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Westside Parkway & Centennial Corridor (CA 58 realignment, Bakersfield)

Started by bing101, January 07, 2014, 10:51:19 AM

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Concrete Bob

Freeways. new and old, are our commuting and transporting friends!  Really!  If you are on this website, you aren't here by accident. 

Public money well-spent. Bakersfield will be a super-hub for transport, shipping and logistics in the coming decades thanks to the Centennial Corridor.  I hope that funding and construction comes soon to extend the freeway corridor to Interstate 5. 


Plutonic Panda

It definitely needs to be needs to be extended to I-5. If Caltrans doesn't have any interests in extending the I-40 designation to I-5 why hasn't any representatives from the Bakersfield area thought about it?

FredAkbar

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 10, 2024, 09:56:26 PM
The thought did occur to me today that I'm likely the only person on the forum who currently has an up to date clinch of CA 58.  Not that I have a Travel Maps account or really keep a good account of Sign Route clinches.

This led me to wonder, do people line up to try to be the first person to drive a new section of road like this when it opens? Similar to people waiting in line to get the first copy of a new book/album/whatever. Or is the population of roadgeeks slim enough that there isn't really demand for such a thing? (One imagines Max/Tom patiently sitting there by himself waiting for the big moment.)

Max Rockatansky

#578
I tried to get to the ceremony right as it was opening.  I showed up about ten minutes early and had to loop back around.  Once the ceremony ground was open I was maybe the twentieth car in line.  A Corvette club showed up early and I was followed in by a Mustang club.  A lot of the remaining crowd consisted of infrastructure fans and people who wanted to see Bill Thomas speak.   There was probably about two hundred plus people by my rough count.

cahwyguy

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 19, 2024, 09:26:56 PM
It definitely needs to be needs to be extended to I-5. If Caltrans doesn't have any interests in extending the I-40 designation to I-5 why hasn't any representatives from the Bakersfield area thought about it?

Define "it":

Are you saying Route 58 should go to I-5? It does.

Are you saying it needs to be fully controlled access freeway from the end of the Westside Parkway to I-5? I wonder if the traffic and safety justify the need? If there aren't a lot of crossings, truck traffic is served just as well with an expressway or a well maintained road.

Are you saying it needs to be signed as I-40 to I-5? I'm not sure I see the reason why, other than to satisfy the folks that love numbering. It makes no difference in terms of navigation ease. This is true even if you are just talking about the segment between Barstow and Bakersfield. Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.

So, precisely, what needs to be extended to I-5?
Daniel - California Highway Guy ● Highway Site: http://www.cahighways.org/ ●  Blog: http://blog.cahighways.org/ ● Podcast (CA Route by Route): http://caroutebyroute.org/ ● Follow California Highways on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cahighways

Max Rockatansky

Me personally I would be happy with just getting an expressway from the end of the West Side Parkway to I-5.  It would be great if it was a CA 198 Hanford-Visalia expressway with no traffic lights. 

kkt

Quote from: cahwyguy on February 19, 2024, 10:49:29 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 19, 2024, 09:26:56 PM
It definitely needs to be needs to be extended to I-5. If Caltrans doesn't have any interests in extending the I-40 designation to I-5 why hasn't any representatives from the Bakersfield area thought about it?

Define "it":

Are you saying Route 58 should go to I-5? It does.

Are you saying it needs to be fully controlled access freeway from the end of the Westside Parkway to I-5? I wonder if the traffic and safety justify the need? If there aren't a lot of crossings, truck traffic is served just as well with an expressway or a well maintained road.

Are you saying it needs to be signed as I-40 to I-5? I'm not sure I see the reason why, other than to satisfy the folks that love numbering. It makes no difference in terms of navigation ease. This is true even if you are just talking about the segment between Barstow and Bakersfield. Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.

So, precisely, what needs to be extended to I-5?

I'm not Plutonic Panda, but I do think there's enough long-haul traffic there that a freeway would be justified.  And it is strange to a lot of people that you follow I-40 west from Amarillo but if you want to continue west from I-15 you follow a different number.  Should I-80 change numbers in Sacramento for the last 85 miles to San Francisco?  I-40 could duplex with I-15 to where it reaches CA 58.  It's only about 5 miles - at least it would not be a wrong-way duplex like I-80 and I-580 north of Oakland.

Plutonic Panda

^^^^ yes the road should be freeway/interstate quality to I-5.

sprjus4

https://www.bakersfieldcity.us/617/Projects-Map

As mentioned in the past couple of pages, their long range plan appears to call for a new alignment connector to be built to I-5. I couldn't imagine it would be anything less than a fully controlled access freeway.

Plutonic Panda

Thanks for posting that! How likely is the west beltway going to be built?

pderocco


Max Rockatansky

Given the right of way seems to be mostly already reserved and Caltrans District 6 has cities that want new corridors the chances are very good.  The city of Bakersfield might have to annex parcels of land and contribute a ton of money to the expansion like they already had with the West Side Parkway.  Let's not forget, the West Side Parkway was originally the under maintenance of the city rather than Caltrans.

ClassicHasClass


Max Rockatansky


vdeane

Quote from: cahwyguy on February 19, 2024, 10:49:29 PM
Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.
California must be really allergic to overlaps.  4-5 miles is nothing.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

triplemultiplex

"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kkt

Quote from: vdeane on February 20, 2024, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: cahwyguy on February 19, 2024, 10:49:29 PM
Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.
California must be really allergic to overlaps.  4-5 miles is nothing.

California did try to eliminate as many overlaps as possible at the 1964 renumbering.

