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Author Topic: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)  (Read 14177 times)

hwyfan

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #125 on: November 12, 2022, 07:39:50 PM »

I don't understand why the Gordie Howe Bridge - six lanes wide, is being constructed without a median barrier (whether adjustable or fixed) between the opposite directions of traffic.  I would think given the heavy traffic and winter road conditions, that would be a priority.
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #126 on: November 12, 2022, 11:53:22 PM »

I don't understand why the Gordie Howe Bridge - six lanes wide, is being constructed without a median barrier (whether adjustable or fixed) between the opposite directions of traffic.  I would think given the heavy traffic and winter road conditions, that would be a priority.
The Mackinac Bridge doesn't have one and I'd be a heck of a lot more worried about something happening on that bridge than the Gordie Howe Bridge.
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SSOWorld

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #127 on: November 13, 2022, 09:50:04 AM »

"Pay Fare Ahead"? Are they going to transport my car across the bridge for me, perhaps with me still sitting in it? If not, it's not a "fare." It's a "toll."

"Toll" is pronounced "fare" in Michigan.  Otherwise delicate sensibilities will be upset. :P

Maybe no longer.  "Toll" instead of "fare" is on the plans for new signs approaching the Mackinac Bridge and International Bridge in the Upper Peninsula.  (Previously posted in the "Interesting Signs" thread.)



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Scott O.

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SSOWorld

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2022, 09:51:28 AM »

"Pay Fare Ahead"? Are they going to transport my car across the bridge for me, perhaps with me still sitting in it? If not, it's not a "fare." It's a "toll."

"Toll" is pronounced "fare" in Michigan.  Otherwise delicate sensibilities will be upset. :P

Maybe no longer.  "Toll" instead of "fare" is on the plans for new signs approaching the Mackinac Bridge and International Bridge in the Upper Peninsula.  (Previously posted in the "Interesting Signs" thread.)



What - no "STRAIGHT THRU"?
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Scott O.

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As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
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skluth

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2022, 03:36:02 PM »

"Pay Fare Ahead"? Are they going to transport my car across the bridge for me, perhaps with me still sitting in it? If not, it's not a "fare." It's a "toll."

"Toll" is pronounced "fare" in Michigan.  Otherwise delicate sensibilities will be upset. :P

Maybe no longer.  "Toll" instead of "fare" is on the plans for new signs approaching the Mackinac Bridge and International Bridge in the Upper Peninsula.  (Previously posted in the "Interesting Signs" thread.)



What - no "STRAIGHT THRU"?
No no. The signs to Canada should read "AHEAD"!
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Lyon Wonder

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #130 on: November 13, 2022, 07:50:41 PM »

Will the Ambassador bridge still be open after 2024 since it's privately owned even though for all intents and purposes the Gordie Howe is its de-facto replacement?

Anybody think if the Ambassador gets demolished it'll be quickly imploded with explosives or be slowly torn down by being dismantled "piece by piece" like what they're currently doing with the old I-74 twin suspension bridges over the Mississippi River in the Quad Cities between IA and IL, a process that's expected to take about 18 months to complete that started last September?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 07:52:45 PM by Lyon Wonder »
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #131 on: November 13, 2022, 08:21:37 PM »

Will the Ambassador bridge still be open after 2024 since it's privately owned even though for all intents and purposes the Gordie Howe is its de-facto replacement?

Anybody think if the Ambassador gets demolished it'll be quickly imploded with explosives or be slowly torn down by being dismantled "piece by piece" like what they're currently doing with the old I-74 twin suspension bridges over the Mississippi River in the Quad Cities between IA and IL, a process that's expected to take about 18 months to complete that started last September?
I don't expect the Ambassador Bridge to make it another 10 years.
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JREwing78

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #132 on: November 13, 2022, 08:42:30 PM »

Will the Ambassador bridge still be open after 2024 since it's privately owned even though for all intents and purposes the Gordie Howe is its de-facto replacement?

