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Rural Freeways That Need Six Lanes

Started by webny99, January 01, 2019, 12:58:05 PM

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sprjus4

Quote from: webny99 on December 09, 2022, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 09, 2022, 01:21:19 PM
^ I-85 is 6 lanes immediately east of where it splits from I-40, then drops to 4 lanes. So that merge would be unaffected.

Although more traffic would be able to reach the merge with I-40 at a faster rate, since the 4-lane section currently constrains it.
There's about 1.2 miles of 3 lane westbound on I-85 before the I-40 lanes come in, so traffic would likely disperse across all the lanes by that point.


webny99

#651
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 09, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 09, 2022, 01:32:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on December 09, 2022, 01:21:19 PM
^ I-85 is 6 lanes immediately east of where it splits from I-40, then drops to 4 lanes. So that merge would be unaffected.

Although more traffic would be able to reach the merge with I-40 at a faster rate, since the 4-lane section currently constrains it.
There's about 1.2 miles of 3 lane westbound on I-85 before the I-40 lanes come in, so traffic would likely disperse across all the lanes by that point.

Traffic would be dispersed across all 3 lanes, but there's no exits in between so it would still just be the same volume that was contained in the 2 lanes. Extending a third lane back to the Durham Fwy would allow three *full* lanes of traffic to hit the I-40 merge at once, and likewise for I-40 if it was widened.

sprjus4

^ I-40 is being widened, but I believe it will still drop to 2 lanes at the flyover.

CoreySamson

Just drove I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis yesterday and it is so much worse than I remembered. There were several mile-long slowdowns simply because of the overall truck volume. The merge down to one lane approaching the I-55 multiplex was particularly bad in that regard. There had to be more trucks than cars at certain points. And I got stuck for over an hour behind what I assume was a huge accident. The new 75 mph speed limit helps, though. Three lanes in each direction can't come quickly enough.
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

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Dirt Roads

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 09, 2022, 01:21:19 PM
^ I-85 is 6 lanes immediately east of where it splits from I-40, then drops to 4 lanes. So that merge would be unaffected.

Quote from: webny99 on December 09, 2022, 01:32:27 PM
Although more traffic would be able to reach the merge with I-40 at a faster rate, since the 4-lane section currently constrains it.

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 09, 2022, 01:38:54 PM
There's about 1.2 miles of 3 lane westbound on I-85 before the I-40 lanes come in, so traffic would likely disperse across all the lanes by that point.

Quote from: webny99 on December 09, 2022, 01:55:45 PM
Traffic would be dispersed across all 3 lanes, but there's no exits in between so it would still just be the same volume that was contained in the 2 lanes. Extending a third lane back to the Durham Fwy would allow three *full* lanes of traffic to hit the I-40 merge at once, and likewise for I-40 if it was widened.

There's seldom any trouble on I-85 or I-40 heading towards The Spine, as both Interstates are coming off the summit of Occonechee Mountain and flattening out onto the Piedmont.  It's less than a 100-foot drop in elevation, but enough to relieve the pain of trucks struggling to make the other upgrades coming this way.

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 09, 2022, 02:00:46 PM
^ I-40 is being widened, but I believe it will still drop to 2 lanes at the flyover.

Relatively soon, the merge will drop from three lanes heading [westbound] on both I-85 and I-40 onto the four lanes of The Spine, so it makes sense to start dropping them somewhere before you actually hit the merge.  The problem is that travellers already have a habit of trying to pass on the right side as locals start to line up in the left lane to try to access the [fast lanes] of I-85.  I predict that this will be a madhouse after the widening of I-40 is completed, because then there will be [two right lanes] for the speedsters to whiz around the folks staging in the left lane.

webny99

Looking at the existing merges, they seem to all be on the right, but wouldn't it make sense to have the lane drop on the left (especially if it's a through lane ending, as will be the case on I-40)?

Dirt Roads

Quote from: webny99 on December 09, 2022, 10:12:32 PM
Looking at the existing merges, they seem to all be on the right, but wouldn't it make sense to have the lane drop on the left (especially if it's a through lane ending, as will be the case on I-40)?

Not sure.  The lane drop at US-15/501 (Exit 270) on I-40 [northbound] approaching the Orange County line was on the left until about a year ago.  That one was compounded by the onramp from US-15/501 ending about the same location.  In this case, you had folks passing in both the left lane and the on-ramp acceleration lane to try to get past the slower traffic in the two continuation lanes of I-40 (you also had most of the locals lining up into the center lane prior to the lane drop).  The new arrangement has the right lane as an Exit Only onto the US-15/501 exit ramp.  This does work much better.

D-Dey65

Okay, what about I-85 between Durham and Petersburg, if that hasn't already been covered? How would you deal with the interchange with I-95?

