Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[tdindy88]

I-69 ends at Morgan St. technically. Just north of SR 44. but on the books it ends at 44, since interstates have to end at an arterial per fed rules.

Undoubtedly, the same would be true at SR 144.

Good to hear. So, though you have exits being built north of Martinsville, with I-69 mile markers, I-69 ends at SR-44. It's still funny with the different style of mile marker others have noted upthread. Maybe different contractors working with INDOT with what's done in their district? I don't know, but Bloomington - Indianapolis is not that long to have those different markers on a newly constructed interstate (as oppose to a resurfacing project).

The mile markers on I-69 from the split with SR 37 south in Bloomington up to Martinsville will need to be cleaned up at some point. It don't matter if they're in the median or on the side but they should be consistent with either the blue enhanced markers used in urban/subuuran areas or the green mile and half mile markers used on the rest of I-69 south of Bloomington.

I saw something interesting in the posted INDOT STIP projects that someone mentioned on the Indiana thread a few weeks ago. There is funding in place for a final updating of signage along I-69. The project mentions  "PR-69 from RP 0+0 to RP 135+0
: Final signing for new Interstate 69."  I'm hoping this means adding mileage signs and changing the northbound control city to Indianapolis. The timing for this project appears to be 2023 and 2024 so this would seem likely. There's also another plan for adding ITS along most of I-69 from Evansville up to Martinsville so at some point there should be traffic cameras along that entire highway.

I'm planning on checking out the Martinsville I-69 on Christmas Eve so I'm happy to hear southbound is opening too. I'm still going to beat the drum that Exit 140 should be mentioning the control destinations of Morgantown and Franklin from SR 252 and 44 respectively. It may not change and I'll live with it but I still think that's more important information for those traveling than Reuben and Hospital Drives.

[silverback1065]

I-69 ends at Morgan St. technically. Just north of SR 44. but on the books it ends at 44, since interstates have to end at an arterial per fed rules.

Undoubtedly, the same would be true at SR 144.

Good to hear. So, though you have exits being built north of Martinsville, with I-69 mile markers, I-69 ends at SR-44. It's still funny with the different style of mile marker others have noted upthread. Maybe different contractors working with INDOT with what's done in their district? I don't know, but Bloomington - Indianapolis is not that long to have those different markers on a newly constructed interstate (as oppose to a resurfacing project).

The mile markers on I-69 from the split with SR 37 south in Bloomington up to Martinsville will need to be cleaned up at some point. It don't matter if they're in the median or on the side but they should be consistent with either the blue enhanced markers used in urban/subuuran areas or the green mile and half mile markers used on the rest of I-69 south of Bloomington.

I saw something interesting in the posted INDOT STIP projects that someone mentioned on the Indiana thread a few weeks ago. There is funding in place for a final updating of signage along I-69. The project mentions  "PR-69 from RP 0+0 to RP 135+0
: Final signing for new Interstate 69."  I'm hoping this means adding mileage signs and changing the northbound control city to Indianapolis. The timing for this project appears to be 2023 and 2024 so this would seem likely. There's also another plan for adding ITS along most of I-69 from Evansville up to Martinsville so at some point there should be traffic cameras along that entire highway.

I'm planning on checking out the Martinsville I-69 on Christmas Eve so I'm happy to hear southbound is opening too. I'm still going to beat the drum that Exit 140 should be mentioning the control destinations of Morgantown and Franklin from SR 252 and 44 respectively. It may not change and I'll live with it but I still think that's more important information for those traveling than Reuben and Hospital Drives.

I wonder if they have signs for Morgantown and Franklin at the bottom of the ramp 

[Great Lakes Roads]

I-69 is now open in the SB direction in Martinsville.

[cjw2001]

I-69 is now open in the SB direction in Martinsville.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/INDOT/bulletins/30250b9

[mukade]

I took a quick run down to Martinsville this morning to see the newest section of I-69. As discussed earlier in this thread, the mile markers are very inconsistent in this stretch from the north end of section 5 up to SR 144. This is a summary of what I saw.

