News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

State DOT Maps

Started by tdindy88, December 21, 2010, 03:04:30 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Scott5114

I stopped at the Glenrio NM welcome center on Saturday. The lady was probably the most professional welcome center employee I've ever met (she had the exact distance to Las Vegas NV memorized) but said they were out of "the real big maps" and so instead they were handing out glossy 8½" × 11" copies of the statewide Rand McNally map.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef


Bruce

WSDOT no longer publishes Washington's maps, but there still are free paper maps made by Scenic Washington, an unofficial travel booster group. The map lacks insets and other features that an official map would have, which is unfortunate.

wanderer2575

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 22, 2010, 01:51:43 AM
The problem with Rand McNally is that they show minor highways and non-state roads with the same stroke and color. That means if you have a county road that continues straight after the state road ends, you have no way of knowing on the map because the shields just stop. It's hard to know whether the highway ended or whether McNally just made a cartographic decision to omit a shield for space reasons.

AAA maps are the same.

Quote from: hockeyjohn on September 26, 2022, 10:40:25 AM
INDOT discontinued printing an official State map at the end of 2020 although it maintains an on-line version on its website.   Are there other DOTs that no longer print out and distribute maps?

Michigan stopped several years ago producing the annual printed and online versions of the Paving the Way trunkline roadwork maps.  To be fair, this was after the debut of the mi.gov/drive realtime interactive map.  Still, I miss reviewing that publication to see what major roadwork projects were planned for the year.

Michigan still produces a roadmap every year, even if there have been no changes.  It clearly shows state trunklines vs. non-state roads, although there is no distinguishing between major and minor surface routes.  It also shows designated inter-county routes (with the letter-number combinations).  The only thing I don't like about the map is that it changed back to show M- route numbers in diamonds at the same time the physical size of the map was shrunk.  The numbers are printed so small that these old fart eyes have trouble reading the route numbers even with a pair of readers.

kphoger

Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 25, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 22, 2010, 01:51:43 AM
The problem with Rand McNally is that they show minor highways and non-state roads with the same stroke and color. That means if you have a county road that continues straight after the state road ends, you have no way of knowing on the map because the shields just stop. It's hard to know whether the highway ended or whether McNally just made a cartographic decision to omit a shield for space reasons.

AAA maps are the same.

And that's not really a big problem for navigation.  If a state road ends and a county road continues to my destination, then I'm perfectly happy with the county road.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Scott5114

Quote from: kphoger on October 26, 2022, 10:36:05 AM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on October 25, 2022, 11:41:28 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on December 22, 2010, 01:51:43 AM
The problem with Rand McNally is that they show minor highways and non-state roads with the same stroke and color. That means if you have a county road that continues straight after the state road ends, you have no way of knowing on the map because the shields just stop. It's hard to know whether the highway ended or whether McNally just made a cartographic decision to omit a shield for space reasons.

AAA maps are the same.

And that's not really a big problem for navigation.  If a state road ends and a county road continues to my destination, then I'm perfectly happy with the county road.

Even 12 years after I posted it, I don't see how that's not a big deal for navigation. Sure, if you run off the end of the state road, it's whatever. But if you're on an intersecting road and you need to turn onto the ambiguously-marked road, you have no way to tell whether you should be looking for a shield of some sort or some unknown road name that isn't marked on the map.

The assumption that a county road is something you'll be happy with is also something that will vary a lot from state to state. Sure, in Kansas county roads are often just as good as the state roads, and in Oklahoma you'll usually at least get some form of pavement. In the Western states, though, county roads run the gamut from state-highway-like quality to utter deathtrap. In the winter there may be zero maintenance on such roads, and they may be so remote that there is no cell service along them. There's been instances of unlucky travelers getting lost or running into trouble on county roads in the West and dying as a result of it.

Maybe I'm a weenie, but I wouldn't dare set foot on a county road in Nevada (other than Clark 215, of course, which I clinched yesterday) for long-distance travel without asking on AARoads whether it was a good idea or not. And the sort of people who would use a Rand McNally to plan a route usually wouldn't have access to that resource.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on October 26, 2022, 11:10:40 AM
In the Western states, though, county roads run the gamut from state-highway-like quality to utter deathtrap. In the winter there may be zero maintenance on such roads, and they may be so remote that there is no cell service along them. There's been instances of unlucky travelers getting lost or running into trouble on county roads in the West and dying as a result of it.

In my experience, such roads are not marked as paved in RMN.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: skluth on October 25, 2022, 04:17:38 PM
My main complaint is Madison's Beltline is shown as regular multilane highway rather than the freeway it is, even if drivers experience far too many unscheduled stops on it.

