Port to Plains Corridor (I-27 extension) officially signed into law!

[Rothman]

Good luck getting the funding to construct it.  I know I won't live long enough to see much of it complete.

I know that New Mexico will never come up with the money to upgrade US-64/87 to interstate standards, so from my perspective, the Ports to Plains Corridor in New Mexico is dead on arrival.

As for New Mexico, I am guessing they will simply build a bypass of Des Moines and Clayton and let the rest take 40 years since most of it is divided 4 lane anyway, just not interstate standards.

Couldn't remember how the highway ran through Des Moines so I looked it up on Google Maps. I was shocked to find a street labeled "Swastika Ave". Really??

How dare they have a street named after a symbol that's been around for millennia?

I suppose it is strange they haven't changed it.

That's probably the point of his post.

Wonder what the point of yours was.

[Bobby5280]

In the case of Des Moines it would probably be cheaper just to buy and clear the properties on the North side of the street and upgrade the highway straight thru town. Otherwise the highway would need to bypass the town around its Southwest side. The BNSF rail line runs fairly close to US-64/87, so a bypass around the North side of town would require some significant rail bridge crossings.

An upgrade straight through town would probably be the best thing for the town. The displaced businesses would have a better chance to start over and even thrive after the new highway was completed.

The town of Capulin is another example, although a bypass there would only have to go North about a block to have a fairly clear shot. Only a couple or so properties would need to be removed and others would have much shorter driveway entrances to their homes.

Grenville would be an easy upgrade. That little town is built only on the Southwest side of US-64/87. Same goes for the town of Mount Dora.

Really Clayton and Texline are the two biggest obstacles to an Interstate upgrade of US-64/87.

I think the obvious solution for Clayton is a bypass on the Southwest side of town, about 8 or 10 blocks WSW of the current US-64/87 route thru town. An Interstate bypass would be a mixed blessing. It's possible some of the existing road trip service related businesses in town could shrivel up. But most of those hotels, restaurants and fuel stops are run by national chains. I don't think Loves would have all that much of a problem building a new location along an Interstate exit. A big new Valero store was recently opened in town, even with a separate RV Fueling canopy. There isn't a lot of places out in that region to fuel up and get food. So even if an bypass is built, quite a few motorists would still have to go into Clayton for certain services.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good luck getting the funding to construct it.  I know I won't live long enough to see much of it complete.

I know that New Mexico will never come up with the money to upgrade US-64/87 to interstate standards, so from my perspective, the Ports to Plains Corridor in New Mexico is dead on arrival.

As for New Mexico, I am guessing they will simply build a bypass of Des Moines and Clayton and let the rest take 40 years since most of it is divided 4 lane anyway, just not interstate standards.

Couldn't remember how the highway ran through Des Moines so I looked it up on Google Maps. I was shocked to find a street labeled "Swastika Ave". Really??

How dare they have a street named after a symbol that's been around for millennia?

I suppose it is strange they haven't changed it.

That's probably the point of his post.

Wonder what the point of yours was.

What do I need to spell it out with a fucking crayon? It's pretty obvious that it's a weird name. That's my point. I don't think anyone commenting about it really cares or needs to know how long Swastika symbols have been around given they're irrelevant.

[Rothman]

Good luck getting the funding to construct it.  I know I won't live long enough to see much of it complete.

I know that New Mexico will never come up with the money to upgrade US-64/87 to interstate standards, so from my perspective, the Ports to Plains Corridor in New Mexico is dead on arrival.

As for New Mexico, I am guessing they will simply build a bypass of Des Moines and Clayton and let the rest take 40 years since most of it is divided 4 lane anyway, just not interstate standards.

Couldn't remember how the highway ran through Des Moines so I looked it up on Google Maps. I was shocked to find a street labeled "Swastika Ave". Really??

How dare they have a street named after a symbol that's been around for millennia?

I suppose it is strange they haven't changed it.

That's probably the point of his post.

Wonder what the point of yours was.

What do I need to spell it out with a fucking crayon?

Sins of a feather evidently flock together.