The Moroun family has a considerable investment in the existing bridge and its property (including the duty-free stores and fuel pumps).

They haven't moved forward on building out the 2nd span, blaming the Canadians for not allowing them to keep the original span once the 2nd is completed. They also are prepared to keep lawyers busy extorting more money for its various Detroit properties taken for the Gordie Howe. https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2022/07/18/moroun-properties-bridge-canada-gordie-howe-international-bridge/7821846001/
(subscription required)

Though, in this article from the CBC, they're trying to put on a good front and continue to try to sweet-talk the Canadians into letting them proceed with the new span and customs plaza. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ambassador-bridge-mathew-moroun-convoy-1.6380486
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 08:48:30 PM by JREwing78 »
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SSOWorld

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #133 on: November 13, 2022, 08:42:40 PM »

"Pay Fare Ahead"? Are they going to transport my car across the bridge for me, perhaps with me still sitting in it? If not, it's not a "fare." It's a "toll."

"Toll" is pronounced "fare" in Michigan.  Otherwise delicate sensibilities will be upset. :P

Maybe no longer.  "Toll" instead of "fare" is on the plans for new signs approaching the Mackinac Bridge and International Bridge in the Upper Peninsula.  (Previously posted in the "Interesting Signs" thread.)



What - no "STRAIGHT THRU"?
No no. The signs to Canada should read "AHEAD"!
Not in Michigan.
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Scott O.

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Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

amroad17

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #134 on: November 14, 2022, 03:52:32 AM »

"Pay Fare Ahead"? Are they going to transport my car across the bridge for me, perhaps with me still sitting in it? If not, it's not a "fare." It's a "toll."

"Toll" is pronounced "fare" in Michigan.  Otherwise delicate sensibilities will be upset. :P

Maybe no longer.  "Toll" instead of "fare" is on the plans for new signs approaching the Mackinac Bridge and International Bridge in the Upper Peninsula.  (Previously posted in the "Interesting Signs" thread.)



What - no "STRAIGHT THRU"?
No no. The signs to Canada should read "AHEAD"!
Not in Michigan.
In Wisconsin. The two down arrows are spelled "AHEAD" in the Badger State.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #135 on: November 14, 2022, 10:28:19 PM »

Looks like the opening might be delayed by a few months:

Quote
A report by financial analyst S&P Global Ratings dated over a year ago estimated completion by April 25, 2025, thanks to construction delays caused by the COVID-19 pandemic and other issues. However, a subsequent report by S&P report completed two months ago obtained by the Star newspaper pushes completion back to the middle of August 2025.

- https://www.worldhighways.com/wh12/news/possible-delays-gordie-howe-bridge
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cbeach40

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #136 on: November 16, 2022, 02:11:04 PM »

I don't understand why the Gordie Howe Bridge - six lanes wide, is being constructed without a median barrier (whether adjustable or fixed) between the opposite directions of traffic.  I would think given the heavy traffic and winter road conditions, that would be a priority.

Given the lower speed design it's not necessary from a safety point of view. Adding it would require either adding width to the bridge or reducing the width of the lanes/facilities on it. The former would massively add cost, the latter would be detrimental to safety. Plus would be an extra thing to maintain, and make both snow removal and revising the directional the lane balance more difficult.

Will the Ambassador bridge still be open after 2024 since it's privately owned even though for all intents and purposes the Gordie Howe is its de-facto replacement?

From a traffic stnadpoint, no as both can serve different destinations on the US side, and offers redundancy and capacity at a critical point.
The truck ferry, I believe its days are numbered as hazmat will be allowed on the GHIB but not the Ambassador.

For the Ambassador replacement span, as I've heard while replacement bridge may have the regulatory clearance to go ahead they still would need financial backing to actually do it. Obviously nothing will be made public on that until it's finalized.

