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Author Topic: State roads at your state's borders - how many keep the number across the line?  (Read 2567 times)

tsmatt13

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Nope.  PA does not duplicate interstate and state routes unless created by a renumbering.  PA has I-90 (yes, itís almost 400 miles away, but itís there).

Thanks for pointing that out. On Google Maps the 90 number is still there for the PA section of the road but there is not a real PA-90 route there.  :-/
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KCRoadFan

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I seem to be picking up a theme here. States that organize their state highway numbers based on a grid (like Florida, Indiana, and South Dakota) or by numerical ranges based on the county (like Nevada) tend not to have highways that keep their numbers across the state line - which I suppose makes sense, given that those states are all doing their own thing, presumably without regard to what numbers the neighboring states have given the roads. In your opinion, does my assessment seem right?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 01:24:16 AM by KCRoadFan »
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kphoger

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I seem to be picking up a theme here. States that organize their state highway numbers based on a grid (like Florida, Indiana, and South Dakota) or by numerical ranges based on the county (like Nevada) tend not to have highways that keep their numbers across the state line - which I suppose makes sense, given that those states are all doing their own thing, presumably without regard to what numbers the neighboring states have given the roads. In your opinion, does my assessment seem right?

Depends.  That state could be doing its own thing, but the neighboring states might still strive for continuity.  Or it might not even be a clear either-or situation.

For an interesting example, Kansas has this cool thing where the three westernmost N-S state highways are  23Ė25Ė27.  Oklahoma doesn't do the same thing, yet they carried the 23 number across into Oklahoma anyway.  Even more interestingly, though, the two routes didn't immediately connect to each other, as K-23's terminus was short of the state line, and Kansas extended K-23 in a joint decisions with Oklahoma for the purpose of route number continuity.

Quote from: Oklahoma Department of Highways ó Office of the Director ó 14-DEC-1959
HIGHWAY ROUTING AND NUMBERING NOTES FROM JOINT MEETING, OKLAHOMA AND KANSAS HIGHWAY COMMISSIONS AT WICHITA, KANSAS ON FRIDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1959

4.  In Meade County, Kansas, Kansas route 23 will be swung southwesterly to enter Oklahoma in line with SH 23, northeast of Forgan.  The route number (23) will be common to both states;  it will be carried into Texas south of Elmwood in Beaver County.  The alignment of this Kansas connection is properly shown on the 1959 Oklahoma Highway map.

And, at first glance, it might appear that they didn't likewise care about route number continuity with K-25, considering they kept the OK-136 number.  But actually, when you dig into it, you find that they actually had a reason for that too.

Quote
3.  Kansas is planning a new route, Kansas 25 to run south from Feterite in Stephens County, straight to the intersection north of Guymon.  Although this route will be SH 25 in Kansas, it will remain SH 136 in Oklahoma, since the connecting route in Texas is numbered 136.
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SD Mapman

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Here are the results for Iowa:

IA-MN:
Formerly, IA 91 & MN 91
IA 60 & MN 60
IA 86 & MN 86
IA 4 & MN 4
IA 15 & MN 15

IA 27
IA 139 & MN 139
IA 76 & MN 76
IA 26 & MN 26


IA-WI:
IA 9 & WI 82

IA-IL:
IA 64 & IL 64
IA 136 & IL 136
IA 92 & IL 92

IA 163
Formerly, IA 2 & IL 9

IA-MO:
IA 27 & MO 27
IA 81 & MO 81
IA 202 & MO 202
IA 5 & MO 5
IA 148 & MO 148


IA-NE:
IA 2 & NE 2
IA 165 & Abbott Drive
IA 175 & NE 51

IA-SD:
IA 3 & SD 50
Formerly, IA 403 & SD 48
IA 10 & SD 46
IA 9 & SD 42

Out of the 24 current state highways in Iowa that cross a border, 16 of them keep their number in the neighboring state (So, 2/3 of them). It makes sense for it to be a fairly high portion of highways, since Iowa has historically put a heavy emphasis on route continuity with neighboring states (To the point where the original establishment of Iowa's highway system in 1920 prioritized route continuity over creating a numbering system).
There's also IA 92 and NE 92, part of the very important multi-state route from Torrington, WY to La Moille, IL.