[Plutonic Panda]

Good luck getting the funding to construct it.  I know I won't live long enough to see much of it complete.

I know that New Mexico will never come up with the money to upgrade US-64/87 to interstate standards, so from my perspective, the Ports to Plains Corridor in New Mexico is dead on arrival.

As for New Mexico, I am guessing they will simply build a bypass of Des Moines and Clayton and let the rest take 40 years since most of it is divided 4 lane anyway, just not interstate standards.

Couldn't remember how the highway ran through Des Moines so I looked it up on Google Maps. I was shocked to find a street labeled "Swastika Ave". Really??

How dare they have a street named after a symbol that's been around for millennia?

I suppose it is strange they haven't changed it.

That's probably the point of his post.

Wonder what the point of yours was.

What do I need to spell it out with a fucking crayon?

Sins of a feather evidently flock together.

Don't you have a freeway to remove in Syracuse or something? Lol

[abqtraveler]

In the case of Des Moines it would probably be cheaper just to buy and clear the properties on the North side of the street and upgrade the highway straight thru town. Otherwise the highway would need to bypass the town around its Southwest side. The BNSF rail line runs fairly close to US-64/87, so a bypass around the North side of town would require some significant rail bridge crossings.

An upgrade straight through town would probably be the best thing for the town. The displaced businesses would have a better chance to start over and even thrive after the new highway was completed.

The town of Capulin is another example, although a bypass there would only have to go North about a block to have a fairly clear shot. Only a couple or so properties would need to be removed and others would have much shorter driveway entrances to their homes.

Grenville would be an easy upgrade. That little town is built only on the Southwest side of US-64/87. Same goes for the town of Mount Dora.

Really Clayton and Texline are the two biggest obstacles to an Interstate upgrade of US-64/87.

I think the obvious solution for Clayton is a bypass on the Southwest side of town, about 8 or 10 blocks WSW of the current US-64/87 route thru town. An Interstate bypass would be a mixed blessing. It's possible some of the existing road trip service related businesses in town could shrivel up. But most of those hotels, restaurants and fuel stops are run by national chains. I don't think Loves would have all that much of a problem building a new location along an Interstate exit. A big new Valero store was recently opened in town, even with a separate RV Fueling canopy. There isn't a lot of places out in that region to fuel up and get food. So even if an bypass is built, quite a few motorists would still have to go into Clayton for certain services.

True, but the powers that be in New Mexico will never get around to performing any upgrades on 64/87, unless Congress earmarks funds specifically to convert 64/87 to an interstate (also highly unlikely) for two reasons: 1) officials in NM believe 64/87 doesn't carry enough traffic to warrant an upgrade to interstate, and more importantly, 2) anything that isn't in--or doesn't connect to--Albuquerque or Santa Fe automatically gets pushed to the bottom of the priority list in NM.

[Bobby5280]

Yep, I agree. But I'm speaking in hypotheticals about what could happen if the NM state government was more in favor of an Interstate upgrade out there. I still think it's more worthwhile to upgrade US-287 straight North into SE Colorado. It would give long haul truckers a good quality alternative to Raton Pass, a divided four lane road with limited access -as opposed to the current US-287 2-lane road that is more dangerous. With Interstates going over Raton Pass and crossing the caprock in the Panhandles truckers could use either route as an alternative for the other in bad weather situations.

I think if TX DOT, ODOT and CDOT put focused effort on upgrading the US-287 corridor it might actually light a fire under the butts of legislators in New Mexico. Those lawmakers might actually get worried motorists that usually pass through NE NM might choose to drive elsewhere and spend money on highway stops elsewhere too.

[Stephane Dumas]

I think if TX DOT, ODOT and CDOT put focused effort on upgrading the US-287 corridor it might actually light a fire under the butts of legislators in New Mexico. Those lawmakers might actually get worried motorists that usually pass through NE NM might choose to drive elsewhere and spend money on highway stops elsewhere too.

