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Weirdest Quirks of Your State DOT?

Started by i-215, January 17, 2019, 10:22:27 PM

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1995hoo

Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2019, 07:22:41 AM
Quote from: J N Winkler on January 31, 2019, 12:04:04 AM
I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

The mistake isn't grammatical. The mistake is calling the speed limit just "speed"; if nobody actually slows down, speed is not reduced ahead.

Exactly. I view it as grammatical because the sign should be an imperative with the reason understood. I'll show my age here–it's sort of like "you understood"  when you diagram a sentence. "Reduce Speed Ahead"  tells you to slow down with the unstated, but understood, reason being "because the speed limit is about to decrease."  (Of course "you understood"  applies here too because of the imperative.)

"Reduced Speed Ahead"  depends on driver compliance with the speed limit sign, which is often the exception rather than the rule!
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


PHLBOS

Quote from: Brandon on January 24, 2019, 11:50:18 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on January 24, 2019, 11:47:12 AM
Traffic circles are another NJ specific thing, though they're slowly going away. A recent change is over-sized two-sided mile markers with a direction and route shield, every 0.2 miles on freeways and 0.5 miles on non-freeway state and US routes. These may exist elsewhere, but I have only seen them in NJ so far.

Traffic circles (not modern roundabouts) exist in other places than New Jersey.  Massachusetts comes to mind.
Massachusetts refers to those as rotaries... although some of them have recently been restriped to resemble roundabouts.

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on January 28, 2019, 10:08:52 PMAt least MassDOT uses those weird light-up flashing yellow ball signs.
PennDOT uses such as well.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

vdeane

Quote from: tdindy88 on January 30, 2019, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 30, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Michigan refers to their downtowns along freeways in the same fashion.

Here's a view of such a sign along I-75 near Detroit. https://goo.gl/maps/5NEwur9Fowj
Québec is similar, though they say centre-ville.
http://nysroads.com/photos.php?route=a40&state=QC&file=101_0549.JPG
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

hbelkins

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 30, 2019, 07:01:55 PM
Couple of things I've noted in North Carolina over the years:

(1) The odd wording of the various "state law" signs at the state lines that admonish people to "burn headlights" (referring to driving in the rain and riding a motorcycle in general). I've seen plenty of signs about using headlights in the rain, but only North Carolina posts signs saying to "burn headlights."

(2) I like this one: North Carolina words their signs as "Reduce Speed Ahead" instead of the grammatically-incorrect "Reduced Speed Ahead." The latter is incorrect because it's the speed limit that is reduced and you are telling the driver to reduce his speed. (These signs are starting to disappear in favor of the new and better signs that tell you what the reduced limit will be.) I've only seen "Reduce Speed Ahead" in one place outside North Carolina–the westbound Dulles Toll Road in Virginia as you approach the main toll plaza in Tysons. I always wondered why VDOT used the different wording in that one spot.

(3) North Carolina's BGSs often use the word "DOWNTOWN" in all caps underneath a city's name. I can't say as I've seen this style in most other states; more typically, I've just seen "Downtown [city name]."

Agree with "burn headllights." Something else NC does is sign advance speed limit reductions as "Begin 35 1000 Feet Ahead."


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 31, 2019, 08:33:20 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 31, 2019, 07:22:41 AM

Quote from: J N Winkler on January 31, 2019, 12:04:04 AM
I don't view "Reduced Speed Ahead" as grammatically incorrect.  It is stating a fact, and the black-on-white rectangular format is used for informatory as well as regulatory sign messages.  "Reduce Speed Ahead" is an imperative message.

The mistake isn't grammatical. The mistake is calling the speed limit just "speed"; if nobody actually slows down, speed is not reduced ahead.

Exactly. I view it as grammatical because the sign should be an imperative with the reason understood. I'll show my age here–it's sort of like "you understood"  when you diagram a sentence. "Reduce Speed Ahead"  tells you to slow down with the unstated, but understood, reason being "because the speed limit is about to decrease."  (Of course "you understood"  applies here too because of the imperative.)

"Reduced Speed Ahead"  depends on driver compliance with the speed limit sign, which is often the exception rather than the rule!

Oregon.

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

^^^^

I've never been to Oregon, but to me that sign seems to be prescribing your speed–you shall go 35, no more and no less.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

thenetwork

COLORADO:

Multiplexes are rarely signed or even acknowledged.