GaryA

Quote from: luv2drive on February 19, 2024, 07:14:24 PM
I drove from San Jose to Las Vegas on Friday, The entire freeway was not opened, had to follow signs to take Mohawk to Rosedale to 99 South to 58. Today (Monday Feb 19) returning home, the waze directions showed 58 completed, turns into Stockdale Hwy after several miles. Very nice drive.

I drove through there, also on Monday (2/19).  The freeway was open (both directions), but there were still signs in place telling eastbound drivers to take the detour you describe.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2024, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 20, 2024, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: cahwyguy on February 19, 2024, 10:49:29 PM
Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.
California must be really allergic to overlaps.  4-5 miles is nothing.

California did try to eliminate as many overlaps as possible at the 1964 renumbering.

And for some reason created an unnecessarily long (albeit mostly silent) extension overlapping US 101 along Santa Barbara Channel south of Gaviota Pass. 

More in line with Interstate multiplexes, I-5 and CA 33 have a fairly substantial multiplex of north of CA 33 to Derrick Avenue.  That wasn't born as part of the 1964 Renumbering but rather a desire by the Division of Highways to shed maintenance along Coalinga-Mendota Road.

DTComposer

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 20, 2024, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2024, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 20, 2024, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: cahwyguy on February 19, 2024, 10:49:29 PM
Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.
California must be really allergic to overlaps.  4-5 miles is nothing.

California did try to eliminate as many overlaps as possible at the 1964 renumbering.
And for some reason created an unnecessarily long (albeit mostly silent) extension overlapping US 101 along Santa Barbara Channel south of Gaviota Pass. 

More in line with Interstate multiplexes, I-5 and CA 33 have a fairly substantial multiplex of north of CA 33 to Derrick Avenue.  That wasn't born as part of the 1964 Renumbering but rather a desire by the Division of Highways to shed maintenance along Coalinga-Mendota Road.

As well as the completely unnecessary - and well-marked - 12-mile duplex of CA-99 and CA-70 from I-5 heading north. It even persisted on official Caltrans maps through 1990, and amusingly enough, shows up on Apple Maps.

Although I don't see a compelling need to renumber CA-58, I don't think a I-15/I-40 duplex in Barstow would be that confusing. I see it akin to the (admittedly shorter) CA-57/CA-60 overlap in Diamond Bar.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: DTComposer on February 21, 2024, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 20, 2024, 01:20:24 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 20, 2024, 01:06:00 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 20, 2024, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: cahwyguy on February 19, 2024, 10:49:29 PM
Further, the way and location where Route 58 connects to I-15 is quite a few miles S of where I-40 ends, so there's this big discontinuity. About the only equivalent concurrency is I-580 N of the Oakland Bay Bridge, and that's confusing for folks.
California must be really allergic to overlaps.  4-5 miles is nothing.

California did try to eliminate as many overlaps as possible at the 1964 renumbering.
And for some reason created an unnecessarily long (albeit mostly silent) extension overlapping US 101 along Santa Barbara Channel south of Gaviota Pass. 

More in line with Interstate multiplexes, I-5 and CA 33 have a fairly substantial multiplex of north of CA 33 to Derrick Avenue.  That wasn't born as part of the 1964 Renumbering but rather a desire by the Division of Highways to shed maintenance along Coalinga-Mendota Road.

As well as the completely unnecessary - and well-marked - 12-mile duplex of CA-99 and CA-70 from I-5 heading north. It even persisted on official Caltrans maps through 1990, and amusingly enough, shows up on Apple Maps.

Although I don't see a compelling need to renumber CA-58, I don't think a I-15/I-40 duplex in Barstow would be that confusing. I see it akin to the (admittedly shorter) CA-57/CA-60 overlap in Diamond Bar.

Hell, for quite a long time CA 70 multiplexed CA 99 all the way to Capitol Mall in downtown Sacramento.  One of the signs is still lingering around. 

https://flic.kr/p/RiyhiS

TheStranger

Quote from: DTComposer on February 21, 2024, 08:29:17 PM

As well as the completely unnecessary - and well-marked - 12-mile duplex of CA-99 and CA-70 from I-5 heading north. It even persisted on official Caltrans maps through 1990, and amusingly enough, shows up on Apple Maps.


The 70 concurrency with 99 (which primarily existed in the 1960s, as noted by the artifact sign in downtown Sacramento) is probably a weird artifact of two things:

- US 40A starting out as a concurrency (albeit with US 99W along what is now Route 113)

- The 1959-1964 portion of Route 24 that ran between Marysville and the Land Park district in Sacramento, which 70 directly replaced (along with 40A, which itself used to be part of 24 until 1953 or so)

Interestingly, part of the 1960s 70/99 alignment (1959-1964 Route 24) in Natomas was demolished and removed in the 1990s, the connector from Jibboom Street to Garden Highway north of Sacramento's Discovery Park.
Chris Sampang

fungus

If the west beltway has not yet been environmentally cleared yet it is not going to be built without VMT mitigation thanks to the new state law (SB 743). As far as I can tell (https://www.bakersfieldcity.us/736/Project-Documents) it has not. The VMT mitigation is going to be pretty expensive, on the order of massively expanding bus service or charging tolls to fund bike lanes in the central part of the city. There are environmental interest groups which are raising red flags any time lanes are being added, anywhere statewide, so even in Kern County it will be tough, although projects which are environmentally cleared to add lanes are going to keep moving, and there are a good deal of them out there.

Max Rockatansky

I seem to recall there was a wavier process for SB 743?  Wasn't cl94 the one who mentioned something about that?

Lukeisroads

So are we now gonna decide if 99 is gonna be turned into a interstate?



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