Illiana Corridor progress

[US 41]

This hypotenuse idea is just dumb. It would cost so much money to build and I-294 already does its job. A lot of truckers and cars go through downtown Chicago on I-94 that want to avoid tolls like me. There is no missing link in Chicago. Chicago is Chicago. It will continue to grow and unfortunately I-294 is the best bypass Chicago will ever have since it rests on Lake Michigan. IDOT (and INDOT) is better off just upgrading their existing interstates when they need widened.

[GeekJedi]

Sorry about the map. It was modified by someone that was comprehensionally-challenged.

Ouch, dude. Ouch.

Sorry - you must not have realized that he's the smartest guy here. Just wait, he'll tell you.

[RoadWarrior56]

The old Crosstown Expressway was proposed to much the same thing as the hypotenose drawing, although using a less direct routing.  It never got built.  I don't see it getting built now.

[Henry]

The old Crosstown Expressway was proposed to much the same thing as the hypotenose drawing, although using a less direct routing.  It never got built.  I don't see it getting built now.

I imagine it would've been something like this?

[dzlsabe]

The old Crosstown Expressway was proposed to much the same thing as the hypotenose drawing, although using a less direct routing.  It never got built.  I don't see it getting built now.

I imagine it would've been something like this?

Look closely. The 16 mile hypotenuse is a much better plan. Shorter, minimal destruction of neighborhoods, dosent parallel existing roads. Would also give RRs a quicker way thru town. Isnt an engineering near impossibility. Finishing I-90 makes way more sense than I-494 ever did or will. 

Heres the MAP  http://imgur.com/u9L0fFx   also see Hypotenuse in Fictional.

[noelbotevera]

The old Crosstown Expressway was proposed to much the same thing as the hypotenose drawing, although using a less direct routing.  It never got built.  I don't see it getting built now.

I imagine it would've been something like this?

Look closely. The 16 mile hypotenuse is a much better plan. Shorter, minimal destruction of neighborhoods, dosent parallel existing roads. Would also give RRs a quicker way thru town. Isnt an engineering near impossibility. Finishing I-90 makes way more sense than I-494 ever did or will.

Hmm...

IL 50 is literally inches away from the road.
I-355 anyone?
South Side section is pointless. End it at I-55.

[dzlsabe]

What the hell is the Hypotenuse Expressway, and could someone draw a map of where it would go? I never heard of such a proposal before.

I just saw that, and that has to be the craziest thing I've ever heard of!



I think that is here:  https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10605.25  .  Probably should be in fictional...


Or this??  Heres the MAP  http://imgur.com/u9L0fFx  Hypotenuse now in fictional.

[dzlsabe]

Sorry about the map. It was modified by someone that was comprehensionally-challenged.

Ouch, dude. Ouch.

Sorry - you must not have realized that he's the smartest guy here. Just wait, he'll tell you.

Dont have to be smart.
Just a map, basic geometry and path finding skills should do it. And read the Tribune Aug 26. http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/359519/2015-08-26-Chicago-traffic-among-worst-Chicago-Tribune.pdf/5338ec11-819c-4dda-a25e-a24593238775

Heres the MAP  http://imgur.com/u9L0fFx Hypotenuse in Fictional 2D

[Revive 755]

South Side section is pointless. End it at I-55.

It's not an adequate bypass for the Circle without reconnecting to I-94.  The section south of I-55 also provides better access to Midway.

[Look closely. The 16 mile hypotenuse is a much better plan. Shorter, minimal destruction of neighborhoods, dosent parallel existing roads.

Which means it would be rather destructive to the neighboorhoods south of I-55, ensuring that it would never be built.

Isnt an engineering near impossibility.

This statement has yet to be adequately justified.  The original Circle Interchange managed to be built, so there's no reason the Crosstown could not be built.

