US 93 In Arizona Progress

[Bobby5280]

They're at least going to have the land available to make the I-11/I-40 interchange in Kingman a complete "Y" interchange.

I wouldn't think hurricane evacuation routes would be important for NW AZ. When I was a kid my dad was stationed at MCAS Yuma; we were close enough to the Gulf of California that we experienced tropical storm force winds a couple times via hurricanes coming ashore in Baja California and moving into Arizona. Still, it wasn't all that big a deal compared to other far more hurricane-prone places we lived.

[Sub-Urbanite]

It's 12 miles shorter and slightly faster for them to go to Vegas via Needles rather than Kingman.

People driving from Lake Havasu or Parker up to Vegas might save a few miles going by way of Needles and US-95. But here's a couple important points:

Gasoline in that part of Arizona is quite a bit less expensive than it is on California's side of the Colorado River. And fuel prices in NW AZ are still less than the prices in Southern Nevada.

All of existing US-93 between Kingman and the Hoover Dam is 4-lane divided. And there is at least a plan for all of that to be upgraded to Interstate standards. US-95 from Needles up to the I-11 junction is a mix of 2-lane, 4-lane divided and 4-lane not-divided.

Historically, almost all the traffic between Havasu and Vegas uses I-40 and 95. All but 25 miles of that stretch are 4-lanes and the rural speed limit north of NV 163 is 75 mph. Through traffic is going to stick to the west side of the river, methinks.

[US 89]

They're at least going to have the land available to make the I-11/I-40 interchange in Kingman a complete "Y" interchange.

I wouldn't think hurricane evacuation routes would be important for NW AZ. When I was a kid my dad was stationed at MCAS Yuma; we were close enough to the Gulf of California that we experienced tropical storm force winds a couple times via hurricanes coming ashore in Baja California and moving into Arizona. Still, it wasn't all that big a deal compared to other far more hurricane-prone places we lived.

Yeah, hurricane evacuation is a non-issue in the southwest. In all of recorded history, only two storms have ever impacted Arizona with tropical storm force winds: Joanne 1972 and Nora 1997. More common is tropical remnants and moisture getting caught up in the monsoon flow, which happens several times a decade and often results in lots of severe thunderstorms and flash flooding across the southwest.

[armadillo speedbump]

I wouldn't think hurricane evacuation routes would be important for NW AZ.

Yeah, hurricane evacuation is a non-issue in the southwest.

It was heavy sarcasm.

In the Texas section, a lot of arguments for proposed half useless or unneeded upgrades to freeways usually and predictably devolve into desperate cut-n-paste, "But we MUST!!! build it for hurricane evacuations (250 miles inland?)/military needs (saving 15 minutes once a year?)/mythical truck corridors like Calgary-BFE-Mexico Muh NAFTA (what's the actual demand numbers?)/SaFeTy!!!"

[kdk]

The "Gap" widening project through Wickenburg is finally well underway.  At least the southern portion of it is under construction from the northern end of the Wickenburg Interim Bypass to the Wickenburg Ranch roundabout.  I believe the northern part won't start until after the southern segment is finished.

[pderocco]

The "Gap" widening project through Wickenburg is finally well underway.  At least the southern portion of it is under construction from the northern end of the Wickenburg Interim Bypass to the Wickenburg Ranch roundabout.  I believe the northern part won't start until after the southern segment is finished.

It's odd that they didn't include another paltry 0.7 miles up to 89 in this project, since that's where the traffic splits.

And I wonder if, when they get around to the remaining 32 miles or so, it will be 4-lane expressway, necessitating a later upgrade to Interstate freeway standards, or if they'll make it freeway right away. Doesn't look like a lot of driveways out there.

[The Ghostbuster]

I wonder if US 93 from Interstate 40 to Wickenburg will ever become a freeway, since there is basically nothing (no pun intended) along the corridor until one reaches Wickenburg. Except for a "mini" bypass around Wikieup, most of US 93 could be upgraded on-alignment.

[brad2971]

The "Gap" widening project through Wickenburg is finally well underway.  At least the southern portion of it is under construction from the northern end of the Wickenburg Interim Bypass to the Wickenburg Ranch roundabout.  I believe the northern part won't start until after the southern segment is finished.

It's odd that they didn't include another paltry 0.7 miles up to 89 in this project, since that's where the traffic splits.

And I wonder if, when they get around to the remaining 32 miles or so, it will be 4-lane expressway, necessitating a later upgrade to Interstate freeway standards, or if they'll make it freeway right away. Doesn't look like a lot of driveways out there.

