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Interstate 81 in Syracuse

Started by The Ghostbuster, May 25, 2016, 03:37:19 PM

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amroad17

I can post an unofficial list.  The list will have a current exit number first and the unofficial mile-based exit number after...

I-81: 1/4; 2/8; 3 NB/9; 3 SB/12; 4A,4B/13A,13B; 5/14; *(I-88)/15; 6/16; 7/21; 8/29; 9/38; 10/50; 11/52; 12/54; 13/63; 14/66; 15/73; 16/78; 16A/82
I-481: 1 SB/82; 1 NB/83; 2/85; 3/87; 4/88; 5/90; 6/91 (Thruway); 7/92; 8/95; 9/97
I-81: 29/97; 30/99; 31/103; 32/107; 33/115; 34/118; 35/122; 36/126; 37/132; 38/135; 39/137; 40/139; 41/144; 42/148; 43/150; 44/152; 45/156; 46/157; 47/159; 48/161; 48A/162; 49/173; 50/182; 51/184; 52/187

I-81's total mileage in New York would be approximately 188 miles after the re-route.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)


webny99

Quote from: amroad17 on May 05, 2024, 11:22:28 PMI can post an unofficial list.  The list will have a current exit number first and the unofficial mile-based exit number after...

I-81: ... 3 NB/9; 3 SB/12;

File that one under "Today I Learned...". I had never noticed that the half-diamonds at Broad St and Colesville Rd were both Exit 3. Will be good to get them each their own number with the switch to mile-based.

roadman65

Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2024, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 05, 2024, 11:22:28 PMI can post an unofficial list.  The list will have a current exit number first and the unofficial mile-based exit number after...

I-81: ... 3 NB/9; 3 SB/12;

File that one under "Today I Learned...". I had never noticed that the half-diamonds at Broad St and Colesville Rd were both Exit 3. Will be good to get them each their own number with the switch to mile-based.

Or at Pulaski, where there are two different interchanges with the same number as well.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

webny99

Quote from: roadman65 on May 08, 2024, 09:20:03 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2024, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 05, 2024, 11:22:28 PMI can post an unofficial list.  The list will have a current exit number first and the unofficial mile-based exit number after...

I-81: ... 3 NB/9; 3 SB/12;

File that one under "Today I Learned...". I had never noticed that the half-diamonds at Broad St and Colesville Rd were both Exit 3. Will be good to get them each their own number with the switch to mile-based.

Or at Pulaski, where there are two different interchanges with the same number as well.

Pulaski is basically just two halves of the same interchange, much like I-190 Exit 23 or I-390 Exit 11 without the frontage ramps.

The Exit 3's are almost three miles apart, completely independent of each other, and provide access to totally different areas. They're even facing each other, with each direction having an entrance ramp first, then an exit 2.5 miles later (><), rather than the the traditional exit/entrance configuration (<>), so it's hard to say they're related in any way.

The Ghostbuster

If they number NY 690's exits (to mileage-based, as they will to Interstate 81, Business 81, and NY 481) and continue them after reaching the Interstate 90/New York State Thruway, the exits would probably be like this:

NY 690 Exits

Exit 1: NY 370/NY 31 East
Exit 2: NY 31 West
Exit 5: Van Buren Rd.
Exit 6 (Old 1): Interstate 90/NYST

Interstate 690 Exits

Exit 7 [7A WB] (Old 2): Jones Rd.
Exit 7B [WB] (Old 3): NY 48 North/Farrell Rd.
Exit 8 (Old 4): John Glenn Blvd.
Exit 9 (Old 5): State Fair Blvd.
Exit 11 (Old 6): NY 695
Exit 12 (Old 7): NY 297
Exit 13 [EB] (Old 8): Hiawatha Blvd.
Exit 14 [EB] (Old 9): NY 298/Bear St.
Exit 14 [WB] (Old 10): N. Geddes St.
Exit 15A (Old 11): West St.
Exit 15B (Old 12): W. Genessee St.
Exit 16: (Old 13) Whatever configuration the ramps to Business 81 (and possibly Townsend St.) are reconstructed into
Exit 17 (Old 14): Teall Ave.
Exit 18 (Old 15): Midler Ave.
Exit 19AB (Old 16): NY 635/Thompson Rd.
Exit 19C (Old 17): Bridge St.
Exit 20AB (or left unnumbered): Interstate 81 (former Interstate 481)

Rothman

Heh.  Residents of Pulaski consider the interchanges partial...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on May 08, 2024, 01:25:14 PMHeh.  Residents of Pulaski consider the interchanges partial...

There's no doubt it's a pain to get around, but it is much more comparable to a single interchange than the Exit 3's in Binghamton

Henry

Quote from: amroad17 on May 05, 2024, 11:22:28 PMI can post an unofficial list.  The list will have a current exit number first and the unofficial mile-based exit number after...

