Indiana looking to add tolls to all Interstate Highways

[DevalDragon]

An interesting article came out in the Northwest Indiana times this week that Indiana wants to toll all their Interstates so they can pay to rebuild them. It may the the only way we see the desperately needed third lane on I-65.

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/state-regional/government-politics/indiana-tolls-interstates-road-funding/article_a4ddcc5e-e7ce-11ef-b1f2-0b1c81ef9c62.html

I just hope they do a better job than they did with the Indiana Toll Road.

[Great Lakes Roads]

Seriously, do we need a separate thread for this topic, where it's already been discussed in the Indiana Notes thread?

[paulthemapguy]

Imagine that! Indiana realizing it needs revenue to make public infrastructure a thing! I guess I should have expected that Indiana would explore any outlet besides taxing people, before reaching the conclusion they should tax people. That's because anti-establishment people move to Indiana so they can pay lower taxes.

Do you hate the establishment but also complain when the establishment doesn't do enough things for you?
Do you like having things and hate having to pay for them?
Do you hate paying taxes then complain when the government can't fund the roads you drive on?
We have the solution for you!
Introducing: TOLLS!

With tolls, Indiana can continue to be a welfare state and suck in revenue from people outside the state! It's just like the extortion of drivers with out-of-state plates by Indiana police, but more direct and more transparent! Why have good roads AND pay for them too? With tolls, people in OTHER states can pay for your roads!

[JayhawkCO]

Seriously, do we need a separate thread for this topic, where it's already been discussed in the Indiana Notes thread?

Well, I kind of like it as a separate thread just because I'm not all that interested in Indiana roads as a whole, but this topic is interesting to me since it's part of a national system. If it only stayed in that thread, I'd be unaware of it.

[NWI_Irish96]

Imagine that! Indiana realizing it needs revenue to make public infrastructure a thing! I guess I should have expected that Indiana would explore any outlet besides taxing people, before reaching the conclusion they should tax people. That's because anti-establishment people move to Indiana so they can pay lower taxes.

Do you hate the establishment but also complain when the establishment doesn't do enough things for you?
Do you like having things and hate having to pay for them?
Do you hate paying taxes then complain when the government can't fund the roads you drive on?
We have the solution for you!
Introducing: TOLLS!

With tolls, Indiana can continue to be a welfare state and suck in revenue from people outside the state! It's just like the extortion of drivers with out-of-state plates by Indiana police, but more direct and more transparent! Why have good roads AND pay for them too? With tolls, people in OTHER states can pay for your roads!

More or less. These tolls would replace revenue lost from a proposed property tax cut.

[edwaleni]

Imagine that! Indiana realizing it needs revenue to make public infrastructure a thing! I guess I should have expected that Indiana would explore any outlet besides taxing people, before reaching the conclusion they should tax people. That's because anti-establishment people move to Indiana so they can pay lower taxes.

Do you hate the establishment but also complain when the establishment doesn't do enough things for you?
Do you like having things and hate having to pay for them?
Do you hate paying taxes then complain when the government can't fund the roads you drive on?
We have the solution for you!
Introducing: TOLLS!

With tolls, Indiana can continue to be a welfare state and suck in revenue from people outside the state! It's just like the extortion of drivers with out-of-state plates by Indiana police, but more direct and more transparent! Why have good roads AND pay for them too? With tolls, people in OTHER states can pay for your roads!

More or less. These tolls would replace revenue lost from a proposed property tax cut.

Property tax revenue goes into their general fund.

Indiana "free" highways are funded by Federal & State sales taxes on fuels plus a portion from their DMV for tag/registration renewals.

If Indiana has been redirecting general fund dollars to prop up highways, then that is their legislators fault.

If they need to rebuild their highways, they should raise their fuel sales tax. A half of 1 percent would be  plenty to get started, or do what Illinois did and firewall transporation dollars from general revenue.

* * * * * * * *

Indiana funds highways through a combination of motor fuel taxes, state and local sales taxes, and other taxes and fees. The Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) receives the majority of its funding from motor fuel taxes.
Funding sources
Motor fuel taxes: The primary source of funding for INDOT, including state and federal taxes
State and local sales taxes: Including Indiana's 7% sales tax on gasoline sales
Other taxes and fees: Including delivery taxes, property taxes, motor carrier surcharge tax, international registration program fees, and Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicle fees

[dvferyance]

Anytime there is a proposal to toll an interstate that isn't tolled it never goes anywhere. I still remember whem Missouri wanted to toll I-70.

[thenetwork]

Tolling all remaining East/West Interstates in Indiana may not be a great idea to get those who "are just passing through".  Anyone traveling from St. Louis to Ohio and east simply follow I-64 to I-71, while those from the Chicagoland area shunpike using I-94 like they already do.

[vdeane]

Tolling all remaining East/West Interstates in Indiana may not be a great idea to get those who "are just passing through".  Anyone traveling from St. Louis to Ohio and east simply follow I-64 to I-71, while those from the Chicagoland area shunpike using I-94 like they already do.

Instead of spending millions upgrading the Borman, they could make it a toll road with variable pricing based on congestion (similar to HOT lanes, except all the lanes and with no HOV exemption).

[webny99]

Tolling all remaining East/West Interstates in Indiana may not be a great idea to get those who "are just passing through".  Anyone traveling from St. Louis to Ohio and east simply follow I-64 to I-71, while those from the Chicagoland area shunpike using I-94 like they already do.

Except that I-64 and I-94 could end up being tolled under this propsal too.

