New Jersey

[J Route Z]

Did you notice the Naricon Place sign attached to the traffic light is incorrectly anchored on the Tower Center Blvd side (above Rt 18 NB)? It should be posted above SB.

[_Simon]

I also see they erected an APL on approach to this ramp

*puke* 

[jeffandnicole]

I also see they erected an APL on approach to this ramp

*puke* 

It's actually not a bad APL...except for what the did to the destinations in the left side! The TO seems off as well...although I can't put my finger on why.

[wanderer2575]

I also see they erected an APL on approach to this ramp

*puke* 

It's actually not a bad APL...except for what the did to the destinations in the left side! The TO seems off as well...although I can't put my finger on why.

Superscripting the cardinal directions and vertically centering the "TO" -- looks weird when both design standards come together on the same sign.  I've seen this in Michigan and some other states.

[Alps]

I also see they erected an APL on approach to this ramp

*puke* 

It's actually not a bad APL...except for what the did to the destinations in the left side! The TO seems off as well...although I can't put my finger on why.

Move down the road a frame. It's the stitching of street view, not the sign.

[J Route Z]

Finally! The Hillsborough Bypass by 2020: http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/traffic/commuting/2016/12/28/route-206-bypass-hillsborough-could-completed-2020/95885756/

[_Simon]

Finally! The Hillsborough Bypass by 2020: http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/traffic/commuting/2016/12/28/route-206-bypass-hillsborough-could-completed-2020/95885756/

That date disgusts me.  The fact that we can't figure out how to not take that long to finish building something that short makes me fear for the future of our infrastructure.  We built entire interstate highways in that type of time scale back in the 60s.  Yeah a lot has changed and things aren't as agile, and land is obviously harder to come by, but this is absolutely ridiculous when you look at how much on average NJ spends per mile of that road compared to anywhere else in the continent.  We should be doing studies into process improvement, like for example, maybe the cost of acquiring land wouldn't be astronomical if you didn't publish the exact whereabouts of a project half a decade before you intend on building it.  Maybe it wouldn't take 4 years to pave a few new miles of roadway if we didn't subcontact everything under the sun.  Maybe if njdot actually employed people that build highways instead of people that create corruption, dishonest bidding, and what can only be described as a complete disregard for getting the most out of taxpayers money, then we might be able to shave a few million off the cost and finish it in a timeline shorter than it took to construct the entire mainline of the turnpike.

SM-G930V

[jeffandnicole]

Finally! The Hillsborough Bypass by 2020: http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/traffic/commuting/2016/12/28/route-206-bypass-hillsborough-could-completed-2020/95885756/

That date disgusts me.  The fact that we can't figure out how to not take that long to finish building something that short makes me fear for the future of our infrastructure.  We built entire interstate highways in that type of time scale back in the 60s.  Yeah a lot has changed and things aren't as agile, and land is obviously harder to come by, but this is absolutely ridiculous when you look at how much on average NJ spends per mile of that road compared to anywhere else in the continent.  We should be doing studies into process improvement, like for example, maybe the cost of acquiring land wouldn't be astronomical if you didn't publish the exact whereabouts of a project half a decade before you intend on building it.  Maybe it wouldn't take 4 years to pave a few new miles of roadway if we didn't subcontact everything under the sun.  Maybe if njdot actually employed people that build highways instead of people that create corruption, dishonest bidding, and what can only be described as a complete disregard for getting the most out of taxpayers money, then we might be able to shave a few million off the cost and finish it in a timeline shorter than it took to construct the entire mainline of the turnpike.

SM-G930V

Why not throw in how long it took the Empire State Building to be built as well?

Being that your rant doesn't have much to do with this project, or probably no much truth in general, I do agree that they probably should've pushed to get this done at one shot rather than spreading it out over a decade or more.  Since there's Billions spent on infrastructure each year, this bypass is relatively small in nature.  I'm going to guess that there's something going behind the scenes on as to why NJDOT pushed this project back many years, when it was pretty much ready to go.  They could've just as easily pushed other projects back to have the funds available for this project.

As for not disclosing the whereabouts of a project years in advance, but sorry, this isn't Disney World.  Land acquisition is actually one of the last phases of the entire engineering and design process, just before final design and actual construction.  NJDOT can't secretly buy up land spending taxpayer money, which also takes parcels of land off the township tax roles.  You don't think that will escape unnoticed?