I still don't understand why they did that.  It's the worst cartographic choice I have ever seen and makes absolutely zero sense.  After 50 years of being correct, they were like, Nah let's start doing this wrong for no reason.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

hobsini2

Quote from: hockeyjohn on September 26, 2022, 10:40:25 AM
INDOT discontinued printing an official State map at the end of 2020 although it maintains an on-line version on its website.   Are there other DOTs that no longer print out and distribute maps?

https://www.in.gov/indot/resources/maps/
I hated the fact they reduced the number of insets they used to have to just 1 of Indy.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

hobsini2

Quote from: Bruce on October 25, 2022, 10:21:53 PM
WSDOT no longer publishes Washington's maps, but there still are free paper maps made by Scenic Washington, an unofficial travel booster group. The map lacks insets and other features that an official map would have, which is unfortunate.
Thanks for posting the link Bruce. This is one state I have never been able to get a state issued map from.
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Dirt Roads

Bumping this thread for West Virginia.  Just picked up a new state map dated April 2022.  Over the past two decades, WVDOH appears to have been working away from cartography and moving towards GIS-based mapping, and the new map appears to have completed that transition (with some horrible results).  The good news is that the new map is on full-size glossy paper with spectacular artwork, photography and much of the background mapping features show intricate details.  The bad news is:

  • Oversize route markers, often dropped into the worst places
  • Narrow-pen depiction of multi-lane routes
  • Text superimposed over roads, again often in the worst places
  • No separation between roads running alongside parallel rivers/creeks
  • Route markers for short routes literally dropped on top of the entire roadway length
  • Several route markers appear over top of adjacent roads (that are not multiplexed)
  • Many route markers dropped right on top of important intersections
  • Lines depicting roads are even narrower on the urban area insets (it's hard to tell the difference between the blue Interstate routes and the black State Routes)
  • Oversize route markers really look goofy on the thin lines for urban area insets
  • Too many route markers missing, especially on urban area insets
  • Hardly any of the multiplexed routes show both/all of the route markers
  • Oh yeah, like that weird placement of that huge WV-210 route marker right smack dab in the middle of Beckley on the main map (none of the other route markers shown inside of any of the urban areas with insets)
With a little more work in the GIS world, the map can be much better quality.  However, even then there would still be many sections of the map where a "cartographer's touch" is desperately needed.

vdeane

^ Sadly, labeling is a persistent weakness in GIS software (or in ArcGIS, at least).  I can think of quite a few times (most, actually) where making a map for something at work would require converting the labels to annotation and moving (if not making additional edits) each and every one.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Bitmapped

Quote from: Dirt Roads on January 17, 2023, 06:37:02 PM
Bumping this thread for West Virginia.  Just picked up a new state map dated April 2022.  Over the past two decades, WVDOH appears to have been working away from cartography and moving towards GIS-based mapping, and the new map appears to have completed that transition (with some horrible results).  The good news is that the new map is on full-size glossy paper with spectacular artwork, photography and much of the background mapping features show intricate details.  The bad news is:

  • Oversize route markers, often dropped into the worst places
  • Narrow-pen depiction of multi-lane routes
  • Text superimposed over roads, again often in the worst places
  • No separation between roads running alongside parallel rivers/creeks
  • Route markers for short routes literally dropped on top of the entire roadway length
  • Several route markers appear over top of adjacent roads (that are not multiplexed)
  • Many route markers dropped right on top of important intersections
  • Lines depicting roads are even narrower on the urban area insets (it's hard to tell the difference between the blue Interstate routes and the black State Routes)
  • Oversize route markers really look goofy on the thin lines for urban area insets
  • Too many route markers missing, especially on urban area insets
  • Hardly any of the multiplexed routes show both/all of the route markers
  • Oh yeah, like that weird placement of that huge WV-210 route marker right smack dab in the middle of Beckley on the main map (none of the other route markers shown inside of any of the urban areas with insets)
With a little more work in the GIS world, the map can be much better quality.  However, even then there would still be many sections of the map where a "cartographer's touch" is desperately needed.

I didn't realize there was a 2022 edition out. The most recent I've seen and that is available online is 2019.

I think WVDOH moved the state map to being GIS-driven with the 2008-2009 issue although it was pretty significantly re-engineered with the 2019 issue. County maps were still traditional cartography through 2014 before being transitioned. Both moves to GIS have been a downgrade. On the county route side, the biggest problem has been they no longer show Forest Service roads which are a critical part of the road network in many counties.

On some versions of the state map, it's been hard to tell which roads are WV routes versus county routes. They also don't distinguish between paved and unpaved roads, with some roads being shown (like CR 25 in New River Gorge) that are flat out impassible without a high clearance 4x4.

I'm not a fan of the glossy paper WVDOH moved to with the 2019 issue. It doesn't hold up well to repeated folding and unfolding.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: Bitmapped on January 18, 2023, 09:44:28 AM
I think WVDOH moved the state map to being GIS-driven with the 2008-2009 issue although it was pretty significantly re-engineered with the 2019 issue. County maps were still traditional cartography through 2014 before being transitioned. Both moves to GIS have been a downgrade. On the county route side, the biggest problem has been they no longer show Forest Service roads which are a critical part of the road network in many counties.

I was trying to find my most recent copy (couldn't), but came across 2006-07 version.  That one is almost entirely cartography, but it appears that the waterways and a few other underlying graphics have been pulled from GIS data.  The urban area insets appear to be entirely GIS-driven.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.