AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: NYC Roads  (Read 242755 times)

Alps

  • y u m
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15322
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 39
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:28:10 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1150 on: September 06, 2022, 10:08:01 PM »

Alps, I think blue country's  statement was accurate. LOL

What's with your attitude today?
we have wonderful highways around these parts

SignBridge

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1908
  • Location: Long Island, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:12:19 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1151 on: September 06, 2022, 10:17:34 PM »

I agree! LOL The Brooklyn-Queens Expwy. is my favorite one to drive. Even more than the Cross Bronx Expwy, which is actually a very interesting road re: its construction history and features.
Logged

crispy93

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 160
  • Location: HV New York
  • Last Login: Today at 01:09:15 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1152 on: September 07, 2022, 01:36:27 PM »

Also is this for real?  https://goo.gl/maps/RZQ31HafcX98DCo78
A subway that gives a very short headroom on a freeway.

Further east on the Belt, the overpass from the Cross-Island to the SSP is 8 ft 6 in https://goo.gl/maps/mvEzdpYer12LjnE77
Logged
Not every speed limit in NY needs to be 30

seicer

  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 2031
  • Last Login: Today at 09:48:11 PM
    • Bridges & Tunnels
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1153 on: September 07, 2022, 03:37:31 PM »

That's ridiculous. 8'6" barely clears my Subaru Outback with accessories.

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11270
  • Last Login: Today at 05:44:16 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1154 on: September 07, 2022, 05:57:55 PM »

That's ridiculous. 8'6" barely clears my Subaru Outback with accessories.
Passenger cars only.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

SignBridge

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1908
  • Location: Long Island, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:12:19 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1155 on: September 07, 2022, 08:20:08 PM »

I believe those posted clearances are at the right-hand edge of the roadway. So at those arch shaped underpasses, the clearance is actually better than what's posted.
Logged

bluecountry

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 576
  • Last Login: December 01, 2022, 02:24:57 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1156 on: September 07, 2022, 09:00:23 PM »

It really sucks that NYC highways were built PRE interstate, one wonders how much better the road system would be if it were built 30 years later.
Logged

famartin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 975
  • Location: Trenton NJ area
  • Last Login: Today at 03:26:37 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1157 on: September 07, 2022, 09:05:42 PM »

It really sucks that NYC highways were built PRE interstate, one wonders how much better the road system would be if it were built 30 years later.

One wonders how much could've been built 30 years later when community opposition and environmental regulation mounted.

Its probably a small miracle as much got built as it did. Well, that and Robert Moses.
Logged

SignBridge

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1908
  • Location: Long Island, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:12:19 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1158 on: September 07, 2022, 09:12:38 PM »

For better or worse most of the parkway and expressway network in and around NYC was the product of Robert Moses and his planners right into the 1960's.
Logged

bluecountry

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 576
  • Last Login: December 01, 2022, 02:24:57 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1159 on: September 21, 2022, 07:09:08 AM »

SO let me ask, we all know the CBX and other roads were awful for many reasons, most cited is how it destroyed neighborhoods.
I agree, the freeway was a disaster and unfair what it did to people.

That said, in an ideal world, what would have been the solution?
Destroying a neighborhood is bad, the road itself is bad, so instead of doing it the way it was down, what other solutions were there besides no build?
How could the region have added the necessary freeways to connect NJ to NYC to LI to the Hudson Valley to NE?
Just route everything on the Tappan Zee???
Then how do people get to LI?

In an ideal world, what should have been done where an obvious build had to occur but not like this mess?
Logged

Alps

  • y u m
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15322
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 39
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:28:10 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1160 on: September 21, 2022, 08:02:19 AM »

SO let me ask, we all know the CBX and other roads were awful for many reasons, most cited is how it destroyed neighborhoods.
I agree, the freeway was a disaster and unfair what it did to people.

That said, in an ideal world, what would have been the solution?
Destroying a neighborhood is bad, the road itself is bad, so instead of doing it the way it was down, what other solutions were there besides no build?
How could the region have added the necessary freeways to connect NJ to NYC to LI to the Hudson Valley to NE?
Just route everything on the Tappan Zee???
Then how do people get to LI?

In an ideal world, what should have been done where an obvious build had to occur but not like this mess?
tunnels

Roadgeek Adam

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1240
  • Warren CR 14 - Warrensburg, NY

  • Age: 31
  • Location: East Amherst, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 09:08:07 PM
    • My Flickr Photostream
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1161 on: September 23, 2022, 10:44:20 PM »

Tunnels were not a new concept when the CBX came through. It would have to probably be an express tunnel and a lot of exits probably could not occur, but you absolutely could tunnel through the Bronx there. Unfortunately we can't really fix this mess now and have to live with what we got.
Logged
Adam Seth Moss
M.A. History, Western Illinois University '17
B.A. History, Montclair State University '15
A.A. History & Education - Middlesex County College '13

bluecountry

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 576
  • Last Login: December 01, 2022, 02:24:57 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1162 on: September 29, 2022, 06:59:16 PM »

SO let me ask, we all know the CBX and other roads were awful for many reasons, most cited is how it destroyed neighborhoods.
I agree, the freeway was a disaster and unfair what it did to people.

