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Author Topic: South Carolina  (Read 170794 times)

roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #525 on: December 21, 2021, 11:50:23 AM »

Also the four way STOP on SC 63 and US 21 west of Walterboro is got a large STOP guide sign nestled between four alternative flashing red! 

Is that even MUTCD compliant?

Walterboro
https://maps.app.goo.gl/h6jD32L8hoxXxP8R8
« Last Edit: December 21, 2021, 12:00:01 PM by roadman65 »
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #526 on: December 21, 2021, 12:04:15 PM »

Which part?

Those rectangle stop signs go back decades in SC.  The double flashing lights might not, though.  I want to say growing up ones with lights were singles only.

Here is a 4 way intersection with double red flashing and double yellow flashing (been there at least 15 years) - https://goo.gl/maps/o6ioi1KeUYCoSUz56

I saw this unusual signal in Pennsylvania recently, a flashing red beacon with a green arrow - https://goo.gl/maps/Wj9v7hRMQTkpMY5i9
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roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #527 on: December 21, 2021, 12:17:50 PM »

https://goo.gl/maps/Et9pupcrpWhuaSAc6

This one here out in the middle of nowhere has both.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #528 on: December 21, 2021, 01:03:48 PM »

Also what year was US 278 realigned between Hardeeville and Sun City?  I remember in 04 it was changed as I exited at Exit 8 and saw the change then.

I do know also that the exchange with SC 336 in Ridgeland opened before the realignment as it was signed US 278 after opening. So the tight SC 336 diamond had to completed in the mid 90s or about.  That leaves anytime between 95 and 04 for the US 278  realigning to happen.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #529 on: December 21, 2021, 04:20:53 PM »

Also what year was US 278 realigned between Hardeeville and Sun City?  I remember in 04 it was changed as I exited at Exit 8 and saw the change then.

I do know also that the exchange with SC 336 in Ridgeland opened before the realignment as it was signed US 278 after opening. So the tight SC 336 diamond had to completed in the mid 90s or about.  That leaves anytime between 95 and 04 for the US 278  realigning to happen.

The US 278 move was approved by AASHTO in 1995.

The SC 336 interchange is shown in the 1994 aerial and not the 1984 one.  I'd have to check maps to see when the interchange shows up on them...
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #530 on: January 02, 2022, 06:33:06 PM »

Something I've wondered about South Carolina: why does the state appear to have a disproportionate amount of counties whose county seats match the county's name? Most states have at least a couple such counties, but in SC, among the 46 counties in the state, 31 of them (that is to say, two-thirds) happen to have a county seat of the same name as the county. Is there any particular historical reason as to why? I'm sure some user who lives there might be able to fill me in on that.
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wriddle082

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #531 on: January 02, 2022, 07:21:48 PM »

Something I've wondered about South Carolina: why does the state appear to have a disproportionate amount of counties whose county seats match the county's name? Most states have at least a couple such counties, but in SC, among the 46 counties in the state, 31 of them (that is to say, two-thirds) happen to have a county seat of the same name as the county. Is there any particular historical reason as to why? I'm sure some user who lives there might be able to fill me in on that.

The way I understand it, SCís original counties were originally nothing more than judicial districts, and took the name of the town with the courthouse.  Wikipedia has a pretty good history here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_South_Carolina

Whatís particularly interesting is that SC counties did not have Home Rule until 1975, and itís still just a bit more limited than in most other states.
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roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #532 on: January 05, 2022, 05:18:32 PM »

Why are SC 61 and SC 63 signed N-S when both routes are E-W running?  Even if SCDOT follows the US route guide that odd numbers must be N-S and even numbers E-W, still with the awkward routings it still would be better that they sign it as their overall routing and not because of their assigned number.

Or better yet assign even numbers to both.

Even US 52 they made awkward now signing it E-W as it was much better before when it was N-S and not to mention match NC to the north that does sign it N-S along with VA and WV.  In St. Stephens now you travel west on US 52 and have US 521 south to your right and US 521 north head to your left which is counter logical to the compass.
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #533 on: January 05, 2022, 06:41:15 PM »

Why are SC 61 and SC 63 signed N-S when both routes are E-W running?  Even if SCDOT follows the US route guide that odd numbers must be N-S and even numbers E-W, still with the awkward routings it still would be better that they sign it as their overall routing and not because of their assigned number.

