New Jersey Turnpike

[Alps]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

While signed East-west, I-76 is mileposted, essentially, north-south (MP 0 is at 295, not the PA line). The SLD lists it north-south, too. It's not too unlike truck 1/9, which is signed north-south, but the SLD and in fact, the mileposts, depict an east-west route.

The SLD, while a pretty cool thing to look at, is for amusement only and shouldn't be relied on as anything official.

Unfortunately true, because it does qualify as an official source, but anytime it contradicts something else I have to tell people "no, don't trust it." We have a project where the changeover from 40 mph to 50 mph is depicted at MP, let's say 38.02 on the SLDs, but it's 38.22 in the field. I found the traffic order confirming the field signage as correct.

[jeffandnicole]

Not every road agency has H.B. Elkins as their public relations officer. I would imagine most of the PR people care little about official terminology and probably don't even talk to the people that would know it.

There are certain officials that will use the absolute correct terminology, and others that use people-speak.  Some NJTA press releases will inform us of road work on the "inner roadway", "Cars only roadway", or use both.  Then there's ones with NJDOT that will inform us there's construction on I-76 North & South. 

The important thing to know...most people will never read them.  But the agency did its due diligence.

While signed East-west, I-76 is mileposted, essentially, north-south (MP 0 is at 295, not the PA line). The SLD lists it north-south, too. It's not too unlike truck 1/9, which is signed north-south, but the SLD and in fact, the mileposts, depict an east-west route.

The SLD, while a pretty cool thing to look at, is for amusement only and shouldn't be relied on as anything official.

Unfortunately true, because it does qualify as an official source, but anytime it contradicts something else I have to tell people "no, don't trust it." We have a project where the changeover from 40 mph to 50 mph is depicted at MP, let's say 38.02 on the SLDs, but it's 38.22 in the field. I found the traffic order confirming the field signage as correct.

I've seen where a speed limit sign goes missing, and in the next SLD the speed limit carries on from the previously signed limit.  Someone in the area must think the speed limit changed and reported it to on the corrections/suggestion form, and the limit was updated without any research.

I think, without looking at it, they report the NJ 55 limit inaccurately coming off of 42 as 55 mph, even though it's properly signed as 65 mph.

(Just a few examples of inaccuracies I've seen in my general area)

[famartin]

Someone should mention that to whomever did the mileposts...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7310533,-74.1122777,3a,75y,101.26h,80.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1splYRCk-3KMg-WK8DxBxBbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[roadman65]

Someone should mention that to whomever did the mileposts...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7310533,-74.1122777,3a,75y,101.26h,80.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1splYRCk-3KMg-WK8DxBxBbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

.



I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes. Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

[storm2k]

Someone should mention that to whomever did the mileposts...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7310533,-74.1122777,3a,75y,101.26h,80.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1splYRCk-3KMg-WK8DxBxBbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

.



I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes. Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

I feel like 1&9 just picked up that weird quirk because everyone just calls it 1&9 and the multiplex lasts for such a long distance (nearly 30 miles) and NJDOT just went with it. It's definitely a more modern phenomenon to sign it in this way, as older signage that still exists does show the shields separately, but that's dwindling. Also, it's still the only multiplex of any length that I've seen use it. The other two I can think of offhand (202-206 and 202-31) always show separate shields for each route.

[famartin]

Someone should mention that to whomever did the mileposts...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7310533,-74.1122777,3a,75y,101.26h,80.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1splYRCk-3KMg-WK8DxBxBbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

.



I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes. Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

I feel like 1&9 just picked up that weird quirk because everyone just calls it 1&9 and the multiplex lasts for such a long distance (nearly 30 miles) and NJDOT just went with it. It's definitely a more modern phenomenon to sign it in this way, as older signage that still exists does show the shields separately, but that's dwindling. Also, it's still the only multiplex of any length that I've seen use it. The other two I can think of offhand (202-206 and 202-31) always show separate shields for each route.

I think it also depends on which NJDOT region. NJDOT central doesn't sign the two shields together like NJDOT north does, but of course, NJDOT central only has a short section of 1/9 in Woodbridge.

[ixnay]

I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes.

That's why there's chocolate, vanilla, and rocky road.  Iykwim.  That said, I myself wouldn't mind separate 1 and 9 signage.

The Maryland SHA did the same thing on the MD 2/MD 4 multiplex in Calvert County in the late '80s when I visited that part of MD.  I saw shields for "2-4" all along that stretch.  If https://tinyurl.com/4tvxtmc8 is any indication, the SHA has discontinued the practice, at least on that multiplex.

Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

As soon as Trenton can afford the Slomin's Shield... oh, wait, we're discussing highway route shields... [blush]

[1995hoo]

roadman65 would be appalled by the Interstate shields in St. Louis that have as many as four numbers on a single sign. Google Maps app isn't giving me a Street View link, so you'll have to click into Street View yourself to see it:

https://goo.gl/maps/4jDsrFYkLGNQPwU77

[famartin]

I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes.

