopulation, overdevelopment and commercial homogenization, forget it. Anyone who drives 50 miles in any direction in an empty state like Maine or North Dakota — or even in north-central Ohio or Upstate New York — can see America's problem is not overpopulation. More often it's under-population. Cities like Butte and Buffalo and Gary have been virtually abandoned. Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Dumb growth industry propaganda.

Compare and contrast the US (and North America for that matter) with Europe and far east Asia.  There really is a lack of density when compared with those two.  The US, minus Alaska and Hawai'i, has a population of 312,881,238 in an area of 3,119,902 square miles.  Europe, including Scandinavia, European Russia, and the British Isles, has a population of 739,165,030 in an area of 3,930,000 square miles.  Effectively, Europe has twice the density.  Thus, yes, by that standard, the US is underpopulated.  When you then look at where the density is concentrated, mostly in the Northeast, the rest of the country can seem very underpopulated by comparison.

[Duke87]

Looking at density on just that large scale misses a key part of the picture, though: most of Europe's population is in cities and small (in terms of land area) towns. Suburban sprawl does not exist there to nearly the degree it does here.

A test for this: start in the center of downtown, draw a straight line and measure approximately how far you have to go before you get to the closest area dominated by farmland (or forest, desert, etc. - but open water doesn't count)

Compare the three largest metro areas in the US:
New York: 50 miles (NW)
Los Angeles: 15 miles (N, but it's much further to the south or east)
Chicago: 30 miles (S)

With those in Europe:
London: 20 miles (S)
Paris: 15 miles (W)
Madrid: 10 miles (N)

And you start to see the issue here... the US isn't overpopulated, but we are using a lot of land inefficiently compared to Europe.

[kphoger]

Interestingly, the conclusion my mind then draws is that using land more "efficiently" would mean consolidating the population into smaller urban areas, which would then create more unsettled huge hunks of America.

[agentsteel53]

Interestingly, the conclusion my mind then draws is that using land more "efficiently" would mean consolidating the population into smaller urban areas, which would then create more unsettled huge hunks of America.

anything's better than suburban blight.

[brad2971]

Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Hmmmm....  Wonder if there's a reason for that....

A native of ANY Great Plains state should know better than to make such a statement. After all, there were good faith (such as it was) efforts to settle the Great Plains between the 100th Meridian and the Rockies. The Dust Bowl was but one example of why most of it was not suited for heavy farming/settlement.

[brad2971]

As for the stereotypical complaints about America being despoiled by overpopulation, overdevelopment and commercial homogenization, forget it. Anyone who drives 50 miles in any direction in an empty state like Maine or North Dakota – or even in north-central Ohio or Upstate New York – can see America's problem is not overpopulation. More often it's under-population. Cities like Butte and Buffalo and Gary have been virtually abandoned. Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Dumb growth industry propaganda.

I would submit to you that there would be something seriously wrong with America if a place like Butte, MT, were to ever get "gentrified." Abandonment in small doses (Butte certainly qualifies, and so probably does Gary, IN) is quite OK. Comforting, in fact; it's a sign that the world can get along just fine without your little center of the universe.

[cpzilliacus]

anything's better than suburban blight.

That's not suburban blight - that's blight created by two state government agencies kow-towing to private owners of real estate in the middle of nowhere.

[jwolfer]

Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Hmmmm....  Wonder if there's a reason for that....

A native of ANY Great Plains state should know better than to make such a statement. After all, there were good faith (such as it was) efforts to settle the Great Plains between the 100th Meridian and the Rockies. The Dust Bowl was but one example of why most of it was not suited for heavy farming/settlement.

The places in my mind that should not be large cities are Las Vegas and Phoenix.  Not enough water to support the population

[brad2971]

Huge hunks of America on both sides of the Mississippi have never been settled.

Hmmmm....  Wonder if there's a reason for that....

A native of ANY Great Plains state should know better than to make such a statement. After all, there were good faith (such as it was) efforts to settle the Great Plains between the 100th Meridian and the Rockies. The Dust Bowl was but one example of why most of it was not suited for heavy farming/settlement.

The places in my mind that should not be large cities are Las Vegas and Phoenix.  Not enough water to support the population

The issues with settlement of most of the Great Plains aren't totally around water. Back in the 1920s, a wet period enticed hundreds of thousands of settlers to farm areas of western Kansas/Nebraska/Oklahoma and eastern Colorado/New Mexico. Those settlers plowed that ground from fenceline-to-fenceline, not knowing that the grass that was built up over thousands of years kept that ground from blowing around like a sand dune. They painfully found out that hard lesson during the mid-1930s.

Speaking of Phoenix, it should be noted that even with its explosive population growth, 68% of water usage in Arizona is for agricultural purposes.

[Scott5114]

Las Vegas only exists because, at the time, every other state had overly-restricted blue laws against gambling. Had they been laxer in the other states, there would have been no real reason for Las Vegas to have turned into what it did.

[allniter89]

Interestingly, the conclusion my mind then draws is that using land more "efficiently" would mean consolidating the population into smaller urban areas, which would then create more unsettled huge hunks of America.

anything's better than suburban blight.

WOW, I'd never seen that view of Breezewood, that is UGLY!

[Brandon]

Las Vegas only exists because, at the time, every other state had overly-restricted blue laws against gambling. Had they been laxer in the other states, there would have been no real reason for Las Vegas to have turned into what it did.