[jeffandnicole]

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/10/the_12_worst_kinds_of_new_jersey_drivers.html#0

A little humorous article about what New Jersey drivers hate about other drivers.

Remember...a *humorous* article.  While some pics are of NJ roads, the cartoon of motorists going clockwise around the circle is intentional.

[_Simon]

Finally! The Hillsborough Bypass by 2020: http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/traffic/commuting/2016/12/28/route-206-bypass-hillsborough-could-completed-2020/95885756/

That date disgusts me.  The fact that we can't figure out how to not take that long to finish building something that short makes me fear for the future of our infrastructure.  We built entire interstate highways in that type of time scale back in the 60s.  Yeah a lot has changed and things aren't as agile, and land is obviously harder to come by, but this is absolutely ridiculous when you look at how much on average NJ spends per mile of that road compared to anywhere else in the continent.  We should be doing studies into process improvement, like for example, maybe the cost of acquiring land wouldn't be astronomical if you didn't publish the exact whereabouts of a project half a decade before you intend on building it.  Maybe it wouldn't take 4 years to pave a few new miles of roadway if we didn't subcontact everything under the sun.  Maybe if njdot actually employed people that build highways instead of people that create corruption, dishonest bidding, and what can only be described as a complete disregard for getting the most out of taxpayers money, then we might be able to shave a few million off the cost and finish it in a timeline shorter than it took to construct the entire mainline of the turnpike.

SM-G930V

Why not throw in how long it took the Empire State Building to be built as well?

Being that your rant doesn't have much to do with this project, or probably no much truth in general, I do agree that they probably should've pushed to get this done at one shot rather than spreading it out over a decade or more.  Since there's Billions spent on infrastructure each year, this bypass is relatively small in nature.  I'm going to guess that there's something going behind the scenes on as to why NJDOT pushed this project back many years, when it was pretty much ready to go.  They could've just as easily pushed other projects back to have the funds available for this project.

As for not disclosing the whereabouts of a project years in advance, but sorry, this isn't Disney World.  Land acquisition is actually one of the last phases of the entire engineering and design process, just before final design and actual construction.  NJDOT can't secretly buy up land spending taxpayer money, which also takes parcels of land off the township tax roles.  You don't think that will escape unnoticed?

Njdot should take some clues from real estate developers.  I wouldn't mind talking about how I believe today's technology can overcome this problem by doing land aquisition in parallel with multiple living designs for the project that can change as teams of folks acquire the land under nda or in some less publicized manner.  Many of the things I foresee may not be possible until the DOT is privatized, but I totally see a way of doing things that's in the best interest of the tax payer.  There are also many types of monetization njdot could be doing to offset costs, like running dark fiber under long haul highways or integrating designs for underground utilities into the roads and then charging utility companies rent for access the vast network of under-road property that can be designed as multi tenant utility space.  Blue food-fuel-lodging signs would be VMSs that charged businesses ongoing money in exchange for the ability to update the sign dynamically (wouldn't you love a "BREAKFAST" banner below the McDonald's logo on exit signage when they only sell breakfast, or have gas stations disappear from the sign as they close?).

We don't need a miracle, we just need ideas the private sector. 

The reason I ranted at length about this project in particular is because of how small the remaining piece is, and how obvious it is where it must go.  If I had cash id be out buying up all the land I can that it looks like njdot might need just to make money on it.. I'm not sure why the whereabouts of a project can't be confidential for security, real estate cost, and "getting taxpayers the best deal" reasons until the land is committed.    I wouldn't mind an electronic crowdsourced version of the old Robert Moses approach where you're constantly re-working the highway from the ideal engineering design based on what land you're gotten/can get/cant get.  As each small section of land is locked in and purchased, the next sections of the highway can start construction, as long as there are a few sections still uncommitted in between that could be used to reroute the design given a roadblock.