That's why there's chocolate, vanilla, and rocky road.  Iykwim.  That said, I myself wouldn't mind separate 1 and 9 signage.

The Maryland SHA did the same thing on the MD 2/MD 4 multiplex in Calvert County in the late '80s when I visited that part of MD.  I saw shields for "2-4" all along that stretch.  If https://tinyurl.com/4tvxtmc8 is any indication, the SHA has discontinued the practice, at least on that multiplex.

For the most part, yes. There's still a few...

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6604516,-76.6070928,3a,75y,209.23h,83.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se4vVdCE9_9fcXx1XIcFj1A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3De4vVdCE9_9fcXx1XIcFj1A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D216.25208%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6590527,-76.606616,3a,75y,187.36h,88.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFe9get8dJATjhdjcarVKBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[jp the roadgeek]

I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes.

That's why there's chocolate, vanilla, and rocky road.  Iykwim.  That said, I myself wouldn't mind separate 1 and 9 signage.

The Maryland SHA did the same thing on the MD 2/MD 4 multiplex in Calvert County in the late '80s when I visited that part of MD.  I saw shields for "2-4" all along that stretch.  If https://tinyurl.com/4tvxtmc8 is any indication, the SHA has discontinued the practice, at least on that multiplex.

For the most part, yes. There's still a few...

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6604516,-76.6070928,3a,75y,209.23h,83.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1se4vVdCE9_9fcXx1XIcFj1A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3De4vVdCE9_9fcXx1XIcFj1A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D216.25208%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.6590527,-76.606616,3a,75y,187.36h,88.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFe9get8dJATjhdjcarVKBQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Because Canadians driving through the area kept asking where the beer was.

I'll see myself out...

[roadman65]

The NJTA signs Exit 15E as US 1 and US 9. Same for Exit 14.

[bzakharin]

Someone should mention that to whomever did the mileposts...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7310533,-74.1122777,3a,75y,101.26h,80.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1splYRCk-3KMg-WK8DxBxBbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

.



I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes. Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

I feel like 1&9 just picked up that weird quirk because everyone just calls it 1&9 and the multiplex lasts for such a long distance (nearly 30 miles) and NJDOT just went with it. It's definitely a more modern phenomenon to sign it in this way, as older signage that still exists does show the shields separately, but that's dwindling. Also, it's still the only multiplex of any length that I've seen use it. The other two I can think of offhand (202-206 and 202-31) always show separate shields for each route.

And yet older 1&9 signage exists too. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NJ_Route_7_east_at_Truck_US_1-9.jpg#/media/File:NJ_Route_7_east_at_Truck_US_1-9.jpg for example

[famartin]

Someone should mention that to whomever did the mileposts...
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7310533,-74.1122777,3a,75y,101.26h,80.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1splYRCk-3KMg-WK8DxBxBbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

.

I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes. Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

I feel like 1&9 just picked up that weird quirk because everyone just calls it 1&9 and the multiplex lasts for such a long distance (nearly 30 miles) and NJDOT just went with it. It's definitely a more modern phenomenon to sign it in this way, as older signage that still exists does show the shields separately, but that's dwindling. Also, it's still the only multiplex of any length that I've seen use it. The other two I can think of offhand (202-206 and 202-31) always show separate shields for each route.

And yet older 1&9 signage exists too. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NJ_Route_7_east_at_Truck_US_1-9.jpg#/media/File:NJ_Route_7_east_at_Truck_US_1-9.jpg for example

This is the largest sign with 1&9 I know of presently:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7465328,-74.1004979,3a,75y,254.95h,88.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spHHQhVR40ZRGmjrlQ6TgCw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[famartin]

The NJTA signs Exit 15E as US 1 and US 9. Same for Exit 14.

That wasn't the case in the past... 15E never had routes listed until the new signage came along a few years ago. Now its 1/9 for southbound, Truck 1/9 northbound. 1/9 is omitted from Exit 14 signage southbound, at least until they pass 15E.

[roadman65]

The NJTA signs Exit 15E as US 1 and US 9. Same for Exit 14.

That wasn't the case in the past... 15E never had routes listed until the new signage came along a few years ago. Now its 1/9 for southbound, Truck 1/9 northbound. 1/9 is omitted from Exit 14 signage southbound, at least until they pass 15E.

Which proves the fact, it was added after US 1-9 trend already started.  Yes SB it is not signed at 15E for 14 to avoid redundancy. That is why past it, they sign it. Sort of like Allentown on I-195 WB at CR 539.  The advanced sign for CR 526 omits it there, but signs it pass that interchange along with Robbinsville. At CR 539 it's Robbinsville only.

[famartin]

The NJTA signs Exit 15E as US 1 and US 9. Same for Exit 14.

That wasn't the case in the past... 15E never had routes listed until the new signage came along a few years ago. Now its 1/9 for southbound, Truck 1/9 northbound. 1/9 is omitted from Exit 14 signage southbound, at least until they pass 15E.