And also, that might be the occasion to amalgate or merge the Port-to-Plains corridor with another corridor, the Heartland Expressway aka Theodore Roosevelt Expwy.
https://pal.memberclicks.net/assets/newsletter_2022/Benefits_of_the_Heartland_Expressway.pdf
https://www.trexpressway.com/usrfiles/view2.pdf

[SD Mapman]

I think if TX DOT, ODOT and CDOT put focused effort on upgrading the US-287 corridor it might actually light a fire under the butts of legislators in New Mexico. Those lawmakers might actually get worried motorists that usually pass through NE NM might choose to drive elsewhere and spend money on highway stops elsewhere too.

And also, that might be the occasion to amalgate or merge the Port-to-Plains corridor with another corridor, the Heartland Expressway aka Theodore Roosevelt Expwy.
https://pal.memberclicks.net/assets/newsletter_2022/Benefits_of_the_Heartland_Expressway.pdf
https://www.trexpressway.com/usrfiles/view2.pdf

I fully support a N-S interstate through the Hills, doubt there's traffic to justify anything north of I-70 though. That would also give Saskatchewan an interstate border crossing!

[Bobby5280]

I think I-27 has to get extended up to Limon just to open the door to ideas new limited access corridors farther North.

[KCRoadFan]

One thing I wonder: what would an exit list for the extended I-27 look like? Would the road be long enough for the first four-digit exit numbers in this country's history? Either way, I'd like to see a possible exit list!

[SkyPesos]

One thing I wonder: what would an exit list for the extended I-27 look like? Would the road be long enough for the first four-digit exit numbers in this country's history? Either way, I'd like to see a possible exit list!

Definitely not 4 digits as its planned to end at Laredo (unless we convert to km). However, if it takes over I-2 and makes it to Brownsville, I measured out 910 miles in Texas, though note that I followed US routes (notably US 83, 277, 87) in the measurement the entire way.

[edwaleni]

One thing I wonder: what would an exit list for the extended I-27 look like? Would the road be long enough for the first four-digit exit numbers in this country's history? Either way, I'd like to see a possible exit list!

Definitely not 4 digits as its planned to end at Laredo (unless we convert to km). However, if it takes over I-2 and makes it to Brownsville, I measured out 910 miles in Texas, though note that I followed US routes (notably US 83, 277, 87) in the measurement the entire way.

It won't go past Laredo. I-2 is the Brownsville-Laredo route.

[DJStephens]

Yep, I agree. But I'm speaking in hypotheticals about what could happen if the NM state government was more in favor of an Interstate upgrade out there. I still think it's more worthwhile to upgrade US-287 straight North into SE Colorado. It would give long haul truckers a good quality alternative to Raton Pass, a divided four lane road with limited access -as opposed to the current US-287 2-lane road that is more dangerous. With Interstates going over Raton Pass and crossing the caprock in the Panhandles truckers could use either route as an alternative for the other in bad weather situations.

I think if TX DOT, ODOT and CDOT put focused effort on upgrading the US-287 corridor it might actually light a fire under the butts of legislators in New Mexico. Those lawmakers might actually get worried motorists that usually pass through NE NM might choose to drive elsewhere and spend money on highway stops elsewhere too.

These "lawmakers" and politicians are more concerned with west coast imported "progressive" ideals and thought processes.   While in reality, it is a large, western state, that could, and should have had an extensive four lane network in place by now.   A network that should have been built to much higher standards.    So many deficiencies, and so many mistakes, it is hard to find a place to start. 
But yes, would agree with your desire to upgrade US-287 from DFW westward, and to build a future extension of I-27 to Limon, CO, in lieu of any upgrades in NE New Mexico.  It is not a good idea to "attract" long distance traffic and trucking to Raton Pass.  Period.   

[Scott5114]

I think the state of New Mexico's road system has less to do with culture wars bullshit and more to do with the fact that it's 45th in per-capita GDP, right between Kentucky and South Carolina.

[Bobby5280]

It's really a bit of both. New Mexico's state legislature and its associated bureaucracies are just plain grossly out of touch with reality.

