SE Hurricane Routes lacking

[Aerobird]

And yet Key West was wiped off the map.

Um...no, it most certainly was not "wiped off the map".

I understand people like to engage in this kind of hysterical hyperbole, but it really needs to stop.

[noelbotevera]

My suggestions would to upgrade certain north-south US highways to freeways within the state, which also include bypassing towns. Highways such as:

US 17 (between US 41 and US 192, from the Orange-Seminole county line to the Clay-Duval county line, and then north of Jacksonville)
US 19 (north of FL 50)
US 27 (does not include sections in Miami)
US 98 (north south portion)
US 441 (does not include the Miami portion)
US 301
US 1 (between Miami and Key West)

and so on. At the time of evacuation, they could encourage people use both Interstates and US Highways to prevent jams on I-75 and I-95. Also, they can issue routes based on where you live. So if you live in Tampa, would might be instructed to use US 19, US 41, or I-75, but if somebody is from Miami, they could use US 27, US 441 or a combination of those.

Note: coming from somebody who's never lived in Florida; just my 2 cents and basing it off states like Wisconsin and Iowa which upgrade their US Routes to freeways or at the very least expressways

[hotdogPi]

My suggestions would to upgrade certain north-south US highways to freeways within the state, which also include bypassing towns. Highways such as:

US 17 (between US 41 and US 192, from the Orange-Seminole county line to the Clay-Duval county line, and then north of Jacksonville)
US 19 (north of FL 50)
US 27 (does not include sections in Miami)
US 98 (north south portion)
US 441 (does not include the Miami portion)
US 301
US 1 (between Miami and Key West)

and so on. At the time of evacuation, they could encourage people use both Interstates and US Highways to prevent jams on I-75 and I-95. Also, they can issue routes based on where you live. So if you live in Tampa, would might be instructed to use US 19, US 41, or I-75, but if somebody is from Miami, they could use US 27, US 441 or a combination of those.

Note: coming from somebody who's never lived in Florida; just my 2 cents and basing it off states like Wisconsin and Iowa which upgrade their US Routes to freeways or at the very least expressways

I've been on US 27 between the Turnpike and US 441 (and a small amount of the 27/441 overlap). They would have to remove a LOT of businesses if that was a freeway. I assume other US routes would be the same.

[UCFKnights]

And yet Key West was wiped off the map.

Blizzards are nothing.  Just stay home for the day if it's bad and let the plows do their job.  No trouble at all.  You can even go out a make snowmen!  Or get snow tires and learn how to drive in the winter (the key is to keep all velocity changes gradual).  I don't understand why people panic and cause runs on groceries.  Events like what happened in Buffalo a couple years ago are rare, but I grew up in Rochester and we could handle lots of snow easily.  School almost never closed.  We're not like the southeast where entire cities shut down if someone so much as suggests that they saw a snowflake.

Earthquakes and deserts are definitely a problem though.  I keep wondering when that past-due magnitude 9 quake (and associated tsunami) is supposed to hit the pacific northwest.

I remember when "Hurricane" Sandy hit New York, it sounded so much worse then anything thats hit Florida while I've been here.

The Keys, the barrier islands, trailer parks, and low lying areas are a real problem during hurricanes due to the storm surge, thats why they're the evacuation zones. But thats a very small percentage of Florida, both in population and size. I'd be curious to see the stats of the homes "devastated" that were built post Andrew hurricane codes. I think the number will surprise you. Remember, any "pile of sticks" left behind by the hurricane in south florida likely did not comply with the current wind codes... they need concrete block or other materials to meet it.

[berberry]

There are essentially two multi-lane routes leaving town, I-10 East and I-10 West. Now you might argue that there's also I-55 North, but you must travel at least 15 miles west on I-10 just to get to I-55.

The fact that I-55 is fairly close to New Orleans does in fact make it an effective second route.

You might point out the causeway to Covington, but if you go that route then you'll soon have to get right back to I-10 or 12.

False. From the Causeway, you can proceed to LA 25 and go north into Mississippi.

All other routes are unsafe because they're not elevated.

What's wrong with US 61? It's four lanes all the way from New Orleans to Mississippi. Ditto US 90 west to I-49.

And I don't think I-55 can be counted as a good route when you have to go fifteen miles outside the city to access it. I-10 needs another lane or two on that segment between the city and I-55 to make it a good option. And many of these highways you're talking about are surface roads, not elevated. That's the problem with Airline Highway, even though it is multi-lane. Depending on its size and speed, an approaching hurricane can start dumping rain on a city days before landfall, so the flooding risk can be high well before the storm fully arrives. I would think that's even more true when most of the area is below sea level.