Or better yet assign even numbers to both.

Even US 52 they made awkward now signing it E-W as it was much better before when it was N-S and not to mention match NC to the north that does sign it N-S along with VA and WV.  In St. Stephens now you travel west on US 52 and have US 521 south to your right and US 521 north head to your left which is counter logical to the compass.

This absurdity with the state routes is pretty recent.  In truth a lot of SC state routes were signed without direction at all, but the ones that were were signed correctly.  Now there are numerous routes signed contraary to reality.  Their numbering system, which goes back to 1920 was not set up for odds one direction and evens another.

US 52 was also signed N-S in places when I was growing up, but that was eliminated much sooner than the state route stuff.

From Reply 377 in this thread:
Since the South Carolina system is under review in Travel Mapping, it has become clear that SCDOT is posting more directional banners on their state routes than they used to.

For reasons I don't understand, they seem to be making all even numbers E-W and all odd numbers N-S whether that makes any sense or not, as their numbering system never evolved with that in mind.

An egregious example is SC 20 is posted as E-W despite its Greenville endpoint being north 47.08 mi and west only 1.36 miles from its Abbeville endpoint.

SC 8, SC 14 and SC 18 (ok I did spot one SC 18 North sign) are all now posted E-W despite being clearly N-S routes.  SC 211 is posted N-S while being extremely E-W and I recall it being posted E-W in the 1980s.

I have now found evidence they re-bannered routes for sure - SC 63 was posted E-W and is now N-S (see https://www.usends.com/walterboro.html)

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roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #534 on: January 05, 2022, 07:13:59 PM »

Thereís still is one EAST shield north of where US 17 ALT merges.


« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 07:26:19 PM by roadman65 »
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Sheryl Crowe

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #535 on: January 05, 2022, 07:15:39 PM »

Which part?

Those rectangle stop signs go back decades in SC.  The double flashing lights might not, though.  I want to say growing up ones with lights were singles only.

I think double flashing lights are OK as long as they're flashing at the same time. I know alternating horizontal flashing reds aren't allowed because they could be confused with a railroad crossing signal.

roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #536 on: January 05, 2022, 07:24:34 PM »

Which part?

Those rectangle stop signs go back decades in SC.  The double flashing lights might not, though.  I want to say growing up ones with lights were singles only.

I think double flashing lights are OK as long as they're flashing at the same time. I know alternating horizontal flashing reds aren't allowed because they could be confused with a railroad crossing signal.

I believe SC also uses rectangular YIELD signs as well.

As far as flashing reds go, yes horizontal flashes yes were told in letter addressed to me from Osceola County, FL public works in regards to an intersection with alternative flashers.

They were going to eliminated it in Yeehaw Junction, FL due to the MUTCD  claimin it was solely for the purpose of railroad signals.  SCDOT uses them vertically and horizontally to give a size zag effect so that when top Left lit, bottom right will be lit etc.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2022, 07:27:12 PM by roadman65 »
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #537 on: January 07, 2022, 10:09:13 AM »

I see also SC 45 heading NE of US 15 and 176 in Wells is SB SC 45 despite it runs NE to Euwatila then east with SC 6 and arcs around in Berkeley County.

Boy SC is very bad at assigning cardinal directions not only in the Low Country, but in other places as well. SC 9 is another one running close to the NC Border which which runs more E-W than N-S and I believe it was once signed E-W in the early nineties.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #538 on: January 07, 2022, 01:59:58 PM »

I see also SC 45 heading NE of US 15 and 176 in Wells is SB SC 45 despite it runs NE to Euwatila then east with SC 6 and arcs around in Berkeley County.

Boy SC is very bad at assigning cardinal directions not only in the Low Country, but in other places as well. SC 9 is another one running close to the NC Border which which runs more E-W than N-S and I believe it was once signed E-W in the early nineties.

Iím convinced they donít even care anymore.  They recently put up some new reassurance markers on US 21/176/321 near my house.  Previously they had all three highways posted underneath either a single NORTH or SOUTH directionals, which is correct for 21 and 321 but not 176.  There are still several other instances of this throughout that triplex, but what really bothers me is a brand new set near my house that has 176 WEST posted with 21 and 321 SOUTH and 176 EAST posted with 21 and 321 NORTH.  Itís supposed to be EAST with SOUTH and WEST with NORTH.  I reported this blatant error to SCDOT over a month ago, and I have received absolutely no acknowledgement that they received my complaint, much less have they fixed the issue.

