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Author Topic: What is "The South?"  (Read 9305 times)

kurumi

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2022, 12:23:19 PM »

One "ha ha only serious" take I've heard is that the south is anywhere more than X miles from a Whole Foods.
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hbelkins

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2022, 12:48:01 PM »

The Missouri bootheel -- heck, pretty much all the area south of Cape Girardeau and east of that ridgeline between Sikeston and Poplar Bluff -- gives off a positively Delta feel.
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bing101

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #127 on: December 02, 2022, 12:55:28 PM »

San Francisco after St. Francis of Assisi which is ironic considering the city is the most far from Catholic values with it being the capital of things from Acid Rock to the LGBT movement.
Same with San Jose named after St. Joseph and Sacramento named after "The Sacrament" all Catholic references when Spain and Mexico had "Alta California"

But when you go to San Jose in real life it's all about whatever the latest news on the VC community is hyping about.
Sacramento carries some of the Ex-San Francisco residents and make them mainstream as seen above.
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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2022, 02:45:08 PM »

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.
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CoreySamson

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2022, 03:18:46 PM »

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.
Take out everything north of the Mason-Dixon Line in Ohio and Indiana, and the parts of central Missouri (plus the random section of the OK panhandle). Then that would be a pretty accurate map of the south.

skluth

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2022, 05:11:18 PM »

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.
Take out everything north of the Mason-Dixon Line in Ohio and Indiana, and the parts of central Missouri (plus the random section of the OK panhandle). Then that would be a pretty accurate map of the south.

I agree. Make the Missouri line at I-44 and exclude St Louis city and county. Even that southern part of Illinois with Waffle Houses feels more Southern than Midwestern. The only thing I'd add is the I-64 corridor in Virginia; basically everything south of Fredericksburg in Virginia is Southern.
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J N Winkler

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #131 on: December 02, 2022, 06:53:21 PM »

Colorado must be in the South, since Wikipedia reports it has 10 Waffle House locations.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #132 on: December 02, 2022, 06:54:52 PM »

Colorado must be in the South, since Wikipedia reports it has 10 Waffle House locations.

I don't think it's a one/other, just which one is more prevalent in a given location. Colorado has 36 IHOPs to the 10 Waffle Houses.

https://restaurants.ihop.com/en-us/co/
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Dirt Roads

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #133 on: December 02, 2022, 06:57:54 PM »

In the South, you'all know how to roast the whole pig.  In West Virginia, the only folks fixin' the whole pig invited the Governor.  But they made sure it was smoked with applewood.
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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #134 on: December 02, 2022, 08:01:44 PM »

I agree. Make the Missouri line at I-44 and exclude St Louis city and county. Even that southern part of Illinois with Waffle Houses feels more Southern than Midwestern.

I-44 is a decent dividing line for Missouri, I think.  Springfield is a lot less Southern than Branson, for example.  I've never spent time between I-44 and US-60 in the central part of the state, though, to know if the latter might be a better dividing line.  Sikeston does seem Southern, but Chester (IL) does not.

As for southern Illinois, it's a transition zone.  Marion isn't very Southern at all, yet Paducah (KY) is.  Vienna and Dongola are so-so.
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Road Hog

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2022, 08:11:13 PM »

If you see more Waffle Houses than Ihop's, you're in The South.



Eh maybe not; Ohio screws it up.
Politically speaking, according to this map, Ohio and Indiana are right on point. Culturally speaking, it's a tougher call.
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kkt

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #136 on: December 02, 2022, 08:12:20 PM »

One "ha ha only serious" take I've heard is that the south is anywhere more than X miles from a Whole Foods.

or within Y miles of a Walmart?
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Ted$8roadFan

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #137 on: December 02, 2022, 09:59:05 PM »

One "ha ha only serious" take I've heard is that the south is anywhere more than X miles from a Whole Foods.

or within Y miles of a Walmart?

