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New York

Started by Alex, August 18, 2009, 12:34:57 AM

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Mergingtraffic

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 18, 2013, 11:37:57 AM
Not sure if this is the proper thread to comment regarding recent NYSTA BGS' but I noticed a couple new ones erected near the Palisades Interstate Parkway (PIP) interchange (Exits 13 N-S) along I-87 North/287 West last night.

In addition to overuse of the Clearview font (numerals and all-Caps text), whatever reflectivity materials NYSTA is using on those new BGS'; it absolutely sucks in terms of night visibility


I've noticed that with some new signs in CT, at night the reflectibility is awful.  When headlights shine on some of the signs with white letters on green background, the whole sign looks white.  It looks bleached out from the headlights. 
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
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Interstatefan78

Drove the Northway in Albany County and there was a clearview sign that has a brown says entering Hudson River Valley National Heritage area and I think this is probably placed by the NYSTA on a NYSDOT freeway. Also clearview use in NY seems to go outside NYSTA roads and used in Suffolk County in Brookhaven area local roads

vdeane

NYSTA doesn't have anything to do with the Northway, but it might be a locally provided sign.

As I mentioned in the clearview thread, Yates County also uses clearview.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Duke87

Quote from: vdeane on November 18, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
As I mentioned in the clearview thread, Yates County also uses clearview.

Now that's random. The most obscure county in New York goes and makes itself special.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

PHLBOS

#254
Quote from: doofy103 on November 18, 2013, 07:36:16 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on November 18, 2013, 11:37:57 AM
Not sure if this is the proper thread to comment regarding recent NYSTA BGS' but I noticed a couple new ones erected near the Palisades Interstate Parkway (PIP) interchange (Exits 13 N-S) along I-87 North/287 West last night.

In addition to overuse of the Clearview font (numerals and all-Caps text), whatever reflectivity materials NYSTA is using on those new BGS'; it absolutely sucks in terms of night visibility


I've noticed that with some new signs in CT, at night the reflectibility is awful.  When headlights shine on some of the signs with white letters on green background, the whole sign looks white.  It looks bleached out from the headlights. 
That wasn't the issue I encountered with my headlights aiming at the new Thruway's BGS.  The issue I had was that the white lettering was that it appears as a dark grey against the green background.  It's as if the white lettering wasn't reflectorized.

Quote from: dgolub on November 18, 2013, 06:23:16 PMDid they change what's written on the signs, or are they just new style?
Other than the listing of Bear Mountain as Bear Mtn. (the older BGS' spell out the word Mountain); the BGS' messages are the same as the old BGS and are the exact same size in terms of height & width.

It's worth noting that a couple of BGS' for Exit 11 (US 9A) for Nyack were changed as well not too long ago and the reflectivity issues (or lack thereof) with the lettering and shields are the same.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Snappyjack

Every clearview sign the NYSTA has put up has been an unreadable ugly mess. They all look the same, and cheaply thrown together. I can't believe they've replaced those signs at the PIP. There was NOTHING wrong with them at all.

vdeane

Quote from: PHLBOS on November 19, 2013, 08:37:59 AM
The issue I had was that the white lettering was that it appears as a dark grey against the green background.  It's as if the white lettering wasn't reflectorized.
It IS dark grey lettering; that's the current NYSTA standard, luckily they don't replace signage as often as NYSDOT does.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

empirestate

Quote from: Duke87 on November 18, 2013, 09:48:17 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 18, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
As I mentioned in the clearview thread, Yates County also uses clearview.

Now that's random. The most obscure county in New York goes and makes itself special.

I would have gone with Lewis County for most obscure, but I'll take Yates too. :-)

SignBridge

Now let me get this straight vdeane......... You're telling us that with a national standard (MUTCD Sec. 2E.05) specifying white lettering, the NYSTA goes and uses gray lettering !!! ???? You (or they) have got to be kidding! What planet are those people on????!!!!

I've noticed for the last 20 years that the Thuway's signing always seems to be a little off in various ways. For instance, in some areas they still have road names printed in all upper-case letters, a 1950's practice. It's like they're 50 years behind the times.......... Why don't they just do their signing the same as NYS DOT does, which isn't perfect either, but it is much better than NYSTA's work. Very strange.

machias

Quote from: vdeane on November 18, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
NYSTA doesn't have anything to do with the Northway, but it might be a locally provided sign.

As I mentioned in the clearview thread, Yates County also uses clearview.

There's actually Clearview scattered throughout the Empire State on all NYSDOT maintained roads, mostly because one of the contractors took it upon themselves to use Clearview instead of the FHWA alphabet. They thought they had to.

I believe the Hudson Valley heritage area sign might have been installed by the Thruway Authority as part of the Canal Corporation. All of the Erie Canal Corridor signs are in Clearview, regardless of whether they're on the Thruway or a NYSDOT road. In that instance I believe it's the Canal Corporation/Thruway Authority installing the signs as well.

The Thruway Authority has always been odd with their sign designs but they make a huge mess with Clearview. And if the new overhead signs in the Albany area are any indication, someone doesn't know how to maneuver sign legend around in GuidSIGN because the centering of markers, destinations, etc is all out of whack.

SignBridge

I agree, Clearview font looks awful. Another attempt to fix something that wasn't broken.

And re: the Thruway signs, ya' have to wonder who approves this crap. Maybe the bosses just pencil whip their approvals without actually inspecting the plans drawn up by people who are possibly inexperienced and unskilled. Having worked for government, I can appreciate the problem they may have hiring competent people.