I mentioned in an another thread (can't locate it right now) that ADOT is putting out bids for a DCR/Environmental Assessment for the extension of US 93/I-11 from the current end of the four-lane north of SR 89 down to I-10, which would run right through the western part of the future Teravalis development. Once that DCR/EA is finished in about two years, it could very likely end up suggesting that the current routing of US 93 from Tegner St to current SR 89 will end up being an extension of SR 89, and that the only norhtbound connection to new US 93/I-11 will be using SR 89 and SR 71.

[pderocco]

I mentioned in an another thread (can't locate it right now) that ADOT is putting out bids for a DCR/Environmental Assessment for the extension of US 93/I-11 from the current end of the four-lane north of SR 89 down to I-10, which would run right through the western part of the future Teravalis development. Once that DCR/EA is finished in about two years, it could very likely end up suggesting that the current routing of US 93 from Tegner St to current SR 89 will end up being an extension of SR 89, and that the only norhtbound connection to new US 93/I-11 will be using SR 89 and SR 71.

I found this PDF that has various maps (from 2019) showing I-11 alignments passing through the various developments in the area. Most look like fantasies. Things may be more nailed down by now, although it doesn't look like the original MPC layouts were figuring on an Interstate passing through.

https://arizonacrew.org/getmedia/d4ecf887-6b56-4640-91d0-086e87066f88/AZCREW-Nov19-Presentation.pdf.aspx

[Strider]

I don't understand why I-11 have to go to Noagles (I can understand the need for it to go to Reno to connect with I-80). There is already I-19 serving that area.

I thought the reason I-11 exist is to connect Las Vegas and Phoenix, nothing more further than those two cities..... unless I am missing something?

[The Ghostbuster]

I would have stopped Interstate 11 at its junction with Interstate 10, or connected it with the northern terminus of AZ 85, and run it down 85 to Interstate 8. Nogales is already served by Interstate 19, and does not need another Interstate running to it.

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't understand why I-11 have to go to Noagles (I can understand the need for it to go to Reno to connect with I-80). There is already I-19 serving that area.

I thought the reason I-11 exist is to connect Las Vegas and Phoenix, nothing more further than those two cities..... unless I am missing something?

Phoenix-Las Vegas is how this all started out before the rampant real estate speculation on the Arizona end of things got involved.  Worth noting that Arizona hasn't pursued any official applications from AASHTO for I-11.  I would be highly amused that if someone I-11 gets built toward Nogales decades from now and AASHTO refuses to approve a multiplex of I-19.

[DJStephens]

I would have stopped Interstate 11 at its junction with Interstate 10, or connected it with the northern terminus of AZ 85, and run it down 85 to Interstate 8. Nogales is already served by Interstate 19, and does not need another Interstate running to it.

AZ 85 was submitted for supplemental mileage in believe 1968.  Vietnam pared down the mileage approved from 4500 to 1500.  Foolish.  It would be a worthy 3DI connector between 8 and 10.  Am of opinion running 11 down to there is stupid.  It should be re-introduced onto the Grand Avenue corridor, the original intent.   At least get it down to Loop 101.   

[Max Rockatansky]

The problem with Grand is the right of way costs will be prohibitively expensive.  Two alternates options come to mind:

-  Route I-11 down US 60 and AZ 303 to I-10 in Goodyear.
-  Route I-11 along the corridor of AZ 74 to I-17 in northern Phoenix.

[Bobby5280]

Regardless of whether it's called "I-11" or something else, the segment of US-60 between Wickenburg and the 303 loop needs to be updated to Interstate standards. It's likely I-11 could remain stuck as a Las Vegas to Kingman corridor for a long time.

I couldn't care less about building a freeway from Wickenburg to a spot on I-10 way out past Buckeye. It could be decades before such a thing is actually built (if ever). Sun Valley Parkway is already a good enough corridor for what is built out there. I'm skeptical about the big proposed plans developers have for that desert area West of the White Tank Mountains becoming a reality.

[The Ghostbuster]

How would you build an Interstate Standard freeway along the US 60 corridor (Wickenburg-to-Phoenix) when much of the corridor is closely paralleled by railroad tracks adjacent to the westbound lanes (especially southeast of Morristown)?

[Max Rockatansky]

How would you build an Interstate Standard freeway along the US 60 corridor (Wickenburg-to-Phoenix) when much of the corridor is closely paralleled by railroad tracks adjacent to the westbound lanes (especially southeast of Morristown)?

Plenty of room until you get inside of 303 in Surprise.  South of 303 it ain't happening given the rail corridor and frontage property on Grand.  All the same, that's why I suggested AZ 74 in my last post.  That's already a planned freeway corridor and used presently by a ton of traffic trying to get towards Wickenburg.