Since Walmarts are now everywhere, I’m not sure they’re and indicator of the south.
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kkt

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #138 on: December 02, 2022, 11:22:53 PM »

We got a Whole Foods a lot closer than a Walmart...
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Road Hog

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #139 on: December 02, 2022, 11:57:48 PM »

I think there are two layers of the south: the deep south, and the Appalachian south. The Appalachian south gets extended down to the Ozarks and into Oklahoma to an extent.
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SSR_317

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #140 on: December 03, 2022, 03:44:27 PM »

I'm sorry, but NO part of ANY state NORTH of the Ohio River is in any way part of "The South". Yes, there are certainly southern INFLUENCES in parts of southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and southern Ohio, but to try and assert that any part of those three states is "The South" s just plain ignorant, IMO.

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.
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Rothman

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #141 on: December 03, 2022, 06:30:29 PM »

I'm sorry, but NO part of ANY state NORTH of the Ohio River is in any way part of "The South". Yes, there are certainly southern INFLUENCES in parts of southern Illinois, southern Indiana, and southern Ohio, but to try and assert that any part of those three states is "The South" s just plain ignorant, IMO.

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.
Ignorance is a two-way street in this case.
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JayhawkCO

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #142 on: December 03, 2022, 07:28:31 PM »

"I know you've lived in the Kansas City metro your whole life, and called yourself Midwestern, but, you have to stop now, due to something that happened in 1787. Thank you, no questions."

hbelkins

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #143 on: December 03, 2022, 08:04:54 PM »

Illinois is midwestern. So is Indiana. And most of Ohio.
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Roadgeek Adam

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #144 on: December 03, 2022, 08:39:09 PM »

Illinois is midwestern technically geographically, but much of the state was developed by the southerners. A lot of southern influence running around. Williamson County was basically for a time being run by Seth Glenn Young and a lot of Klansmen.

What all this arguing reminds you is that all this is subjective to the person. Doesn't seem worth wasting the energy.
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skluth

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #145 on: December 04, 2022, 12:59:24 PM »

Illinois is midwestern technically geographically, but much of the state was developed by the southerners. A lot of southern influence running around. Williamson County was basically for a time being run by Seth Glenn Young and a lot of Klansmen.

What all this arguing reminds you is that all this is subjective to the person. Doesn't seem worth wasting the energy.

A less controversial example might be Lincoln who settled in Illinois by way of Central Kentucky.
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TheHighwayMan394

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #146 on: December 04, 2022, 05:29:34 PM »

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.

This is where we need to remember geography and culture don't neatly overlap. Your argument can be distilled down to "these places are Midwestern but are in no way, shape, or form any part of the Midwest". How does that make sense?
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J N Winkler

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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #147 on: December 04, 2022, 06:51:35 PM »

Furthermore, no state that was NOT part of the original Northwest Territory of the USA (Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and parts of Minnesota) can be considered to be in "The Midwest" or Midwestern. The Mississippi and Ohio Rivers are the diving lines there (except in northern Minnesota). So sorry Iowa, Missouri, and Kentucky (and Great Plains states like the rest of Minnesota, the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska) but you're not part of our region. All or parts of those states may have quite strong "Midwestern influences", but they are NOT a part of "The Midwest".

Feel free to disagree, if you feel you must do so.

I do.  While I consider the Old Northwest to be a distinct region of the Midwest, I do not consider it to be all of the Midwest, which also includes the frontier tier states from Kansas northward as well as the states between them and the Old Northwest.
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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #148 on: December 04, 2022, 07:06:32 PM »

Hell, if someone said parts of Oklahoma were Midwestern, I'd at least hear their argument for it. Kay County doesn't look too different from Illinois.
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Re: What is "The South?"
« Reply #149 on: December 04, 2022, 07:11:53 PM »

Hell, if someone said parts of Oklahoma were Midwestern, I'd at least hear their argument for it. Kay County doesn't look too different from Illinois.

Anywhere in Oklahoma north of I-40 and east of US 281 or so absolutely can make a claim for Midwestern. As I've mentioned on here before, Tulsa reminds me way more of Omaha or Kansas City than it does of Texas or anything in the South.  Oklahoma City does have a little more of that Texas feel, but even then, Dallas is really more Midwestern than anything else...

 


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