SM-G930V

[storm2k]

Finally! The Hillsborough Bypass by 2020: http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/traffic/commuting/2016/12/28/route-206-bypass-hillsborough-could-completed-2020/95885756/

That date disgusts me.  The fact that we can't figure out how to not take that long to finish building something that short makes me fear for the future of our infrastructure.  We built entire interstate highways in that type of time scale back in the 60s.  Yeah a lot has changed and things aren't as agile, and land is obviously harder to come by, but this is absolutely ridiculous when you look at how much on average NJ spends per mile of that road compared to anywhere else in the continent.  We should be doing studies into process improvement, like for example, maybe the cost of acquiring land wouldn't be astronomical if you didn't publish the exact whereabouts of a project half a decade before you intend on building it.  Maybe it wouldn't take 4 years to pave a few new miles of roadway if we didn't subcontact everything under the sun.  Maybe if njdot actually employed people that build highways instead of people that create corruption, dishonest bidding, and what can only be described as a complete disregard for getting the most out of taxpayers money, then we might be able to shave a few million off the cost and finish it in a timeline shorter than it took to construct the entire mainline of the turnpike.

SM-G930V

Why not throw in how long it took the Empire State Building to be built as well?

Being that your rant doesn't have much to do with this project, or probably no much truth in general, I do agree that they probably should've pushed to get this done at one shot rather than spreading it out over a decade or more.  Since there's Billions spent on infrastructure each year, this bypass is relatively small in nature.  I'm going to guess that there's something going behind the scenes on as to why NJDOT pushed this project back many years, when it was pretty much ready to go.  They could've just as easily pushed other projects back to have the funds available for this project.

As for not disclosing the whereabouts of a project years in advance, but sorry, this isn't Disney World.  Land acquisition is actually one of the last phases of the entire engineering and design process, just before final design and actual construction.  NJDOT can't secretly buy up land spending taxpayer money, which also takes parcels of land off the township tax roles.  You don't think that will escape unnoticed?

Njdot should take some clues from real estate developers.  I wouldn't mind talking about how I believe today's technology can overcome this problem by doing land aquisition in parallel with multiple living designs for the project that can change as teams of folks acquire the land under nda or in some less publicized manner.  Many of the things I foresee may not be possible until the DOT is privatized, but I totally see a way of doing things that's in the best interest of the tax payer.  There are also many types of monetization njdot could be doing to offset costs, like running dark fiber under long haul highways or integrating designs for underground utilities into the roads and then charging utility companies rent for access the vast network of under-road property that can be designed as multi tenant utility space.  Blue food-fuel-lodging signs would be VMSs that charged businesses ongoing money in exchange for the ability to update the sign dynamically (wouldn't you love a "BREAKFAST" banner below the McDonald's logo on exit signage when they only sell breakfast, or have gas stations disappear from the sign as they close?).

We don't need a miracle, we just need ideas the private sector. 

The reason I ranted at length about this project in particular is because of how small the remaining piece is, and how obvious it is where it must go.  If I had cash id be out buying up all the land I can that it looks like njdot might need just to make money on it.. I'm not sure why the whereabouts of a project can't be confidential for security, real estate cost, and "getting taxpayers the best deal" reasons until the land is committed.    I wouldn't mind an electronic crowdsourced version of the old Robert Moses approach where you're constantly re-working the highway from the ideal engineering design based on what land you're gotten/can get/cant get.  As each small section of land is locked in and purchased, the next sections of the highway can start construction, as long as there are a few sections still uncommitted in between that could be used to reroute the design given a roadblock.



SM-G930V

Given how well we're seeing other privatized roads working out in other parts of the country (Indiana Toll Road comes to mind, as well as some of the private toll roads in Texas, or the ICC in Maryland), privatizing NJDOT would be one of the absolute worst ideas I've ever heard of.

[jeffandnicole]

Right. And if a private company bought NJDOT, how would they make money?

[dgolub]

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2016/10/the_12_worst_kinds_of_new_jersey_drivers.html#0

A little humorous article about what New Jersey drivers hate about other drivers.

Remember...a *humorous* article.  While some pics are of NJ roads, the cartoon of motorists going clockwise around the circle is intentional.

Hahahaha!  I feel like most of these apply to New York as well, and the one about traffic circles definitely applies at least as much to Massachusetts, except there they call them rotaries.

[_Simon]

Right. And if a private company bought NJDOT, how would they make money?