One of the tribes my sign company works with has a project in development off an Interstate at a certain location in New Mexico. They have been going thru red tape f***king hell for the past two years, all for a decent-sized travel stop and casino off an exit where there is really no other development. The state is demanding they spend a shit-ton of money on temporary access roads and entrances built to state standards which the state also demands they spend even more money to remove after the construction is finished since those "temporary" access points would be in the state's right of way. It's tone deaf as hell. I'm surprised the tribe is still even trying to go thru with the project rather than build something similar in a different state.

My own politics are pretty centrist; I'm pretty liberal on some topics and more conservative on others. But this crap of red tape machinery existing just for the sole purpose of stifling business, even tribe-associated business is just too f***king stupid to be believable. But yet New Mexico makes it possible.

I don't enjoy s***-talking New Mexico since I was born there. We have all the aristocrafts sipping their tea in Santa Fe while the rest of the state is a mostly low income backwater. If it wasn't for the oil business in the Southeast region New Mexico would be dead last in every metric.

Oklahoma is bad enough with some of its red tape nonsense. At least our state's leaders are asking some objective questions why things continue to be this way other than just preserving "tradition." I think Oklahoma is a little more jealous of all the growth that has taken place in Texas. New Mexico's state government is too ignorant to even notice.

[Plutonic Panda]

New Mexico has really been growing on me lately. I used to not care so much about it and I've found that concepts like proper customer service seem to be a complete afterthought there but I'm considering buying some land in northern nm somewhere. Honestly I've been to just every single city, part of the state EXCEPT for Santa Fe go figure. It's on my to do list this year.

I honestly don't think New Mexico has the worst roads but they aren't the best. I think Colorado gives New Mexico a run for its money in regards to an under built system. They really should get on the ball with planning new freeways and conversions around Albuquerque. I have a feeling that city is "undiscovered"  so to speak and will experience high growth one day.

I really like Albuquerques six lane road networks. I wish OKC could take note.

[Rothman]

It's really a bit of both. New Mexico's state legislature and its associated bureaucracies are just plain grossly out of touch with reality.

One of the tribes my sign company works with has a project in development off an Interstate at a certain location in New Mexico. They have been going thru red tape f***king hell for the past two years, all for a decent-sized travel stop and casino off an exit where there is really no other development. The state is demanding they spend a shit-ton of money on temporary access roads and entrances built to state standards which the state also demands they spend even more money to remove after the construction is finished since those "temporary" access points would be in the state's right of way. It's tone deaf as hell. I'm surprised the tribe is still even trying to go thru with the project rather than build something similar in a different state.

My own politics are pretty centrist; I'm pretty liberal on some topics and more conservative on others. But this crap of red tape machinery existing just for the sole purpose of stifling business, even tribe-associated business is just too f***king stupid to be believable. But yet New Mexico makes it possible.

I don't enjoy s***-talking New Mexico since I was born there. We have all the aristocrafts sipping their tea in Santa Fe while the rest of the state is a mostly low income backwater. If it wasn't for the oil business in the Southeast region New Mexico would be dead last in every metric.

Oklahoma is bad enough with some of its red tape nonsense. At least our state's leaders are asking some objective questions why things continue to be this way other than just preserving "tradition." I think Oklahoma is a little more jealous of all the growth that has taken place in Texas. New Mexico's state government is too ignorant to even notice.

If you want State money, you have to play by State rules.  Yep, temp roads have to be by State standards...

ETA: If you don't use State standards, whose are you going to go by and ensure safety of the traveling public?  My wife works with State reimbursement of municipality transportation expenses and has to deny them all the time because of shoddy, substandard and outright unsafe work.

[US 89]

I honestly don’t think New Mexico has the worst roads but they aren’t the best. I think Colorado gives New Mexico a run for its money in regards to an under built system. They really should get on the ball with planning new freeways and conversions around Albuquerque. I have a feeling that city is “undiscovered” so to speak and will experience high growth one day.