[KeithE4Phx]

How would you build an Interstate Standard freeway along the US 60 corridor (Wickenburg-to-Phoenix) when much of the corridor is closely paralleled by railroad tracks adjacent to the westbound lanes (especially southeast of Morristown)?

Plenty of room until you get inside of 303 in Surprise.  South of 303 it ain't happening given the rail corridor and frontage property on Grand.  All the same, that's why I suggested AZ 74 in my last post.  That's already a planned freeway corridor and used presently by a ton of traffic trying to get towards Wickenburg.

There's no room SE of Circle City, about halfway between Wickenburg and the US 60/AZ 303 interchange.  The tracks hug US 60 all the way into Phoenix. 

AZ 74 may be a "freeway corridor," but nobody is holding their breath waiting for it to get upgraded beyond a 4-lane expressway, if that.  Most of the bottleneck (at least the last time I drove on it) was around Lake Pleasant.  Besides, to extend 74 to the (now official, AFAIK) I-11 corridor would require the RV park at the 60/74 intersection to be purchased and demolished.  Lotsa luck there.

The bottom line is that there will never be an upgrade to US 60 along Grand Ave.  That horse was shot years ago.   Don't bother beating it.

[Max Rockatansky]

How would you build an Interstate Standard freeway along the US 60 corridor (Wickenburg-to-Phoenix) when much of the corridor is closely paralleled by railroad tracks adjacent to the westbound lanes (especially southeast of Morristown)?

Plenty of room until you get inside of 303 in Surprise.  South of 303 it ain't happening given the rail corridor and frontage property on Grand.  All the same, that's why I suggested AZ 74 in my last post.  That's already a planned freeway corridor and used presently by a ton of traffic trying to get towards Wickenburg.

There's no room SE of Circle City, about halfway between Wickenburg and the US 60/AZ 303 interchange.  The tracks hug US 60 all the way into Phoenix. 

AZ 74 may be a "freeway corridor," but nobody is holding their breath waiting for it to get upgraded beyond a 4-lane expressway, if that.  Most of the bottleneck (at least the last time I drove on it) was around Lake Pleasant.  Besides, to extend 74 to the (now official, AFAIK) I-11 corridor would require the RV park at the 60/74 intersection to be purchased and demolished.  Lotsa luck there.

The bottom line is that there will never be an upgrade to US 60 along Grand Ave.  That horse was shot years ago.   Don't bother beating it.

I literally drive by BNSF main freight line tracks south of Fresno which are presently in the process of being shifted out of a desired right of way daily.  There is no overwhelming challenges between Morristown and AZ 303 to do something similar. 

[KeithE4Phx]

How would you build an Interstate Standard freeway along the US 60 corridor (Wickenburg-to-Phoenix) when much of the corridor is closely paralleled by railroad tracks adjacent to the westbound lanes (especially southeast of Morristown)?

Plenty of room until you get inside of 303 in Surprise.  South of 303 it ain't happening given the rail corridor and frontage property on Grand.  All the same, that's why I suggested AZ 74 in my last post.  That's already a planned freeway corridor and used presently by a ton of traffic trying to get towards Wickenburg.

There's no room SE of Circle City, about halfway between Wickenburg and the US 60/AZ 303 interchange.  The tracks hug US 60 all the way into Phoenix. 

AZ 74 may be a "freeway corridor," but nobody is holding their breath waiting for it to get upgraded beyond a 4-lane expressway, if that.  Most of the bottleneck (at least the last time I drove on it) was around Lake Pleasant.  Besides, to extend 74 to the (now official, AFAIK) I-11 corridor would require the RV park at the 60/74 intersection to be purchased and demolished.  Lotsa luck there.

The bottom line is that there will never be an upgrade to US 60 along Grand Ave.  That horse was shot years ago.   Don't bother beating it.

I literally drive by BNSF main freight line tracks south of Fresno which are presently in the process of being shifted out of a desired right of way daily.  There is no overwhelming challenges between Morristown and AZ 303 to do something similar.

There is development directly on the other side of those tracks in Surprise and Wittman.  No way are those tracks going to be moved without LOTS of taxpayer's money funding the relocation.  The chances of that happening are orders of magnitude less than zero.  In fact, I've never heard the subject brought up in my 30 years here.

Any talk about upgrading US 60/Grand Ave. to a freeway needs to be moved to Fictional Highways.  It's just not gonna happen.

[Max Rockatansky]

How would you build an Interstate Standard freeway along the US 60 corridor (Wickenburg-to-Phoenix) when much of the corridor is closely paralleled by railroad tracks adjacent to the westbound lanes (especially southeast of Morristown)?