That's part of it, but the other part is that a rather large dam was built not too terribly far away and the owner of the dam did not want gambling (or other vices) in their model city for the workers near their dam.  Hence, the workers went inland to a dusty town that provided sex, drink, and gaming - Las Vegas, from their model town - Boulder City.

Factor in that what was legal in Nevada was illegal elsewhere making certain folks legitimate who otherwise were crooks back home, and you have the makings of a metropolis where none might otherwise be.  Thank Bugsy Siegel the next time you go to Vegas for a trip.

[Scott5114]

I'm sure Boulder City's blue laws helped the situation, but it wouldn't have turned into the destination that it was if every state had its own Las Vegas.

[berberry]

I'm sure Boulder City's blue laws helped the situation, but it wouldn't have turned into the destination that it was if every state had its own Las Vegas.

Both those things together with a few other factors amounted to maybe about half of everything that came together just right for the creation of Vegas. The other half of everything was Bugsy Malone.  Without him, probably something much different would have happened, if anything at all.

[Stephane Dumas]

The issues with settlement of most of the Great Plains aren't totally around water. Back in the 1920s, a wet period enticed hundreds of thousands of settlers to farm areas of western Kansas/Nebraska/Oklahoma and eastern Colorado/New Mexico. Those settlers plowed that ground from fenceline-to-fenceline, not knowing that the grass that was built up over thousands of years kept that ground from blowing around like a sand dune. They painfully found out that hard lesson during the mid-1930s.

I spotted on Youtube this vintage video of a big aborted project of diverting various rivers to irrigate that part titled the NAWAPA (North American Water and Power Alliance). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Water_and_Power_Alliance   Former Quebec premier Robert Bourassa once suggested the idea of a "Grand Canal" linking James Bay to the Great Lakes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Recycling_and_Northern_Development_Canal

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

I'm sure Boulder City's blue laws helped the situation, but it wouldn't have turned into the destination that it was if every state had its own Las Vegas.

Covington, Kentucky; Atlantic City, and even Memphis and New Orleans are going, "Huh?" at your suggestion.

[Scott5114]

I'm sure Boulder City's blue laws helped the situation, but it wouldn't have turned into the destination that it was if every state had its own Las Vegas.

Covington, Kentucky; Atlantic City, and even Memphis and New Orleans are going, "Huh?" at your suggestion.

With the possible exception of Atlantic City, I want to say gaming was brought to all of these places following Las Vegas's example. Yes, just about every state has gambling now, either legitimately or through tribal gaming, but Las Vegas still dominates because it was built into the gaming mecca that it is now during the period where you couldn't have set something like that up any other place.

[Alps]

I'm sure Boulder City's blue laws helped the situation, but it wouldn't have turned into the destination that it was if every state had its own Las Vegas.

Covington, Kentucky; Atlantic City, and even Memphis and New Orleans are going, "Huh?" at your suggestion.

With the possible exception of Atlantic City, I want to say gaming was brought to all of these places following Las Vegas's example. Yes, just about every state has gambling now, either legitimately or through tribal gaming, but Las Vegas still dominates because it was built into the gaming mecca that it is now during the period where you couldn't have set something like that up any other place.

I wonder how Las Vegas has done with the "Indian casinos" popping up everywhere. So many people around here go to their local casino, whether in CT, Yonkers, PA, upstate NY, etc., on and on. I know Atlantic City has struggled to hold itself afloat.

[Brandon]

I'm sure Boulder City's blue laws helped the situation, but it wouldn't have turned into the destination that it was if every state had its own Las Vegas.

Covington, Kentucky; Atlantic City, and even Memphis and New Orleans are going, "Huh?" at your suggestion.

With the possible exception of Atlantic City, I want to say gaming was brought to all of these places following Las Vegas's example. Yes, just about every state has gambling now, either legitimately or through tribal gaming, but Las Vegas still dominates because it was built into the gaming mecca that it is now during the period where you couldn't have set something like that up any other place.

Legal gaming was brought to these following the example of Las Vegas, but they, especially New Orleans, have a very long history of illegal gaming, even if it was out in the open as in New Orleans.  Shoot, even Chicago has a very long history of vice that predates Vegas - speakeasies, anyone?

[hbelkins]

Covington, Kentucky; Atlantic City, and even Memphis and New Orleans are going, "Huh?" at your suggestion.

It was more Newport than Covington, and gambling there was never legal. It was very much an underground operation.

[Duke87]

I wonder how Las Vegas has done with the "Indian casinos" popping up everywhere. So many people around here go to their local casino, whether in CT, Yonkers, PA, upstate NY, etc., on and on. I know Atlantic City has struggled to hold itself afloat.

The thing is, Las Vegas has a reputation for more than just gambling, in a way that no other place quite does. People go to Las Vegas from all over because it's Las Vegas. Atlantic City, meanwhile, has mostly regional appeal and naturally suffers from having more local competition.

[hbelkins]

I wonder how Las Vegas has done with the "Indian casinos" popping up everywhere. So many people around here go to their local casino, whether in CT, Yonkers, PA, upstate NY, etc., on and on. I know Atlantic City has struggled to hold itself afloat.

The thing is, Las Vegas has a reputation for more than just gambling, in a way that no other place quite does. People go to Las Vegas from all over because it's Las Vegas. Atlantic City, meanwhile, has mostly regional appeal and naturally suffers from having more local competition.

It's been about 20 years since I've been to either place, but the main advantage Vegas had over AC is the prices.

Vegas casinos had ungodly cheap prices for hotel rooms and food. I don't know what the going rate is today, but back then they were dirt cheap. AC, on the other hand, was outrageously expensive.