New York State Thruway

[GenExpwy]

Heading up the Thruway from Harriman to Albany yesterday...Plattekill and New Baltimore had only gas open.  Malden was fully open, but I wasn't horribly impressed.

(EDIT) Meanwhile, every Thruway VMS was announcing a commercial vehicle ban west of Exit 46 (on the Thruway and including I-190) beginning at 4pm yesterday because of the snow.

Yeah, I heard there were feet in Erie County. It seems that for once, the Southern Tier has been spared from the worst of the storm!

VMSes on 390 in southern Livingston County yesterday:

I-90
ALTERNATE

CONTINUE
I-390 SB
I-86 WB

[webny99]

Heading up the Thruway from Harriman to Albany yesterday...Plattekill and New Baltimore had only gas open.  Malden was fully open, but I wasn't horribly impressed.

(EDIT) Meanwhile, every Thruway VMS was announcing a commercial vehicle ban west of Exit 46 (on the Thruway and including I-190) beginning at 4pm yesterday because of the snow.

Yeah, I heard there were feet in Erie County. It seems that for once, the Southern Tier has been spared from the worst of the storm!

VMSes on 390 in southern Livingston County yesterday:

I-90
ALTERNATE

CONTINUE
I-390 SB
I-86 WB

That's sort of like the signs on I-390 NB that tell truck traffic to take I-390 to the Thruway. That's the all-freeway route, but anyone that's familiar with the area knows it's shorter/faster to take one of several shortcuts. In this case, NY 36 is the obvious shortcut. It saves about 25 miles/20 minutes over taking I-390 SB all the way to I-86 WB.

[kirbykart]

Heading up the Thruway from Harriman to Albany yesterday...Plattekill and New Baltimore had only gas open.  Malden was fully open, but I wasn't horribly impressed.

(EDIT) Meanwhile, every Thruway VMS was announcing a commercial vehicle ban west of Exit 46 (on the Thruway and including I-190) beginning at 4pm yesterday because of the snow.

Yeah, I heard there were feet in Erie County. It seems that for once, the Southern Tier has been spared from the worst of the storm!

VMSes on 390 in southern Livingston County yesterday:

I-90
ALTERNATE

CONTINUE
I-390 SB
I-86 WB

By the way, what is the deal with 86 & 390's bizzare interchange?

[webny99]

By the way, what is the deal with 86 & 390's bizzare interchange?

What in particular do you think is bizarre?

The U-shaped ramp from I-86 EB to I-390 NB carries very little traffic. It was presumably built that way so that the movements on I-390 to/from the east would be the predominant through movements, as they certainly are traffic-wise.

[froggie]

^ It's also a way for what would otherwise commonly be a trumpet interchange to have a low-usage loop ramp enter and exit on the right instead of on the left.

[kirbykart]

By the way, what is the deal with 86 & 390's bizzare interchange?

What in particular do you think is bizarre?

The U-shaped ramp from I-86 EB to I-390 NB carries very little traffic. It was presumably built that way so that the movements on I-390 to/from the east would be the predominant through movements, as they certainly are traffic-wise.

That makes sense, I just always thought that a pelican (that's the term I've heard for that type of interchange) is bizzare in and of itself.

[froggie]

That makes sense, I just always thought that a pelican (that's the term I've heard for that type of interchange) is bizzare in and of itself.

The only place I've seen that name applied to that type of interchange is on an Australian website.  I have not seen it in use in the US.

[kirbykart]

^Yes, I also heard that term on an Australian website, and I figure it's just easier to use a single term for the interchange style regardless of location.

[James]

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

[webny99]

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

Current free I-90 should become I-390 when it becomes available when I-99 is extended to Rochester. 

Seriously, this has been proposed many times but it is ultimately fictional as there just isn't enough incentive to shake up the status quo.

[kalvado]

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

Don't hold your breath. It may happen someday, miracles do happen after all. 
And it's probably not that big of a confusion if both routes are about the same, both  distance and time-wise. Local traffic on free I-90 is usually not that bad even during the commute. And most people would take Waze's suggestion regardless of route number.

As for numbering, I-88 could be brought up. All that is purely fictional though.

[Rothman]

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

Flat no.