You do realize the Paseo del Norte freeway is the only component of a failed beltway plan that got built? I don't think any new freeway proposal in Albuquerque will ever live to see the light of day. Paseo del Volcan is the only thing that even has a shot, and that's years and years off. Tramway should probably be a freeway, and probably has the ROW for it if you put in tight diamonds/SPUIs for the interchanges (see Bangerter Highway in Salt Lake for a good example of this), but Tramway goes through rich NIMBYland and any upgrades would require moving the bike trail that currently occupies the east half of the ROW. Good luck with that.

Regarding growth... I love Albuquerque and would be happy to live there, but to be honest that's because of family connections. My grandma used to live there and a hell of a lot of other family still does, so I've been there more times than I care to count and I've gotten a pretty good feel for the area. ABQ is not going to grow in the way other inland western cities like Denver or Salt Lake City have been recently until the city's crime stats improve. I have a cousin who is an Albuquerque Police officer and he is...well, not optimistic.

[DJStephens]

I think the state of New Mexico's road system has less to do with culture wars bullshit and more to do with the fact that it's 45th in per-capita GDP, right between Kentucky and South Carolina.

   If that is the case, why are states such as Alabama and Mississippi so much better in delivering a product to the motoring public?   In terms of planning, design, and construction quality and standards.  Well for starters, those southeastern states didn't have Tony Anaya, Gary Johnson, Bill Richardson, or Pete Rahn. 
   New Mexico is becoming more of a "dumb bell" in terms of wealth distribution.  A lot of west coast transplants, coming since the mid to late seventies.  In notable numbers. They tend to bring their "politics" and vote in high percentage of their total numbers.   And they have brought their money.  Some have even become politicians here, as well as public sector types.   That's probably where this regressive stuff, here locally, is coming from.  Road diets.  Tight corner radii. Skewing and Shifting. Skinny shoulders.  Bad sight lines.  Poor horizontal and vertical curvature.   Over-densification of land use. 
   So a fair amount of "rich" and a fair amount of "poor".   It could be argued - not many in the "middle".  A lot of public sector types, in NM also, it might have one of the highest percentage of total employment in the public sector workforce - of any state.   

[Plutonic Panda]

I honestly don't think New Mexico has the worst roads but they aren't the best. I think Colorado gives New Mexico a run for its money in regards to an under built system. They really should get on the ball with planning new freeways and conversions around Albuquerque. I have a feeling that city is "undiscovered"  so to speak and will experience high growth one day.

You do realize the Paseo del Norte freeway is the only component of a failed beltway plan that got built? I don't think any new freeway proposal in Albuquerque will ever live to see the light of day. Paseo del Volcan is the only thing that even has a shot, and that's years and years off. Tramway should probably be a freeway, and probably has the ROW for it if you put in tight diamonds/SPUIs for the interchanges (see Bangerter Highway in Salt Lake for a good example of this), but Tramway goes through rich NIMBYland and any upgrades would require moving the bike trail that currently occupies the east half of the ROW. Good luck with that.

Regarding growth... I love Albuquerque and would be happy to live there, but to be honest that's because of family connections. My grandma used to live there and a hell of a lot of other family still does, so I've been there more times than I care to count and I've gotten a pretty good feel for the area. ABQ is not going to grow in the way other inland western cities like Denver or Salt Lake City have been recently until the city's crime stats improve. I have a cousin who is an Albuquerque Police officer and he is...well, not optimistic.

Things can turn around. Look at LA and NYC. Of course they can take a turn for the worse as well. I'm not too familiar with ABQs freeway plans other than I thought there was a proposal to turn Coors BLVD into a freeway but it was killed. Not sure if that's the one I'm thinking of. They need to do some planning at the least.

[formulanone]

Man, I just can't wait for Limon to be the most useful control city.

Limon awarded new International Airport, 2036 Summer Olympics, and new permanent site of Amazon Coachella—Chill Bros. Dispensary Burning Man — Presented by Tesla Festival.

[TXtoNJ]

I honestly don't think New Mexico has the worst roads but they aren't the best. I think Colorado gives New Mexico a run for its money in regards to an under built system. They really should get on the ball with planning new freeways and conversions around Albuquerque. I have a feeling that city is "undiscovered"  so to speak and will experience high growth one day.

