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Arroyo Seco Parkway and the early western terminus points of US 66

Started by Max Rockatansky, June 03, 2019, 12:04:28 AM

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Max Rockatansky

I'm presently working on the next Gribblenation blog which this time will be on the Arroyo Seco Parkway and early terminus points of US 66 in Los Angeles.  I'll be using the following two photo sets:

Original western terminus of US 66 in Los Angeles:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmDN8Uxr

Arroyo Seco Parkway:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmDNaQbv


So far what I'm finding in researching this topic is that at some point between late 1934/early 1935 that US 66 was truncated from 7th Street up Broadway to Sunset Boulevard to the new alignment of US 101.  What is certain from a Department of Public Works document is that US 66 was extended to Santa Monica at least by October of 1935.  These are the links (excluding the obvious David Rumsey maps) which I'm present using for information:

October 1935 Department of Public Works document showing US 66 extended to Santa Monica

http://libraryarchives.metro.net/DPGTL/Californiahighways/chpw_1935_oct.pdf

1935 Goshua Highway Map showing US 66 ending at Sunset/Broadway

http://cartweb.geography.ua.edu/lizardtech/iserv/calcrgn?cat=North%20America%20and%20United%20States&item=States/California/California1935d.sid&wid=1000&hei=900&props=item(Name,Description),cat(Name,Description)&style=simple/view-dhtml.xsl

Theroute66.com had a couple scans of early ACSC maps showing the locally maintained iterations of US 66 before the 1933 State Highway additions came into play.  What interests me is there appears to have been a very brief interim alignment of US 66 via Colorado, Eagle Rock, and San Fernando to reach the three completed North Figueroa Street Tunnels in 1935.  The Goshua Map above however doesn't agree at all with theroute66.com but rather suggests an interim route that used Solano Avenue:

https://www.theroute-66.com/los-angeles.html

The 1935 Division of Highways Map shows a slight variation of the Goshua Map which shows State Maintenance on Avenue 64 between Colorado and York Boulevard.  I am thinking that this is the true interim 1935 alignment of LRN 165/US 66:

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247303~5515362:City-of-Los-Angeles--East-Central-S?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%20division%20of%20highways%20los;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=2&trs=15


So with the above in mind here are the first five custom image drafts I made:

X1 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X2 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X3 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X4 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X5 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

Anyways, I figure this is going to be a week long project.  If anyone has any early highway documents or anything like ACSC map scans I'd really to add them to this.


mrsman

I imagine part of your inquiry would involve determining weather 66 was extended to Santa Monica prior to 66 migrating from Broadway to Figueroa.  I don't have anything definitive to add, but I know that we have discussed in other threads how the signage kept changing on a regular basis as new alignments kept coming up.  Remember that this was during the New deal when there was a lot of government-funded work available to to build highways and it seems like they they certainly took advantage of that in California.

As far as the alignment along eagle Rock boulevard that was definitely temporary.  It seems very odd to me that a temporary alignments done only for the purposes of allowing for construction, would be signed as the regular route and not simply as a detour 66.

Nexus 5X


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mrsman on June 03, 2019, 08:19:04 AM
I imagine part of your inquiry would involve determining weather 66 was extended to Santa Monica prior to 66 migrating from Broadway to Figueroa.  I don't have anything definitive to add, but I know that we have discussed in other threads how the signage kept changing on a regular basis as new alignments kept coming up.  Remember that this was during the New deal when there was a lot of government-funded work available to to build highways and it seems like they they certainly took advantage of that in California.

As far as the alignment along eagle Rock boulevard that was definitely temporary.  It seems very odd to me that a temporary alignments done only for the purposes of allowing for construction, would be signed as the regular route and not simply as a detour 66.

