Should WISDOT get rid of routes parallel to Interstates?

Started by peterj920, January 14, 2025, 04:10:39 PM

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mgk920

Heck, WisDOT should also reroute WI 26 to follow recently concrete rebuilt Dodge County 'A' bypassing Juneau, WI.  That is now far and away toe BEST county highway that I have driven in a long while and is a favored big-rig truck route!

Mike


SEWIGuy

Quote from: dvferyance on January 20, 2025, 04:48:36 PMI know there is a millage cap of 12,000 miles but I beleive they are 600 miles under it so I don't know why there can't be some additional millage.

I think they are only about 250 miles under. Anyway I think the simple answer is cost.

dvferyance

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2025, 11:12:02 AMIf STH 26 was going to be rerouted to bypass Waupun, it would have happened when the US 151 bypass was completed in 1962. Since it still goes through Waupun to this day, I don't see it ever being relocated.
You could be right about that. I wonder if it's just because the city doesn't want to take the road. I am sure most traffic taking 26 probably uses 151 to bypass town anyways. This would be the one rerouting in the state I would be 100% in favor of.

peterj920

Quote from: dvferyance on January 21, 2025, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2025, 11:12:02 AMIf STH 26 was going to be rerouted to bypass Waupun, it would have happened when the US 151 bypass was completed in 1962. Since it still goes through Waupun to this day, I don't see it ever being relocated.
You could be right about that. I wonder if it's just because the city doesn't want to take the road. I am sure most traffic taking 26 probably uses 151 to bypass town anyways. This would be the one rerouting in the state I would be 100% in favor of.

The city already has the road but would lose the connecting highway aid that goes along with it.

mgk920

Quote from: peterj920 on January 23, 2025, 01:35:54 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on January 21, 2025, 01:37:26 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 21, 2025, 11:12:02 AMIf STH 26 was going to be rerouted to bypass Waupun, it would have happened when the US 151 bypass was completed in 1962. Since it still goes through Waupun to this day, I don't see it ever being relocated.
You could be right about that. I wonder if it's just because the city doesn't want to take the road. I am sure most traffic taking 26 probably uses 151 to bypass town anyways. This would be the one rerouting in the state I would be 100% in favor of.

The city already has the road but would lose the connecting highway aid that goes along with it.

That US 151/WI 26 interchange on Waupun's NE side is at the top of my list of 'overegineered' interchanges (as I mentioned in a prior thread here in AA Rads).  It SHOULD have been a straight across street bridge crossing with no ramp connections.

WI 26 between there and the Dodge Co. 'A' intersection SW of Juneau, WI should become a lettered county highway or highways.

Mike

The Ghostbuster

I could agree that the free-flow ramp on STH 26 northbound was overkill. Would the interchange just to the south (Exit 147) be considered overbuilt as well?

mgk920

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2025, 01:11:45 PMI could agree that the free-flow ramp on STH 26 northbound was overkill. Would the interchange just to the south (Exit 147) be considered overbuilt as well?

I would have WI 49 and its US 151 interchange be the main entrance into town from the east and north.


Mike

GeekJedi

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2025, 01:11:45 PMI could agree that the free-flow ramp on STH 26 northbound was overkill. Would the interchange just to the south (Exit 147) be considered overbuilt as well?

Keep in mind that the upgraded 151 wasn't around when the 26 interchange was built - at that time it was still the WisDOT preferred route to Oshkosh.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

The Ghostbuster

That's true. Although the US 151 Waupun Bypass opened in 1962, it remained a two-lane highway until the 1990s. The STH 26 North interchange was constructed when the Waupun Bypass-to-Fond du Lac segment of US 151 was expanded to four lanes in the 2000s. Further southwest, the Columbus-to-Waupun Freeway Conversion Study was restarted this year: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/151/default.aspx.

SEWIGuy

Quote from: GeekJedi on January 29, 2025, 08:09:14 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2025, 01:11:45 PMI could agree that the free-flow ramp on STH 26 northbound was overkill. Would the interchange just to the south (Exit 147) be considered overbuilt as well?

Keep in mind that the upgraded 151 wasn't around when the 26 interchange was built - at that time it was still the WisDOT preferred route to Oshkosh.