Plenty of room until you get inside of 303 in Surprise.  South of 303 it ain't happening given the rail corridor and frontage property on Grand.  All the same, that's why I suggested AZ 74 in my last post.  That's already a planned freeway corridor and used presently by a ton of traffic trying to get towards Wickenburg.

There's no room SE of Circle City, about halfway between Wickenburg and the US 60/AZ 303 interchange.  The tracks hug US 60 all the way into Phoenix. 

AZ 74 may be a "freeway corridor," but nobody is holding their breath waiting for it to get upgraded beyond a 4-lane expressway, if that.  Most of the bottleneck (at least the last time I drove on it) was around Lake Pleasant.  Besides, to extend 74 to the (now official, AFAIK) I-11 corridor would require the RV park at the 60/74 intersection to be purchased and demolished.  Lotsa luck there.

The bottom line is that there will never be an upgrade to US 60 along Grand Ave.  That horse was shot years ago.   Don't bother beating it.

I literally drive by BNSF main freight line tracks south of Fresno which are presently in the process of being shifted out of a desired right of way daily.  There is no overwhelming challenges between Morristown and AZ 303 to do something similar.

There is development directly on the other side of those tracks in Surprise and Wittman.  No way are those tracks going to be moved without LOTS of taxpayer's money funding the relocation.  The chances of that happening are orders of magnitude less than zero.  In fact, I've never heard the subject brought up in my 30 years here.

Any talk about upgrading US 60/Grand Ave. to a freeway needs to be moved to Fictional Highways.  It's just not gonna happen.

As far as I'm concerned "preferred alternatives"  are only "so real"  until shovels are in the ground.  So much about I-11 has been planned in Arizona has been questionable at best.  You act as I don't know US 60 isn't going be upgraded.  If you would have told me in 2001 that US 93 would he fully four lanes potentially one day in Arizona and the Hoover Dam was going to be bypassed I would have been content with that.

Aside from that, if you want to shit can my replies ping a mod.

[The Ghostbuster]

I suppose time will tell what happens. Right now, there is far too much uncertainty to accurately predict what will happen.

[Max Rockatansky]

Perhaps someone can chime in regarding rails?  I'm not seeing anything regarding Interstate design standards which dictate a minimum divide between a freeway and railroad grade.  Both Wittman and Circle City seem to be easy enough places to bypass and use existing Grand as frontage roads. 

[Bobby5280]

For quite some time the US has been decommissioning far more miles of existing railroad than doing upgrades, much less building anything new. That rail line next to US-60 is not a nothing type route. But it sure isn't remotely on par with the Southern Transcon either. With the way the rail industry is going I expect to see many thousands more miles of track get decommissioned and ripped out of the ground. I figure it's only a matter of time before the one rail line we have left in my town gets removed.

Regarding Circle City, there is enough space to build a freeway there along the existing alignment. It doesn't necessarily need frontage roads. Two intersections there have streets bowing out away from the highway seemingly to make room for ramps. The main lanes of US-60 can be built closer to the rail line too. Check out how closely I-40 in downtown OKC was re-built alongside an existing rail line.

The town of Whitman has more than enough space for 2x2 freeway main lanes flanked by continuous frontage roads. The existing utility lines running parallel to the highway would need to be relocated so the current dirt road can be expanded into a proper 2-lane frontage road. But that's not all that big a problem.

Upgrading "Grand Ave" outside the 303 loop to Interstate standards is do-able. It's a different animal than trying to upgrade Grand inside of Loop 303. If anyone wants to get technical about it, ANY version of I-11 to the South of Kingman is very much "fictional" at this point. All that real estate crap various con artists are trying to promote way out past Buckeye could be a pipe dream. The real estate market in the US is in extremely absurd, NOT-sustainable territory. It's a bubble very primed to explode like an H-bomb. That 100,000 or 300,000 or whatever amount of homes they're talking about building out there is probably not ever going to happen. It would be darkly funny as hell if they ended up building I-11 to I-10 way the f*** out there and the whole location well West of Phoenix still remained as vacant desert.

[pderocco]

AZ 74 may be a "freeway corridor," but nobody is holding their breath waiting for it to get upgraded beyond a 4-lane expressway, if that.  Most of the bottleneck (at least the last time I drove on it) was around Lake Pleasant.  Besides, to extend 74 to the (now official, AFAIK) I-11 corridor would require the RV park at the 60/74 intersection to be purchased and demolished.  Lotsa luck there.

Running I-11 over to I-17 would be less useful, because there is no likely future extension beyond that point. Where would it go? To the Beeline Highway? Extending it south to I-10 would likely be followed up with an extension to I-8, which would be a useful Phoenix bypass. Not every truck coming from Vegas is going to the Phoenix area.