Nexus 5X

What I found with the Bay Area was that there was similar oddities, especially before the State bought in big with highway maintenance in cities circa 1933.  Another factor that makes things odd is that the ACSC would have been signing the highways at the time which would have made their maps presumptively more reliable prior to 1933.  Some of 66 on the 1930 State Highway Map as an example definitely would have not been on State Maintained Highways in places.  A similar example would have been early US 101 in San Francisco being maintained by the City and LRN 2 beginning at the southern city line. 

mrsman

Another thought with regards to the Western extension of us 66 to Santa Monica.  it is very likely at the powers-that-be wanted to terminate us routes and other us routes.  So all of the Cross country us routes would terminate at US 101 and go no further west.  However, once the coastal highway became a US route as well it was easier to extend us 66 all the way to Santa Monica.  I wonder if there's any correlation between CA 3 becoming alt US 101 and the extension of us 66 to Santa Monica.

Nexus 5X


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: mrsman on June 03, 2019, 07:50:19 PM
Another thought with regards to the Western extension of us 66 to Santa Monica.  it is very likely at the powers-that-be wanted to terminate us routes and other us routes.  So all of the Cross country us routes would terminate at US 101 and go no further west.  However, once the coastal highway became a US route as well it was easier to extend us 66 all the way to Santa Monica.  I wonder if there's any correlation between CA 3 becoming alt US 101 and the extension of us 66 to Santa Monica.

Nexus 5X

It would seem that was the case since 66 to Santa Monica and 101A were announced at the same time on the 1935 Public Works Document that you posted on the other thread.  Interestingly the same rule didn't apply to US 466 which ended at CA 1. 

Mapmikey

Quote from: mrsman on June 03, 2019, 07:50:19 PM
Another thought with regards to the Western extension of us 66 to Santa Monica.  it is very likely at the powers-that-be wanted to terminate us routes and other us routes.  So all of the Cross country us routes would terminate at US 101 and go no further west.  However, once the coastal highway became a US route as well it was easier to extend us 66 all the way to Santa Monica.  I wonder if there's any correlation between CA 3 becoming alt US 101 and the extension of us 66 to Santa Monica.

Nexus 5X



The Oct 1935 Calif Hwys Magazine article citation also has CA 3 becoming US 101 ALT at the same time.

Here are three photos of Sunset and Figueroa from 12/17/1935:
NE corner - https://lacityhistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/0B265B69-CAC5-46CD-93B1-930094702120
SW corner - https://lacityhistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/9C19B67B-CB74-436A-AB31-609729572468
NW corner - https://lacityhistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/22DEEFB0-9486-40C1-85F0-506510395226

Shows CA 11 and at least 2 US routes meet here.  Would also make sense to see (I think...)  just 2 US shields if US 66 still ended there.  Because the intersection is not N-S-E-W, I don't know for sure which corner is NE etc.  If the SW corner gas station is the one with a sole CA 11 shield, then the NW gas station can be showing US 101 double arrow and US 99 left arrow?  However, it appears in the NE photo there are two US route reassurance shields where there should only be 1?  Are those a 66 and 101 shield?

sparker

^^^^^^^^
If it's the NE corner, then the two partially obscured shields shown on the left would be US 66 and US 99; US 6 wasn't commissioned into L.A. until the end of 1937.  The shield assembly on NB US 101 with the "bear spade" at the top is likely showing SSR 11 as the crossing route, US 99 turning right, and US 66 going right and forward.  Since this picture was taken only 2 weeks before the end of 1935, it's probably reasonably safe to assume that the extension of US 66 to Santa Monica had already taken place, and that US 99 had been by that time rerouted through the tunnels onto Figueroa. 

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: sparker on June 03, 2019, 09:07:25 PM
^^^^^^^^
If it's the NE corner, then the two partially obscured shields shown on the left would be US 66 and US 99; US 6 wasn't commissioned into L.A. until the end of 1937.  The shield assembly on NB US 101 with the "bear spade" at the top is likely showing SSR 11 as the crossing route, US 99 turning right, and US 66 going right and forward.  Since this picture was taken only 2 weeks before the end of 1935, it's probably reasonably safe to assume that the extension of US 66 to Santa Monica had already taken place, and that US 99 had been by that time rerouted through the tunnels onto Figueroa.