[lstone19]

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

In general, 2dis go through cities while 3dis go around them. So given that, I-90 is correct where it is (yes, there are exceptions, some of them involving the Thruway). But if you're going to change I-90 at Albany, then you should also be re-routing I-90 around Cleveland via I-271 and I-480, I-94 around Chicago via I-294, and I-5 around L.A. and San Diego via I-405 and I-805 respectively just to name a few.

[James]

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

Don't hold your breath. It may happen someday, miracles do happen after all. 
And it's probably not that big of a confusion if both routes are about the same, both  distance and time-wise. Local traffic on free I-90 is usually not that bad even during the commute. And most people would take Waze's suggestion regardless of route number.

As for numbering, I-88 could be brought up. All that is purely fictional though.

Fair enough. I checked on GMaps and both ways from Exit 24 to Exit B1 are almost virtually identical distance-wise.
It's probably fine as it is now but I bet if they could go back in time, then NYSDoT would 100% reroute I-90 onto I-87 and NY 912M just to divert Boston-oriented traffic away from what's supposed to be the local Albany highway (and maybe to juice out a few more cents via Thruway tolls).

If there's anything that actually should be changed though, it's the direction of the I-90/NY 912M trumpet interchange.

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

In general, 2dis go through cities while 3dis go around them. So given that, I-90 is correct where it is (yes, there are exceptions, some of them involving the Thruway). But if you're going to change I-90 at Albany, then you should also be re-routing I-90 around Cleveland via I-271 and I-480, I-94 around Chicago via I-294, and I-5 around L.A. and San Diego via I-405 and I-805 respectively just to name a few.

No, not necessarily. For example, I-75/I-275 in Tampa or heck, I-90/I-490 in Rochester.

[webny99]

It's probably fine as it is now but I bet if they could go back in time, then NYSDoT would 100% reroute I-90 onto I-87 and NY 912M just to divert Boston-oriented traffic away from what's supposed to be the local Albany highway (and maybe to juice out a few more cents via Thruway tolls).

They already do that at the I-87/I-90 split to encourage I-90 thru traffic to stay on the Thruway.

Will I-90 ever be rerouted onto I-87 and the Berkshire Connecter in the Albany region? Seems like it'd reduce confusion for long distance traffic and divert it away from local Albany traffic. The current section of I-90 from Exit 24 to Exit B1 could be renamed to like I-487 or something.

In general, 2dis go through cities while 3dis go around them. So given that, I-90 is correct where it is (yes, there are exceptions, some of them involving the Thruway). But if you're going to change I-90 at Albany, then you should also be re-routing I-90 around Cleveland via I-271 and I-480, I-94 around Chicago via I-294, and I-5 around L.A. and San Diego via I-405 and I-805 respectively just to name a few.

No, not necessarily. For example, I-75/I-275 in Tampa or heck, I-90/I-490 in Rochester.

The 2di normally takes the shorter route (there are exceptions to this too, such as I-75 in Macon, but they're fewer). I-90 vs. the Thruway in Albany is one case where it is a true toss-up, so it wouldn't matter from a numbering perspective, but there's just not a strong enough case to change it.

[kalvado]

It's probably fine as it is now but I bet if they could go back in time, then NYSDoT would 100% reroute I-90 onto I-87 and NY 912M just to divert Boston-oriented traffic away from what's supposed to be the local Albany highway (and maybe to juice out a few more cents via Thruway tolls).

They already do that at the I-87/I-90 split to encourage I-90 thru traffic to stay on the Thruway.

Just for reference: NYSDOT and NYSTA are different agencies, and looks like they are not great friends.
So, NYSDOT would actually lose no revenue from cars using whatever routing and gains some from trucks logging free I-90 mileage. NYSTA would benefit from tolls, something like $1.50 for cars I believe.
The condition of Castleton bridge is another interesting question. It looks and feels to be in need of massive renovation, if not replacement. I didn't drive there since the last renovation cycle started, though.
And political aspect...  It was a little news footnote when some obscure road was closed in 2016 due to bridge pre-failure conditions. Closing I-90 would make headlines.

[lstone19]

I'll admit my memory is hazy but as a child in the 60s, IIRC, 90 was originally routed via the Thruway from 24 to B1 and was rerouted on to "freebie 90"  only once it was built. I do recall when exit 24, if not going on to the Northway, went straight on to Washington Ave.