[qquote author=dzlsabe link=topic=6135.msg2104210#msg2104210 date=1446848787]Finishing I-90 makes way more sense than I-494 ever did or will.[/quote]

Other than widening, modifying interchanges, and maybe a few minor geometric changes,  I-90 is finished in Chicagoland.

Just a map, basic geometry and path finding skills should do it.

Takes a lot more than these to locate and design a freeway through a major urban area.

[dzlsabe]

It all starts with a concept.

The only "neighborhood" south of the I-55 portion is the stretch just north of 59th from Damen to Halsted and then SE to the Skyway. And its been "destructed" for FIFTY+ years? Cicero Av. moves pretty well north of 55 past the Ike. Theres no need to go north from that point (I-55 & Cicero). There is a need to go NW to the Strangler. And I-90 isnt really "finished" if its conjoined with I-94 from the Skyway to the Edens. The Kennedy from Edens to Schaumburg would be renamed I-92, the answer to a question nobodies asked yet.

[ET21]

It all starts with a concept.

The only "neighborhood" south of the I-55 portion is the stretch just north of 59th from Damen to Halsted and then SE to the Skyway. And its been "destructed" for FIFTY+ years? Cicero Av. moves pretty well north of 55 past the Ike. Theres no need to go north from that point (I-55 & Cicero). There is a need to go NW to the Strangler. And I-90 isnt really "finished" if its conjoined with I-94 from the Skyway to the Edens. The Kennedy from Edens to Schaumburg would be renamed I-92, the answer to a question nobodies asked yet.

Kennedy designation goes from the Circle to O'Hare via I-190/90 FYI

How did a topic about the Illiana go to renaming an interstate to I-92????

[dzlsabe]

How did Illiana progress as far as it did with such low potential traffic numbers in a very rural area on the fringe of D1 and complete lack of any tollway funding schemes?

[Revive 755]

It all starts with a concept.

The only "neighborhood" south of the I-55 portion is the stretch just north of 59th from Damen to Halsted and then SE to the Skyway. And its been "destructed" for FIFTY+ years?

"Destructed" is not the same as uninhabited.

Cicero Av. moves pretty well north of 55 past the Ike. Theres no need to go north from that point (I-55 & Cicero).

If 30 miles per hour and having to stop for many stoplights can be considered "moving well."

Theres no need to go north from that point (I-55 & Cicero).

Unless one is trying to go to a destination north of I-290 (O'Hare, Evanston, Skokie).

There is a need to go NW to the Strangler.

This movement is already served by I-294.

And I-90 isnt really "finished" if its conjoined with I-94 from the Skyway to the Edens.

So I-90 ain't finished between Rockford and Tomah either, then?  Myabe we should also work on the "unfinished" sections of I-80 too, such as from I-294 to Elyria, OH.

The Kennedy from Edens to Schaumburg would be renamed I-92, the answer to a question nobodies asked yet.

Which is way way too short for a two digit route, as well as putting a mainline interstate through two extremely overloaded ramps in Schaumburg

[dzlsabe]

It all starts with a concept.

The only "neighborhood" south of the I-55 portion is the stretch just north of 59th from Damen to Halsted and then SE to the Skyway. And its been "destructed" for FIFTY+ years?

"Destructed" is not the same as uninhabited.  Thats why I said destructed, although uninhabited is close. And thats the only residential on the south portion. The rest is above RR ROW. 

Cicero Av. moves pretty well north of 55 past the Ike. Theres no need to go north from that point (I-55 & Cicero).

If 30 miles per hour and having to stop for many stoplights can be considered "moving well."
It moves pretty well. There really arent that many lights. Im certainly behind a CTA transit line on Kenton, from Midway (and maybe south and west) to JeffPark (and maybe NE to Evanston)

Theres no need to go north from that point (I-55 & Cicero).