SD:

SD-MT:
SD 20 to MT S-328

SD-WY:
SD 34 to WY 24 (note, this used to be SD 24 when the systems were first made, but SD extended 34 over it and got rid of the number continuity)

SD-NE:
SD 71 to NE 71 (note, this is out of the SD grid but was kept as part of MSR 71)
SD 407 to NE 87
SD 391 to NE 27
SD 73 to NE 61
SD 47 to NE 137
SD 43 to NE 11
SD 37 to NE 14
SD 19 to NE 15

SD-IA:
SD 50 to IA 3
SD 48 to IA 403 (formerly)
SD 46 to IA 10
SD 42 to IA 9

SD-MN:
SD 11 to MN 269
SD 34 to MN 30
SD 30 to MN 19
SD 28 to MN 271
SD 22 to MN 68
SD 20 to MN 40
SD 10 to MN 28

SD-ND
SD 127 to ND 127 (probably ND keeping the number, since this fits SD's numbering system)
SD 25 to ND 18
SD 27 to ND 32
SD 37 to ND 1
SD 45 to ND 3
SD 1804 to ND 1804 (Dakota River Roads, doesn't really count)
SD 63 to ND 6
SD 65 to ND 31
SD 73 to ND 49
SD 75 to ND 8
SD 79 to ND 22

I seem to be picking up a theme here. States that organize their state highway numbers based on a grid (like Florida, Indiana, and South Dakota) or by numerical ranges based on the county (like Nevada) tend not to have highways that keep their numbers across the state line - which I suppose makes sense, given that those states are all doing their own thing, presumably without regard to what numbers the neighboring states have given the roads. In your opinion, does my assessment seem right?
Yeah seems legit, WY numbers their road by county as well and there's really no carryover there either except for WY/MT 59, which just so happens to be in the "50-69" county in WY (Campbell).
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Scott5114

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I seem to be picking up a theme here. States that organize their state highway numbers based on a grid (like Florida, Indiana, and South Dakota) or by numerical ranges based on the county (like Nevada) tend not to have highways that keep their numbers across the state line - which I suppose makes sense, given that those states are all doing their own thing, presumably without regard to what numbers the neighboring states have given the roads. In your opinion, does my assessment seem right?

Depends.  That state could be doing its own thing, but the neighboring states might still strive for continuity.  Or it might not even be a clear either-or situation.

[...]


Given that Oklahoma has never had much of a state route numbering system, we've been one of the most accommodating states when it comes to renumbering to match surrounding states. We've gone to extremes to do this, such as duplicating numbers that already exist (37, 4) and renumbering routes that extend halfway across the state (152, which was originally 41 and got renumbered to match TX-152). We even renumbered the only state highway that connects with New Mexico to match theirs, 325...and then they renumbered theirs to 456. Jerks.
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ethanhopkin14

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I'll do Texas:

Only the ones that retain the number.

Clockwise from Anthony:

TX-18 to NM-18
TX-128 to NM-128
The curious case of FM-769 that is State Line Road.  Is there half a Farm-to-Market road in New Mexico
TX-125 to NM-125
TX-114 to NM-114
(BL-40 doesn't even continue into New Mexico!!)
TX-136 to OK-136
TX-15 to OK-15
TX-33 to OK-33
TX-152 to OK-152
TX-6 to OK-6
TX-79 to OK-79
TX-78 to OK-78
TX-37 to OK-37
TX Loop 151 to AR-151
TX-12 to LA-12
TX-82 to LA-82



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dvferyance

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WI-83 becomes IL-83
WI-78 becomes IL-78
WI-35 becomes IL-35 (The former is the longest in the state the latter the shortest in the state.)
WI-70 becomes MN-70
WI-243 becomes MN-243
At one time WI-80 became IL-80 but Illinios renumbered it because of I-80.
When WI-42 reached Illinios it became IL-42. Both have since been renumbered.
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roadfro

