General NBA thread

[Alps]

The Bucks postponed their playoff game today due to the Kenosha shooting..  The league followed suit by canceling all games today.

Word is the LA teams are boycotting the rest of the season.

LeBoycott the games

I think a lot of fans will be done with the NBA if the season is cancelled for good. It'll be just like the 1994 MLB season, when it ended in a players' strike and fans of that league said they'd never watch another game again...well, at least most of them anyway.

I don't think the NBA is done.  But I doubt what you are saying is accurate for a couple of reasons.  First, this is an odd season with the bubble and all.  Second, they would be quitting for a social justice reason and not a union contract related one.  Third, their audience is younger, more urban and therefore more "in tune" with this message than general fanbase of the other leagues are.

Fortunately for this discussion, they appear to be restarting shortly.

[Alps]

I normally don't chime in on the Sports threads but I came across this article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer regarding the Sixers are targeting Penn's Landing for a potential new basketball arena & thought it would be of interest.

Granted, if this proposal were ever to happen at all; such would be years away.  The Sixers' current lease at the Wells Fargo Center expires in 2031.

The comments in the article are pretty feisty.  Opposition to the use of taxpayer funds to build this facility is coming from both liberals & conservatives.

Taxpayer funding is a mixed bag. How much actual economic growth will the new arena generate? How much tax revenue will be collected above what is currently? That's the limit of where public dollars should be contributed.

[jp the roadgeek]

I normally don't chime in on the Sports threads but I came across this article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer regarding the Sixers are targeting Penn's Landing for a potential new basketball arena & thought it would be of interest.

Granted, if this proposal were ever to happen at all; such would be years away.  The Sixers' current lease at the Wells Fargo Center expires in 2031.

The comments in the article are pretty feisty.  Opposition to the use of taxpayer funds to build this facility is coming from both liberals & conservatives.

Taxpayer funding is a mixed bag. How much actual economic growth will the new arena generate? How much tax revenue will be collected above what is currently? That's the limit of where public dollars should be contributed.

I just think it is totally ridiculous for the hockey team and basketball team in the same city to play in separate arenas (obviously, cities with multiple teams notwithstanding, but even LA has 3 teams playing at Staples Center; plus I consider the fact the Sharks use San Jose as the city name a valid reason to keep separate from the Warriors).  Even the Pistons abandoned auburn Hills and joined the Red Wings at the Pizza! Pizza! Center.  The Sports Complex has been there for 49 years now and is perfectly accessible from 95, the Schuykill, and the Orange Line, and has plenty of parking.  Parking near Center City is at a premium.   I lived in Philly when Wells Fargo opened and when The Vet was still there, so now I really feel old. 

[SEWIGuy]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

[Alps]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Barclays was never designed for hockey. So it belongs on this list.

[SEWIGuy]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Barclays was never designed for hockey. So it belongs on this list.

But the Islanders played there for four plus seasons.  They are moving back to Nassau while their new facility is under construction.

[I-55]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Los Angeles (odd because the Kings, Clippers, and Lakers all play at Staples Center but the Anaheim Ducks are the lone tenant of the Honda Center). (30.4 miles)

(Formerly) Detroit (33.6 miles)

[SEWIGuy]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Barclays was never designed for hockey. So it belongs on this list.

But the Islanders played there for four plus seasons.  They are moving back to Nassau while their new facility is under construction.

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

[I-55]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Barclays was never designed for hockey. So it belongs on this list.

But the Islanders played there for four plus seasons.  They are moving back to Nassau while their new facility is under construction.

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

[SEWIGuy]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Barclays was never designed for hockey. So it belongs on this list.

But the Islanders played there for four plus seasons.  They are moving back to Nassau while their new facility is under construction.

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

LOL. Yes.  The Clippers in Nassau would be weird.

[Verlanka]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

[Henry]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

And now they're looking to build a new arena in Inglewood, where the Lakers used to play. Not surprisingly, there's a lot of opposition to this plan.

[Takumi]

Here are the cases where NBA and NHL teams play in the same metropolitan area, but different arenas, and the driving distance between

Phoenix (18.5 miles)
Miami (34.9 miles)
Twin Cities (10.4 miles)
New York (odd because the Islanders moved to the Barclays Center but then moved back to Nassau)  (25.8 miles)
Bay Area (46.8 miles)

Barclays was never designed for hockey. So it belongs on this list.

But the Islanders played there for four plus seasons.  They are moving back to Nassau while their new facility is under construction.

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

They could always move back to San D...yeah, I can't even finish that sentence without laughing.

[formulanone]

I normally don't chime in on the Sports threads but I came across this article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer regarding the Sixers are targeting Penn's Landing for a potential new basketball arena & thought it would be of interest.