Unless one is trying to go to a destination north of I-290 (O'Hare, Evanston, Skokie).
Ohare and Evanston/Skokie are in two different directions. The north part of Crosstown has huge neighborhood opposition with good reason. It wouldnt be a Tollway (or PPP), hence it would never get funding. And if the Kennedy moved better, there would be no need.

There is a need to go NW to the Strangler.

This movement is already served by I-294. From I-55 & Cicero? Not really.

And I-90 isnt really "finished" if its conjoined with I-94 from the Skyway to the Edens.

So I-90 ain't finished between Rockford and Tomah either, then?  Myabe we should also work on the "unfinished" sections of I-80 too, such as from I-294 to Elyria, OH.

Lets just stick to an easy 16-mile Tollway project that might actually get funded (PPP) and pay off someday. Tomah? A METRA train that went from Ohare to Madison to Eau Claire to MSP in four hours would "bypass" that.

The Kennedy from Edens to Schaumburg would be renamed I-92, the answer to a question nobodies asked yet.

Which is way way too short for a two digit route, as well as putting a mainline interstate through two extremely overloaded ramps in Schaumburg

Schaumburg needs new ramps. I dont think theres any required minimum distance for a two-digit. Think I-12 NOLA.

[Brandon]

Schaumburg needs new ramps. I dont think theres any required minimum distance.

That's a no brainer.  However, it will take the coordination of both IDOT and ISTHA to do it.  Ideally, it should be a four-level stack, IMHO.

[ET21]

How did Illiana progress as far as it did with such low potential traffic numbers in a very rural area on the fringe of D1 and complete lack of any tollway funding schemes?

Because, as stated plenty of times already, the Illiana was/is (depending on the budget battle and House vote) to serve the expanding intermodal yards to the south, relieving traffic off of I-80, and potentially help to serve a possible airport in Peotone.

[dzlsabe]

How did Illiana progress as far as it did with such low potential traffic numbers in a very rural area on the fringe of D1 and complete lack of any tollway funding schemes?

Because, as stated plenty of times already, the Illiana was/is (depending on the budget battle and House vote) to serve the expanding intermodal yards to the south, relieving traffic off of I-80, and potentially help to serve a possible airport in Peotone.

No offense sir, but that will never happen in IDOT D1. And I will show up to every meeting to throw my two cents and many others will as well. Your only hope for either of those projects to succeed is to get Willco into D3.

[mukade]

I would take a step back consider some realities. A hypotenuse-type highway might be a good solution if funding were no object (not true especially in Illinois), the citizens in the areas/neighborhoods where it would pass through supported it, and it would significantly reduce congestion on other highways. I don't think any of those three things are true.

As for the Illiana, some people complain about NIMBYism, but I think the truth of the matter is for any project to get the broad support it needs, you need to consider all parties' "what is in it for me" (WIIFM)? As has been stated numerous times, it should help trucks travelling to and from the intermodal facilities in western Will County as long as the tolls are affordable. So a big WIIFM there is that the new highway would give a competitive advantage to businesses that comprise a strategic and growing part of my county's tax base. It might reduce taxes and raise home values for citizens in that area. After that, the benefits become less clear. The south suburbs really have shown little, if any, growth in decades. What types of business might locate along the new highway? Warehouses and distribution centers, probably, but just a few miles down the road in Indiana, taxes are significantly lower. So if I were a resident of the south suburbs which are in Will County, but far away from the intermodal yards, I would not really see much in it for me unless I happened to frequently travel to central Indiana or west on I-80 west of Joliet.

On the Indiana side, I am really mystified as to why the State of Indiana would support it. My only thought is that they have been pretty scrupulous about investing in all areas of the state so they really wanted a major highway project in NW Indiana. The way I see it is if the highway gets sufficient traffic, the types of businesses that would build along the highway would most likely not be super-desirable: some warehouses, DCs, truck stops, and service businesses. It is doubtful that office parks and corporate buildings would ever locate along the highway, and no one wants another Borman going through their area. Secondly, the highway is so far south of the areas of Northwest Indiana that are populated that it really provides almost no relief to the congestion on highways like US 30. Thirdly, if the traffic volumes turn out to be lower than the projections, very few businesses would locate along the route and most importantly, the state would be on the hook for a big bailout. It would be the anti-Major Moves that would negatively affect highway investment all over the state.

