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Interstate 55/ Crump Boulevard Interchange

Started by Grzrd, May 26, 2017, 02:44:34 PM

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edwaleni

Quote from: silverback1065 on April 05, 2022, 08:24:08 AM
since the mississippi river bridge was brought up, is it a remote possibility that 269 will snake into arkansas to make a 3rd bridge for the metro area?

It is a question that is asked a lot, but it appears ARDOT is focused on I-49 and I-57 at the moment.

TNDOT would have to initiate it and while they aren't very transparent, I haven't found anything on any bridging expansions.

If another inflationary overspend on environmental infrastructure is passed in our Congress and it gets a rider from the TN/AR delegation for funding, then and only then would I expect *anything*.


The Ghostbuster

Also, isn't the Meeman-Shelby Forest State Park in the way of a possible TN 385 (future Interstate 269) extension westward toward Interstate 55 in Arkansas? I don't see how 385 could possibly bypass the state park.

Brooks

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 05, 2022, 11:44:29 AM
Also, isn't the Meeman-Shelby Forest State Park in the way of a possible TN 385 (future Interstate 269) extension westward toward Interstate 55 in Arkansas? I don't see how 385 could possibly bypass the state park.
Yes, it is directly west of where 385 currently ends at US 51. I've seen a lot of comments stating that TDOT could just build through/around the park but I think a certain Supreme Court case from the 70s would beg to differ.

edwaleni

Quote from: Brooks on April 05, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 05, 2022, 11:44:29 AM
Also, isn't the Meeman-Shelby Forest State Park in the way of a possible TN 385 (future Interstate 269) extension westward toward Interstate 55 in Arkansas? I don't see how 385 could possibly bypass the state park.
Yes, it is directly west of where 385 currently ends at US 51. I've seen a lot of comments stating that TDOT could just build through/around the park but I think a certain Supreme Court case from the 70s would beg to differ.

If they did it, it would probably be the "other" beltway farther south by Wolf River.  The Hopefield Chute and the Loosahatchie Bar falls inside the TN state line due to an old oxbow in the river ages ago. TNDOT could build the entire bridge themselves, ARDOT would only build the approach to the state line.

The original plans for I-69 here didn't have any accommodations for a ramp to a bridge here, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

silverback1065

Quote from: Brooks on April 05, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 05, 2022, 11:44:29 AM
Also, isn't the Meeman-Shelby Forest State Park in the way of a possible TN 385 (future Interstate 269) extension westward toward Interstate 55 in Arkansas? I don't see how 385 could possibly bypass the state park.
Yes, it is directly west of where 385 currently ends at US 51. I've seen a lot of comments stating that TDOT could just build through/around the park but I think a certain Supreme Court case from the 70s would beg to differ.

seems pretty easy to just route it north of the park and completely miss it.

MikieTimT

Quote from: edwaleni on April 05, 2022, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: Brooks on April 05, 2022, 12:01:00 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 05, 2022, 11:44:29 AM
Also, isn't the Meeman-Shelby Forest State Park in the way of a possible TN 385 (future Interstate 269) extension westward toward Interstate 55 in Arkansas? I don't see how 385 could possibly bypass the state park.
Yes, it is directly west of where 385 currently ends at US 51. I've seen a lot of comments stating that TDOT could just build through/around the park but I think a certain Supreme Court case from the 70s would beg to differ.

If they did it, it would probably be the "other" beltway farther south by Wolf River.  The Hopefield Chute and the Loosahatchie Bar falls inside the TN state line due to an old oxbow in the river ages ago. TNDOT could build the entire bridge themselves, ARDOT would only build the approach to the state line.

The original plans for I-69 here didn't have any accommodations for a ramp to a bridge here, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.

That would seem to be more a northerly reroute of the current I-40 river crossing rather than bypassing Memphis to the north.  Maybe something to consider if the Hernando De Soto bridge were to require complete replacement.

abqtraveler

Looking at GSV of the I-55/Crump Boulevard interchange in Memphis, it looks like construction is well underway to reconfigure the interchange to allow through movements for I-55 traffic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1238166,-90.068022,3a,75y,183.58h,92.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp5oob12i4uZ2p06KjpW0hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Plutonic Panda

Nice! I'm surprised this isn't getting more attention. It's arguably one of the worst bottlenecks in the entire country.

abqtraveler

#233
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 01, 2023, 08:19:34 PM
Nice! I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. It’s arguably one of the worst bottlenecks in the entire country.
They were originally planning for a 9-month long full closure of the I-55 bridge over the Mississippi River to facilitate reconstruction of the Crump Boulevard interchange, but TDOT abandoned that plan (probably due to a lot of opposition the local community and motorists) and will now reconstruct the Crump interchange in stages over the course of four years.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-55-crump-boulevard-interchange.html

So then the next question will be...are there any plans by either Arkansas or Tennessee to replace the existing I-55 Mississippi River Bridge, or perhaps build a parallel span and rehabilitate/reconfigure the existing bridge?
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

triplemultiplex

Quote from: abqtraveler on March 01, 2023, 08:25:49 PM
So then the next question will be...are there any plans by either Arkansas or Tennessee to replace the existing I-55 Mississippi River Bridge, or perhaps build a parallel span and rehabilitate/reconfigure the existing bridge?