[Flint1979]

Well if I-70 gets a toll I guess I'll just use US-40.

[thenetwork]

Tolling all remaining East/West Interstates in Indiana may not be a great idea to get those who "are just passing through".  Anyone traveling from St. Louis to Ohio and east simply follow I-64 to I-71, while those from the Chicagoland area shunpike using I-94 like they already do.

Except that I-64 and I-94 could end up being tolled under this propsal too.

Sorry, I was more referring to just I-70, 80 & 90 across the state -- the main truck routes.

I-94 is the shortest major highway in the state, so the overall tolls would be less, I assume.  And I-64 is not as busy as the routes mentioned above.

[ITB]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, people. This tolling of interstates is proposed legislation that has a long way to go before becoming law.

The sponsor of the bill is State Rep. Jim Pressel of Rolling Prairie. The purpose of the legislation, according to Pressel, is to help develop a future plan to fund Indiana's roads and bridges.

"We're not doing anything except opening up that toolbox," he added.

The above quote and related information are from an article published by nwi.com, which was republished online by the Indiana Economic Digest.

The toolbox Pressel refers to is, of course, the future options the governor and INDOT may potentially need to develop new revenue streams. Seems like the proposed legislation is a reasonable step to take.

[Road Hog]

Arkansas kicked around the same idea 20 years ago and I was told federal law prohibits tolling existing free interstates. They were too chicken to raise the gas tax.

[Rick Powell]

Arkansas kicked around the same idea 20 years ago and I was told federal law prohibits tolling existing free interstates. They were too chicken to raise the gas tax.

There are several paths available for adding tolling to interstate highways, but it rarely happens. There are lots of toll roads that received an interstate designation after the fact, such as most of Chicago's tollway system and the Pennsylvania Turnpike. There are currently four federal programs for tolling interstates: Section 129 allows new lanes to be built and tolled on the interstate system; Section 166 allows a tolling option on interstate HOV lanes for vehicles where the minimum occupancy is not met. Two pilot programs, Interstate System Reconstruction and Rehabilitation Pilot Program (ISRRPP) and Value Pricing Pilot Program (VPPP)allow applying tolls to existing non tolled lanes, with the VPPP program requiring the use of variable pricing based on congestion conditions.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ipd/fact_sheets/tolling_programs.aspx

[SP Cook]

Arkansas kicked around the same idea 20 years ago and I was told federal law prohibits tolling existing free interstates.

This.  Legislatures generally meet this time of year, and this story comes bubbling up from one state or another, every year.  Remember many legislators are part time, many have no legal background, and many represent a small number of people.  This is just some yahoo who thinks he has a good idea, unaware that it is simply illegal.

[hotdogPi]

I thought it wasn't completely illegal but just made it ineligible for federal funding.

[Life in Paradise]

I think the federal government may be getting a bit more flexible as time goes on about tolling on interstates.  Bridges are being constructed (I-69) and are going to be funded by tolls.  I-65 in Louisville had been a free bridge at one time, and is now tolled.  Soon to be I-265 is tolled across the Ohio River.  With the gaps in I-49 (Arkansas) and I-69 (again Arkansas plus Mississippi and Louisiana), to have those built either the federal government has to divert money to those projects from the US treasury or allow the state government some flexibility if they desire to use another method for financing those projects.

[vdeane]

There are several paths available for adding tolling to interstate highways, but it rarely happens.

And it's worth noting that the reason it rarely happens is because these programs tend to say "the tolling revenue must be used to maintain/improve the road that is tolled", and a lot of the time states are turning to tolling to shore up budgets elsewhere.  PennDOT's application to toll I-80 got rejected multiple times because of this.

[Rick Powell]

And it's worth noting that the reason it rarely happens is because these programs tend to say "the tolling revenue must be used to maintain/improve the road that is tolled", and a lot of the time states are turning to tolling to shore up budgets elsewhere.  PennDOT's application to toll I-80 got rejected multiple times because of this.

In the FHWA link I posted above, the two programs that allow tolling existing interstate lanes have a certain number of slots available because they are pilot programs. Unless your state has a slot, and the state identifies the route it wants to toll and pledges to meet the federal stipulations that come with the program, it's not gonna happen.

[abqtraveler]

Anytime there is a proposal to toll an interstate that isn't tolled it never goes anywhere. I still remember whem Missouri wanted to toll I-70.

Because for existing interstates, they would first have to get Congressional approval to toll them. Current law doesn't allow the tolling of existing interstates, except that new lanes that are added later on can be funded with tolls, but only those lanes and not the whole highway. That's why some states are able to get away with HO/T lanes.

[vdeane]

Anytime there is a proposal to toll an interstate that isn't tolled it never goes anywhere. I still remember whem Missouri wanted to toll I-70.

Because for existing interstates, they would first have to get Congressional approval to toll them. Current law doesn't allow the tolling of existing interstates, except that new lanes that are added later on can be funded with tolls, but only those lanes and not the whole highway. That's why some states are able to get away with HO/T lanes.

As mentioned upthread, there are some programs for doing so but they have yet to be used outside of bridges because they have stringent tolling requirements that states tend not to meet.

[ARMOURERERIC]

Didn't Texas bypass all these federal restrictions by putting a dedicated 2% tax on auto parts?

[edwaleni]

Didn't Texas bypass all these federal restrictions by putting a dedicated 2% tax on auto parts?

https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/publications/96-254/accessories-equipment.php

[tosa]

I'm okay with tolling the interstates as long as the money is used to maintain and upgrade the roads.