Dr Frankenstein

It's not just NYSTA. Region 7 seems to have caught the bug. (x-post "The Worst of Road Signs")


Interstatefan78

Quote from: upstatenyroads on November 19, 2013, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: vdeane on November 18, 2013, 08:16:59 PM
NYSTA doesn't have anything to do with the Northway, but it might be a locally provided sign.

As I mentioned in the clearview thread, Yates County also uses clearview.

There's actually Clearview scattered throughout the Empire State on all NYSDOT maintained roads, mostly because one of the contractors took it upon themselves to use Clearview instead of the FHWA alphabet. They thought they had to.

I believe the Hudson Valley heritage area sign might have been installed by the Thruway Authority as part of the Canal Corporation. All of the Erie Canal Corridor signs are in Clearview, regardless of whether they're on the Thruway or a NYSDOT road. In that instance I believe it's the Canal Corporation/Thruway Authority installing the signs as well.

The Thruway Authority has always been odd with their sign designs but they make a huge mess with Clearview. And if the new overhead signs in the Albany area are any indication, someone doesn't know how to maneuver sign legend around in GuidSIGN because the centering of markers, destinations, etc is all out of whack.
There is a proof of these brown clear view signs it's actually found on the I-87 Northway in Albany county on the southbound side and in some cases clearview distance signs are found in random places from exit 15 to 24 on I-87 NY thruway

roadman65

Quote from: SignBridge on November 19, 2013, 07:37:56 PM
Now let me get this straight vdeane......... You're telling us that with a national standard (MUTCD Sec. 2E.05) specifying white lettering, the NYSTA goes and uses gray lettering !!! ???? You (or they) have got to be kidding! What planet are those people on????!!!!

I've noticed for the last 20 years that the Thuway's signing always seems to be a little off in various ways. For instance, in some areas they still have road names printed in all upper-case letters, a 1950's practice. It's like they're 50 years behind the times.......... Why don't they just do their signing the same as NYS DOT does, which isn't perfect either, but it is much better than NYSTA's work. Very strange.
Florida's new signing for street names on both I-95 and I-75 are now using upper cases as well.  So the NYSTA is not alone in that practice.  Also, I have seen NYSDOT box their street names on signs like for Taft Road in Syracuse area which is not standard anywhere, or at least anywhere I have traveled to in my years.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

dgolub

Quote from: SignBridge on November 19, 2013, 07:37:56 PM
I've noticed for the last 20 years that the Thuway's signing always seems to be a little off in various ways. For instance, in some areas they still have road names printed in all upper-case letters, a 1950's practice. It's like they're 50 years behind the times.......... Why don't they just do their signing the same as NYS DOT does, which isn't perfect either, but it is much better than NYSTA's work. Very strange.

That's not just the Thruway.  It also happens on a whole batch of the highways in Westchester County.  In many places, they also but boxes around the road names as well.

hbelkins

I actually like NY's practice of putting road/street names in a box. Makes them look like route markers vs. destinations reached by the exit.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

machias

Quote from: hbelkins on November 22, 2013, 10:38:51 AM
I actually like NY's practice of putting road/street names in a box. Makes them look like route markers vs. destinations reached by the exit.

Unfortunately, placing a box around the road name legend impedes any hopes of letter recognition from a distance. At night the whole thing turns into a big white blob.

I am very thankful that NYSDOT stopped the practice completely with the adoption of the 2009 MUTCD.

NYSDOT Region 3 patched several signs north of Syracuse (Taft Rd on I-81 and Circle Drive on I-481 being among them), placing mixed case lettering over the boxed road names. They did this while they were doing other work in the area.

NYSDOT Region 2 hasn't patched any of their existing signs, but new signs use mixed case lettering per the MUTCD.

SignBridge

Well at least NYS DOT realized what a mistake they made with boxing street names of all upper-case letters. Yet another example of creating a problem where there hadn't been one. Fortunately Region-10 on Long Island did not do any of that. In fact on Long Island, they've had mixed-case street names and destinations on the same signs beginning in about 1964, and we've never had a problem recognizing which was a street name or a destination.

And as you can guess, I disagree with the Federal Manual's recommending not having a street name and destination on the same sign.

empirestate

Myself, I'm with H.B. on the boxed street names. I might side with J.P. if my observation matched his, but I haven't myself noticed any readability issue with the practice.

spmkam

The boxed names are odd but if done correctly, there is not an issue. I do think having the street name and destination is not a bad idea.

vdeane

The Thruway has these signs on I-95.  They're essentially a hybrid.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SignBridge

Vdeane, what do you mean by a hybrid? If memory serves, those signs on the New England Thruway went up in the 1980's replacing the original blue signs from the late 1950's. The legends are almost a carbon copy with no modernization, like maybe changing the street names to mixed-case.

Alps

Quote from: SignBridge on November 22, 2013, 08:05:07 PM

And as you can guess, I disagree with the Federal Manual's recommending not having a street name and destination on the same sign.
So do many agencies. NJDOT will mix route numbers and street names on a sign, as well as destinations. We have enough exits that lead to more than one road where that's necessary.

vdeane

Quote from: SignBridge on November 23, 2013, 09:44:08 PM
Vdeane, what do you mean by a hybrid? If memory serves, those signs on the New England Thruway went up in the 1980's replacing the original blue signs from the late 1950's. The legends are almost a carbon copy with no modernization, like maybe changing the street names to mixed-case.
It's the same font and style as the boxed street name signs; they're just missing the box.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

PHLBOS

Quote from: hbelkins on November 22, 2013, 10:38:51 AM
I actually like NY's practice of putting road/street names in a box. Makes them look like route markers vs. destinations reached by the exit.
Actually, the boxing makes the street name listing resemble a street-sign blade; which may have been the intended effect.
GPS does NOT equal GOD



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