Again,  we should have this discussion in a different thread -- perhaps when I have more time I'll start a thread in Fictional Highways.   I could fill pages with ideas for business plans on ways to monetize the operations of running the state-maintained road network alone,  let alone if other modes of transportation were also privatized to the same company.   The catch is that you need to look into it from a private sector standpoint.   What does a DOT have  that no one else can offer?  What types of services can a DOT offer to businesses that would garner a pretty nice premium without sacrificing the spirit and nature of the DOT?  Not so much as a government-constituent function,  but as a business-partner relationship -- what unique assets does a DOT have available to it that could be beneficial to individual citizens, businesses, industries, or even other (less efficiently run) government agencies?  That's where you start to come up with all sorts of interesting ideas.   Imagine Google was awarded a contract via some imaginary legislation that delegated the function and responsibilities of the DOT to them.  Imagine how they would be using an all-reaching, contiguous, uninterrupted network of roads to their monetary advantage... 

[jeffandnicole]

Right. And if a private company bought NJDOT, how would they make money?

Again,  we should have this discussion in a different thread -- perhaps when I have more time I'll start a thread in Fictional Highways.   I could fill pages with ideas for business plans on ways to monetize the operations of running the state-maintained road network alone,  let alone if other modes of transportation were also privatized to the same company.   The catch is that you need to look into it from a private sector standpoint.   What does a DOT have  that no one else can offer?  What types of services can a DOT offer to businesses that would garner a pretty nice premium without sacrificing the spirit and nature of the DOT?  Not so much as a government-constituent function,  but as a business-partner relationship -- what unique assets does a DOT have available to it that could be beneficial to individual citizens, businesses, industries, or even other (less efficiently run) government agencies?  That's where you start to come up with all sorts of interesting ideas.   Imagine Google was awarded a contract via some imaginary legislation that delegated the function and responsibilities of the DOT to them.  Imagine how they would be using an all-reaching, contiguous, uninterrupted network of roads to their monetary advantage... 

So far...anything you previously mentioned are all prohibited or otherwise run afoul of Federal guidelines. Fictional would be fine for such thoughts though.

[_Simon]

So far...anything you previously mentioned are all prohibited or otherwise run afoul of Federal guidelines. Fictional would be fine for such thoughts though.

Federal guidelines of what?   We wouldn't be using federal funding at this point.   

[jeffandnicole]

So far...anything you previously mentioned are all prohibited or otherwise run afoul of Federal guidelines. Fictional would be fine for such thoughts though.

Federal guidelines of what?   We wouldn't be using federal funding at this point.   

Private roads still follow federal guidelines. It's been mentioned extensively on the NJ Turnpike forum.

[_Simon]

So far...anything you previously mentioned are all prohibited or otherwise run afoul of Federal guidelines. Fictional would be fine for such thoughts though.

Federal guidelines of what?   We wouldn't be using federal funding at this point.   

Private roads still follow federal guidelines. It's been mentioned extensively on the NJ Turnpike forum.

Again -- guidelines of what?   Engineering?  Design?  Environmental impact?  Safety?    I don't see how the private company I described wouldn't be meeting those requirements.    Are you saying  there are blanket laws against how states can use roads to make money?   

[Rothman]

All I know is that the Wantagh State Parkway is now ineligible for federal funding due to NY insisting on running fiber optic lines along it.  NY is also now in danger of more mileage being made ineligible for federal funding due to the Taste of NY fiasco.

All I have seen in terms of private operation are companies boosting tolls, not investing proportionally in the road, declaring bankruptcy and then laughing all the way to the bank.

[Rothman]

Also, the idea that utilities would rent lines seems amiss to me.  I believe utilities usually own their own infrastructure.  The one contracted to install the line would own it.  There wouldn't be any rent collected.

[_Simon]

Ok,  last I'm replying here on this because I don't want to derail the topic -- I am planning on making a large post in Fictional Highways later about how this *might* work.

All I know is that the Wantagh State Parkway is now ineligible for federal funding due to NY insisting on running fiber optic lines along it.  NY is also now in danger of more mileage being made ineligible for federal funding due to the Taste of NY fiasco.

As I already said, privatized state roads in my plan wouldn't be eligible for federal funding anyway.   Relying on federal funding is not a valid business plan for a business,  it's not a really good contingency plan for a state to not have self-sufficient infrastructure maintenance, and frankly I don't like some aspects of MUTCD-compliance.