The Louisiana route you mentioned, from Covington into Mississippi, looks as though it's still just two lanes on Google maps. Is that incorrect? If so I stand corrected, but if not then I don't think a surface two-lane road is a viable option when a city of over a million population is ordered to suddenly evacuate.

I was here in Vicksburg, working at a hotel, when Katrina struck. The hotel was filled with nothing but evacuees for about two weeks after the storm. You are right about Hwy 61, but it was so many of the guests that told me you can't use that road until you are well out of New Orleans because it is so low to the ground and at risk of flooding. However, once you get well away from the city it is definitely a good option, even a great option. During the Hurricane Katrina evacuation, people who used 61 started arriving in Vicksburg about six hours before anyone using I-55 arrived, and during that time they took every. single. available. room. By the time the I-55 travelers started to arrive, and I called our central reservations system to try to help them find rooms, I was informed that the closest hotel with rooms available was in Missouri.

[froggie]

low-lying roads are only an issue after the rain begins....not during an evacuation.  I think you're confusing things.

[jbnv]

And I don't think I-55 can be counted as a good route when you have to go fifteen miles outside the city to access it. I-10 needs another lane or two on that segment between the city and I-55 to make it a good option.

There are additional lanes: the eastbound ones on I-10. The segment between I-55 and the city has been redesigned to facilitate contraflow. There are even signs up that indicate which segment to take if one is going to Baton Rouge or Hammond.

The Louisiana route you mentioned, from Covington into Mississippi, looks as though it's still just two lanes on Google maps. Is that incorrect? If so I stand corrected, but if not then I don't think a surface two-lane road is a viable option when a city of over a million population is ordered to suddenly evacuate.

Did I say it was the only evacuation route? No, it's one of several routes. You discount it only because it's a two-lane road.

You are right about Hwy 61, but it was so many of the guests that told me you can't use that road until you are well out of New Orleans because it is so low to the ground and at risk of flooding.

How flooded was it when they evacuated?

[jwolfer]

My suggestions would to upgrade certain north-south US highways to freeways within the state, which also include bypassing towns. Highways such as:

US 17 (between US 41 and US 192, from the Orange-Seminole county line to the Clay-Duval county line, and then north of Jacksonville)
US 19 (north of FL 50)
US 27 (does not include sections in Miami)
US 98 (north south portion)
US 441 (does not include the Miami portion)
US 301
US 1 (between Miami and Key West)

and so on. At the time of evacuation, they could encourage people use both Interstates and US Highways to prevent jams on I-75 and I-95. Also, they can issue routes based on where you live. So if you live in Tampa, would might be instructed to use US 19, US 41, or I-75, but if somebody is from Miami, they could use US 27, US 441 or a combination of those.

Note: coming from somebody who's never lived in Florida; just my 2 cents and basing it off states like Wisconsin and Iowa which upgrade their US Routes to freeways or at the very least expressways

During the height of evacuation. The turnpike and 75 had problems but US27 and US1, US 441 and other roads (US and SR) had virtually no traffic.

Instead of building hundreds of miles of freeways, during evacuations some sort of traffic light coordination or being on flash mode would be better

US19/98 is all 4 lanes mostly 65mph speed limit from north of SR50 to i10 with low traffic counts.. Its very desolate no need for a full freeway

US17/92 is Seminole County is urban 4 and 5 lane road.. Near Jax it is suburban boulevard.. Freeway upgrade would ve super expensive.. Between Palatka and Deland US17 is mostly 2 lanes .. I think it would be good to have it 4 lanes as another corridor but not needed today in the futurr yes.. I would love a Palatka freeway bypass but that would involve a new bridge of the St Johns River.. Not likely to ever be done. 17 is a decent alternate to i4/95 between Orlando and Jax now except for around Orange Park, Palatka and Deland

301 starke bypass is under construction.  The current link between 301 and 75  is sr326 just north of Ocala.. That needs to be bypassed. There are 3 or 4 truck stops at the 326 exit off 75 along with traffic lights. I wouls like a freeway link from 75 directly to 301 near Citra, lets call it i575, but the way things are it will probably be a toll road..  Most of 301 is wide open (small towns like Citra, Hawthorne, and the infamous Waldo and Lawtey have reduced speed limit). Nearer Jax there will be some suburban growth i hope access is limited with any development that comes.

In short.. There are already 4 lane highways that could be used for evacuation.

Many evacuees didnt NEEED to evacuate.. they didnt want to deal with no power in the aftermath.. Which i understand

LGMS428

[brownpelican]

Primarily the latter. People need to stop thinking the Interestate is the Only Road. There were plenty of routes, but everyone lemming-trained onto I-75.