I-81: 1/4; 2/8; 3 NB/9; 3 SB/12; 4A,4B/13A,13B; 5/14; *(I-88)/15; 6/16; 7/21; 8/29; 9/38; 10/50; 11/52; 12/54; 13/63; 14/66; 15/73; 16/78; 16A/82
I-481: 1 SB/82; 1 NB/83; 2/85; 3/87; 4/88; 5/90; 6/91 (Thruway); 7/92; 8/95; 9/97
I-81: 29/97; 30/99; 31/103; 32/107; 33/115; 34/118; 35/122; 36/126; 37/132; 38/135; 39/137; 40/139; 41/144; 42/148; 43/150; 44/152; 45/156; 46/157; 47/159; 48/161; 48A/162; 49/173; 50/182; 51/184; 52/187

I-81's total mileage in New York would be approximately 188 miles after the re-route.
According to Wikipedia, it's currently 183 miles, so the reroute would make it only five miles longer.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

amroad17

Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2024, 11:05:16 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 08, 2024, 09:20:03 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2024, 08:37:27 AM
Quote from: amroad17 on May 05, 2024, 11:22:28 PMI can post an unofficial list.  The list will have a current exit number first and the unofficial mile-based exit number after...

I-81: ... 3 NB/9; 3 SB/12;

File that one under "Today I Learned...". I had never noticed that the half-diamonds at Broad St and Colesville Rd were both Exit 3. Will be good to get them each their own number with the switch to mile-based.

Or at Pulaski, where there are two different interchanges with the same number as well.

Pulaski is basically just two halves of the same interchange, much like I-190 Exit 23 or I-390 Exit 11 without the frontage ramps.

The Exit 3's are almost three miles apart, completely independent of each other, and provide access to totally different areas. They're even facing each other, with each direction having an entrance ramp first, then an exit 2.5 miles later (><), rather than the the traditional exit/entrance configuration (<>), so it's hard to say they're related in any way.
I treated the two Pulaski partial interchanges, as well as the Hinman Corners (6) and Whitney Point (8) interchanges, similar to how Virginia signs the Lee Hall interchange (247) on I-64 where the milepost is between the two partial interchanges.  That is why 6 becomes 16 and 8 becomes 29.

The current Exit 3 situation on I-81 in Binghamton is a bit of a rarity.  It apparently was signed that way for continuity.
I don't need a GPS.  I AM the GPS! (for family and friends)

The Ghostbuster


Henry

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 17, 2024, 03:19:43 PMIt appears the third (of eight) contract for the Interstate 81 Viaduct Project has been awarded: https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/salt-city-constructors-wins-third-contract-for-i-81-viaduct-project/ar-BB1mA22K?ocid=BingNewsSearch.
Eight contracts? That would have to be the most expensive urban road project ever!
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Rothman

#1611
Quote from: Henry on May 17, 2024, 10:51:47 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 17, 2024, 03:19:43 PMIt appears the third (of eight) contract for the Interstate 81 Viaduct Project has been awarded: https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/salt-city-constructors-wins-third-contract-for-i-81-viaduct-project/ar-BB1mA22K?ocid=BingNewsSearch.
Eight contracts? That would have to be the most expensive urban road project ever!

*must not facepalm*

No, no it wouldn't.

The idea was to chop up the project into eight contracts to allow smaller firms to bid on them.  The project won't even come close to the most expensive projects this country has let overall.

And Contract 4's bid results are in:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/pls/portal/MEXIS_APP.BC_CONST_RESULT_ADMIN.VIEWFILE?p_id=63890
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Plutonic Panda

^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

Rothman

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2024, 12:14:12 AM^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

And if you think it's just about surface boulevards at this late point after all our discussions on this project (contracts 1 and 2 were Interstate interchange reconfigurations), you're just being a troll...The alternative is a stubborn ignoramus, but I give you more credit than that.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

sprjus4

#1614
Quote from: Rothman on May 18, 2024, 12:16:48 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2024, 12:14:12 AM^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

And if you think it's just about surface boulevards at this late point after all our discussions on this project (contracts 1 and 2 were Interstate interchange reconfigurations), you're just being a troll...The alternative is a stubborn ignoramus, but I give you more credit than that.
Still confused how 2 interchange reconfigurations and an urban boulevard comes over $2 billion, let alone $500 million at most - with the vast majority of that being the system interchanges.

Is I-481 being widened to six lanes throughout to handle additional traffic volumes? Are they building a new southwest connector freeway to fill the major gap incoming by removing the link? $2 billion is a lot... I'd be expecting these types of things with a price tag this high.

Rothman

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 18, 2024, 03:18:28 AM
Quote from: Rothman on May 18, 2024, 12:16:48 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2024, 12:14:12 AM^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

And if you think it's just about surface boulevards at this late point after all our discussions on this project (contracts 1 and 2 were Interstate interchange reconfigurations), you're just being a troll...The alternative is a stubborn ignoramus, but I give you more credit than that.
Still confused how 2 interchange reconfigurations and an urban boulevard comes over $2 billion, let alone $500 million at most - with the vast majority of that being the system interchanges.