Also, the idea that utilities would rent lines seems amiss to me.  I believe utilities usually own their own infrastructure.  The one contracted to install the line would own it.  There wouldn't be any rent collected.

That is so far off base it's not funny.   I work for a very large national telco and while we do own quite a bit of infrastructure since we are a descendant of the Bell System and have been operating for decades,  a huge operating cost is still real estate and expanding fiber to places that don't have it.   Leasing real estate along roads to put repeaters, distribution equipment, and diagnostic equipment is a large cost,  as well as paying the individual land owners and municipalities for easements and other fees related to using municipal-owned or shared utility poles and space is also costly.   The biggest problem, however,  is running new lines places where there aren't utility poles or existing telco-owned land.   *Roads go everywhere*.   Imagine as a cable company,  you need to run a line down the street from an existing neighborhood to some newly developed houses on a cul-de-sac,  you have three options:  1.  Buy enough contiguous land that you own a single span from point A to point B (which is almost never possible and prevents other use of the land),  2.  Pay multiple real estate owners or the town for an easement to run the cable through their land (which is infeasible, costly, and prone to lots of politics) 3.  The state, for an ongoing fee, runs the cable under the road alongside the network the state already needs to operate for road signage, lights, sensors, etc.    Think about it -- roads go everywhere.   Power lines, gas pipes, and municipal utility space does not.    It is a huge cost to put in underground utilities where there aren't already linear spans of land under single control,  but all of the roads in the state are already there, linked, and periodically dug up and rehabilitated.    Look up "dark fiber",  it's the practice of putting currently-unneeded fiber underground for the future anytime the ground happens to be open just because  it's more cost effective to lay a whole bunch of unused fiber now then to put more in later.

All I have seen in terms of private operation are companies boosting tolls, not investing proportionally in the road, declaring bankruptcy and then laughing all the way to the bank.

Tolls are not a viable way of monetizing DOT operations because they're not dependable,  they're avoidable,  and they directly relate to a specific portion of roadway.   The legislation that privatizes the DOT should put a cap on tolls and make clear what the company/authority's responsibilities are to ensure the people don't get screwed.    My plan would immediately see a huge realization in savings quickly from technological and process efficiency increases alone over the bureaucratic, rigged way we're doing things through subcontractors.    Even without my grandiose ideas,  other states and jurisdictions pay significantly less than NJ does per mile of road maintained,  and that's a pretty commonly accepted fact from talking to folks bitch about the TTF lately.   

[Rothman]

Still think utilities would rather own than rent.  Besides, I'm betting the amount a state could recoup from renting would be pennies on the dollar invested.

[_Simon]

Still think utilities would rather own than rent.  Besides, I'm betting the amount a state could recoup from renting would be pennies on the dollar invested.

Of course they would but it's usually impossible unless the land was already in use for that purpose.  Try buying a 45 mile strip of land 20 feet wide in 2016 anywhere in the state between any two points.  You think a company like Comcast or centurytel is going to purchase vast plots of land just to connect more subscribers?  No.. But if they can rent those lines as necessary from the state they could be able to provide service anywhere it was necessary without needing to charge customers to build utility poles, etc.  Do you have any idea how many people in nj still can't  get fios for this exact reason?  It's not economical for Verizon to run lines out to the middle of nowhere for 12 people, but theres a good chance theres state maintained roads nearby.

SM-G930V

[Alps]

All I know is that the Wantagh State Parkway is now ineligible for federal funding due to NY insisting on running fiber optic lines along it.

I don't buy that. Fiber optic cables are becoming a necessary component of ITS. Does every road with ITS lose Federal funding? Why is FO treated differently than any other utility running along a state right of way? So please cite your source - yes, I Googled and found nothing.

[Rothman]

All I know is that the Wantagh State Parkway is now ineligible for federal funding due to NY insisting on running fiber optic lines along it.

I don't buy that. Fiber optic cables are becoming a necessary component of ITS. Does every road with ITS lose Federal funding? Why is FO treated differently than any other utility running along a state right of way? So please cite your source - yes, I Googled and found nothing.

ITS installation specifically is eligible for federal aid (not sure if the three-year maintenance period still applies, though), but putting an unassociated fiber optic cable along the Wantagh did indeed mean that it lost its federal-aid eligibility.