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Protected Turns with no Designated Turn Lane

Started by webny99, March 09, 2022, 10:22:21 AM

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ran4sh

Quote from: UCFKnights on March 11, 2022, 07:31:41 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 09, 2022, 10:43:58 AM
There are a couple in downtown Green Bay plus 3 other locations.

FYI, FYAs aren't allowed to be used in this situation.
Here's an example of a FYA without a designated lane in Florida:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.6381607,-82.3459277,3a,90y,320.32h,84.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1szn_jE47iDFMbMCuRalMnKw!2e0!5s20210301T000000!7i13312!8i6656

Note, this light doesn't contain a green arrow, only a FYA in the bottom position, it always flashes yellow while the green ball is displayed no matter what. I think its purpose is to remind people to yield to the cars going straight, almost everyone turns at this intersection with the rare car or 2 going straight, so when someone goes straight, those turning left often doesn't slow down and can go right in the path of the car with the actual ROW. I think its been effective at that.

It's ok if it's a simple one-phase light where the green circle, flashing yellow, and oncoming traffic green circle always come on and off together. I guess the existence of the raised median prevents the problem of traffic crossing a center line to turn left when they're behind a car that wants to go straight.
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jay8g

There are basically three ways that this is implemented:

  • Standard split phasing, as discussed above: each direction of traffic gets its own phase for all movements. Very common, despite being rather terrible in most situations (generally results in long cycle lengths and lots of red time for each movement).
  • What I like to call "semi-split phasing" (not sure if there's an official term): Generally only used for one direction, which gets a protected left turn for a brief period (generally at the start of the phase) regardless of whether there's any demand for the left turn. Much less common than standard split phasing, and generally less problematic (though the linked example is rather silly -- they could easily have fit in left turn lanes by removing a few parking spaces that don't even seem to be heavily used).
  • Semi-split phasing with protected-only turns: Same as above, but you're only supposed to turn during the protected part of the phase. I've never understood why someone thought this would be a good idea, since it means that you can have people blocking one of the through lanes while the light is green because they have to wait for the arrow. Thankfully, these seem to be quite rare.

JMAN_WiS&S

Quote from: Big John on March 09, 2022, 10:43:58 AM
There are a couple in downtown Green Bay plus 3 other locations.

FYI, FYAs aren't allowed to be used in this situation.

This is what the FYA doghouse/5 section is supposed to remedy. Eau Claire has two intersections with them, and I know they are dotted around the twin cities. They usually operate with lead/lag protected green, on an actuated basis. They are not supposed to be used with a red arrow however. Eau Claire's feature a standard 4 section FYA with a red arrow on the far left corner posts, which as far as I am aware, is non-compliant. I have some videos of one of the intersections on my channel showing them operating and I know there are some from MN and AL on youtube aswell.
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Hobart

IDOT does these from time to time, but not often.

The one that comes to mind is at the end of the ramp from I-57 North to US-45/52, in Kankakee, Illinois.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.0755651,-87.8685051,3a,64.5y,163.16h,93.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_uUO8dl4s3I6u0YczvLsoA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This one is a locally-maintained signal on Southwest Highway, at 52nd Avenue, in Oak Lawn, Illinois.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7235822,-87.7504147,3a,48.9y,267.5h,88.66t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGo4CBIYYctKp-oRFG6cXtQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I haven't experienced either of these protected phases first-hand, but it's worth noting that neither of these configurations have an opposing, oncoming left turn lane, so there's no signal cycle where only left turn movements can occur; the arrow is always given with the green ball in that direction to prevent any hangups.
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Ned Weasel

Quote from: kphoger on March 09, 2022, 10:33:03 AM
approach 1
approach 2

I miss the old traffic signal at that intersection, which had multiple signal faces using the same support.  I think it also had protected/permissive left turns, but that was so long ago, I can't 100% remember.
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