Anybody think if the Ambassador gets demolished it'll be quickly imploded with explosives or be slowly torn down by being dismantled "piece by piece" like what they're currently doing with the old I-74 twin suspension bridges over the Mississippi River in the Quad Cities between IA and IL, a process that's expected to take about 18 months to complete that started last September?

Aside from the obvious joke of "fall down on its own" I could see if going either way. The critical part will be minimizing disruption the shipping for the least cost, so whether dropping the structure and towing it away immediately is the way to do it or taking it apart piece by piece with boat traffic moving underneath is up to some engineers and bean counters.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 02:22:45 PM by cbeach40 »
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #137 on: November 17, 2022, 02:39:53 PM »

I don't understand why the Gordie Howe Bridge - six lanes wide, is being constructed without a median barrier (whether adjustable or fixed) between the opposite directions of traffic.  I would think given the heavy traffic and winter road conditions, that would be a priority.

Well that's what happens when you sit on your hands for decades until the Canadians can't take it anymore and do the whole thing themselves.  They get to design it how they want.
You can bet your ass if this had been a more collaborative process than it was between Michigan and Ontario without that meddling troll up river constantly throwing legal wrenches into the works, the new bridge would be barrier separated.  SOP for American highways facilities of this nature these days.
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bulldog1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2022, 10:07:14 AM »

Anybody think if the Ambassador gets demolished it'll be quickly imploded with explosives or be slowly torn down by being dismantled "piece by piece" like what they're currently doing with the old I-74 twin suspension bridges over the Mississippi River in the Quad Cities between IA and IL, a process that's expected to take about 18 months to complete that started last September?

The Ambassador has already been deconstructed once. When it was built the first time, it used a different type of steel wire for its cables. Faults were found with that type of steel. (I believe another suspension bridge in Rhode Island using the same type of style cabling collapsed.) The bridge was deconstructed by removing the road deck and the problematic cables. New main cables were strung, and the road deck was rehung before it finally opened to traffic.
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cbeach40

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #139 on: November 21, 2022, 01:39:35 PM »

I don't understand why the Gordie Howe Bridge - six lanes wide, is being constructed without a median barrier (whether adjustable or fixed) between the opposite directions of traffic.  I would think given the heavy traffic and winter road conditions, that would be a priority.

Well that's what happens when you sit on your hands for decades until the Canadians can't take it anymore and do the whole thing themselves.  They get to design it how they want.
You can bet your ass if this had been a more collaborative process than it was between Michigan and Ontario without that meddling troll up river constantly throwing legal wrenches into the works, the new bridge would be barrier separated.  SOP for American highways facilities of this nature these days.


MDOT and the respective US federal agencies have been very involved in the design and have set numerous requirements. Median barrier design (or lack thereof) would have been a joint decision.

Also, Canada isn't paying for it, it's s joint venture with revenues split between them. The politics prevented the US agencies from fronting the cash so Canada is fronting 100% and the splitting will now begin once that's been fully recouped instead of immediately.
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rte66man

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #140 on: December 08, 2022, 07:57:57 AM »

More delays. S&P reduced the bond rating from A- to BBB+

https://www.enr.com/articles/55482-report-gordie-howe-bridge-finish-could-delay-to-2025?oly_enc_id=8129J3592389J4M

Quote
Report: Gordie Howe Bridge Finish Could Delay to 2025
S&P has reduced the project's bond rating from A— to BBB+
By Jeff Yoders

The $5.7-billion Gordie Howe International Bridge, a 1.5-mile cable-stayed span to connect Detroit and Windsor, Ont., with a far larger land border crossing than currently exists between the two cities, may be delayed in substantial completion beyond the end of 2024.

The design-build contractor, a consortium known as Bridging North America, has been plagued by slowdowns from the COVID-19 pandemic and unknown conditions in the Michigan Interchange part of the project on the U.S. side.

An August report by analyst S&P Global says a new estimated opening date in mid-August 2025 is being discussed, mainly due to problems with building the Michigan Interchange that will connect traffic from the bridge to Interstate 75.