Plus, with all the talk about I-10 being widened in Mississippi, what about Alabama and the rest of Florida?

sprjus4

#658
^ I'm not exactly sure of the peak weekend situation, but I-85 is adequate between Petersburg and Durham I believe.

With the exception of a few mile stretches of highway between Durham and the Virginia state line, the highway carries around or less than 30,000 AADT depending on the area. In Virginia, it carries under 30,000 AADT.

I don't see any needs to widen the highway at any point.

Petersburg itself is a different situation and that interchange.

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 10, 2022, 01:16:13 PM
Okay, what about I-85 between Durham and Petersburg, if that hasn't already been covered? How would you deal with the interchange with I-95?

Plus, with all the talk about I-10 being widened in Mississippi, what about Alabama and the rest of Florida?

I suppose I-85 will need to be widened at some point given the significant growth along its corridor. The section from Durham to Petersburg seems to be the most rural, at least for now.

In Alabama, I-10 could be widened east of Mobile to the Florida border.

In Florida, I-10 is already six lanes in parts of Pensacola and Tallahassee. I'm sure the population of North Florida has grown since I was last there, but I'm not sure if it needs to be widened as a rule outside of urban/exurban areas.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 10, 2022, 01:16:13 PM
Okay, what about I-85 between Durham and Petersburg, if that hasn't already been covered? How would you deal with the interchange with I-95?

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 10, 2022, 01:29:00 PM
^ I'm not exactly sure of the peak weekend situation, but I-85 is adequate between Petersburg and Durham I believe.

The new I-885 is changing a lot of the roadway dynamics in the Triangle.  It wouldn't surprise me that by this time next year, there will be real need to widen I-85 from Durham -to- Oxford, which would require additional lanes over the twin bridges at Falls Lake.  We might be saying the same thing on US-64 (Future I-87) and US-264 (Future I-587) between Knightdale and Rocky Mount//Wilson.  All of which makes me wonder if it is cheating to include this rapidly growing area under "Rural Freeways" (including Orange County on this side).

webny99

Well, shame on me for not realizing how new the East End Connector freeway is. I could definitely see that changing things and its impact may not be fully realized yet. I-885/NC 147 heading south from Durham to I-40 still being 4 lanes is also surprising to me.

As for "rural freeways", we've been lenient in this thread with including anything that would qualify as suburban. Especially in fast growing areas, there are corridors that are quickly becoming developed so they may not feel rural now as they once were, but we definitely still want to include them. We're mostly just excluding urban freeways as those tend to have less long-distance traffic and various other physical/ROW constraints to widening.

MikieTimT

Quote from: CoreySamson on December 09, 2022, 02:43:15 PM
Just drove I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis yesterday and it is so much worse than I remembered. There were several mile-long slowdowns simply because of the overall truck volume. The merge down to one lane approaching the I-55 multiplex was particularly bad in that regard. There had to be more trucks than cars at certain points. And I got stuck for over an hour behind what I assume was a huge accident. The new 75 mph speed limit helps, though. Three lanes in each direction can't come quickly enough.

2021 AADT for that entire stretch shows that 57-58% of the traffic between LR and Memphis is trucks even in the rural segments.  You didn't imagine it.  It's that bad.

webny99

Quote from: MikieTimT on December 12, 2022, 02:06:42 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 09, 2022, 02:43:15 PM
Just drove I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis yesterday and it is so much worse than I remembered. There were several mile-long slowdowns simply because of the overall truck volume. The merge down to one lane approaching the I-55 multiplex was particularly bad in that regard. There had to be more trucks than cars at certain points. And I got stuck for over an hour behind what I assume was a huge accident. The new 75 mph speed limit helps, though. Three lanes in each direction can't come quickly enough.

2021 AADT for that entire stretch shows that 57-58% of the traffic between LR and Memphis is trucks even in the rural segments.  You didn't imagine it.  It's that bad.

My baseline expectation would be that the rural segments would have the highest truck percentage so that makes sense. With that kind of truck volumes I can see 6-lanes being needed regardless, but what are the overall AADT volumes?

CoreySamson

Quote from: webny99 on December 12, 2022, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on December 12, 2022, 02:06:42 PM
Quote from: CoreySamson on December 09, 2022, 02:43:15 PM
Just drove I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis yesterday and it is so much worse than I remembered. There were several mile-long slowdowns simply because of the overall truck volume. The merge down to one lane approaching the I-55 multiplex was particularly bad in that regard. There had to be more trucks than cars at certain points. And I got stuck for over an hour behind what I assume was a huge accident. The new 75 mph speed limit helps, though. Three lanes in each direction can't come quickly enough.

2021 AADT for that entire stretch shows that 57-58% of the traffic between LR and Memphis is trucks even in the rural segments.  You didn't imagine it.  It's that bad.