Begs the question, when was the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel open to traffic?  Even the 1936 State Highway Map City Insert didn't have the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel as open when published.  The signage could have been preemptively installed but that would still put US 66/99 temporarily still meeting 101/Sunset via Broadway. 

sparker

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2019, 12:04:28 AM
The 1935 Division of Highways Map shows a slight variation of the Goshua Map which shows State Maintenance on Avenue 64 between Colorado and York Boulevard.  I am thinking that this is the true interim 1935 alignment of LRN 165/US 66:

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247303~5515362:City-of-Los-Angeles--East-Central-S?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:california%20division%20of%20highways%20los;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=2&trs=15

This appears to be one of the more definitive maps of routings in central/east-central L.A. -- assuming that the streets depicted in red reflect state maintenance.  It actually answers a number of questions I've had over the years about interim routings, precise routings -- and even holds more than a few surprises and/or clarifications to previous information.  Among the oddities noted are:

(1) What is obviously the original west end -- pre the extension of the Ramona Parkway -- of LRN 26, which heads over the Monterey Park hill on what was originally Garvey but is now Monterey Park Blvd. before turning west on Brooklyn Ave. to a terminus at US 101/LRN 2 at the tri-corner of Pleasant, Brooklyn, and Macy St.   If the map depicts the situation mid-1935, that clears up the path of US 99 up until later that year:  down Soto (from Marengo) to Brooklyn, then east toward Garvey and the San Gabriel Valley.  As a side note, Ramona Blvd. (functionally the predecessor of the parkway, which was laid out next to the PE San Bernardino line) was shown on what is now City Terrace, a few blocks south of the eventual parkway alignment (today's I-10).  As an aside, that route, including the section of Brooklyn between Soto (where US 99 would have originally turned north) and Pleasant (US 101) would have also hosted US 60; from what I've been able to gather, US 70 didn't make an appearance prior to the shift of LRN 26 to the Ramona Parkway.

(2)  LRN 4/US 99 until 1935 -- on Workman Ave., a block east of Daly St. in Lincoln Heights.  This was obviously a temporary route until Daly could be expanded to accommodate through US 99 traffic.  Ironically, by the time that was done, it had been decided to reroute US 99 through the Figueroa Tunnels to the Civic Center -- so it's likely that Daly St. only hosted US 99 traffic briefly if at all. 

(3) Re the speculation, bolstered by this map, that Avenue 64 was an interim routing of LRN 165/US 66/SSR 11.  That is likely, seeing as how the northernmost section of LRN 165 -- and a stand-alone segment of SSR 11 along Linda Vista Ave. west of the Arroyo Seco -- was specifically cited in the LRN 165 official description -- there had to be a way to get up to Colorado Blvd. until Figueroa was expanded to accommodate US 66 traffic (likely in a similar fashion to Daly St.), so Avenue 64 (originally Garvanza Ave.) filled the bill.  It's still a pretty efficient street even today -- a very wide 2 lanes for much of its length. 

(4) Not part of the US 66 lore, but up in Glendale, it looks as if Verdugo Road was the original state-maintained street (LRN 61/SSR 2) connecting Glendale with La Canada; whereas Canada Blvd., parallel and to the west, eventually assumed that particular mantle, hosting the state highway at least after WWII (it's almost straight as an arrow, while Verdugo winds around along the east side of the Verdugo Valley. 

There are other tidbits to be seen on the map, such as state maintenance of Indiana Ave. (as LRN 166) as far north as 4th Street (LRN 172, shown as complete but gravel out to San Gabriel Blvd.) -- and San Gabriel Blvd. as the original alignment of LRN 168/SSR 19 before Rosemead Blvd. was completed through the Whittier Narrows. 