That said, in an ideal world, what would have been the solution?
Destroying a neighborhood is bad, the road itself is bad, so instead of doing it the way it was down, what other solutions were there besides no build?
How could the region have added the necessary freeways to connect NJ to NYC to LI to the Hudson Valley to NE?
Just route everything on the Tappan Zee???
Then how do people get to LI?

In an ideal world, what should have been done where an obvious build had to occur but not like this mess?
tunnels

Like the big dig in Boston?
You really think they would have done that, really?
Logged

SignBridge

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1908
  • Location: Long Island, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:12:19 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1163 on: October 01, 2022, 08:27:06 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.


 
Logged

bluecountry

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 576
  • Last Login: December 01, 2022, 02:24:57 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1164 on: October 08, 2022, 07:25:31 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.
Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.
Logged

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11270
  • Last Login: Today at 05:44:16 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1165 on: October 08, 2022, 08:23:09 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.
Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.
*citation needed*
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

roadman65

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13450
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Last Login: Today at 06:14:45 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1166 on: October 08, 2022, 08:33:33 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.


 

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it donít have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.
Logged
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

famartin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 975
  • Location: Trenton NJ area
  • Last Login: Today at 03:26:37 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1167 on: October 08, 2022, 08:56:53 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.


 

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it donít have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

NYC hasn't ever widened... well, anything, at least nothing that I can think of. The culture is too anti-highway and pro-transit there.
Logged

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11270
  • Last Login: Today at 05:44:16 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1168 on: October 08, 2022, 09:15:07 PM »



The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.


 

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it donít have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

NYC hasn't ever widened... well, anything, at least nothing that I can think of. The culture is too anti-highway and pro-transit there.

I don't think that's the reason.  The ROW takings to widen would be catastrophic.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

famartin

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 975
  • Location: Trenton NJ area
  • Last Login: Today at 03:26:37 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1169 on: October 08, 2022, 09:34:07 PM »



The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.


 

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it donít have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

NYC hasn't ever widened... well, anything, at least nothing that I can think of. The culture is too anti-highway and pro-transit there.

I don't think that's the reason.  The ROW takings to widen would be catastrophic.

Not catastrophic, but expensive.
Logged

SignBridge

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1908
  • Location: Long Island, New York
  • Last Login: Today at 08:12:19 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1170 on: October 08, 2022, 09:34:43 PM »

There are a few highways in NYC that are wider. Grand Central Parkway in Queens was widened to eight lanes in 1963 from the Brooklyn-Queens Expwy (I-278) to the Kew Gardens Interchange.

And more recently the Staten Island Expwy was widened to include an HOV/Bus Lane in each direction in addition to the original six lanes. This was done by converting the wide median into additional lanes. Not sure if it was originally built in 1964 with that intent, but some NYC area roads were built that way in the Robert Moses era so it's possible.

Also, part of the Bruckner Expwy (I-95) in The Bronx is eight lanes between the Hutchinson River Pkwy and I-695.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 09:38:51 PM by SignBridge »
Logged

roadman65

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13450
  • Location: Lakeland, Florida
  • Last Login: Today at 06:14:45 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1171 on: October 08, 2022, 11:23:07 PM »

NJ is the same with NJ 495. Itís at six lanes with hour long waits into the Lincoln Tunnel and could use the removal of the two frontage roads to do it. However, youíre not only talking about destroying neighborhoods but blasting through solid rock there too. Very costly on that.
Logged
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Alps

  • y u m
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15322
  • Elimitante the truck trarffic,

  • Age: 39
  • Location: New Jersey
  • Last Login: Today at 12:28:10 AM
    • Alps' Roads
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1172 on: October 08, 2022, 11:23:22 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.
Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.
No, he did. He said "my way or the highway".

SidS1045

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 927
  • Age: 71
  • Location: Stoneham MA
  • Last Login: November 21, 2022, 02:55:26 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1173 on: October 12, 2022, 01:35:53 PM »

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.
Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.
*citation needed*

The chapter "One Mile" in The Power Broker.  The old Third Avenue Bus Company, which had its depot where Robert Moses originally wanted to place the CBX, had lots of political clout and successfully pressured him to move it north of their depot into the midst of the apartment buildings of East Tremont, inhabited by people with no political clout.
Logged
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow

Rothman

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 11270
  • Last Login: Today at 05:44:16 PM
Re: NYC Roads
« Reply #1174 on: October 12, 2022, 03:26:12 PM »



The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.
 
Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.
Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.
*citation needed*

The chapter "One Mile" in The Power Broker.  The old Third Avenue Bus Company, which had its depot where Robert Moses originally wanted to place the CBX, had lots of political clout and successfully pressured him to move it north of their depot into the midst of the apartment buildings of East Tremont, inhabited by people with no political clout.

I agree with The Power Broker's account, which is not what was described by bluecountry.
Logged
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.