Is I-481 being widened to six lanes throughout to handle additional traffic volumes? Are they building a new southwest connector freeway to fill the major gap incoming by removing the link? $2 billion is a lot... I'd be expecting these types of things with a price tag this high.

So...8 contracts and you've mentioned 3.  Half of the cost will be reconstructing I-690 through Syracuse.  3 bridges are being replaced over current I-81 as the high-speed portion north of I-690 is being realigned.

Portions of I-481 are being widened around I-690 and I-90/Thruway, but traffic projections did not support widening the entire thing.

(Not included in the project is a big repaving project to cover what the I-81 contracts don't on I-481, though...)

Anyway, it's also not like this info is hidden: https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/i-81-viaduct-project-contracts

Saying this project is just constructing a boulevard is like saying The Big Dig was just about reconstructing Atlantic Ave and Cross Streets in Boston...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

vdeane

Not to mention, of the portion of I-481 that is being widened, it includes long bridges over a railroad yard.  And the part of I-690 that's being rebuilt?  Also a viaduct.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

froggie

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2024, 12:14:12 AM^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

Moot point.  If Henry was referring to the Boulevard part of the I-81 project, that part is small potatoes compared to I-690 (as mentioned above).  If he's referring to the whole project, he (and you too apparently) have clearly forgotten the Big Dig.  Compared to that, I-81 doesn't even come close.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: froggie on May 19, 2024, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2024, 12:14:12 AM^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

Moot point.  If Henry was referring to the Boulevard part of the I-81 project, that part is small potatoes compared to I-690 (as mentioned above).  If he's referring to the whole project, he (and you too apparently) have clearly forgotten the Big Dig.  Compared to that, I-81 doesn't even come close.

Right the big dig. Most overtly used example of expensive road projects. But that actually placed a freeway tunnel replacing an elevated viaduct. Same thing with the Alaskan Way Viaduct. So really those two are that comparable. This isn't replacing it in the sense of keeping it the same the state is downgrading the facility to a surface street and rerouting the corridor to another existing road.

Now if Boston had simply torn down the viaduct and built a surface boulevard with no tunnel like New York is doing to Syracuse then it'd be more comparable.

roadman65

This project is more comparable to The Embarcadero in San Francisco. Tearing down a freeway to make a surface boulevard out of it.^^^
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Plutonic Panda

^^^ good point. If they tear out I-794 in Milwaukee which they seem dead set on doing it'll be interesting to see the costs on that. The costs to remove I-375 in Detroit are a better comparison as well.

Rothman

#1621
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 20, 2024, 01:56:54 AM^^^ good point. If they tear out I-794 in Milwaukee which they seem dead set on doing it'll be interesting to see the costs on that. The costs to remove I-375 in Detroit are a better comparison as well.
[/quote
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 20, 2024, 12:49:01 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 19, 2024, 11:41:00 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 18, 2024, 12:14:12 AM^^^ you must get paid to be a cheerleader for this project.

The other poster said the most expensive *urban road* project ever. Reading is key. If it isn't it sure it close. How many billions are being spent to construct a surface boulevard? I suppose you could count the Alaskan Way Viaduct removal.

Moot point.  If Henry was referring to the Boulevard part of the I-81 project, that part is small potatoes compared to I-690 (as mentioned above).  If he's referring to the whole project, he (and you too apparently) have clearly forgotten the Big Dig.  Compared to that, I-81 doesn't even come close.

Right the big dig. Most overtly used example of expensive road projects. But that actually placed a freeway tunnel replacing an elevated viaduct. Same thing with the Alaskan Way Viaduct. So really those two are that comparable. This isn't replacing it in the sense of keeping it the same the state is downgrading the facility to a surface street and rerouting the corridor to another existing road.

Now if Boston had simply torn down the viaduct and built a surface boulevard with no tunnel like New York is doing to Syracuse then it'd be more comparable.

Wrong.  A huge selling point of The Big Dig was how it was going to open space in downtown Boston and reconnect the community between the North End and the rest of downtown.

In both cases of Syracuse and Boston, the issue to be addressed was an obsolete viaduct.  Boston was able to pursue the tunnel option while Syracuse was not (ROW and water table issues, as explained ad absurdum now).

In terms of cost comparison, sure, one can compare it to possible demolitions of I-375 and I-794, but one must also take into account how each of the demolished highways fit into the overall system in the metro area.  Sure, those projects will be cheaper -- they didn't have to totally reconfigure how traffic passed through the metro area...
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Plutonic Panda

It is not wrong. They are not comparable. One builds a tunnel the other doesn't. There is a huge difference.

roadman65

Life is unfair. Just get over it.😡
We all have to live with the ad nauseam I-99 number, and the poorly designed Breezewood severing I-70. Plus, the I-74/ US 74 concurrency in NC.

So accept this way of life in Syracuse as well.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Plutonic Panda

Well, yeah, the tunnel in Syracuse isn't happening. I've accepted that. I don't see why we need to accept Breezewood. That can should be fixed and should not be accepted. I don't know anything about I-99.



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