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Nevada (4/17)

Oregon border (1/2)
NV 140/OR 140
NV 292/county road in Harney County

Idaho border (0/1)
NV 225/ID 51

California border (3/10)
NV 28/CA 28
NV 88/CA 88
NV 338/CA 182
NV 359/CA 167
NV 264/CA 266
NV 266/CA 266
NV 267/NPS road in Death Valley N.P.
NV 373/CA 127
NV 372/CA 178
NV 164/County road in San Bernardino County

Utah border (0/3)
NV 233/UT 30
NV 487/UT 21
NV 319/UT 56

Arizona border (0/1)
NV 163/AZ 95

The current count for Nevada may be four, but historically there were two more:
  • Present-day SR 225 was numbered SR 51 prior to 1976, so there was NV 51/ID 51. (Note that Nevada changed what had been a portion of SR 11 and the entirety of SR 43 to create SR 51 circa 1964-1965, presumably to match Idaho. SR 51 was changed to SR 225 circa 1976 due to the statewide renumbering.)
  • Present-day SR 233 was numbered SR 30 prior to 1976, so there was NV 30/UT 30. (On the Utah side, the route was previously UT 70 and they changed to match Nevada circa 1966. Nevada changed circa 1976 due to the statewide renumbering.)
I seem to be picking up a theme here. States that organize their state highway numbers based on a grid (like Florida, Indiana, and South Dakota) or by numerical ranges based on the county (like Nevada) tend not to have highways that keep their numbers across the state line - which I suppose makes sense, given that those states are all doing their own thing, presumably without regard to what numbers the neighboring states have given the roads. In your opinion, does my assessment seem right?

Yes, to an extent.

At least for Nevada, it is interesting that three of the four numbers currently carried into adjoining states are on route numbers that existed prior to the 1976 state highway renumbering: 28, 88 & 140. Given the county-clustering number method that was adopted during the renumbering, NDOT specifically retained these three pre-1976 numbers despite the numbers not fitting in to the new cluster scheme (although SR 140 was originally planned to become SR 291 during renumbering).

So that shows there was some desire for some route number continuity with other states on Nevada's part. SR 28 & SR 88 made sense given the regional travel around the Lake Tahoe region, and SR 140 was the number advocated for the "Winnemucca to the Sea" highway. I suppose there wasn't as much tourism concern with 30/233 and 51/225 then, because otherwise it would have been simple enough to retain those numbers post-renumbering as well...
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jemacedo9

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PA:

PA/OH
PA 226/OH 84
198/167
285/85
58/5
358/88
718/305
318/304
317/630
108/unnumbered
351/617
51/14
251/154
68/39

PA/WV
unnumbered/105
unnumbered/Alt 27
844/27
331/67
21/891
18/69
218/218
43/43
857/857
381/unnumbered
281/26

PA/MD
unnumbered/42
669/669
unnumbered/546
160/47
96/35
326/unnumbered
26/unnumbered
655/unnumbered
928/unnumbered
unnumbered/615
456/unnumbered
75/494
416/unnumbered
63/163
316/60
997/64
16/140
134/unnumbered
194/194
97/97
94/30
516/86
unnumbered/45
24/23
unnumbered/24
unnumbered/624
74/165
unnumbered/623
272/272
841/213
896/unsigned 896

PA/DE
unnumbered/7
41/41
82/82
52/52
unnumbered (former 100)/100
261/261
491/491

PA/NJ
unnumbered/90
73/73
413/413
179/179
263/unnumbered
unnumbered/12?
unnumbered/94?
739/unnumbered

PA/NY
434/55?
652/52
371/unnumbered
191/unnumbered
92/79
unnumbered/7A
29/7
167/unnumbered
267/26
858/unnumbered
187/282
199/34
14/14
328/328
249/36
244/248A
449/19
44/unnumbered
446/305
646/16
346/280
69/unnumbered
958/unnumbered
426/426
474/474
430/430
5/5





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7/8

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Ontario: Matching numbers in bold.