One thing is certain -- before the full completion of both the Figueroa tunnels and the Ramona Parkway, the state alignments (as well as the ACSC routings before them) rarely stayed in one place for more than a couple of years before some form of route revision occurred.   Nice find, Max!  :spin:

Mapmikey

Quote from: sparker on June 03, 2019, 09:07:25 PM
^^^^^^^^
If it's the NE corner, then the two partially obscured shields shown on the left would be US 66 and US 99; US 6 wasn't commissioned into L.A. until the end of 1937.  The shield assembly on NB US 101 with the "bear spade" at the top is likely showing SSR 11 as the crossing route, US 99 turning right, and US 66 going right and forward.  Since this picture was taken only 2 weeks before the end of 1935, it's probably reasonably safe to assume that the extension of US 66 to Santa Monica had already taken place, and that US 99 had been by that time rerouted through the tunnels onto Figueroa. 

I was able to verify this morning using a 1948 Historic Aerial that the corners are oriented as I speculated.  There is a 4th picture also of the SW corner but shows the CA 11 shield explicitly - https://lacityhistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/2937A4BE-8629-4CBE-B55F-059846526510

The City of Los Angeles council minutes are theorectically on-line but when I do searches it will only pull up the first page of that meeting's minutes (on two different computers).  Too bad...might be just like San Diego's city business which often acknowledged state highway changes.

Here is the link if anyone else wants to try, use the Council Minutes Archive tab - http://clkrep.lacity.org/oldcfidocs/

It appears that the LA archives in person has boxes of photos that would probably show a lot of what is being worked out in this thread...

mrsman

Quote from: Mapmikey on June 04, 2019, 08:32:47 AM
Quote from: sparker on June 03, 2019, 09:07:25 PM
^^^^^^^^
If it's the NE corner, then the two partially obscured shields shown on the left would be US 66 and US 99; US 6 wasn't commissioned into L.A. until the end of 1937.  The shield assembly on NB US 101 with the "bear spade" at the top is likely showing SSR 11 as the crossing route, US 99 turning right, and US 66 going right and forward.  Since this picture was taken only 2 weeks before the end of 1935, it's probably reasonably safe to assume that the extension of US 66 to Santa Monica had already taken place, and that US 99 had been by that time rerouted through the tunnels onto Figueroa. 

I was able to verify this morning using a 1948 Historic Aerial that the corners are oriented as I speculated.  There is a 4th picture also of the SW corner but shows the CA 11 shield explicitly - https://lacityhistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/2937A4BE-8629-4CBE-B55F-059846526510



I'm a little late chiming in, but it is plainly obvious that Figueroa is considered the N-S street and Sunset the E-W street, even though the streets are not angled in the perfect compass direction.  First, both streets do eventually change into compass direction around where they would hit the "Hoover Street" line, which was once the old boundary between the city of Los Angeles and the nearby ranchos.  (Sunset changes to compass about 1/4 mile west of Hoover at the Sunset/Hollywood/Virgil/Hillhurst/Sunset Dr. mega-intersection, Figueroa changes to compass as it crosses Exposition near USC - the Hoover line can be thought to extend through the USC campus and hit right where Figueroa bends.)  Second, the addresses on Sunset are E-W and the addresses on Figueroa are N-S.  Third, nearly all parallel streets make the same bend as they cross Hoover or Exposition.

The tricky part, though, are the highways that ran on the streets.  Old US 101 is N-S, but runs on largely E-W streets for a lot of the L.A. area (Ventura Blvd, Sunset, Whittier).  Old US 6 is E-W and is direction is all jumbled up throughout the state.  Old US 66 is E-W and also ends up on N-S streets on this last stretch between LA and Pasadena.  CA 11 was N-S and it finds itself on Figueroa which is N-S.

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone familiar with L.A. who would consider Sunset N-S and Figueroa E-W despite the angle at the intersection.