US routes which parallel Interstates are  signed sporadically and can start or stop without any notice.

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

kphoger

Quote from: thenetwork on January 31, 2019, 03:07:03 PM
COLORADO:

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

Where?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

swhuck

#158
Quote from: jakeroot on January 21, 2019, 09:46:27 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 21, 2019, 09:35:15 PM
Quote from: swhuck on January 21, 2019, 05:22:57 PM
Texas:
I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

They're rare, but they're out there.

Some that came to mind...

Abilene:  US-277 @ US-84 West
Denton:  I-35W @ FM-2449
Decatur:  US-287 @ US-380
Lubbock:  Loop-289 (via frontage roads) @ US-84

One that I recall is a rather impressive B4-style parclo along US-75 @ Northwest Hwy (Loop 12) in Dallas, complete with through ramps for the frontage road: http://bit.ly/2sH1eFf

I normally don't like Texas-style freeways, but they did a great job with this interchange and the nearby ones, complete with excellent signal placement too. Perhaps the least Texas-y interchange in the state!

/bonks self

I should have known this one; I drive through it every day. The way the frontage roads in the area work is quite complex, but the parclo is indeed a parclo. I guess all the frontage roads confused me when I considered the style of the interchange. That said, US75 between I-635 and downtown is an excellently designed freeway in many respects, in direct contrast to some of the stuff left over from when they thought left hand exits were cool. Northbound I-35E to Westbound I-635, anyone? /gag

Another one for Texas -- city limits signs both when entering and leaving the city.
Clinched: I-2, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19, 20, 22, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 35, 37, 39, 40, 43, 44, 45, 55, 59, 65, 66, 68, 70, 71, 72, 76 (both), 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84 (W), 85, 86 (W), 88 (W), 93, 94, 96, 97
US50, 101, 175, 199, 290, 380, 491/666
Clinched for now: I-11, 14, 49, 57

swhuck

A number of years back I lived in Pennsylvania for a while, and I'm curious whether these quirks are still around.

Stop signs on freeway onramps (usually rural). I've seen yield signs on onramps elsewhere, but never stop signs.
Many multiple lane roads with poor to absent lane markings
Stop signs marked as "Except right turns" or something similar depending on the intersection.

Of course, the Schuylkill Expressway could probably qualify as a quirk in its own right. :)
Clinched: I-2, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19, 20, 22, 24, 25, 27, 29, 30, 35, 37, 39, 40, 43, 44, 45, 55, 59, 65, 66, 68, 70, 71, 72, 76 (both), 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84 (W), 85, 86 (W), 88 (W), 93, 94, 96, 97
US50, 101, 175, 199, 290, 380, 491/666
Clinched for now: I-11, 14, 49, 57

skluth

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 31, 2019, 03:05:58 PM
^^^^

I've never been to Oregon, but to me that sign seems to be prescribing your speed–you shall go 35, no more and no less.

That reminded me of this.

'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once at the number three, being the third number be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.'

Ian

I've noticed that some road signage/traffic signal quirks aren't limited to just one single state, but several states close together in a region. This can be attributed to regional weather patterns, contractors supplying the same products to multiple states, or may be surrounding states simply copying off each other for lack of originality. Some examples...

  • New England states and their odd signal combo with yellow bodies/visors and black doors. I've primarily seen it done in Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, but I've seen it bleed into the rest of the region.
  • The U-shaped "field goal" route shield assemblies. Commonly found in Texas, but I noticed plenty of examples in Utah.
  • California and Arizona's usage of curved mast-arm signal assemblies.
  • Signal hardware in general in many states on the West Coast. Overhead signals will be mounted on plumbizers attached to the mast-arm (usually wedged between the red and yellow sections). Side-mounted, standalone non-overhead, and pedestrian signals are normally attached to their poles via piping connecting to terminal blocks for ease of access. In addition, many signals in the Southwest use "full-circle" visors, which encompass the entirety of each section's lens rather than partially.
  • This style of cantilever and full-width overhead sign structure seen in California, Arizona, and Nevada.
  • The custom LANE ENDS sign with angled downward pointing arrows that was originally found in Maryland, but can now be seen in Delaware and Virginia.
  • The strict use of inline-5 "tower signals" in lieu of the traditional doghouse within many Midwest states (Illinois and Iowa, to name a few).
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
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ipeters61

Quote from: swhuck on January 31, 2019, 06:19:04 PM
A number of years back I lived in Pennsylvania for a while, and I'm curious whether these quirks are still around.