Granted, if this proposal were ever to happen at all; such would be years away.  The Sixers' current lease at the Wells Fargo Center expires in 2031.

The comments in the article are pretty feisty.  Opposition to the use of taxpayer funds to build this facility is coming from both liberals & conservatives.

Taxpayer funding is a mixed bag. How much actual economic growth will the new arena generate? How much tax revenue will be collected above what is currently? That's the limit of where public dollars should be contributed.

I think there's an increase in tax revenue generation if the city/metro area didn't have a team beforehand, but likely no net increase if a new one is built. After all, it's just moving money from one neighborhood/town/district to another. But even then, it takes 2-3 decades or more to make that all up, and that's only if they're a consistently successful franchise; just in enough time for the owners to beg for another arena...

[SEWIGuy]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Clippers made the right choice.  They still are top 10 in terms of attendance at the Staples Center, and I'm not sure Orange County is where and NBA team wants to be located.

[SEWIGuy]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Clippers made the right choice.  They still are top 10 in terms of attendance at the Staples Center, and I'm not sure Orange County is where and NBA team wants to be located.

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

[thspfc]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Clippers made the right choice.  They still are top 10 in terms of attendance at the Staples Center, and I'm not sure Orange County is where and NBA team wants to be located.

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

Though even if it was political statement, it would be correct because the NBA has alienated a lot of its right wing fanbase recently, or at least the casual fans who are right leaning. Putting all politics aside, it's clear that the NBA is not thinking in terms of money as they've been airing playoff games in the middle of the day, on weekdays, since their restart. 

[SEWIGuy]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Clippers made the right choice.  They still are top 10 in terms of attendance at the Staples Center, and I'm not sure Orange County is where and NBA team wants to be located.

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

Though even if it was political statement, it would be correct because the NBA has alienated a lot of its right wing fanbase recently, or at least the casual fans who are right leaning. Putting all politics aside, it's clear that the NBA is not thinking in terms of money as they've been airing playoff games in the middle of the day, on weekdays, since their restart. 

Just the first round.  Now that they are into just four series, they are airing one in the early evening and one later.  I think that is all part of the negotiation with the players, who want as short a time in the bubble as possible.

And the NBA knows what it's doing with its fanbase. 

[thspfc]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Clippers made the right choice.  They still are top 10 in terms of attendance at the Staples Center, and I'm not sure Orange County is where and NBA team wants to be located.

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

Though even if it was political statement, it would be correct because the NBA has alienated a lot of its right wing fanbase recently, or at least the casual fans who are right leaning. Putting all politics aside, it's clear that the NBA is not thinking in terms of money as they've been airing playoff games in the middle of the day, on weekdays, since their restart. 

Just the first round.  Now that they are into just four series, they are airing one in the early evening and one later.  I think that is all part of the negotiation with the players, who want as short a time in the bubble as possible.

And the NBA knows what it's doing with its fanbase.

Ah, I thought they were still having midday games for some reason.

[SEWIGuy]

I have always thought the Clippers should have moved out there to develop their own identity.

I'm going to assume you meant to quote the previous post and have the Clippers in Anaheim?

Well, the Clippers did play some games in Anaheim in the 90s...

The more I think about it, the more I believe the Clippers made the right choice.  They still are top 10 in terms of attendance at the Staples Center, and I'm not sure Orange County is where and NBA team wants to be located.

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

Though even if it was political statement, it would be correct because the NBA has alienated a lot of its right wing fanbase recently, or at least the casual fans who are right leaning. Putting all politics aside, it's clear that the NBA is not thinking in terms of money as they've been airing playoff games in the middle of the day, on weekdays, since their restart. 

Just the first round.  Now that they are into just four series, they are airing one in the early evening and one later.  I think that is all part of the negotiation with the players, who want as short a time in the bubble as possible.

And the NBA knows what it's doing with its fanbase.

Ah, I thought they were still having midday games for some reason.

Actually you are right about this.  The Bucks play Game 3 at 2:30 Central tomorrow on ABC.  Wonder if they feel the Friday of Labor Day is going to be a decent for ratings.

[triplemultiplex]

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

I've seen polling data that confirms your observation about the politics of NBA fans, but those same polls show that NFL football has across the board appeal regardless of politics.  That was just a couple years ago.  They also showed the sport with the most left-leaning fans was tennis.  Which surprised me since tennis strikes me as a country club sport for rich people with an inheritance to protect.  The sport with the most conservative fan base was not surprising though: stock car racing.  Some stereotypes are true.

[Takumi]

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

I've seen polling data that confirms your observation about the politics of NBA fans, but those same polls show that NFL football has across the board appeal regardless of politics.  That was just a couple years ago.  They also showed the sport with the most left-leaning fans was tennis.  Which surprised me since tennis strikes me as a country club sport for rich people with an inheritance to protect.  The sport with the most conservative fan base was not surprising though: stock car racing.  Some stereotypes are true.