So I only see a good WIIFM for only a small area - western Will County. I would like to understand the WIIFM for the Chicago region, the south suburbs, NW Indiana, the State of Illinois, and the State of Indiana. I think that is why we see so few people supporting this project and why it was so easy for Gov. Rauner to cut it so quickly.

If the project is revived again, someone needs to consider getting a broad base of support and clearly describe why this project deserves funding over other potential ones in the region. Not that I agree with the boondoggle of all of I-69 in places like Mississippi, Arkansas, and three legs in south Texas, but when Indiana wanted to extend it south of Indy, they worked hard to line up support across many states. They created (a somewhat bogus) narrative of a NAFTA highway. But at least states understood they would be supporting a major new highway that could give them a competitive advantage in a global economy. I have never read any compelling case put forth for the Illiana for the routing that was selected. All I read was that the farmers and other opponents are a bunch of NIMBYs. That type of response will not change any minds to build support for the project. Because there was no clear WIIFM for all stakeholders, it was an easy target.

[skluth]

Sorry about the map. It was modified by someone that was comprehensionally-challenged.

Ouch, dude. Ouch.

Sorry - you must not have realized that he's the smartest guy here. Just wait, he'll tell you.

Dont have to be smart.
Just a map, basic geometry and path finding skills should do it. And read the Tribune Aug 26. http://www.cmap.illinois.gov/documents/10180/359519/2015-08-26-Chicago-traffic-among-worst-Chicago-Tribune.pdf/5338ec11-819c-4dda-a25e-a24593238775

Why isn't this in Fictional Highways?

[dzlsabe]

It is. See Hypotenuse in Fictional. But it is a CHOICE of doing Illiana that affects 1K vehicles a day, or Hypo that would affect tens of thousands a day.  Heres the MAP  http://imgur.com/u9L0fFx

[Revive 755]

^ The math on that 1K figure needs checking, particularly the next time a crash shuts down the Borman or I-80 through Joliet.

[Brandon]

^ The math on that 1K figure needs checking, particularly the next time a crash shuts down the Borman or I-80 through Joliet.

Like last night when there was an accident at 183rd Street.  Traffic was backed up to New Lenox eastbound and onto the Tri-State westbound.  I-80 is extremely busy, and full of trucks.

http://www.gettingaroundillinois.com/gai.htm?mt=aadt

[2trailertrucker]

People have seemed to forget what got the Illiana started.

When the newly reconstructed 80/94 got its first first rain, it flooded out around Indianapolis
Blvd. INDOT closed the interstate, funneling traffic to US 30 to the south and the Toll Road to the north. They even removed the tolls!

Traffic on US 30 was a mess! The toll road was losing more money due to no income.

Thus the Illiana!

[Brandon]

People have seemed to forget what got the Illiana started.

When the newly reconstructed 80/94 got its first first rain, it flooded out around Indianapolis
Blvd. INDOT closed the interstate, funneling traffic to US 30 to the south and the Toll Road to the north. They even removed the tolls!

Traffic on US 30 was a mess! The toll road was losing more money due to no income.

Thus the Illiana!

Hence the need for an alternate to I-80.

[mukade]

People have seemed to forget what got the Illiana started.

When the newly reconstructed 80/94 got its first first rain, it flooded out around Indianapolis
Blvd. INDOT closed the interstate, funneling traffic to US 30 to the south and the Toll Road to the north. They even removed the tolls!

Traffic on US 30 was a mess! The toll road was losing more money due to no income.

Thus the Illiana!

That happened once and would not justify a $1B+ highway. With a better routing, there would have been much more support.