You do realize the Paseo del Norte freeway is the only component of a failed beltway plan that got built? I don't think any new freeway proposal in Albuquerque will ever live to see the light of day. Paseo del Volcan is the only thing that even has a shot, and that's years and years off. Tramway should probably be a freeway, and probably has the ROW for it if you put in tight diamonds/SPUIs for the interchanges (see Bangerter Highway in Salt Lake for a good example of this), but Tramway goes through rich NIMBYland and any upgrades would require moving the bike trail that currently occupies the east half of the ROW. Good luck with that.

Regarding growth... I love Albuquerque and would be happy to live there, but to be honest that's because of family connections. My grandma used to live there and a hell of a lot of other family still does, so I've been there more times than I care to count and I've gotten a pretty good feel for the area. ABQ is not going to grow in the way other inland western cities like Denver or Salt Lake City have been recently until the city's crime stats improve. I have a cousin who is an Albuquerque Police officer and he is...well, not optimistic.

Things can turn around. Look at LA and NYC. Of course they can take a turn for the worse as well. I'm not too familiar with ABQs freeway plans other than I thought there was a proposal to turn Coors BLVD into a freeway but it was killed. Not sure if that's the one I'm thinking of. They need to do some planning at the least.

Though really, what would drive ABQ's growth? The economy is primarily centered on government (Sandia Labs, Kirtland AFB) and education (UNM). There's some tech, but it's not a big software hub, and other cities like Austin or Chattanooga seem to be higher on the growth list. Tourism is decent, but Santa Fe/Taos rise far above it.

Absent the discovery of some particularly useful commodity, there's nothing beyond government intervention that will drive growth. That's largely why the political environment is more reminiscent of Bay Area cities (with the same combo of government/education/tech) than other Interior West cities, whose economies center more on resource extraction.

[Bobby5280]

Albuquerque has a pretty bad reputation for crime and other problems. It's not a city where I would want to live. Movie/TV industry activity is one of the few bright spots I see there. Living costs around the Santa Fe area are insane.

If you want State money, you have to play by State rules.  Yep, temp roads have to be by State standards...

This tribe's project is not getting any state money. The state is forcing them to build these access roads that aren't even needed on the tribe's own dime and then forcing them to remove them afterward. I see construction projects all the time where improvised dirt and gravel roads are used on the build site either to be graded and landscaped-over later or converted into permanent concrete driveways.

Things can turn around. Look at LA and NYC. Of course they can take a turn for the worse as well. I'm not too familiar with ABQs freeway plans other than I thought there was a proposal to turn Coors BLVD into a freeway but it was killed. Not sure if that's the one I'm thinking of. They need to do some planning at the least.

The gentrification process is the biggest reason why crime rates dropped in NYC. Housing and other living costs within the 5 boroughs grew expensive enough to drive out the "riff raff." Former combat zones like Brownsville and Bedford-Stuyvesant were transformed into trendy neighborhoods for hipsters and yuppies. The city government didn't do anything magical or revolutionary. Even the controversial stop and frisk policies delivered only so much benefit. Crime has bumped up a good bit in NYC recently, but the numbers are still very far below the record-setting peaks of the late 1980's and early 1990's.

The same thing can be said for Los Angeles and other areas of California. The cost of living has soared so high that it is driving all kinds of people out of the state. A bunch are people who can't afford to stay, which is going to be a real bitch for low wage service industry businesses already struggling to fill job vacancies. Then there's others who are cashing out, selling their homes at outsized profits and using those profits to buy new homes in places like Texas.

IMHO, cities like NYC and LA are in financially unsustainable situations. They're in a bubble economy. So much property in those cities is being bought and held vacant by investors across the globe. No one knows for sure when the bubble will finally pop, but when it does it won't be pretty.

[ethanhopkin14]

I would like to see the section from Del Rio to Laredo signed as I-2, but extending I-2 west to branch off I-10 backward I-8 style.