NYC Roads

[Alps]

Alps, I think blue country's  statement was accurate. LOL

What's with your attitude today?

we have wonderful highways around these parts

[SignBridge]

I agree! LOL The Brooklyn-Queens Expwy. is my favorite one to drive. Even more than the Cross Bronx Expwy, which is actually a very interesting road re: its construction history and features.

[crispy93]

Also is this for real?  https://goo.gl/maps/RZQ31HafcX98DCo78
A subway that gives a very short headroom on a freeway.

Further east on the Belt, the overpass from the Cross-Island to the SSP is 8 ft 6 in https://goo.gl/maps/mvEzdpYer12LjnE77

[seicer]

That's ridiculous. 8'6" barely clears my Subaru Outback with accessories.

[Rothman]

That's ridiculous. 8'6" barely clears my Subaru Outback with accessories.

Passenger cars only.

[SignBridge]

I believe those posted clearances are at the right-hand edge of the roadway. So at those arch shaped underpasses, the clearance is actually better than what's posted.

[bluecountry]

It really sucks that NYC highways were built PRE interstate, one wonders how much better the road system would be if it were built 30 years later.

[famartin]

It really sucks that NYC highways were built PRE interstate, one wonders how much better the road system would be if it were built 30 years later.

One wonders how much could've been built 30 years later when community opposition and environmental regulation mounted.

Its probably a small miracle as much got built as it did. Well, that and Robert Moses.

[SignBridge]

For better or worse most of the parkway and expressway network in and around NYC was the product of Robert Moses and his planners right into the 1960's.

[bluecountry]

SO let me ask, we all know the CBX and other roads were awful for many reasons, most cited is how it destroyed neighborhoods.
I agree, the freeway was a disaster and unfair what it did to people.

That said, in an ideal world, what would have been the solution?
Destroying a neighborhood is bad, the road itself is bad, so instead of doing it the way it was down, what other solutions were there besides no build?
How could the region have added the necessary freeways to connect NJ to NYC to LI to the Hudson Valley to NE?
Just route everything on the Tappan Zee???
Then how do people get to LI?

In an ideal world, what should have been done where an obvious build had to occur but not like this mess?

[Alps]

SO let me ask, we all know the CBX and other roads were awful for many reasons, most cited is how it destroyed neighborhoods.
I agree, the freeway was a disaster and unfair what it did to people.

That said, in an ideal world, what would have been the solution?
Destroying a neighborhood is bad, the road itself is bad, so instead of doing it the way it was down, what other solutions were there besides no build?
How could the region have added the necessary freeways to connect NJ to NYC to LI to the Hudson Valley to NE?
Just route everything on the Tappan Zee???
Then how do people get to LI?

In an ideal world, what should have been done where an obvious build had to occur but not like this mess?

tunnels

[Roadgeek Adam]

Tunnels were not a new concept when the CBX came through. It would have to probably be an express tunnel and a lot of exits probably could not occur, but you absolutely could tunnel through the Bronx there. Unfortunately we can't really fix this mess now and have to live with what we got.

[bluecountry]

SO let me ask, we all know the CBX and other roads were awful for many reasons, most cited is how it destroyed neighborhoods.
I agree, the freeway was a disaster and unfair what it did to people.

That said, in an ideal world, what would have been the solution?
Destroying a neighborhood is bad, the road itself is bad, so instead of doing it the way it was down, what other solutions were there besides no build?
How could the region have added the necessary freeways to connect NJ to NYC to LI to the Hudson Valley to NE?
Just route everything on the Tappan Zee???
Then how do people get to LI?

In an ideal world, what should have been done where an obvious build had to occur but not like this mess?

tunnels

Like the big dig in Boston?
You really think they would have done that, really?

[SignBridge]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

[bluecountry]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.

[Rothman]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.

*citation needed*

[roadman65]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it don't have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

[famartin]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it don't have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

NYC hasn't ever widened... well, anything, at least nothing that I can think of. The culture is too anti-highway and pro-transit there.

[Rothman]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it don't have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

NYC hasn't ever widened... well, anything, at least nothing that I can think of. The culture is too anti-highway and pro-transit there.

I don't think that's the reason.  The ROW takings to widen would be catastrophic.

[famartin]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Interesting. I never realized it. NYC has no expressways wider than six lanes. Despite it being the largest city in the US, it don't have the capacity  like other cities smaller than it has for roads. Even Atlanta has the super wide I-75 going through it.

NYC hasn't ever widened... well, anything, at least nothing that I can think of. The culture is too anti-highway and pro-transit there.

I don't think that's the reason.  The ROW takings to widen would be catastrophic.

Not catastrophic, but expensive.

[SignBridge]

There are a few highways in NYC that are wider. Grand Central Parkway in Queens was widened to eight lanes in 1963 from the Brooklyn-Queens Expwy (I-278) to the Kew Gardens Interchange.

And more recently the Staten Island Expwy was widened to include an HOV/Bus Lane in each direction in addition to the original six lanes. This was done by converting the wide median into additional lanes. Not sure if it was originally built in 1964 with that intent, but some NYC area roads were built that way in the Robert Moses era so it's possible.

Also, part of the Bruckner Expwy (I-95) in The Bronx is eight lanes between the Hutchinson River Pkwy and I-695.

[roadman65]

NJ is the same with NJ 495. It's at six lanes with hour long waits into the Lincoln Tunnel and could use the removal of the two frontage roads to do it. However, you're not only talking about destroying neighborhoods but blasting through solid rock there too. Very costly on that.

[Alps]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.

No, he did. He said "my way or the highway".

[SidS1045]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.

*citation needed*

The chapter "One Mile" in The Power Broker.  The old Third Avenue Bus Company, which had its depot where Robert Moses originally wanted to place the CBX, had lots of political clout and successfully pressured him to move it north of their depot into the midst of the apartment buildings of East Tremont, inhabited by people with no political clout.

[Rothman]

The problem was not so much that the CBX was built, but the cut-throat way it was designed and executed. The route could have been slightly different to have spared at least one neighborhood but that wasn't done because of politics. And the residents who were displaced by the road could and should have been treated much better than they were.

Had those things been done, the CBX might not have the bad reputation that it does today.

Some design features might have been a little different as well, but remember this was almost seventy years ago and the highway was typical of 1950's era design and six-lane highways in the NYC area were the norm at that time. Building it any wider was probably not possible anyway due to space constraints.

Moses easily could have shifted it south with less destruction but I believe his business associates/friends wanted it where it was placed.

*citation needed*

The chapter "One Mile" in The Power Broker.  The old Third Avenue Bus Company, which had its depot where Robert Moses originally wanted to place the CBX, had lots of political clout and successfully pressured him to move it north of their depot into the midst of the apartment buildings of East Tremont, inhabited by people with no political clout.

I agree with The Power Broker's account, which is not what was described by bluecountry.