Which proves the fact, it was added after US 1-9 trend already started.  Yes SB it is not signed at 15E for 14 to avoid redundancy. That is why past it, they sign it. Sort of like Allentown on I-195 WB at CR 539.  The advanced sign for CR 526 omits it there, but signs it pass that interchange along with Robbinsville. At CR 539 it's Robbinsville only.

Its interesting how some of the new signs have added routes, but the Turnpike mostly omits county routes from the mainline, except right past the Exit 1 plaza at the 140/540 exit. 541 would be great at Exit 5, at minimum. GSP doesn't have this issue.

[akotchi]

The "1-9"  or "1&9"  signing phenomenon was to save space on guide signs in a very dense area of numbered routes and ramps.  It is only practical where two one-digit routes are concurrent, such that the combined nomenclature 1-9 is the equivalent of a three-digit number.  Also works only when both routes are the same type, i.e. state or U.S. routes.

This was especially helpful at the splits between the Skyway and Truck 1-9 and around Newark Airport.

"1&9"  became "1-9"  because the former was looking like 169.

[famartin]

The "1-9"  or "1&9"  signing phenomenon was to save space on guide signs in a very dense area of numbered routes and ramps.  It is only practical where two one-digit routes are concurrent, such that the combined nomenclature 1-9 is the equivalent of a three-digit number.  Also works only when both routes are the same type, i.e. state or U.S. routes.

This was especially helpful at the splits between the Skyway and Truck 1-9 and around Newark Airport.

"1&9"  became "1-9"  because the former was looking like 169.

Isn't & forbidden by MUTCD? I thought that's why it went away...

[artmalk]

Every NYC traffic report ends with, "Turnpike Extension better than 1&9."

[famartin]

Every NYC traffic report ends with, "Turnpike Extension better than 1&9."

We're referring specifically to the signs with the ampersand versus those with the dash, not verbal usage.

[jeffandnicole]

The "1-9"  or "1&9"  signing phenomenon was to save space on guide signs in a very dense area of numbered routes and ramps.  It is only practical where two one-digit routes are concurrent, such that the combined nomenclature 1-9 is the equivalent of a three-digit number.  Also works only when both routes are the same type, i.e. state or U.S. routes.

This was especially helpful at the splits between the Skyway and Truck 1-9 and around Newark Airport.

"1&9"  became "1-9"  because the former was looking like 169.

Isn't & forbidden by MUTCD? I thought that's why it went away...

That I believe. Anyone on here (and elsewhere) who said because it looked like 139 or 169 normally did so without any actual justification for such.

Every NYC traffic report ends with, "Turnpike Extension better than 1&9."

They say "one ampersand nine"?

[Scott5114]

I find that I-9 thing annoying. It's US 1- US 9. Two separate routes. Plus when are they ever going to shield Tonelle Avenue and properly sign the US 46 interchange in Palisades Park.

I feel like 1&9 just picked up that weird quirk because everyone just calls it 1&9 and the multiplex lasts for such a long distance (nearly 30 miles) and NJDOT just went with it. It's definitely a more modern phenomenon to sign it in this way, as older signage that still exists does show the shields separately, but that's dwindling. Also, it's still the only multiplex of any length that I've seen use it. The other two I can think of offhand (202-206 and 202-31) always show separate shields for each route.

The "1-9"  or "1&9"  signing phenomenon was to save space on guide signs in a very dense area of numbered routes and ramps.  It is only practical where two one-digit routes are concurrent, such that the combined nomenclature 1-9 is the equivalent of a three-digit number.  Also works only when both routes are the same type, i.e. state or U.S. routes.

I don't think there's a single instance of 56-412 signage in New Mexico that has them on separate shields. Most of them are two lines, with the 56 over the 412, but there is at least one instance of "56/412", on one line with the slash, with the shield stretched to ludicrous width.

[hotdogPi]

but there is at least one instance of "56/412", on one line with the slash, with the shield stretched to ludicrous width.

14/103 takes up less space, since 1s are thinner. Unfortunately, it can't be made into a decimal, unlike US .9875 in Louisiana.

[storm2k]

The NJTA signs Exit 15E as US 1 and US 9. Same for Exit 14.

That wasn't the case in the past... 15E never had routes listed until the new signage came along a few years ago. Now its 1/9 for southbound, Truck 1/9 northbound. 1/9 is omitted from Exit 14 signage southbound, at least until they pass 15E.

Which proves the fact, it was added after US 1-9 trend already started.  Yes SB it is not signed at 15E for 14 to avoid redundancy. That is why past it, they sign it. Sort of like Allentown on I-195 WB at CR 539.  The advanced sign for CR 526 omits it there, but signs it pass that interchange along with Robbinsville. At CR 539 it's Robbinsville only.

NJTA is not NJDOT. NJTA will always do its own thing for signage.

[roadman65]

Yeah and in this case we can have separate shields for the two different US routes, due to NJTA not following suit with the 1-9 combined shield.