Location	Type	Color	Interval	Placement
Section 5 (existing I-69)	Intermediate (no shield or cardinal direction)	Green	.5 miles	Right shoulder
Between north end of section 5 and SR 39	Enhanced with no fractional number on full miles	Blue	.5 miles	Right shoulder
Martinsville new section (SR 39 to Morgan St.)	Enhanced	Green	.5 miles	Median
North of Morgan St. to MM 151	Enhanced	Blue	.5 miles	Right shoulder
From MM 151 north to SR 144	Enhanced	Blue	.2 miles	Right shoulder

The little mile markers that mark bridges were also green where the green enhanced reference markers existed in Martinsville. That makes me think the green ones are a mistake.

I Googled trying to find some of the history behind the history of the enhanced reference markers. This report on the evaluation of reference markers describes some of the issues and discussions that occurred back in the late 1990s. This particular document is from the Kentucky Transportation Center. One finding about the color choice is the following:

The results of this preliminary evaluation were reported and there was a general consensus that the "white on blue" markers could be more distinguishable and could serve to supplement the standard milepost marker which has traditionally been "white on green" in conformance with concept that the information presented serves as guide sign-type information.

Back to I-69.... other highlights from my quick drive down to Martinsville today:

• Going south, construction begins at Epler St. less than a mile south of I-465
• In one form or another, there is construction from there all the way down to Martinsville
• Southbound traffic from SR 144 to Martinsville is still one lane.
• Northbound from Martinsville, the first traffic signal is at Banta Rd at the Johnson/Morgan County line
• The speed limit is 45 from the north end of Martinsville north. Almost everyone was exceeding it by 10-20 mph

[silverback1065]

I drove mainline and every movement today. SB could realistically be signed I-69 south of Banta Road (Not the Marion County Banta Road). NB can only be signed to up Morgan St. I am basing this on if there were any drive crossings, not official Fed rules. NB the "Freeway Ends" sign is in a weird place, on the right side of the C/D ramps. Everything is pretty nice though, SR 39 is extremely confusing now, once it is done it will be much easier to drive. I also drove the Henderson Ford Road interchange, that roundabout is weird... Everything is extremely tight and they use panel signs in the roundabout for some reason. ML SB needs a couple of signs, some of the exit signs are on temp wood poles now. the side roads need a lot of work, they arent close to completely done.

[mukade]

I drove mainline and every movement today. SB could realistically be signed I-69 south of Banta Road (Not the Marion County Banta Road). NB can only be signed to up Morgan St. I am basing this on if there were any drive crossings, not official Fed rules. NB the "Freeway Ends" sign is in a weird place, on the right side of the C/D ramps. Everything is pretty nice though, SR 39 is extremely confusing now, once it is done it will be much easier to drive. I also drove the Henderson Ford Road interchange, that roundabout is weird... Everything is extremely tight and they use panel signs in the roundabout for some reason. ML SB needs a couple of signs, some of the exit signs are on temp wood poles now. the side roads need a lot of work, they arent close to completely done.

I wouldn't think it would be appropriate for it to be signed north of Martinsville because:
- There is at least one remaining driveway (for a church)
- There is no interchange with a state highway north of SR 44
- Two overpasses are not close to completion
- Whatever is happening at Banta Rd hasn't even started yet

To me, there are too many hazards that will remain in place for the next year.

[tdindy88]

I took a quick run down to Martinsville this morning to see the newest section of I-69. As discussed earlier in this thread, the mile markers are very inconsistent in this stretch from the north end of section 5 up to SR 144. This is a summary of what I saw.

Location	Type	Color	Interval	Placement
Section 5 (existing I-69)	Intermediate (no shield or cardinal direction)	Green	.5 miles	Right shoulder
Between north end of section 5 and SR 39	Enhanced with no fractional number on full miles	Blue	.5 miles	Right shoulder
Martinsville new section (SR 39 to Morgan St.)	Enhanced	Green	.5 miles	Median
North of Morgan St. to MM 151	Enhanced	Blue	.5 miles	Right shoulder
From MM 151 north to SR 144	Enhanced	Blue	.2 miles	Right shoulder

The Section 5 mile markers (from the SR 37 interchange north to SR 39) are even more inconsistent.

