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Author Topic: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)  (Read 12789 times)

CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« on: January 13, 2022, 02:01:53 PM »

Notable Events with the bridge's construction

The Canadian Port of Entry is currently under construction:

A time lapse of the US bridge towers from November 2020 to last September, where it looks like they are near completion.
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JREwing78

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2022, 05:01:32 PM »

We have additional discussion about the Gordie Howe in this thread:
Detroit Bridge Wars
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1144.325

Probably makes sense for the Gordie Howe to have its own thread, but there's a lot of discussion about it in the other thread.
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wanderer2575

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2022, 05:51:19 PM »

Does anyone have a link to a rendering showing where the bridge is located and the routing of the connections to I-75 and ON-401?  I haven't been able to find one.  Where the I-75 interchange is being constructed seems quite a distance north of the ON-401 terminus.
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SkyPesos

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2022, 06:20:43 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.
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JREwing78

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2022, 07:08:51 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

#3 is the most likely out of that group - the ramps dump straight into the border crossing plaza before hopping on the Gordie Howe. But it will need something additional to distinguish the two crossings. Given the politics involved (the Moroun family will take any opportunity to sue if it appears the Ambassador Bridge plays 2nd fiddle to the Howe on official signage), that could be tricky, but a few ideas:

- Designate the Howe with a "To 401", complete with shield, on the Howe exit, and the Ambassador with a "To 3" designation (although ultimately you can reach the 401 from both).
- Designate the Howe as an express or a "to Toronto" route, with the Ambassador with a "local", "downtown Windsor" or other wording to suggest the Howe is the through routing
- Signage showing estimated crossing times via the Ambassador, the Howe, and the tunnel, guiding travelers to the fastest option
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catch22

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2022, 08:47:49 PM »

Does anyone have a link to a rendering showing where the bridge is located and the routing of the connections to I-75 and ON-401?  I haven't been able to find one.  Where the I-75 interchange is being constructed seems quite a distance north of the ON-401 terminus.


This is from the bridge's web site.  More diagrams here: https://www.gordiehoweinternationalbridge.com/en/gallery#2


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SkyPesos

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2022, 08:50:18 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

- Designate the Howe with a "To 401", complete with shield, on the Howe exit
I like this one as well. Ideally, I like to see some sort of highway 401 mentioned on the BGS for the Gordie Howe Bridge exit on I-75, either with M-401, or as you said, To ON 401
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2022, 09:23:12 PM »

Does anyone have a link to a rendering showing where the bridge is located and the routing of the connections to I-75 and ON-401?  I haven't been able to find one.  Where the I-75 interchange is being constructed seems quite a distance north of the ON-401 terminus.
It looks like it's going to be between Post Street, Campbell Street, Jefferson and the train tracks south of Fort and the bridge will cross just north of the mouth of the Rouge River. The ramps should be between like Dragoon and Junction.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 11:05:32 PM »

We have additional discussion about the Gordie Howe in this thread:
Detroit Bridge Wars
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1144.325

Probably makes sense for the Gordie Howe to have its own thread, but there's a lot of discussion about it in the other thread.

I was actually debating whether I would've posted there or created a new thread about it
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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 11:12:50 PM »

- Designate the Howe with a "To 401", complete with shield, on the Howe exit, and the Ambassador with a "To 3" designation (although ultimately you can reach the 401 from both).
Complete with the green "to" signs? :bigass:
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cbeach40

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2022, 01:18:14 AM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

Obviously MDOT has their own legal practices and such (ie, where and what is considered right-of-way), but the ramps leading to and from the bridge are I believe part of the Bridging North America concession agreement. So whether they designate a number to a facility that'll be owned and operated by a private consortium, is that something MDOT would do?

For that matter, I think that would eliminate an Interstate number, given how its funding source is foreign country.  :-D
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vdeane

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2022, 12:58:47 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

Obviously MDOT has their own legal practices and such (ie, where and what is considered right-of-way), but the ramps leading to and from the bridge are I believe part of the Bridging North America concession agreement. So whether they designate a number to a facility that'll be owned and operated by a private consortium, is that something MDOT would do?

For that matter, I think that would eliminate an Interstate number, given how its funding source is foreign country.  :-D

Not sure what Michigan's policy is, but given how much of the US doesn't care about ownership with respect to route signing the way Ontario does, I'm not sure if that would be an issue.  Curve speeds and the lack of dividers on the bridge might be a bigger one... FHWA is stricter on making sure everything conforms to standards than they used to be, although this recently happened in Washington, so clearly there are exceptions around the border.
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Henry

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2022, 01:19:46 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

Obviously MDOT has their own legal practices and such (ie, where and what is considered right-of-way), but the ramps leading to and from the bridge are I believe part of the Bridging North America concession agreement. So whether they designate a number to a facility that'll be owned and operated by a private consortium, is that something MDOT would do?

For that matter, I think that would eliminate an Interstate number, given how its funding source is foreign country.  :-D

Not sure what Michigan's policy is, but given how much of the US doesn't care about ownership with respect to route signing the way Ontario does, I'm not sure if that would be an issue.  Curve speeds and the lack of dividers on the bridge might be a bigger one... FHWA is stricter on making sure everything conforms to standards than they used to be, although this recently happened in Washington, so clearly there are exceptions around the border.
I'd bet it all on M-401, as it would make the most sense as a U.S. continuation of the provincial number.
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GaryV

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2022, 01:31:41 PM »

The approaches to the Ambassador Bridge don't have a number.  Why would they assign one for the Gordie Howe?