My baseline expectation would be that the rural segments would have the highest truck percentage so that makes sense. With that kind of truck volumes I can see 6-lanes being needed regardless, but what are the overall AADT volumes?
I believe I've seen volume figures of 38k AADT for that stretch of road elsewhere in this thread, but otherwise, not sure.
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

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webny99

38k would be very similar to Rochester-Syracuse on the Thruway which has much lower truck volumes, so I would certainly say it's warranted. I believe I-30 heading west (southwest) out of Little Rock was also mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, browsing Street View just now I was surprised to see that I-40 heading west (north) out of Little Rock is already 6-lanes to Conway. I wouldn't imagine that 6-lanes is needed west of there given that most long haul traffic to Texas would be taking I-30, although I-40 is an important connector to NW AR and the Great Plains states.


SEWIGuy

Quote from: webny99 on December 12, 2022, 04:41:04 PM
38k would be very similar to Rochester-Syracuse on the Thruway which has much lower truck volumes, so I would certainly say it's warranted. I believe I-30 heading west (southwest) out of Little Rock was also mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, browsing Street View just now I was surprised to see that I-40 heading west (north) out of Little Rock is already 6-lanes to Conway. I wouldn't imagine that 6-lanes is needed west of there given that most long haul traffic to Texas would be taking I-30, although I-40 is an important connector to NW AR and the Great Plains states.


My guess is that it is six lanes because of daily commuter traffic.

MultiMillionMiler

I-80 in Nebraska between Lincoln and Grand Island.

sprjus4

Quote from: webny99 on December 12, 2022, 04:41:04 PM
Meanwhile, browsing Street View just now I was surprised to see that I-40 heading west (north) out of Little Rock is already 6-lanes to Conway. I wouldn't imagine that 6-lanes is needed west of there given that most long haul traffic to Texas would be taking I-30, although I-40 is an important connector to NW AR and the Great Plains states.
It's commuter / urban / local traffic between Conway and Little Rock.

As for I-40 East of Little Rock, that stretch certainly warrants six lanes all the way to Memphis. Think of I-81, but instead of 35-40% of the traffic being trucks, it's almost 60%.

Max Rockatansky


CoreySamson

Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 12, 2022, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 12, 2022, 04:41:04 PM
38k would be very similar to Rochester-Syracuse on the Thruway which has much lower truck volumes, so I would certainly say it's warranted. I believe I-30 heading west (southwest) out of Little Rock was also mentioned earlier.

Meanwhile, browsing Street View just now I was surprised to see that I-40 heading west (north) out of Little Rock is already 6-lanes to Conway. I wouldn't imagine that 6-lanes is needed west of there given that most long haul traffic to Texas would be taking I-30, although I-40 is an important connector to NW AR and the Great Plains states.

My guess is that it is six lanes because of daily commuter traffic.
I would agree. Traffic lightened up considerably on that section of I-40 west of Conway when I drove it last week.
Buc-ee's and QuikTrip fanboy. Clincher of FM roads. Proponent of the TX U-turn.

My Route Log
My Clinches

Now on mobrule and Travel Mapping!

roadman65

I think I-30 in Texas needs six lanes in rural spots between Dallas and Texarkana. I-10 too could be six laned from Houston to Beaumont for sure if they're not addressing it already.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

sprjus4

Quote from: roadman65 on December 12, 2022, 10:33:42 PM
I think I-30 in Texas needs six lanes in rural spots between Dallas and Texarkana. I-10 too could be six laned from Houston to Beaumont for sure if they're not addressing it already.
I believe current and ongoing construction will complete a six lane minimum interstate between Columbus, TX (75 miles west of Houston) and Lake Charles, LA.

MikieTimT

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 12, 2022, 09:56:50 PM
Quote from: MultiMillionMiler on December 12, 2022, 04:57:04 PM
I-80 in Nebraska between Lincoln and Grand Island.

No, they need 29,000 lanes.

I-80 is the most congested with truck traffic in the US, with I-5 and I-40 in southern California pretty close by.  Next would be the segment of I-40 between LR and West Memphis as both ends of that segment branch off to some pretty major trade areas.  This is according to the Estimated Average FAF Daily Volumes for Trucks on National Highway System 2017, which is the most recent map they have info for.

Avalanchez71

Quote from: CoreySamson on December 09, 2022, 02:43:15 PM
Just drove I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis yesterday and it is so much worse than I remembered. There were several mile-long slowdowns simply because of the overall truck volume. The merge down to one lane approaching the I-55 multiplex was particularly bad in that regard. There had to be more trucks than cars at certain points. And I got stuck for over an hour behind what I assume was a huge accident. The new 75 mph speed limit helps, though. Three lanes in each direction can't come quickly enough.

US 70 is a good alternative.



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