What is "The South?"

[kurumi]

One "ha ha only serious" take I've heard is that the south is anywhere more than X miles from a Whole Foods.

[hbelkins]

The Missouri bootheel -- heck, pretty much all the area south of Cape Girardeau and east of that ridgeline between Sikeston and Poplar Bluff -- gives off a positively Delta feel.

[bing101]

San Francisco after St. Francis of Assisi which is ironic considering the city is the most far from Catholic values with it being the capital of things from Acid Rock to the LGBT movement.

Same with San Jose named after St. Joseph and Sacramento named after "The Sacrament" all Catholic references when Spain and Mexico had "Alta California"

But when you go to San Jose in real life it's all about whatever the latest news on the VC community is hyping about.
Sacramento carries some of the Ex-San Francisco residents and make them mainstream as seen above.

[triplemultiplex]

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.

[CoreySamson]

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.

Take out everything north of the Mason-Dixon Line in Ohio and Indiana, and the parts of central Missouri (plus the random section of the OK panhandle). Then that would be a pretty accurate map of the south.

[skluth]

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.

Take out everything north of the Mason-Dixon Line in Ohio and Indiana, and the parts of central Missouri (plus the random section of the OK panhandle). Then that would be a pretty accurate map of the south.

I agree. Make the Missouri line at I-44 and exclude St Louis city and county. Even that southern part of Illinois with Waffle Houses feels more Southern than Midwestern. The only thing I'd add is the I-64 corridor in Virginia; basically everything south of Fredericksburg in Virginia is Southern.

[J N Winkler]

Colorado must be in the South, since Wikipedia reports it has 10 Waffle House locations.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Colorado must be in the South, since Wikipedia reports it has 10 Waffle House locations.

I don't think it's a one/other, just which one is more prevalent in a given location. Colorado has 36 IHOPs to the 10 Waffle Houses.

https://restaurants.ihop.com/en-us/co/

[Dirt Roads]

In the South, you'all know how to roast the whole pig.  In West Virginia, the only folks fixin' the whole pig invited the Governor.  But they made sure it was smoked with applewood.

[kphoger]

I agree. Make the Missouri line at I-44 and exclude St Louis city and county. Even that southern part of Illinois with Waffle Houses feels more Southern than Midwestern.

I-44 is a decent dividing line for Missouri, I think.  Springfield is a lot less Southern than Branson, for example.  I've never spent time between I-44 and US-60 in the central part of the state, though, to know if the latter might be a better dividing line.  Sikeston does seem Southern, but Chester (IL) does not.

As for southern Illinois, it's a transition zone.  Marion isn't very Southern at all, yet Paducah (KY) is.  Vienna and Dongola are so-so.

[Road Hog]

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.

Politically speaking, according to this map, Ohio and Indiana are right on point. Culturally speaking, it's a tougher call.

[kkt]

One "ha ha only serious" take I've heard is that the south is anywhere more than X miles from a Whole Foods.

or within Y miles of a Walmart?

[Ted$8roadFan]

One "ha ha only serious" take I've heard is that the south is anywhere more than X miles from a Whole Foods.

or within Y miles of a Walmart?

Since Walmarts are now everywhere, I'm not sure they're and indicator of the south.

[kkt]

We got a Whole Foods a lot closer than a Walmart...

[Road Hog]

I think there are two layers of the south: the deep south, and the Appalachian south. The Appalachian south gets extended down to the Ozarks and into Oklahoma to an extent.

[SSR_317]

I'm sorry, but NO part of ANY state NORTH of the Ohio River is in any way part of "The South". Yes, there are certainly southern INFLUENCES in parts of southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and southern Ohio, but to try and assert that any part of those three states is "The South" s just plain ignorant, IMO.

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.

[Rothman]

I'm sorry, but NO part of ANY state NORTH of the Ohio River is in any way part of "The South". Yes, there are certainly southern INFLUENCES in parts of southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and southern Ohio, but to try and assert that any part of those three states is "The South" s just plain ignorant, IMO.

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.

Ignorance is a two-way street in this case.

[JayhawkCO]

"I know you've lived in the Kansas City metro your whole life, and called yourself Midwestern, but, you have to stop now, due to something that happened in 1787. Thank you, no questions."

[hbelkins]

Illinois is midwestern. So is Indiana. And most of Ohio.

[Roadgeek Adam]

Illinois is midwestern technically geographically, but much of the state was developed by the southerners. A lot of southern influence running around. Williamson County was basically for a time being run by Seth Glenn Young and a lot of Klansmen.

What all this arguing reminds you is that all this is subjective to the person. Doesn't seem worth wasting the energy.

[skluth]

Illinois is midwestern technically geographically, but much of the state was developed by the southerners. A lot of southern influence running around. Williamson County was basically for a time being run by Seth Glenn Young and a lot of Klansmen.

What all this arguing reminds you is that all this is subjective to the person. Doesn't seem worth wasting the energy.

A less controversial example might be Lincoln who settled in Illinois by way of Central Kentucky.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.

This is where we need to remember geography and culture don't neatly overlap. Your argument can be distilled down to "these places are Midwestern but are in no way, shape, or form any part of the Midwest". How does that make sense?

[J N Winkler]

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.

I do.  While I consider the Old Northwest to be a distinct region of the Midwest, I do not consider it to be all of the Midwest, which also includes the frontier tier states from Kansas northward as well as the states between them and the Old Northwest.

[Scott5114]

Hell, if someone said parts of Oklahoma were Midwestern, I'd at least hear their argument for it. Kay County doesn't look too different from Illinois.

[US 89]

Hell, if someone said parts of Oklahoma were Midwestern, I'd at least hear their argument for it. Kay County doesn't look too different from Illinois.

Anywhere in Oklahoma north of I-40 and east of US 281 or so absolutely can make a claim for Midwestern. As I've mentioned on here before, Tulsa reminds me way more of Omaha or Kansas City than it does of Texas or anything in the South.  Oklahoma City does have a little more of that Texas feel, but even then, Dallas is really more Midwestern than anything else...