Max Rockatansky

Worked up a custom image off the 1935 Division of Highways Map.  I labeled the LRNs and the likely two temporary routes of US 66:

X6 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

sparker

^^^^^^^^^^^
That basic scenario actually makes sense; after 7-8 years of signage on streets over which the Division of Highways had no physical control, placing even temporary routes on state-maintained facilities was probably deemed a step forward in the "baby steps" days of the state network -- the state could specify such things as clearances, access points, signal timing -- which otherwise would have been out of their hands and, operations-wise, at the whim of the various cities through which the unadopted routes ran.  It's probably also true that in the process of routing US 66 between downtown L.A. and Pasadena they tried out the LRN 61/162/161 combination along Verdugo, Eagle Rock, and Colorado boulevards prior to the adoption of LRN 165 up Figueroa and Garvanza (aka Ave. 64) but found it more than a little out of the way and inefficient as a through facility; 165, once on the books, likely was well-received by through traffic -- but less so by the relatively wealthy folks (even by Depression standards) living along Garvanza (then as now a prime residential neighborhood); once the north end of Figueroa was up to standards and LRN 165/US 66 rerouted over it, its status as the principal commercial corridor between the two cities was cemented, lasting for a bit over 40 years until the Glendale Freeway (CA 2)/Ventura Freeway (CA 134) combination was opened in 1976 -- due to the truck restrictions on the Arroyo Seco Parkway/Pasadena Freeway. 

Getting from central L.A. to Pasadena has never been a straightforward process -- prior to the state highway network's inception circa 1926, the Santa Fe main passenger line east of L.A. -- the route of all their "name" trains (the Chief, El Capitan, and later the Super Chief) snaked up through Lincoln Heights, Highland Park, crossed the Arroyo Seco on a high trestle, and scooted through South Pasadena's business district en route to Pasadena and thence east more or less paralleling US 66 out to San Bernardino.  My grandfather lived a couple of blocks from the tracks in Highland Park; it was always intriguing to me as a kid to see the great silver Santa Fe trains trundling along at about 20-25 mph through the N.E. L.A. neighborhoods -- and then through back yards in Pasadena (they didn't get up to anywhere near "track speed" until out around Monrovia).  A lot of very narrow ROW coupled with grade crossings every few hundred yards didn't make for terribly exciting train travel -- that was reserved for Cajon Pass and beyond!  So convoluted and "head-scratching" alignments in that neck of the woods was par for the course for any mode of ground travel due to both local topology and the way the area developed over the years. 

Max Rockatansky

Something I've noted while researching these maps which I never really looked into too closely before was US 99 on LRN 9.  The original alignment of US 99 clearly is seen bypassing Los Angeles via LRN 9 and following it multiplexed with US 66 from Pasadena east to San Bernardino.  What I find interesting is that it gives much more weight historically to the surface alignment of CA 118 and completely fits in with the motif of US 99 somehow being a less major Route than US 101.  The early route of 99 is intriguing enough that probably merits inclusion in it's own blog whenever I get to 118. 

sparker

^^^^^^^^^^
What was never crystal-clear -- even after scouring early CH&PW volumes -- was the timeline regarding the decision to move US 99 away from its original planned multiplex with US 66 between San Bernardino and Pasadena and down to the more direct LRN 26 route into central L.A. via Pomona and El Monte, which seemed to have been developed piece by piece until a full corridor.  I don't recall seeing any pictures showing the two US routes signed together along that stretch; since signage had been essentially "farmed out" to ACSC during those early years, it's possible only US 66 got actual shields. 

The fact that US 99 was originally relegated to what was essentially a secondary regional role -- going to Pasadena rather than downtown L.A. -- further enhances the role of US 101 as the "glamour" route, traversing downtown L.A., Hollywood, and the historic Cahuenga Pass.  And once out in the (San Fernando) Valley, US 101 utilized Ventura Blvd., long the site of "high-end" area development; US 99, whether on Foothill Blvd. or San Fernando Road, pierced the industrial zone in the eastern part of the valley -- hardly conducive to tourist or recreational use!  Without overstating the obvious, CA's section of US 101 went through the "prettier" parts of the state, echoed in miniature in its L.A. mileage, while US 99 was by comparison the "workhorse" route, connecting L.A. to the inland portions of CA that supplied more revenue than physical beauty. 