The mile markers for full miles look like this: https://goo.gl/maps/arMWjVtn7Qr1bBna6
The mile markers for half-miles look like this: https://goo.gl/maps/gPbxzPjzsnCSNNnr7

For the love of God I do not know why they have to be this. They should all just be the normal green mile markers for miles and half-miles the same as I-69 from Bloomington south to I-64

Martinsville north to probably Smith Valley Rd should have the enhanced blue mile markers at ever .2 mile. No different from I-69 from Fishers to Anderson today. North of Smith Valley Rd should just be the blue mile markers at ever .1 mile. And none of these enhanced mile markers that are green, we're not Michigan or Missouri.

[mukade]

That now makes more sense. I thought those goofy sorta-enhanced markers were only at the very north end of section 5, but apparently they alternate every half mile north of Bloomington. The reason? We can speculate because section 5 was started as a PPP project, that company did not abide by INDOT standards, and they probably did not have any half mile markers. To complete the speculation: INDOT installed these half mile markers after they took control of the project.

It would be the same situation as with the ITR and the East End Partners (SR 265) projects. In both of those cases, we see some weird signage and the use of the Clearview font.

[SSR_317]

From Southport Rd south looks to be OK unless the empty airport-owned land where the future runway will be built counts. Even for that, it looks like the 5 mile radius for the closest point is about a quarter mile south if Google Maps distance measurement is right.

future runway? where?

Look at Google Sat view. There is a strip of undeveloped land, about the size of a runway, on the south side of I-70 from the current airport southernmost runway

If/when developed, there will be at least one taxiway aircraft overpass built over I-70

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Decatur+Township,+IN/@39.6999843,-86.2960295,13z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x886ca756bb94faa7:0x5e5731a06739c1af

Yes, that "undeveloped land" is the site reserved by the Indianapolis Airport Authority (the landowner) for a future 3rd SW-NE parallel runway at IND. When I-70 was rebuilt to accommodate the new midfield passenger terminal in the mid-2000s, the alignment of the Interstate was shifted slightly east to exactly parallel the existing runways and its elevation was lowered slightly in the area where a connecting taxiway will someday be built to bridge over the freeway and provide aircraft access to that proposed runway. Subsequent development surrounding the property southeast of I-70 has been limited to uses that are compatible with being adjacent to a major airport runway.

[SSR_317]

Another look south from near the SR 44 overpass in Martinsville.

Is that a mistake? I thought IN 44 only went eastbound from this intersection.

Well, the State Road does run east from the intersection of the southbound I-69 ramps, so as this sign appears to be just east of that point, it's technically correct (the BEST kind of correct  ). But I agree, it is at best a bit misleading!

[Ryctor2018]

https://twitter.com/I69FinishLine/status/1476267545321783298

[CoolAngrybirdsrio4]

https://twitter.com/I69FinishLine/status/1476267545321783298

I wondered as to why I-69 northbound has 3 lanes while southbound had only 2 lanes, but I was thinking about the exit with IN 44 and what not.

[tdindy88]

Northbound I-69 is going uphill. That third lane is just a climbing lane.

[abqtraveler]

Northbound I-69 is going uphill. That third lane is just a climbing lane.

Seems like INDOT is really fixated on building "dogbone" interchanges as of late. Not only on the I-69 extension, but they've also converted a number of interchanges on existing freeways to this type of configuration.

[SkyPesos]

Northbound I-69 is going uphill. That third lane is just a climbing lane.

Seems like INDOT is really fixated on building "dogbone" interchanges as of late. Not only on the I-69 extension, but they've also converted a number of interchanges on existing freeways to this type of configuration.