But wasn't the upgraded 151 in the plans, and just a couple years away from reality, when the current WI-26 interchange was built? I thought they were both part of a long-term project to upgrade the entire corridor.


peterj920

As far as alternates are concerned, County ES is signed as an I-43 alternate in Waukesha County. County R in Brown/Manitowoc Counties, CR, DL, and LL are all high quality county roads that didn't retain a state highway designation when I-43 was opened. There must have been a policy shift between the building of I-90/94 and I-43 that turned old alignments back to the counties.

There's no reason to think that Wis 175 along with the sections of US 12/Wis 16 parallel to an interstate wouldn't be able to handle interstate alternate designations.

One other note on the alternates. They're gone after heading north of Oshkosh on I-41 and north of Sheboygan on I-43.

mgk920

Quote from: peterj920 on January 30, 2025, 02:26:47 AMAs far as alternates are concerned, County ES is signed as an I-43 alternate in Waukesha County. County R in Brown/Manitowoc Counties, CR, DL, and LL are all high quality county roads that didn't retain a state highway designation when I-43 was opened. There must have been a policy shift between the building of I-90/94 and I-43 that turned old alignments back to the counties.

There's no reason to think that Wis 175 along with the sections of US 12/Wis 16 parallel to an interstate wouldn't be able to handle interstate alternate designations.

One other note on the alternates. They're gone after heading north of Oshkosh on I-41 and north of Sheboygan on I-43.

Oshkosh city streets also cannot handle the detour traffic load when the I-41 Lake Butte des Morts causeway goes down, that has been proven several times over the past couple of decades.  That is why I consider that crossing to be one of the, if not the, most major weak points in the entire transport system anywhere in the State of Wisconsin.

Mike

mgk920

This is sort of like InDOT continuing to maintain a divided four lanes of US 52 southeast of Lafayette, IN, even though I-65 very closely parallels it most of the way from there to Indianapolis.

Mike

SSOWorld

Quote from: peterj920 on January 30, 2025, 02:26:47 AMAs far as alternates are concerned, County ES is signed as an I-43 alternate in Waukesha County. County R in Brown/Manitowoc Counties, CR, DL, and LL are all high quality county roads that didn't retain a state highway designation when I-43 was opened. There must have been a policy shift between the building of I-90/94 and I-43 that turned old alignments back to the counties.

There's no reason to think that Wis 175 along with the sections of US 12/Wis 16 parallel to an interstate wouldn't be able to handle interstate alternate designations.

One other note on the alternates. They're gone after heading north of Oshkosh on I-41 and north of Sheboygan on I-43.
and north of WIS-16 on I-39 (with intermittent ones in Stevens Point with orange banners indicating temporary alts)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

The Ghostbuster

There are Alternate Interstate 39/94 signs on US 51 in Madison. There is also an Alternate US 18/151 on US 14 and CTH M.

GeekJedi

Quote from: peterj920 on January 30, 2025, 02:26:47 AMAs far as alternates are concerned, County ES is signed as an I-43 alternate in Waukesha County. County R in Brown/Manitowoc Counties, CR, DL, and LL are all high quality county roads that didn't retain a state highway designation when I-43 was opened. There must have been a policy shift between the building of I-90/94 and I-43 that turned old alignments back to the counties.

There's no reason to think that Wis 175 along with the sections of US 12/Wis 16 parallel to an interstate wouldn't be able to handle interstate alternate designations.

One other note on the alternates. They're gone after heading north of Oshkosh on I-41 and north of Sheboygan on I-43.

In the case of CTH-ES (former WI-15), it was already a county highway when the "Alternate" program started. Based on the fact that ES is a heavily used suburban road, WisDOT is probably comfortable with the arrangement.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"

thspfc

Quote from: mgk920 on January 30, 2025, 02:31:22 PMThis is sort of like InDOT continuing to maintain a divided four lanes of US 52 southeast of Lafayette, IN, even though I-65 very closely parallels it most of the way from there to Indianapolis.

Mike
Restriping it such that it becomes a two lane road along one of the carriageways would make the abandoned carriageway a massive target for graffiti artists. Which would not be well received in the rural areas the route passes through.

peterj920

Quote from: thspfc on February 04, 2025, 09:34:56 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 30, 2025, 02:31:22 PMThis is sort of like InDOT continuing to maintain a divided four lanes of US 52 southeast of Lafayette, IN, even though I-65 very closely parallels it most of the way from there to Indianapolis.