At least after 1935 all the "majors" in the L.A. area were brought together in a single point at Sunset & Figueroa (likely acceding to L.A. city "booster" elements) -- in much the same way that US 40, 50, and 99 were paraded right by the State Capitol grounds farther north in Sacramento.  Civic/state pride seemed to take precedence at that point (likely prompted by attempts to break out of Depression-era civic lethargy) over route efficiency -- although before long the latter re-emerged with the advent of the freeways!

NE2

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2019, 09:20:19 PM
Begs the question, when was the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel open to traffic?  Even the 1936 State Highway Map City Insert didn't have the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel as open when published.  The signage could have been preemptively installed but that would still put US 66/99 temporarily still meeting 101/Sunset via Broadway. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arroyo_Seco_Parkway#Construction
"The first three, between Solano Avenue and the river, opened in late 1931,[17] and the fourth opened in mid-1936,[18] completing the extension of Figueroa Street to Riverside Drive."
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: NE2 on June 05, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2019, 09:20:19 PM
Begs the question, when was the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel open to traffic?  Even the 1936 State Highway Map City Insert didn't have the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel as open when published.  The signage could have been preemptively installed but that would still put US 66/99 temporarily still meeting 101/Sunset via Broadway. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arroyo_Seco_Parkway#Construction
"The first three, between Solano Avenue and the river, opened in late 1931,[17] and the fourth opened in mid-1936,[18] completing the extension of Figueroa Street to Riverside Drive."

What's throwing me off is the article dedicated to the tunnels exclusively says 1935.  Bridgehunter even say contradicting 1935/1936 opening dates.  Suffice to say it's like a safe assumption mid-1936 is correct given the map from said year shows the fourth tunnel still under construction. I still haven't found a public works document that backs up mid-1936 clearly which is what I'd like to find. 

Mapmikey

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 05, 2019, 02:00:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 05, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2019, 09:20:19 PM
Begs the question, when was the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel open to traffic?  Even the 1936 State Highway Map City Insert didn't have the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel as open when published.  The signage could have been preemptively installed but that would still put US 66/99 temporarily still meeting 101/Sunset via Broadway. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arroyo_Seco_Parkway#Construction
"The first three, between Solano Avenue and the river, opened in late 1931,[17] and the fourth opened in mid-1936,[18] completing the extension of Figueroa Street to Riverside Drive."

What's throwing me off is the article dedicated to the tunnels exclusively says 1935.  Bridgehunter even say contradicting 1935/1936 opening dates.  Suffice to say it's like a safe assumption mid-1936 is correct given the map from said year shows the fourth tunnel still under construction. I still haven't found a public works document that backs up mid-1936 clearly which is what I'd like to find. 

August 4, 1936 - 2nd in list at https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd=1&query=figueroa+tunnel+opens&dr_year=1936-1936&t=4312

1931 tunnels opened October 22 - 16th in list at https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd=1&query=figueroa+tunnel+opens&dr_year=1931-1931&offset=12&t=4312

edited to add 1931 opening date

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Mapmikey on June 05, 2019, 02:14:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 05, 2019, 02:00:01 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 05, 2019, 01:41:41 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 03, 2019, 09:20:19 PM
Begs the question, when was the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel open to traffic?  Even the 1936 State Highway Map City Insert didn't have the fourth Figueroa Street Tunnel as open when published.  The signage could have been preemptively installed but that would still put US 66/99 temporarily still meeting 101/Sunset via Broadway. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arroyo_Seco_Parkway#Construction
"The first three, between Solano Avenue and the river, opened in late 1931,[17] and the fourth opened in mid-1936,[18] completing the extension of Figueroa Street to Riverside Drive."

What's throwing me off is the article dedicated to the tunnels exclusively says 1935.  Bridgehunter even say contradicting 1935/1936 opening dates.  Suffice to say it's like a safe assumption mid-1936 is correct given the map from said year shows the fourth tunnel still under construction. I still haven't found a public works document that backs up mid-1936 clearly which is what I'd like to find. 