But if they absolutely need a number, how about CONN 401?
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SkyPesos

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2022, 02:28:54 PM »

If it's not going to have a number, "TO ON 401" would be the best option to sign it imo.
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skluth

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2022, 03:40:15 PM »

Is there an M-9? I know it's a short route, but that was his uniform number. Though I agree either M-401 or "To ON 401" would be better.
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2022, 05:24:29 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.
It'll indeed be #3. They aren't going to make a route number for a bridge ramp.
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2022, 05:29:38 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

#3 is the most likely out of that group - the ramps dump straight into the border crossing plaza before hopping on the Gordie Howe. But it will need something additional to distinguish the two crossings. Given the politics involved (the Moroun family will take any opportunity to sue if it appears the Ambassador Bridge plays 2nd fiddle to the Howe on official signage), that could be tricky, but a few ideas:

- Designate the Howe with a "To 401", complete with shield, on the Howe exit, and the Ambassador with a "To 3" designation (although ultimately you can reach the 401 from both).
- Designate the Howe as an express or a "to Toronto" route, with the Ambassador with a "local", "downtown Windsor" or other wording to suggest the Howe is the through routing
- Signage showing estimated crossing times via the Ambassador, the Howe, and the tunnel, guiding travelers to the fastest option
It's not going to matter what the Mouron family wants or does. The Ambassador Bridge's days are numbered, it's a 90 year old bridge that is in dire need of an upgrade and is getting replaced. But anyway they aren't going to make it an Interstate number and no other bridge has a state highway number they aren't going to do that either.
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2022, 05:30:55 PM »

Is there an M-9? I know it's a short route, but that was his uniform number. Though I agree either M-401 or "To ON 401" would be better.
No there isn't but it there isn't a route number needed for a bridge to Canada. It'll probably be a ramp with Bridge to Canada signs just like the Ambassador Bridge. Screw the Moroun family btw.
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Scott5114

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2022, 08:29:50 PM »

If you really want to see some heads explode, keep signing it ON-401 into the United States. Hey, if we can have AR-43 in Oklahoma, why not? :sombrero:
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mgk920

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2022, 08:55:11 PM »

I agree that it will most likely be '(unnumbered) "'Bridge To Canada' (Passports required)".

Also, since I do consider it to be likely that the (non-Bug related) border crossing restrictions and procedures will be substantially eased back within the foreseeable future, either (in reduced order of likelihood):

- M-401
- I-(odd)x75.
- I-96

Mike
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Terry Shea

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2022, 11:05:39 PM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

Obviously MDOT has their own legal practices and such (ie, where and what is considered right-of-way), but the ramps leading to and from the bridge are I believe part of the Bridging North America concession agreement. So whether they designate a number to a facility that'll be owned and operated by a private consortium, is that something MDOT would do?

For that matter, I think that would eliminate an Interstate number, given how its funding source is foreign country.  :-D

Not sure what Michigan's policy is, but given how much of the US doesn't care about ownership with respect to route signing the way Ontario does, I'm not sure if that would be an issue.  Curve speeds and the lack of dividers on the bridge might be a bigger one... FHWA is stricter on making sure everything conforms to standards than they used to be, although this recently happened in Washington, so clearly there are exceptions around the border.
I'd bet it all on M-401, as it would make the most sense as a U.S. continuation of the provincial number.
MDOT never does anything that makes sense!
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Flint1979

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2022, 06:29:12 AM »

Have it been decided what the US approach to the bridge be called yet? I see a few options here:
1) an x75
2) M-401 (my preference)
3) “Bridge to Canada”, without a route number.

Obviously MDOT has their own legal practices and such (ie, where and what is considered right-of-way), but the ramps leading to and from the bridge are I believe part of the Bridging North America concession agreement. So whether they designate a number to a facility that'll be owned and operated by a private consortium, is that something MDOT would do?

For that matter, I think that would eliminate an Interstate number, given how its funding source is foreign country.  :-D

Not sure what Michigan's policy is, but given how much of the US doesn't care about ownership with respect to route signing the way Ontario does, I'm not sure if that would be an issue.  Curve speeds and the lack of dividers on the bridge might be a bigger one... FHWA is stricter on making sure everything conforms to standards than they used to be, although this recently happened in Washington, so clearly there are exceptions around the border.
I'd bet it all on M-401, as it would make the most sense as a U.S. continuation of the provincial number.
MDOT never does anything that makes sense!
I don't see where making a bridge ramp into a route number really makes any sense.
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abefroman329

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2022, 10:17:29 AM »

If you really want to see some heads explode, keep signing it ON-401 into the United States. Hey, if we can have AR-43 in Oklahoma, why not? :sombrero:
:-D It'll be the Amero all over again!
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SkyPesos

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Re: Gordie Howe Bridge (US-Canada)
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2022, 10:33:30 AM »

If you really want to see some heads explode, keep signing it ON-401 into the United States. Hey, if we can have AR-43 in Oklahoma, why not? :sombrero:
Considering Canada paid for the bridge, I wouldn't completely rule that out  :)
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