Before that, my biggest issue was how SC 14 WEST breaks away from I-385 NORTH via a right hand turn, and SC 14 EAST breaking away from I-385 SOUTH via another right hand turn.  This could feasibly happen if SC 14 were to, say, cross back over 385 at any given point, but of course that doesnít happen.  SC 14 just needs to be signed NORTH-SOUTH so it can stop driving me crazy every time I drive to Greenville!
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roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #539 on: January 08, 2022, 10:41:27 AM »

Another strange thing is the two different types of interchanges along I-95 and I-26 for US 15.

Why does I-26 exchange with US 15 using a cloverleaf, but I-95 intersects with a standard diamond? Are the traffic counts that different between the north side of US 176 than the south side of US 176? 

The need for a cloverleaf at I-26 and US 15 IMO is unwarranted. Being it’s a rural two lane road, it doesn’t deserve a cloverleaf. Cloverleaf interchanges are usually between two freeways or two divided highways or one of each. Even in Orangeburg further west between I-26 and US 301 seems a little odd, but at least US 301 is a four lane highway though with motorist services located at it.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #540 on: January 08, 2022, 11:10:20 AM »

Another strange thing is the two different types of interchanges along I-95 and I-26 for US 15.

Why does I-26 exchange with US 15 using a cloverleaf, but I-95 intersects with a standard diamond? Are the traffic counts that different between the north side of US 176 than the south side of US 176? 

The need for a cloverleaf at I-26 and US 15 IMO is unwarranted. Being itís a rural two lane road, it doesnít deserve a cloverleaf. Cloverleaf interchanges are usually between two freeways or two divided highways or one of each. Even in Orangeburg further west between I-26 and US 301 seems a little odd, but at least US 301 is a four lane highway though with motorist services located at it.

I-26 was designed and built a lot earlier than I-95, so the US 15 cloverleaf, as well as the ones at US 301 and US 601 (the latter now a parclo, lost the loop off-ramps a few years ago) came long before the one at I-95.  I guess they just havenít felt the need to update the one at US 15 just yet because of low volumes, but Iím thinking the one at US 301 will be updated soon because of the popular new QT truck stop that opened a little over a year ago.

I just wish they would do something about the cloverleafs at US 1, US 29, and Business 85.  Theyíre all quite dangerous.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #541 on: January 08, 2022, 11:58:22 AM »

I just wish they would do something about the cloverleafs at US 1, US 29, and Business 85.  Theyíre all quite dangerous.

The one at Business will be a heavy lift as close as it is to the I-95 and Fairforest Road interchanges, especially if it becomes necessary to provide two-lane ramps between I-26 south of 85 and 85 to the east, which seems likely to me.
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roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #542 on: January 08, 2022, 12:06:34 PM »

Seems like I-26 is full of cloverleafs in that specific area.

Of course I remember when the segment of I-95 between Exit 97 and I-16 in GA was incomplete and you had the choice of either only going further south on either US 15 or US 301. Being at that particular time, I-95 was mostly incomplete in GA too, US 301 to Callahan, Florida was a great option considering the Talmadge Bridge was a major choke point at the time and the constant transferring back and forth between I-95 and US 17 was very weary to most drivers. Many drivers opted then for staying on 301 to Florida due to many cities like Orangeburg, Bamberg, Sylvania, Statesboro, Jesup, and Folkston provided motorists services to travelers going down the coast.

It makes sense now, but I am sure that next major project along I-26 will remedy that situation.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #543 on: January 10, 2022, 09:04:44 AM »

I was noticing in 2005 aerial shots the original configuration of the I-26 and US 17 exchange with the former Pearman and Grace Bridges.  I see that left exit for King Street that I-26 now uses appears to have been US 17s original exit for US 78 then.

Now coming off the Ravenel Bridge the traffic with EB I-26 donít merge until the first signalized at grade intersection with a ramp on both sides of the raised curb for King Street.  US 17 exits right onto Carolina Street while I-26 exits to the left to a cul de sac
and then follows the start of a dead end street to access King Street.

I assume that the roles were swapped before the Ravenel Bridge opened? The left exit was previously US 17 SB exit from the Grace Bridge and the Carolina Street exit was used then by I-26 traffic?