August 4, 1936 - 2nd in list at https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd=1&query=figueroa+tunnel+opens&dr_year=1936-1936&t=4312

1931 tunnels opened October 22 - 16th in list at https://www.newspapers.com/search/#lnd=1&query=figueroa+tunnel+opens&dr_year=1931-1931&offset=12&t=4312

edited to add 1931 opening date

Exactly what I was looking for, thanks I'll make sure it's added. 

sparker

^^^^^^^^^
If that is indeed the case -- and US 66 remained on Broadway at Sunset until mid-1936, then the signage depicted in the photographs of the corner gas stations (NE/NW corners) would likely be quite different:

NE corner (sign assembly WB Sunset):  US 66/US 101 straight forward, SSR 11 left (south) turn onto Figueroa.
NW corner (sign assembly SB Figueroa, pre-signed route here):  US 66/US 101 crossing, SSR 11 left and straight forward.  Of course, this is presuming the information about the date of the US 66 Santa Monica extension was accurate and signage had already occurred.

However -- that doesn't account for the two shields posted on NB Figueroa -- unless there was an interim connection over to North Broadway between that point and the approach to the unfinished fourth tunnel (or the shields, the front of which are cut off by the edge of the photograph, were covered until the tunnel's completion some six months from the date of the photographs).  This deserves further exploration.

Max Rockatansky

Finished up the last map image snips.  About all I can think to do now before typing the blog up is maybe dig for some more photos showing the interchange of Figueroa and Sunset?  Its going to be a long weekend out in Monterey and Salinas so I'll have some digging around time.

X7A by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X8 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X9 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X10 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X11 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X12 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X13 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X14 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X15 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr

X16 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr


TheStranger

One of the more subtle interesting factoids from those maps: the infamous 710 extension (at the time Route 15) through South Pasadena to at least the Arroyo Seco Parkway was proposed as early as 1951!!!

Also, while Route 11 used the Figueroa corridor dating back to 1934 and was on the Harbor Freeway and the southern part of the Arroyo Seco Parkway from the very start, it seems like the portion of the parkway east of today's Avenue 26 exit was built as US 66 and only was part of 11 from 1964 to 1981.

Pipe dream of mine that is not remotely realistic: codifying all of the Harbor Freeway as I-110 (which is only not the case in signage for the northbound section past Staples Center) and the parkway as Historic US 66 for that reason
Chris Sampang

mrsman

Quote from: TheStranger on June 07, 2019, 01:07:43 AM
One of the more subtle interesting factoids from those maps: the infamous 710 extension (at the time Route 15) through South Pasadena to at least the Arroyo Seco Parkway was proposed as early as 1951!!!

Also, while Route 11 used the Figueroa corridor dating back to 1934 and was on the Harbor Freeway and the southern part of the Arroyo Seco Parkway from the very start, it seems like the portion of the parkway east of today's Avenue 26 exit was built as US 66 and only was part of 11 from 1964 to 1981.

Pipe dream of mine that is not remotely realistic: codifying all of the Harbor Freeway as I-110 (which is only not the case in signage for the northbound section past Staples Center) and the parkway as Historic US 66 for that reason

If it were indeed the case that CA 11 was along Figueroa and not Arroyo Seco, I believe that there are two reasons for this.  One, was the truck restrictions on the Arroyo Seco.  Sparker had mentioned that for a while trucks were allowed on the section of freeway between US 101 and I-5, but then had to get off onto I-5 or Figueroa.  Signing CA-11 this way would maintain signage over the truck route to Pasadena utilizing the left exit onto North Figueroa. 

Probably the main reason for keeping CA  11 onto North Figueroa was to make a direct connection to Linda Vista.  After 1964, they saw there was no need for both 118 and 11 going NW from Pasadena, so 11 was rerouted onto the Parkway.

I find it interesting having a state highway with such significant truck restrictions.  I know many states would not route state highway numbers over parkways that restrict trucks.