MB/ON:
MB TCH 1 / ON 17

MN/ON:
MN 72 / ON 11 (though MN 11 is very close to the border crossing)
US 53&71 / ON 71
MN 61 / ON 61


MI/ON:
I-69&94 / ON 402
Connection to I-75 / ON 3

NY/ON:
NY 384 / ON 420
I-190 / ON 405
I-81 / ON 137
NY 812 / ON 16

QC/ON:
A-20 / ON 401
A-40 / ON 417
Connection to QC 344 / ON 34
QC 148 / ON 148
QC 101 / ON 63
Connection to QC 101 / ON 65
QC 117 / ON 66
QC 388 / ON 101
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Flint1979

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WI-83 becomes IL-83
WI-78 becomes IL-78
WI-35 becomes IL-35 (The former is the longest in the state the latter the shortest in the state.)
WI-70 becomes MN-70
WI-243 becomes MN-243
At one time WI-80 became IL-80 but Illinios renumbered it because of I-80.
When WI-42 reached Illinios it became IL-42. Both have since been renumbered.
It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.
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IowaTraveler

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Here are the results for Iowa:

IA-MN:
Formerly, IA 91 & MN 91
IA 60 & MN 60
IA 86 & MN 86
IA 4 & MN 4
IA 15 & MN 15

IA 27
IA 139 & MN 139
IA 76 & MN 76
IA 26 & MN 26


IA-WI:
IA 9 & WI 82

IA-IL:
IA 64 & IL 64
IA 136 & IL 136
IA 92 & IL 92

IA 163
Formerly, IA 2 & IL 9

IA-MO:
IA 27 & MO 27
IA 81 & MO 81
IA 202 & MO 202
IA 5 & MO 5
IA 148 & MO 148


IA-NE:
IA 2 & NE 2
IA 165 & Abbott Drive
IA 175 & NE 51

IA-SD:
IA 3 & SD 50
Formerly, IA 403 & SD 48
IA 10 & SD 46
IA 9 & SD 42

Out of the 24 current state highways in Iowa that cross a border, 16 of them keep their number in the neighboring state (So, 2/3 of them). It makes sense for it to be a fairly high portion of highways, since Iowa has historically put a heavy emphasis on route continuity with neighboring states (To the point where the original establishment of Iowa's highway system in 1920 prioritized route continuity over creating a numbering system).

There's also IA 92 and NE 92, part of the very important multi-state route from Torrington, WY to La Moille, IL.

Thanks for the correction. I've fixed my post. I don't know how I managed to miss that one, especially since I was thinking about Hwy 92's four-state continuity while writing that post. :-/
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OracleUsr

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You mentioned NC on the VA side but there are quite a few on the SC side too:

NC/GA/SC/GA 28
NC/SC 18
NC/SC 49
NC/SC 38
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TheHighwayMan394

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It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.

MN 20 is another such road unworthy of a low number, running just 7 miles from MN 19 to MN 50.
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US 89

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    • Utah Highways

It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.

See, in Utah the general rule is that anything big has a low number (2-digit, generally), but the opposite is not necessarily true. There are seven 1/2-digit routes less than two miles long, and SR 93 barely breaks a quarter mile. So for me, putting a high number on some long highway is far weirder than a low number on a short one.