Mike
Restriping it such that it becomes a two lane road along one of the carriageways would make the abandoned carriageway a massive target for graffiti artists. Which would not be well received in the rural areas the route passes through.

Large sections of Old Route 66 have an abandoned carriageway and it's not attracting graffiti artists. Either nature is taking over or parts are repurposed into a bike path.

In the Litchfield Area, guardrails were placed at intersections so motorists can't access the abandoned roadway. They figure that was cheaper than removing the road altogether.

It's discretion of who maintains the roadway. Barron County took over Old US 53 between Cameron and Rice Lake. It continues to be maintained as a 4 lane roadway despite being close to the US 53 freeway.


Molandfreak

Quote from: peterj920 on February 04, 2025, 09:39:37 PM
Quote from: thspfc on February 04, 2025, 09:34:56 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 30, 2025, 02:31:22 PMThis is sort of like InDOT continuing to maintain a divided four lanes of US 52 southeast of Lafayette, IN, even though I-65 very closely parallels it most of the way from there to Indianapolis.

Mike
Restriping it such that it becomes a two lane road along one of the carriageways would make the abandoned carriageway a massive target for graffiti artists. Which would not be well received in the rural areas the route passes through.

Large sections of Old Route 66 have an abandoned carriageway and it's not attracting graffiti artists. Either nature is taking over or parts are repurposed into a bike path.

In the Litchfield Area, guardrails were placed at intersections so motorists can't access the abandoned roadway. They figure that was cheaper than removing the road altogether.

It's discretion of who maintains the roadway. Barron County took over Old US 53 between Cameron and Rice Lake. It continues to be maintained as a 4 lane roadway despite being close to the US 53 freeway.


I like when old carriageways are converted to bike paths. Sure it happens sometimes, but graffiti on a bike path is generally few and far between.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

mgk920

I fully agree with the thought of turning the abandoned carriageway into a recreational pathway.

:nod:

Mike

dvferyance

Quote from: mgk920 on February 05, 2025, 01:32:14 AMI fully agree with the thought of turning the abandoned carriageway into a recreational pathway.

:nod:

Mike
Carriageway? I didn't know we were British.

mgk920

Quote from: dvferyance on February 06, 2025, 07:28:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 05, 2025, 01:32:14 AMI fully agree with the thought of turning the abandoned carriageway into a recreational pathway.

:nod:

Mike
Carriageway? I didn't know we were British.

Got a better word for it?  Just wait until we start referring to large trucks as 'Lorries'.

Mike

peterj920

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2025, 01:11:45 PMI could agree that the free-flow ramp on STH 26 northbound was overkill. Would the interchange just to the south (Exit 147) be considered overbuilt as well?

The NB Wis 26 free flow ramp wasn't overkill. It perfectly handles the large amount of traffic that exits to go north on Wis 26.

However, the 4 lane road to nowhere was overkill and Wis 26 traffic shouldn't be merging and exiting off a 4 lane road with almost no traffic. That section was a white elephant project within the interchange.

Molandfreak

Quote from: peterj920 on February 07, 2025, 06:59:07 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 23, 2025, 01:11:45 PMI could agree that the free-flow ramp on STH 26 northbound was overkill. Would the interchange just to the south (Exit 147) be considered overbuilt as well?

The NB Wis 26 free flow ramp wasn't overkill. It perfectly handles the large amount of traffic that exits to go north on Wis 26.

However, the 4 lane road to nowhere was overkill and Wis 26 traffic shouldn't be merging and exiting off a 4 lane road with almost no traffic. That section was a white elephant project within the interchange.
Since the ultimate goal was to encourage drivers to stay on 151, the free flow ramp was definitely overkill.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PMAASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

GeekJedi

Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2025, 11:36:52 AMSince the ultimate goal was to encourage drivers to stay on 151, the free flow ramp was definitely overkill.

When the ramp went in, that wasn't the ultimate goal or, at the very least, the ultimate goal was far enough into the future that they needed to get it done. That original intersection was pretty dangerous and had a history of bad accidents.
"Wisconsin - The Concurrency State!"



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