It is interesting that you mention US 66 along the parkway.  While I generally agree with the 1964 renumbering as a way of simplification, I do feel bad that certain US routes weren't kept.  I could see keeping US 99 until Wheeler Ridge, keeping all of US 395 to San Diego, routing US 60 along the Pomona Fwy, and keeping US 66 to at least Pasadena (if not all the way to the 4-level).   

With all the interest in 66, I believe there should be signage showing one historic routing, signed with US cutout shields.  Only one routing should be highlighted, so that it is not too hard to navigate.  The signs should also indicate "local maintenance" since we know that they remove state highway markers on roads that have been decommissioned.  I think the 1938 routing would be best, keeping it off freeways (except the section of the Figueroa tunnels), but also keeping it off the old routings along Broadway.  Colorado-Figueroa-110 fwy-figueroa-sunset-santa monica-Lincoln.

TheStranger

Quote from: mrsman on June 07, 2019, 02:06:43 AM


If it were indeed the case that CA 11 was along Figueroa and not Arroyo Seco, I believe that there are two reasons for this.  One, was the truck restrictions on the Arroyo Seco.  Sparker had mentioned that for a while trucks were allowed on the section of freeway between US 101 and I-5, but then had to get off onto I-5 or Figueroa.  Signing CA-11 this way would maintain signage over the truck route to Pasadena utilizing the left exit onto North Figueroa.

The existence of Alternate US 66 primarily seems to have been for that purpose too, I'm surprised it wasn't called Truck US 66 really.
Chris Sampang

sparker

Quote from: TheStranger on June 07, 2019, 02:18:04 AM
Quote from: mrsman on June 07, 2019, 02:06:43 AM


If it were indeed the case that CA 11 was along Figueroa and not Arroyo Seco, I believe that there are two reasons for this.  One, was the truck restrictions on the Arroyo Seco.  Sparker had mentioned that for a while trucks were allowed on the section of freeway between US 101 and I-5, but then had to get off onto I-5 or Figueroa.  Signing CA-11 this way would maintain signage over the truck route to Pasadena utilizing the left exit onto North Figueroa.

The existence of Alternate US 66 primarily seems to have been for that purpose too, I'm surprised it wasn't called Truck US 66 really.

North Figueroa Street and Linda Vista Ave, both former LRN 165 & SSR 11, were retained after renumbering as CA 159.  The Figueroa section was relinquished circa 1977 after the completion of the CA 2 (Glendale) freeway which connected to CA 134 (which had been completed from Glendale into Pasadena in 1971), providing a through truck-appropriate route from central L.A. to Pasadena, obviating the need to retain Figueroa (which, along with the Linda Vista portion, had never received any CA 159 reassurance signage; it was a "silent" state-maintained facility).  The Linda Vista segment remained in the state highway network until the mid-90's; rumor has it that since it ran immediately west of the Rose Bowl, some influential parties wanted it maintained as a through route (although in reality little more than a 2-lane city street, albeit with concrete pavement!).  In any case, 1976-77 also marked the completion of I-210 through Pasadena, completing what's currently in use, freeway-wise, in the immediate area. 

Since the use of "Alternate" banners was widespread statewide pre-'64 (others included Alternate US 40 & Alternate US 101), it was likely considered appropriate in this situation as well.  The only other "banner" attached to US highways in CA -- at least those retaining state maintenance -- was the "Bypass" designation, used, of course, in relation to US 101 on the S.F. peninsula as well as, for a time, around the southeast side of Sacramento as Bypass US 50 (before LRN 98 was moved to the Elvas Freeway and the 29th/30th street one-way couplet as US 99E).  But there were no commercial-traffic restrictions along either of those bypass routes (the Sacramento facility was also clearly marked as one of that city's designated pre-freeway truck routes), so it would have been unlikely that the Arroyo Seco Parkway would have been designated as "Bypass US 66".   

And the Division of Highways wasn't going to go the Kansas City route and designate a "OPTIONAL US 66"!!!!! :colorful:



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