The analyst stated that the consortium has said design was not completed when construction of the interchange began and the relocation of a power line that was previously relocated to the siphons area of the interchange is preventing the project from carrying out scheduled construction. With several large projects in the area such as the Hudson's redevelopment, team executives said skilled labor was as hard to come by as it is anywhere in June.

"The project faces growing delays, and MI is now on the critical path of achieving substantial completion," the report states. "Due to prolonged delays because of siphon works issues, MI is reporting a more than 600-day delay, eating up all the cushion the project had between the MI handover date and the SC (substantial completion) date. Therefore, the project's critical path shifted to MI (from U.S. port of entry previously) and the delay in MI has led to a seven-and-half-month delay to the SC date, compared with a 4-month delay in our last review in August 2021. The siphon works issues remain unresolved and will likely cause additional delays."

The overall project includes the bridge itself, both U.S. and Canadian ports of entry and the Michigan Interchange.

S&P Global downgraded the project's rating from A— to BBB+ as a result of this most recent update.

The Canadian government is paying the majority of the project cost. The Windsor Detroit Bridge Authority, which is the Canadian crown corporation created to act as owner of the bridge, has has balked at extending the project's schedule because of a lack of good, traffic-free options to handle freight is already regularly reaching critical stages on the existing Ambassador Bridge and the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel.

Both crossing options now have overhead structures that limit movement of tall trucks. The agency insists that the project is still on schedule and the contractor team—which includes Fluor, Dragados USA and AECON—has not yet formally requested the seven-and-one-half month extension that would bring the project's completion date to August 2025.

"As it relates to the project schedule¸ the contracted substantial completion date for the Gordie Howe International Bridge project has not changed. WDBA and Bridging North America continue to work toward opening the bridge to traffic by the end of 2024," an authority spokesperson said in a statement.

The project team has raised more than 40 supervening event notices and there are 11 formal disputes that have been referred to a standing committee for hearing, the S&P Global report stated. The contractors characterized the situation as merely discussions at this point.

"Bridging North America has a contractual obligation to complete the Gordie Howe International Bridge project by the end of 2024. With the COVID-19 pandemic and related safety precautions now at a steady state, we are actively assessing the potential impacts of the pandemic on the project schedule," said the consortium in a statement. The team "continues to have discussions with Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority on schedule and has not made a formal request to move the completion date of the project."

The majority of project claims remain outstanding but the report indicates the agency is willing to continue a dialogue, "which is positive," S&P Global said.
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rte66man

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #141 on: January 13, 2023, 08:53:42 AM »

A conversation with Heather Grondin, vice president of corporate affairs and external relations at the Windsor-Detroit Bridge Authority (WDBA), which is overseeing the building of the Gordie Howe International Bridge (GHIB). (PODCAST)

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1374205/12025056-the-gordie-howe-international-bridge-takes-shape

Quote
In addition to facing the traditional challenges of any large infrastructure project, the worldwide pandemic also affected the project, though work continued with safeguards for the health of the workers.

Grondin explains that among other milestones in 2023, the towers on each side of the border will reach their full height - more than 700 feet, very close to the height of the tallest building at the Renaissance Center along the Detroit riverfront. 

Soon, workers will begin connecting the first cables from the towers to the bridge and road deck. Also in 2023, work will begin on the main span over the Detroit River, which will be accomplished without any work in the river.

Other ongoing developments include:

 -  All structures at the ports of entry are under construction.
 -  Construction of the ramps connecting from the U.S. Port of Entry to I-75.

Grondin also highlights the sustainability components of the project, which are receiving international recognition. She also explained the varied community-benefit programs that are helping neighbors of the bridge with home improvements and offering funding for some 20 non-for-profits supporting local communities in the Delray neighborhood of Detroit and the Sandwich neighborhood in Windsor.
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #142 on: January 13, 2023, 02:44:01 PM »

I drove past the site the other day and it looks like it's coming along pretty good.
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