Lots of them in Carmel, from both US 31 and Keystone Pkwy.

[silverback1065]

Northbound I-69 is going uphill. That third lane is just a climbing lane.

Seems like INDOT is really fixated on building "dogbone" interchanges as of late. Not only on the I-69 extension, but they've also converted a number of interchanges on existing freeways to this type of configuration.

It's on purpose, INDOT's priority is to consider these alternative interchanges 1st before trying a traditional one.

[tdindy88]

If I recall the Ohio Street interchange in Martinsville was supposed to be a roundabout style interchange but they changed it to a tight diamond, so I believe it can go the other way. I believe only Southport Road interchange and the half interchange at Epler are not going to be roundabouts. I think this is the right call. Had I-69 been designed a few years later I suspect some of the exits south of Crane would have featured roundabouts as well: SR 168, SR 64 (maybe,) SR 58 and SR 45.

[Bobby5280]

I'm guessing the dogbones in those diamond interchanges are intended to be a traffic calming measure. I see people blow through intersections at the ends of ramps in normal diamond interchanges without stopping all the time. They're either driving on the crossing surface street and not stopping. Or it's a motorist that got off at the wrong exit; he speeds straight through the end of the off-ramp and onto the facing on-ramp.

Various roundabout designs can disrupt such behavior from motorists if they're paying attention to the road. The Milwaukee Roundabout has so many crashes it has its own YouTube channel. It is starting to rival the 11 Foot 8 Bridge YouTube channel. The "11 Foot 8 Bridge" is the railroad bridge in Durham, NC famous for peeling off tops of box trucks whose drivers fail to notice the warning signs, flashing lights, etc. Norfolk-Southern raised the bridge 8 inches, but can-opener accidents are still happening. Anyway, so many crashes at that roundabout in Milwaukee that it's now gaining similar attention online. Some of the crashes are pretty spectacular (and funny).

[Life in Paradise]

Did a roundtrip to Indianapolis yesterday from Evansville.  Was surprised at how much had been completed, but was slightly frustrated on the way back that for quite a long ways south bound though the road was paved there was just one lane available for travel (I know, the other lane is being used for work traffic).

[jakeroot]

Northbound I-69 is going uphill. That third lane is just a climbing lane.

Seems like INDOT is really fixated on building "dogbone" interchanges as of late. Not only on the I-69 extension, but they've also converted a number of interchanges on existing freeways to this type of configuration.

Lots of them in Carmel, from both US 31 and Keystone Pkwy.

I believe the roundabouts in Carmel were primarily the work of the City of Carmel as opposed to INDOT (regardless of who owns/operates the road). I believe I remember reading that the original Keystone Pkwy rebuild was to be entirely diamond interchanges with signals at the ramp terminals, but Carmel pushed hard to make them the compact roundabouts we see today; evidently they were successful.

[silverback1065]

Northbound I-69 is going uphill. That third lane is just a climbing lane.

Seems like INDOT is really fixated on building "dogbone" interchanges as of late. Not only on the I-69 extension, but they've also converted a number of interchanges on existing freeways to this type of configuration.

Lots of them in Carmel, from both US 31 and Keystone Pkwy.

I believe the roundabouts in Carmel were primarily the work of the City of Carmel as opposed to INDOT (regardless of who owns/operates the road). I believe I remember reading that the original Keystone Pkwy rebuild was to be entirely diamond interchanges with signals at the ramp terminals, but Carmel pushed hard to make them the compact roundabouts we see today; evidently they were successful.

That's what they wanted for 31. INDOT just wanted to add a lane in each direction on 431. Carmel hated the idea and offered to take the road for themselves, so INDOT just gave it to them.

[silverback1065]

I-69 is now signed up to SR 144 according to google maps 

[sprjus4]

I-69 is now signed up to SR 144 according to google maps 

Google Maps also says SR-37 is a full freeway between Martinsville and Indianapolis.

[SkyPesos]

I-69 is now signed up to SR 144 according to google maps 

No ramps still though...