Stop signs on freeway onramps (usually rural). I've seen yield signs on onramps elsewhere, but never stop signs.
Many multiple lane roads with poor to absent lane markings
Stop signs marked as "Except right turns" or something similar depending on the intersection.

Of course, the Schuylkill Expressway could probably qualify as a quirk in its own right. :)
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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froggie

^ EB on-ramp at I-78/Exit 35 used to have one...not sure if it still does.

Pretty sure I recall a few along I-70 between Washington and New Stanton from years ago...but I think those have been taken out by reconstruction projects that improved the on-ramps.

Big John

^^ Not rural, but the Squirrel Hill interchange in Pittsburgh has a stop sign.

US 89

Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:44:19 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 31, 2019, 03:07:03 PM
COLORADO:

US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

Where?

US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.

Mapmikey

Quote from: froggie on January 31, 2019, 07:40:57 PM
^ EB on-ramp at I-78/Exit 35 used to have one...not sure if it still does.

Pretty sure I recall a few along I-70 between Washington and New Stanton from years ago...but I think those have been taken out by reconstruction projects that improved the on-ramps.

At least one was still there as of July - I-70 at PA 51: https://goo.gl/maps/8hLfAyUDim22

DaBigE

    Quote from: Ian on January 31, 2019, 07:15:50 PM
    • The strict use of inline-5 "tower signals" in lieu of the traditional doghouse within many Midwest states (Illinois and Iowa, to name a few).

    I think that's the first time I've heard of a doghouse-style referred to as traditional. Granted, I've been surrounded by the inline-5 for the vast majority of my life, so my view has been a little skewed. Which came first, the doghouse or the inline-5? I always thought the doghouse came second, as an evolution of the inline-5 -- as a way to conserve vertical space.
    "We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

    The High Plains Traveler

    Quote from: US 89 on January 31, 2019, 07:58:38 PM
    Quote from: kphoger on January 31, 2019, 04:44:19 PM
    Quote from: thenetwork on January 31, 2019, 03:07:03 PM
    COLORADO:

    US routes which 'split' from Interstate routes, but there is no physical connection.

    Where?

    US 85 south of Colorado Springs, here: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.7763576,-104.7839736,17z

    Apparently the US 85 roadway north of that bridge was returned to the city, but it's still state-maintained to the southeast. US 85 was not rerouted in the process, so the officially designated 85 alignment jumps right from that bridge down to I-25.
    Also, U.S. 24 between Limon and the Kansas border. U.S. 24 is supposedly routed along I-70 east of Limon, but then appears on the I-70 north frontage road west of Seibert, starting at a county road with no interchange. It follows the old pre-interstate route to Burlington, and then angles northeast. However, at the east city limits, it ends. The road from there to the Kansas border is a state frontage road but not part of U.S. 24, and where it enters Kansas it is a county road until it reaches the Kanorado city limits, where it becomes a Kansas state highway that connects to I-70.
    "Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."

    jakeroot

    Quote from: swhuck on January 31, 2019, 06:08:46 PM
    Quote from: jakeroot on January 21, 2019, 09:46:27 PM
    Quote from: kphoger on January 21, 2019, 09:35:15 PM
    Quote from: swhuck on January 21, 2019, 05:22:57 PM
    Texas:
    I can't remember having seen a parclo in the entire state.

    They're rare, but they're out there.

    Some that came to mind...

    Abilene:  US-277 @ US-84 West
    Denton:  I-35W @ FM-2449
    Decatur:  US-287 @ US-380
    Lubbock:  Loop-289 (via frontage roads) @ US-84

    One that I recall is a rather impressive B4-style parclo along US-75 @ Northwest Hwy (Loop 12) in Dallas, complete with through ramps for the frontage road: http://bit.ly/2sH1eFf

    I normally don't like Texas-style freeways, but they did a great job with this interchange and the nearby ones, complete with excellent signal placement too. Perhaps the least Texas-y interchange in the state!

