NASCAR

[NWI_Irish96]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

[Alps]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.

[Max Rockatansky]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.

The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year. 

[kenarmy]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.

The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.

I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.

[Max Rockatansky]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.

The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.

I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.

And that money is meaningless how?  You do know that the pit crew and shop workers are largely paid out of the actual race winnings?  They have every incentive to make as much money as possible even if the race team is out of the championship running.  The biggest difference between auto racing and most sports is that most of the participants (aside the drivers) aren't under lucrative paying contracts.

[kenarmy]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.

The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.

I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.

And that money is meaningless how?  You do know that the pit crew and shop workers are largely paid out of the actual race winnings?  They have every incentive to make as much money as possible even if the race team is out of the championship running.  The biggest difference between auto racing and most sports is that most of the participants (aside the drivers) aren't under lucrative paying contracts.

I'm not saying the money is meaningless, but you can get nice purses without winning. That's why the glorified start and park teams lose almost every race and are still around.

[Max Rockatansky]

The way they do the playoffs is a terrible idea. Everyone can still race, but only a few drivers get any benefit from it? Why would I drive a car and risk anything in a race I can't win even if I finish first? Do what golf does. Cut out a few people after the first couple of rounds, leave enough to still make a good race, but even as a non-fan I feel strongly about it.

If you're not a playoff driver and win a playoff race, you still get credit for winning a race. That's no different than the non-playoff system when drivers who were mathematically eliminated from winning the championship often won races.

Okay, but isn't it meaningless at that point? You're not in the playoff. You could win every playoff race and not be in the playoff. It's like the Pro Bowl.

The purse for winning is significantly higher than the rest of the finishing positions and it gets you into the All-Star race the next year.

I think it is meaningless as well because there are several other ways to get in the all-star race. And everybody gets a chance to get in it one way or another. Sure, it gets you higher on the all-time win list. But having wins like that aren't gonna get you in the hof before somebody with fewer wins with a championship.

And that money is meaningless how?  You do know that the pit crew and shop workers are largely paid out of the actual race winnings?  They have every incentive to make as much money as possible even if the race team is out of the championship running.  The biggest difference between auto racing and most sports is that most of the participants (aside the drivers) aren't under lucrative paying contracts.

I'm not saying the money is meaningless, but you can get nice purses without winning. That's why the glorified start and park teams lose almost every race and are still around.

Yes, but you're a competitive team and have a chance to still win then why wouldn't you?  How is that any different than the say the 8th place team in the points on a 1980s/1990s era season when they didn't have a realistic chance for the championship during late season?

Also, there have been drivers in NASCAR that have been very competitive that weren't exactly in for a full season and driving championship.  David Pearson would be the most prominent example of being in it just to win races for much of his career, Mark Martin was doing the same thing for much of the tail end of this his also. 

It might be just me but I much preferred when the point system awarded overall consistent performance and punished things like wrecking out.  Watching someone like Terry Labonte surgically take down his teammate Jeff Gordon in 1996 was a lot more exciting than a farce Chase format.  In the old system Jeff Gordon (who won a crap load of races in 1996) was punished for a lot of early season wrecks and Terry Labonte was rewarded by finishing in the Top 5-Top 10 almost every single week.  Under the new system it would have been a complete reversal.  The old point system was close to perfect and resulted in a true driving champion every year. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Well, I don't think anyone was predicting Michael McDowell was winning tonight...or the Penske cars taking each other out.

[zachary_amaryllis]

Well, I don't think anyone was predicting Michael McDowell was winning tonight...or the Penske cars taking each other out.

i think it is rather awesome that he won... i always like it when someone who's not one of the 'big names' wins these.

[zachary_amaryllis]

truex is gonna drive it like he stole it.

2017: nuggets sucked, avs sucked, Broncos sucked, Rockies sucked. truex brought the cup to denver that year and will always have my respect even if FRR is no more ...

welp... how'd that work out for him tonight...

's ok. he'll get his mojo back.

[Max Rockatansky]

Well, I don't think anyone was predicting Michael McDowell was winning tonight...or the Penske cars taking each other out.

i think it is rather awesome that he won... i always like it when someone who's not one of the 'big names' wins these.

I do too, and he was in it most of the night.  Really this is the kind of thing that really can only ever happen in Motorsports.  That said, I can't help but recall Texas in 2008:

For non-motorsports fans to put into context how big of an upset this was; it would be like Rutgers going to play Alabama at their home field in college football and somehow winning.  To see someone who has been traditionally a journeyman driver stabilize his career with his current team and put something together like this is pretty amazing.

[kenarmy]

Why is Derrike Cope still racing, he won this race over 30 years ago. And he ended up last today . I wanted Jamie Mcmurray to win he's underrated! I won't complain though because at least Penske didn't win.