Indeed. You-know-who was a major presence at the Daytona 500 this year, and, well, look how the reaction to the Confederate flag ban was at first.

[PHLBOS]

I normally don't chime in on the Sports threads but I came across this article in today's Philadelphia Inquirer regarding the Sixers are targeting Penn's Landing for a potential new basketball arena & thought it would be of interest.

Granted, if this proposal were ever to happen at all; such would be years away.  The Sixers' current lease at the Wells Fargo Center expires in 2031.

The comments in the article are pretty feisty.  Opposition to the use of taxpayer funds to build this facility is coming from both liberals & conservatives.

Taxpayer funding is a mixed bag. How much actual economic growth will the new arena generate? How much tax revenue will be collected above what is currently? That's the limit of where public dollars should be contributed.

I just think it is totally ridiculous for the hockey team and basketball team in the same city to play in separate arenas (obviously, cities with multiple teams notwithstanding, but even LA has 3 teams playing at Staples Center; plus I consider the fact the Sharks use San Jose as the city name a valid reason to keep separate from the Warriors).  Even the Pistons abandoned auburn Hills and joined the Red Wings at the Pizza! Pizza! Center.  The Sports Complex has been there for 49 years now and is perfectly accessible from 95, the Schuykill, and the Orange Line, and has plenty of parking.  Parking near Center City is at a premium.   I lived in Philly when Wells Fargo opened and when The Vet was still there, so now I really feel old. 

Not sure when that area received its Sports Complex moniker, but the old Spectrum first opened in 1967 and JFK (originally Municipal) Stadium was around much longer.

The issue with the proposed Penns Landing location is that while I-95, 676 & SEPTA's Market-Frankford (Blue) Line are within proximity; such are not necessarily conveniently accessible.  While the site is accessible to/from I-95 from points north and to/from I-676 from Center City & points west; access to/from I-95 from points south is more cumbersome (ramps are either further south and/or only accessible from west of Penns Landing). 

The nearest SEPTA station is the 2nd Street Station along the Market-Frankford Line which is located on the opposite side of I-95 with respect to Penns Landing.  Such would be more of an uphill walk (crossing over I-95 & Columbus Blvd.) than a walk from the Sports Complex to the NRG/Pattison Ave. Station at the Broad St. Line.

As far as the 76ers seeking their own facility is concerned; the team's owner, then-Harold Katz, went down this road before circa 1993 before the then-proposed Spectrum II was built (opened as the then-CoreStates Center).  Katz had a deal with then-NJ Gov. Jim Florio to build an arena across the river.  However, when Christie Whitman defeated Florio in the '93 Governor's race & learned that taxpayer money was going to used for the endeavor; she halted such right then and there.  Needless to say, Harold Katz wasn't too pleased with such but wound up (reluctantly) signing the lease for the current facility in South Philadelphia.

Whether the Sixers current owner, Josh Harris, will try to do similar be it at Penns Landing or across the river is not yet known.

Of course the Penns Landing proposal is supposedly including the development/building of other venues along Columbus Blvd. as a means of getting the city officials and the like on-board & supporting this project.  However, if past experience at other venues, including the Rivers (formerly SugarHouse) Casino, is any indication; those other adjacent residual development projects, more often than not, are either hopelessly delayed or altogether dropped.  Case & point: when the then-SugarHouse Casino was proposed, the overall plan included a multi-story hotel and several shops along Delaware Ave. as part of the overall development package.  To date, only the casino and multi-level parking garage were built.  The sites where the shops were to be built in front of the casino are still open-air parking lots.

Bottom line: I would not hold my breath regarding the other development outside the arena and related parking facility upgrades becoming reality.

[thspfc]

By the way, this isn't meant as a political statement.  From my anecdotal experience, NBA crowds are younger and more diverse than NFL or MLB crowds.  Arenas located more toward the urban center makes sense.  That is likely why almost all NBA arenas are "downtown."  Detroit, Brooklyn and Golden State have all moved to arenas located closer to the urban center of their respective metropolitan areas recently.

I've seen polling data that confirms your observation about the politics of NBA fans, but those same polls show that NFL football has across the board appeal regardless of politics.  That was just a couple years ago.  They also showed the sport with the most left-leaning fans was tennis.  Which surprised me since tennis strikes me as a country club sport for rich people with an inheritance to protect.  The sport with the most conservative fan base was not surprising though: stock car racing.  Some stereotypes are true.

Indeed. You-know-who was a major presence at the Daytona 500 this year, and, well, look how the reaction to the Confederate flag ban was at first.

Yeah, we defintiely found out who NASCAR's fans really are after the flag ban.

[ET21]

I honestly forgot this league was still going until I saw the Rockets/Lakers game last night