    /bonks self

    I should have known this one; I drive through it every day. The way the frontage roads in the area work is quite complex, but the parclo is indeed a parclo. I guess all the frontage roads confused me when I considered the style of the interchange. That said, US75 between I-635 and downtown is an excellently designed freeway in many respects, in direct contrast to some of the stuff left over from when they thought left hand exits were cool. Northbound I-35E to Westbound I-635, anyone? /gag

    I will say that, on satellite view, it sticks out quite a bit! It's a very urban freeway, with appropriately-tight urban interchanges as a result. The odd one out being that Parclo, which takes up a huge amount of room. Judging by historic aerials, Northwest Hwy must have been predicted to be a very important road, as the original cloverleaf at the interchange was the only free-flowing junction on the Central Expressway for about 10 or 15 years, until the interchange with the 635 ring road was built in the late 60s.

    silverback1065

    I absolutely HATE Caltrans signing practices.  They're an embarrassment.

    ipeters61

    Quote from: DaBigE on January 31, 2019, 11:43:20 PM
      Quote from: Ian on January 31, 2019, 07:15:50 PM
      • The strict use of inline-5 "tower signals" in lieu of the traditional doghouse within many Midwest states (Illinois and Iowa, to name a few).

      I think that's the first time I've heard of a doghouse-style referred to as traditional. Granted, I've been surrounded by the inline-5 for the vast majority of my life, so my view has been a little skewed. Which came first, the doghouse or the inline-5? I always thought the doghouse came second, as an evolution of the inline-5 -- as a way to conserve vertical space.
      I felt like Connecticut had a lot of inline-4 and inline-5 "tower signals."

      (inline-4) Pleasant Valley Road at US-5, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8194272,-72.609283,3a,41.1y,282.02h,89.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0Dnhri-9Bm5LMRBeZspCUA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

      (inline-4) I-291 EB/CT-30 at US-5, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8038682,-72.6158246,3a,75y,116.42h,87.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sk6cukai62nk0qPcczT3W1A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

      (inline-5) Sullivan Avenue at Pierce Road, South Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8381232,-72.5585589,3a,75y,335.53h,93.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEc9BbCgkot7oLK0Ulwn_Jw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

      (inline-4) US-44 at US-5, East Hartford: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7693939,-72.643923,3a,75y,130.3h,92.08t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1seDlBT7IdI4D1klDHyeDpkg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DeDlBT7IdI4D1klDHyeDpkg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D7.1674724%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

      (inline-4) CT-140 at CT-191, East Windsor: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9259079,-72.5446865,3a,75y,74.48h,86.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIOQvbYaU1PEzBXh1qYzVeg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

      (inline-5) CT-3 at CT-160, Rocky Hill: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6582088,-72.6782367,3a,75y,272.75h,84.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9yxql2RTs6toOHR18GJHjA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656[/list]
      Disclaimer: Opinions expressed on my posts on the AARoads Forum are my own and do not represent official positions of my employer.
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      Max Rockatansky

      Quote from: silverback1065 on February 01, 2019, 08:00:18 AM
      I absolutely HATE Caltrans signing practices.  They're an embarrassment.

      Which aspect of it?  Upkeep is abismal and varies wildly by district but on the flip side I there is some stuff that I would consider a plus like cut-out shields. 

      silverback1065

      Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2019, 08:24:49 AM
      Quote from: silverback1065 on February 01, 2019, 08:00:18 AM
      I absolutely HATE Caltrans signing practices.  They're an embarrassment.

      Which aspect of it?  Upkeep is abismal and varies wildly by district but on the flip side I there is some stuff that I would consider a plus like cut-out shields.

      Inconsistent sign placement, the sign could be in the median, the right side, a tiny sign on the right side, or behind a tree. 
      The inside exit number tab is stupid, it's supposed to be outside and above the main sign for a reason, to catch you eye!
      Exit numbers are spotty on signs to begin with
      The fact that button copy signs are still out there at all (I know they're great, but not on a modern road, they belong in a museum) remove ALL of them! they're unreadable at night!!!  :banghead:
      No mile markers on their interstates. 
      Terrible weaving segments. 
      At grade state highways are horribly signed, good luck following them. 

      Caltrans weird quirk is that they fuck up signage on a consistent basis.

      MNHighwayMan

      Quote from: silverback1065 on February 01, 2019, 08:33:55 AM
      The fact that button copy signs are still out there at all (I know they're great, but not on a modern road, they belong in a museum) remove ALL of them!

      Finally, someone else who agrees! :nod:



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