[Max Rockatansky]

Why is Derrike Cope still racing, he won this race over 30 years ago. And he ended up last  . I wanted Jamie Mcmurray to win he's underrated! I won't complain though because at least Penske didn't win.

Why not with Derrick Cope?  He went through the qualifying session and the 150s like everyone else.  Drivers like Dave Marcis were making legit season runs at Cope's age until fairly recently, so I see no problem with this. 

[thspfc]

Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.

[SP Cook]

Listen to the confused, pointless, two minutes of commentary Fox presented because no ultra-safe race back to the caution/checkers was held.  Because of a caution in Turn 3, two miles from the finish line that should have been raced back to.

[Max Rockatansky]

Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.

How is NASCAR supposed to control something like rain?  Right now is the dry season in Florida, there is literally no better time to run a race in said state. 

[Max Rockatansky]

Speaking of that that almost six hour rain delay, I ended up watching Days of Thunder documentary.  That movie sure ended getting a lot better in time since it didn't use a single bit of CGI.  I much rather watch something like that over a Fast and the Furious movie.  Both have trash plot lines but at least the cars were really there in Days of Thunder. 

[thspfc]

Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.

How is NASCAR supposed to control something like rain?

They can't control the rain, but they can control the time at which their races start. When you start your races at 3:00 ET or whenever it was yesterday, if there's a rain delay (as you said, highly likely in Florida, and from the time I've spent there, it seems like it most often rains in the afternoon), you basically give yourself two choices: resume the next day and hope it doesn't rain then, or finish the race in the middle of the night when almost nobody will be watching. They could start the race at 1:00 ET. Then, if there's a 5-hour rain delay like yesterday, the race finishes around 10, rather than midnight. Of course, rain is not a real threat at most tracks. There will inevatibly be a couple rain delays every season at tracks you wouldn't expect, but at Daytona, you need to plan for the rain.

[hbelkins]

I've watched a lot of rain-delayed Daytona 500s over the years. The infamous Juan Montoya jet dryer crash happened at night.

[Max Rockatansky]

Another thing contributing to NASCAR's heavy decline: rain delays, such as yesterday. This is the second year in a row that the Daytona 500 has been delayed significantly. I'm not sure what time it finished, but I didn't watch stage 2 or stage 3. I don't think many people stayed up into the morning just to watch the predictable ending of a violent crash and Denny Hamlin winning, though the latter didn't happen this year.

How is NASCAR supposed to control something like rain?

They can't control the rain, but they can control the time at which their races start. When you start your races at 3:00 ET or whenever it was yesterday, if there's a rain delay (as you said, highly likely in Florida, and from the time I've spent there, it seems like it most often rains in the afternoon), you basically give yourself two choices: resume the next day and hope it doesn't rain then, or finish the race in the middle of the night when almost nobody will be watching. They could start the race at 1:00 ET. Then, if there's a 5-hour rain delay like yesterday, the race finishes around 10, rather than midnight. Of course, rain is not a real threat at most tracks. There will inevatibly be a couple rain delays every season at tracks you wouldn't expect, but at Daytona, you need to plan for the rain.

Daytona gets something like 2.7 inches of rain every February.  It's common but it isn't the 4 PM monsoon you get in a typical Florida summer.  I would imagine those TV partners are the ones who want the race to end under the lights.

[zachary_amaryllis]

I've watched a lot of rain-delayed Daytona 500s over the years. The infamous Juan Montoya jet dryer crash happened at night.

under caution, even.

[Max Rockatansky]

I've watched a lot of rain-delayed Daytona 500s over the years. The infamous Juan Montoya jet dryer crash happened at night.

under caution, even.

Yeah but did he hit the pace car?

[Henry]

Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.

[Max Rockatansky]

Even 20 years after Dale Earnhardt's death, the memory of that tragic ending at Daytona has never really faded. On the plus side, it gave NASCAR the opportunity to make its cars safer than ever, thus saving drivers like Ryan Newman from a similar fate.

There was a couple other deaths that happened around the same time.  The one that I really recall was Kenny Irwin in the summer of 2000.  It's kind of bizarre to think that things like the HANS device, open face helmets and letting drivers get away with things like modifying harnesses was allowed into this century.  Thankfully the COT didn't last too long, there aren't many fond memories I have of that spec car. 

[kenarmy]

Matt Kenseth is underrated. He has 2 Daytona wins, a championship, 39 wins, and he beat Dale Jr. for roty  . And last but definitely not least, he spun Joey Logano. nascar rarely mentions him but they are quick to bring up Dale Jr and Kurt Busch. I pray he doesn't continue to be one of those interim drivers and tarnish his legacy.