[MASTERNC]

Looks like the Thruway Authority wants to remove any discount for those without NY E-ZPass transponders.  Not only would they pay the same rate as the Toll-by-Plate users, but the differential would increase from 30% to 75%.  I know the MTA does this but it makes no sense to charge E-ZPass users the same rate as those whose license plates need to be looked up and a bill to be mailed.

[kalvado]

Looks like the Thruway Authority wants to remove any discount for those without NY E-ZPass transponders.  Not only would they pay the same rate as the Toll-by-Plate users, but the differential would increase from 30% to 75%.

I wonder if that would become a popular trend...

[MASTERNC]

Looks like the Thruway Authority wants to remove any discount for those without NY E-ZPass transponders.  Not only would they pay the same rate as the Toll-by-Plate users, but the differential would increase from 30% to 75%.

I wonder if that would become a popular trend...

Waiting for our friends in PA to do that.  Right now, any E-ZPass user gets about a 60% discount.  It definitely flies in the face of interoperability if agencies are treating their own customers differently than others.

[kalvado]

Looks like the Thruway Authority wants to remove any discount for those without NY E-ZPass transponders.  Not only would they pay the same rate as the Toll-by-Plate users, but the differential would increase from 30% to 75%.

I wonder if that would become a popular trend...

Waiting for our friends in PA to do that.  Right now, any E-ZPass user gets about a 60% discount.  It definitely flies in the face of interoperability if agencies are treating their own customers differently than others.

It still provides the main benefit of interoperability - hassle free toll. For me, that is more important than toll value. In fact the only case where I am a bit concerned over toll value is NYC bridges.
I can certainly understand that toll value can be an issue for those who use their E-ZPass more than once a month, though.

[vdeane]

I'd go so far as to say that having one rate for in-state transponders and forcing the out of state transponders to pay the cash/bill by mail rate is the norm.  NY and MA are unusual in having a separate rate category for out of state transponders, and PA is sadly even more unusual in not having any form of transponder discrimination at all (let's hope they don't get ideas, even their E-ZPass tolls are high enough, and their bill by mail rate is astronomical).

[MASTERNC]

I'd go so far as to say that having one rate for in-state transponders and forcing the out of state transponders to pay the cash/bill by mail rate is the norm.  NY and MA are unusual in having a separate rate category for out of state transponders, and PA is sadly even more unusual in not having any form of transponder discrimination at all (let's hope they don't get ideas, even their E-ZPass tolls are high enough, and their bill by mail rate is astronomical).

I would say it has become the norm (sadly) but the toll-by-mail rate is astronomically higher because of the added costs of that method.  Those costs don't exist for any E-ZPass (unless there is some sort of fee for inter-agency transactions).  A middle rate (like NY has now and MD/MA use) makes much more sense.

[kalvado]

I'd go so far as to say that having one rate for in-state transponders and forcing the out of state transponders to pay the cash/bill by mail rate is the norm.  NY and MA are unusual in having a separate rate category for out of state transponders, and PA is sadly even more unusual in not having any form of transponder discrimination at all (let's hope they don't get ideas, even their E-ZPass tolls are high enough, and their bill by mail rate is astronomical).

An interesting aspect of it is the degree of government control over toll road. That ranges from Masspike maintained by DOT to NYSTA ranging from government when it needs to (for registration suspensions) to almost private (accountability wise); and totally independent agencies (Indiana Toll road, seems like PA turnpike is next). There should be a correlation in policies. 
I can totally see traditional "they don't vote here" approach being primary motivation for those with more government influence.
On an operational side of things, EZpass tolls should be cheaper than by-plate and possibly cheapest for a home agency tag,  just due to billing complexity and efficiency of funds collection. But that is likey the minor consideration   

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

The full proposal is up. 5 % increases for NY EZPasses in 2024 and 2027, out of state and toll by mail rates jump to 75% above NY EZpass rates. Tappan Zee tolls increase each year.

https://www.thruway.ny.gov/news/adjustment/index.html

IIRC, there are not any significant interagency fees or markups  for out of state transponders, but interagency processing/settlements/disputes (initiated by users) in theory take up some time and $. But not enough to justify a huge differential. EZPass publishes derailed rules and standards for toll agencies if anyone is so inclined to read them, they provide some interesting operational details.