The only hope, in my opinion, is an earmark from the Feds.
That, or wait for New Madrid to drop the existing bridge into the damn river.  :paranoid:
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

MikieTimT

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 02, 2023, 01:01:32 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on March 01, 2023, 08:25:49 PM
So then the next question will be...are there any plans by either Arkansas or Tennessee to replace the existing I-55 Mississippi River Bridge, or perhaps build a parallel span and rehabilitate/reconfigure the existing bridge?

The only hope, in my opinion, is an earmark from the Feds.
That, or wait for New Madrid to drop the existing bridge into the damn river.  :paranoid:

Yup...

See I-35/40 bridge disasters over the past couple of decades for insight on how these things get prioritized.  We just got lucky with the Hernando de Soto bridge that it wasn't a replay.

bwana39

Quote from: abqtraveler on March 01, 2023, 08:25:49 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 01, 2023, 08:19:34 PM
Nice! I'm surprised this isn't getting more attention. It's arguably one of the worst bottlenecks in the entire country.
They were originally planning for a 9-month long full closure of the I-55 bridge over the Mississippi River to facilitate reconstruction of the Crump Boulevard interchange, but TDOT abandoned that plan (probably due to a lot of opposition the local community and motorists) and will now reconstruct the Crump interchange in stages over the course of four years.

https://www.tn.gov/tdot/projects/region-4/interstate-55-crump-boulevard-interchange.html

So then the next question will be...are there any plans by either Arkansas or Tennessee to replace the existing I-55 Mississippi River Bridge, or perhaps build a parallel span and rehabilitate/reconfigure the existing bridge?

There are no "plans", but the repetitive delays in fixing the interchange may be surrounded by the HOPE that it might happen.  If a new bridge were to be built (either in southern Memphis ) or Northern Mississippi, the reconfigured intersection would be more of a disruption than a help. If / when I-55 was rerouted, US-78 (Crump Boulevard) would become the primary route here all of the time instead of just morning and evening commute times.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Henry

I just took a gander at the TDOT project page, and I like what I'm seeing. For one, Crump Blvd will go through a roundabout where the existing interchange is, and for another, I-55 will become a free-flowing route with the new flyovers. Hopefully, there won't be another delay this time.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

froggie

Quote from: abqtraveler on March 01, 2023, 08:16:26 PM
Looking at GSV of the I-55/Crump Boulevard interchange in Memphis, it looks like construction is well underway to reconfigure the interchange to allow through movements for I-55 traffic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1238166,-90.068022,3a,75y,183.58h,92.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp5oob12i4uZ2p06KjpW0hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The specific link you provided looks more like soundwall construction, but the December imagery in my link definitely looks like things have begun.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: froggie on March 03, 2023, 08:29:33 PM
Quote from: abqtraveler on March 01, 2023, 08:16:26 PM
Looking at GSV of the I-55/Crump Boulevard interchange in Memphis, it looks like construction is well underway to reconfigure the interchange to allow through movements for I-55 traffic.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1238166,-90.068022,3a,75y,183.58h,92.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp5oob12i4uZ2p06KjpW0hg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

The specific link you provided looks more like soundwall construction, but the December imagery in my link definitely looks like things have begun.


I was in Memphis back in January. There is real construction on that interchange, not just for a soundwall.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Plutonic Panda

Yeah this will be nice. The next big things after this they need to focus on are the I-40 and I-55 bridges. Both will require cooperation with Arkansas, I-55 bridge being more of an Arkansas thing. I wonder if that will help the odds of federal grants being awarded. The bullet just needs to be bit this decade to get both bridges replaced while all of this infrastructure money is going around.

At the same TDOT can also work on Lamar Ave. 3 major projects for Memphis shouldn't be too much of a dilemma for them to take on. Everything else can come later with the new bridges having a 70+ year span plenty of time for other projects then.

bwana39

Quote from: Henry on March 03, 2023, 07:16:38 PM
I just took a gander at the TDOT project page, and I like what I'm seeing. For one, Crump Blvd will go through a roundabout where the existing interchange is, and for another, I-55 will become a free-flowing route with the new flyovers. Hopefully, there won't be another delay this time.

That roundabout is going to be a mess. During morning rush, the SB / EB traffic across the bridge goes north on  Riverside or BB King to downtown or straight to Crump and vice versa in the afternoon.  This thing is going to look like Piccadilly circus. It is not going to be pretty. There are better ways to do this. I agree this is best for I-55, but I-55 is not the only road that crosses here and I-55 will likely be relocated within a decade or two.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

The Ghostbuster


sprjus4

^ Considering there has not been any official studies, let alone any talks to begin with, I highly doubt I-55 is going anywhere for the next 20-30 years at the minimum.