Also where was the crossover point from the Pearmanís SB lane to the Grace Bridge?  Old aerials donít zoom in close enough to see that. I assume the single SB lane of the Pearman Bridge did have full access to I-26 when in operation even though there was a weave issue.
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roadman65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #544 on: January 11, 2022, 10:47:30 PM »

https://scdot.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=a877baaafbb74eb3ba9c638469673339&folderid=4e17c266ce0948f09afdf3b21f429b15

I was there last month and seen no construction.  I am guessing itís on hold for the moment.
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #545 on: January 12, 2022, 12:37:34 PM »

I was noticing in 2005 aerial shots the original configuration of the I-26 and US 17 exchange with the former Pearman and Grace Bridges.  I see that left exit for King Street that I-26 now uses appears to have been US 17s original exit for US 78 then.

Now coming off the Ravenel Bridge the traffic with EB I-26 donít merge until the first signalized at grade intersection with a ramp on both sides of the raised curb for King Street.  US 17 exits right onto Carolina Street while I-26 exits to the left to a cul de sac
and then follows the start of a dead end street to access King Street.

I assume that the roles were swapped before the Ravenel Bridge opened? The left exit was previously US 17 SB exit from the Grace Bridge and the Carolina Street exit was used then by I-26 traffic?

This is correct

Quote
Also where was the crossover point from the Pearmanís SB lane to the Grace Bridge?  Old aerials donít zoom in close enough to see that. I assume the single SB lane of the Pearman Bridge did have full access to I-26 when in operation even though there was a weave issue.

The SB Pearman lane dropped to adjacent to the Grace bridge landing.  Traffic stayed on this lane and it went to a curved roadway where right went to a stoplight at US 52 and its former ramp to I-26 west.  Left went back to Meeting St at Sheppard St.  This curved roadway is also how Meeting St NB traffic reached the Pearman bridge (the reversible lane drop from the bridge was two-way traffic (see this 1025060080520245248[/tweet]]photo

I am trying to remember how truck traffic who wanted to stay with US 17 had to go.  I want to say they had to turn left on Meeting St then right on Coming St.  The 2005 aerial clearly shows it was not possible to weave to the right to merge onto US 17 SB off the Grace Bridge.
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D-Dey65

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #546 on: January 24, 2022, 07:54:10 AM »

https://goo.gl/maps/Et9pupcrpWhuaSAc6

This one here out in the middle of nowhere has both.
Here's one at SC 527 with US 301:

Just in case nobody knows what roadman65 is talking about.

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #547 on: January 24, 2022, 08:00:39 AM »

I was just checking out Exits 29 and 30 on I-526 in Charleston, and I had to zoom in on the concrete barrier in the spur to northbound US 17 and Hungry Neck Boulevard;
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8205676,-79.8468662,227m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

If you're looking at this from too far away, you might incorrectly assume the wider concrete barrier was a westbound stub road continuing Hungry Neck west of I-526.

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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #548 on: January 24, 2022, 08:51:11 AM »

Somewhere in one of the threads (it might have been the I-95 in North Carolina one), the discussion sidled into some comments about I-95 in South Carolina, with comments about the pavement. Someone asserted that it was fine -- and I strongly disagree. After a trip south last week and a return yesterday via I-26 and I-95 down to Florida, I will agree with the first person who claimed it was bad. While not continuously bad, there are enough bad sections of concrete at random intervals to make for a rough ride or push travel into the left lane.

There are also occasional assertions (and I'm one of them) that I-95 and I-26 need to be three lanes. Others point out that heavy traffic is an anomaly that only happens around Thanksgiving and otherwise the highway is adequate. Our recent trip (down on a Sunday night, return on a Sunday afternoon) moved along without heavy traffic, but there are too many people who believe it is their right to travel at 80+ MPH. They aren't happy with people who are passing others who are at or under the speed limit and tailgate to express displeasure. A third lane would help alleviate this to some extent by keeping slower traffic to the right, putting faster traffic in the middle, and having the leftmost lane open for the leadfoots and the need to pass slightly slower people in the middle lane.

Bruce in Blacksburg
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Re: South Carolina
« Reply #549 on: January 24, 2022, 08:45:10 PM »

I 10000% agree Bruce. 95 needs to be three laned at the very least from the SC-GA border to the 95/26 interchange.

 


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