Most of that is due to deletion and reassignment of those lower numbers, but there are some holdovers from the original weak number clustering scheme which more or less increased numbers from SW to NE. SR 17, 22, and 25 are all original routes that seem like they should belong on bigger/longer roads.

roadman65

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I think itís hilarious that in post number 61 he lists IA 2 becoming NE 2.  :bigass:
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Bickendan

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WI-83 becomes IL-83
WI-78 becomes IL-78
WI-35 becomes IL-35 (The former is the longest in the state the latter the shortest in the state.)
WI-70 becomes MN-70
WI-243 becomes MN-243
At one time WI-80 became IL-80 but Illinios renumbered it because of I-80.
When WI-42 reached Illinios it became IL-42. Both have since been renumbered.
It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.
WA 35 is literally the Washington half of the Hood River Bridge and the roadway to WA 14 on the north shore of the Columbia, but it's unsigned and just as a continuation of OR 35, which IIRC officially doesn't go north of I-84.
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WI-83 becomes IL-83
WI-78 becomes IL-78
WI-35 becomes IL-35 (The former is the longest in the state the latter the shortest in the state.)
WI-70 becomes MN-70
WI-243 becomes MN-243
At one time WI-80 became IL-80 but Illinios renumbered it because of I-80.
When WI-42 reached Illinios it became IL-42. Both have since been renumbered.
It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.
WA 35 is literally the Washington half of the Hood River Bridge and the roadway to WA 14 on the north shore of the Columbia, but it's unsigned and just as a continuation of OR 35, which IIRC officially doesn't go north of I-84.

CT 35 is also a short extension from another state (NY), but the length ratio is only 4:1.
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cockroachking

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WI-83 becomes IL-83
WI-78 becomes IL-78
WI-35 becomes IL-35 (The former is the longest in the state the latter the shortest in the state.)
WI-70 becomes MN-70
WI-243 becomes MN-243
At one time WI-80 became IL-80 but Illinios renumbered it because of I-80.
When WI-42 reached Illinios it became IL-42. Both have since been renumbered.
It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.
WA 35 is literally the Washington half of the Hood River Bridge and the roadway to WA 14 on the north shore of the Columbia, but it's unsigned and just as a continuation of OR 35, which IIRC officially doesn't go north of I-84.

CT 35 is also a short extension from another state (NY), but the length ratio is only 4:1.
CT-55 is approximately 46.4:1 with NY-55.
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roadman65

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What really should be how many roads keep their number out of the many that cross a border to those that donít excluding New England of course as almost all numbers keep continuity.

In NJ surprisingly there are only a few along the long stretch of Delaware River with PA. NY has four ( five it you count Route 440 twice) but many other roads cross but change.  NY 45 is most Bizarre as it donít become anything but a named road in NJ.  Some NJ 500 routes become named roads in NY and a few become NY state numbers like CR 501, 503, and 505 as well as CR 511 with the rest being interstate or US routes or NJ 495 that is questionable being NY 495 isnít signed in Manhattan.   NJ 23 becomes County in NY the opposite of other cross state roads.

Maybe a ratio thread should be created to show the percentage.
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WI-83 becomes IL-83
WI-78 becomes IL-78
WI-35 becomes IL-35 (The former is the longest in the state the latter the shortest in the state.)
WI-70 becomes MN-70
WI-243 becomes MN-243
At one time WI-80 became IL-80 but Illinios renumbered it because of I-80.
When WI-42 reached Illinios it became IL-42. Both have since been renumbered.
It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.

IL35 > CO35

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Interstates & freeways clinched: 16, 78, 87 (NY), 97, 287, 295 (NJ/PA/DE), 676, ACE, GSP

Bruce

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technically, WA 433 physically enters Oregon and ends where the roadway makes land fall just north of the US 30 interchange

Wait, so WSDOT somehow maintains the ramps leading up to US 30?

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It seems strange that a state would use a highway number like 35 for such a short highway.

MN 20 is another such road unworthy of a low number, running just 7 miles from MN 19 to MN 50.

This could change if MnDOT ever decides to reroute US 61 onto 316.  My read of the Constitutional Route descriptions suggests that they'd have to keep the leg of existing 61 between 50 and Hastings on the system.
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technically, WA 433 physically enters Oregon and ends where the roadway makes land fall just north of the US 30 interchange

Wait, so WSDOT somehow maintains the ramps leading up to US 30?
ODOT has the ramps and the road on the physical Oregon soil, no ORH number or all part of ORH 92/US 30 maintanence. WA 433 is the bridge deck itself on the Oregon side.
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