At the minimum, how about a parallel I-55 bridge and rehabilitation of the existing one? Complete replacement? I'm doubtful a full new alignment is coming anytime soon, however. That would entail not only a new bridge but also miles of connecting freeway to be constructed.

Anthony_JK

The only relocation that would possibly make sense would be to make an I-55 bypass using the orphaned I-69 at Tunica, extended across the Mississippi to connect with I-40, and then connecting with I-55 again south of the I-555 terminus near Terrell. Problem with that is, what would you do with the current I-55 between I-269/relocated I-55 and downtown Memphis, or the current section of I-55? Unless you are willing to build out the I-69 extension from downtown Memphis to Dyersburg and the Union City bypass section, you have no real connection alternative to downtown Memphis other than I-40.

A rebuild and strengthening of the current I-55 bridge might be the only real option.

Plutonic Panda

They need to add safety standards like shoulders and expand it to 3 lanes each way.

abqtraveler

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 06, 2023, 01:07:15 AM
They need to add safety standards like shoulders and expand it to 3 lanes each way.
To do that, they would have to build a completely new bridge, or build a parallel span to carry traffic in one direction and rehabilitate/reconfigure the existing bridge to carry traffic in the other direction, much like what was done with the I-65 bridges over the Ohio River between Louisville, KY and southern Indiana.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

silverback1065

Quote from: bwana39 on March 05, 2023, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: Henry on March 03, 2023, 07:16:38 PM
I just took a gander at the TDOT project page, and I like what I'm seeing. For one, Crump Blvd will go through a roundabout where the existing interchange is, and for another, I-55 will become a free-flowing route with the new flyovers. Hopefully, there won't be another delay this time.

That roundabout is going to be a mess. During morning rush, the SB / EB traffic across the bridge goes north on  Riverside or BB King to downtown or straight to Crump and vice versa in the afternoon.  This thing is going to look like Piccadilly circus. It is not going to be pretty. There are better ways to do this. I agree this is best for I-55, but I-55 is not the only road that crosses here and I-55 will likely be relocated within a decade or two.

They did a traffic study to see if a roundabout would work. they probably found from that data that it will work, hence why they went with it. give the engineer's credit, they don't just throw things in random areas and see if they'll work or not  :-D they have a reason for everything.

bwana39

Quote from: Anthony_JK on March 06, 2023, 12:17:55 AM
The only relocation that would possibly make sense would be to make an I-55 bypass using the orphaned I-69 at Tunica, extended across the Mississippi to connect with I-40, and then connecting with I-55 again south of the I-555 terminus near Terrell. Problem with that is, what would you do with the current I-55 between I-269/relocated I-55 and downtown Memphis, or the current section of I-55? Unless you are willing to build out the I-69 extension from downtown Memphis to Dyersburg and the Union City bypass section, you have no real connection alternative to downtown Memphis other than I-40.

A rebuild and strengthening of the current I-55 bridge might be the only real option.

It isn't like they are going to remove the Arkansas and Tennessee (Current I-55) bridge. The only issues with this bridge are capacity and earthquake resilience. Once (IF) I -55 moves, the capacity issue will be markedly lessened. The earthquake resilience issue is IF the big one hits, that it MIGHT partially or completely fail.  The simple fact is IF that happens, the damage to approaches and bridges across lesser bodies of water would be more likely to close the roads with no regard to the status of the A&T.

The primary reason the extended discussion of the earthquake damage to the existing bridge is more about the traffic that would be unable to transverse if it failed. This is an argument for a new bridge, but not necessarily removing this one when (if) it is bypassed.

I agree the northern Mississippi alternative SEEMS better to me, but there is a viable site extending from east of the BASF plant in West Memphis to around the Seacor site in Memphis tying in to the existing I-55 around South Parkway.  Expanding in place while feasible from a river and land perspective, from a cultural perspective, there is no willingness to allow any further expansion of the footprint here.  Expanding anything on the existing US-78 alignment (and to a lesser extent the southward I-55) is a no-go.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Bobby5280

I don't think re-locating I-55 to another alignment is a realistic thing. Yes, it could be routed along an extension of the I-269 loop across the Mississippi River near Tunica. But the city of Memphis itself needs the two bridge crossings it has.

The current I-55 bridge sucks. It's just 4 lanes with zero shoulders at all. The bridge was completed in 1949; so it's getting up there in the years. I don't know if it's worth trying to rehabilitate the bridge versus starting over. The current trend with Interstate highway bridges over major rivers or navigation channels is building twin spans. The old Goethals Bridge (I-278) in Staten Island was a bit similar to the I-55 bridge, with just 4 lanes. Its replacement, two cable-stay bridges each have 3 lanes plus ample shoulders. And the North (Westbound) span has a barrier separated pedestrian/bike path. That's really the kind of thing needed at that I-55 bridge crossing.



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