I totally agree. Florida has a pretty good network of state and US highways people could have used.

In regards to Louisiana, Airline Highway IS a good alternative evacuation route. I don't recall ANY problems during evacuations. The only below sea level sections are in parts of Jefferson and New Orleans.

[brownpelican]

low-lying roads are only an issue after the rain begins....not during an evacuation.  I think you're confusing things.

Agreed.

[triplemultiplex]

The solution is to construct most, if not all buildings to withstand severe hurricane winds and flooding so everyone can just shelter in place.  Then there's no need for millions of people to mob the highways.
Expensive? Maybe, but compared to the cost of underbuilt structures getting damaged, I think they come out on top.  Additionally, the trauma of losing all one's shit goes away.  Oh and fewer people die.  That's good too.
We construct buildings to withstand earthquakes in seismically active areas.
We construct buildings to withstand cold temperatures and heavy snowfall in northern areas.

What's sad is I'm sure all the same garbage houses will be rebuilt in the same places that just got annihilated.  Then we get to do this all again in a few years.

[Aerobird]

The solution is to construct most, if not all buildings to withstand severe hurricane winds and flooding so everyone can just shelter in place.  Then there's no need for millions of people to mob the highways.
Expensive? Maybe, but compared to the cost of underbuilt structures getting damaged, I think they come out on top.  Additionally, the trauma of losing all one's shit goes away.  Oh and fewer people die.  That's good too.
We construct buildings to withstand earthquakes in seismically active areas.
We construct buildings to withstand cold temperatures and heavy snowfall in northern areas.

What's sad is I'm sure all the same garbage houses will be rebuilt in the same places that just got annihilated.  Then we get to do this all again in a few years.

Er...

You have read the rest of the thread where it's been pointed out on multiple occasions that this is what the Florida building code requires, right?

[edwaleni]

Turnpike.

My bad. Technically identical. "turnpike" is just another term for a tollway, just with more historical bearing.

I assume you mean Marianna, Florida, not Marietta, as the latter is a neighborhood of Jacksonville where I-295 and I-10 meet. This would be a much inferior routing to 231 mentioned below...

Yes, Marianna, not Marietta next to Jacksonville.

"We need more money."
"Sorry, you can't have more money."
And then nothing gets done.

Um, I call baloney. Highway spending in FDOT District 2 exceeded $1 Billion dollars in 2016-17. While much is a political thank you note from the governor for getting him elected, lack of money for highways is not an issue in Florida.

[Aerobird]

And yet, the roads that need work (US-319 south of Tallahassee, for example) wait 25 years after they get an "F" sufficiency rating.

[edwaleni]

And yet, the roads that need work (US-319 south of Tallahassee, for example) wait 25 years after they get an "F" sufficiency rating.

I agree...we have roads that need fixing, but its not due to lack of funds.

I could pull up the latest bridge rating report statewide and show lots of examples of bridges that are sub-standard in condition.

But our leaders prefer to pour cash into roads that support development and commerce first. It's a habit that formed after WW2 to promote Florida development and hasn't changed much.

Sometimes I shake my head at how instantly FDOT has dough to add a feature to an existing highway that was never in anyones TPO plan or never heard of until the first public hearing is announced. Then everyone is a like "whoa, where did that come from?"

[RG407]

Florida probably isn't going to be doing contra-flow ever.   It takes a lot of manpower from Florida Highway Patrol to do it.  And it prevents vehicles from getting to the coastal areas.  Gas stations, supermarkets and hardware stores were constantly bringing in products to replenish their stocks.  Plus, people do need to be able to get around.  For instance, when my grandmother was still alive and living in Tampa, the plan would have been for my parents in Orlando to drive over to get her and bring her to their house.  That would have been near impossible if I-4 was in a contra-flow situation.

As others have pointed out, while I-75 and I-95 were busy, there were lesser roads that were flowing better.  US 1 and US 17 on the east coast.   US 41, 441 and 301 in the center of the state, and US 19, 27 and 98 along the western side were all viable alternatives.  Sure, there are traffic lights and such, but at least they were moving.   

Irma was different from most hurricanes in that it was a huge storm and took a path up the middle of the state.  And we rarely have 6-7 days notice that a storm is coming.  Usually it's 3-4 days.  Sometimes it's even less.  In 2004, it was a Wednesday morning when it started looking like Hurricane Charley was going to be a serious problem for Florida.  It hit late afternoon the following Friday.

[jwolfer]

And in addition the US highways there are roads like SR19 and CR315 through and near the Ocala National Forest.. those roads are usually empty.. people get scared cuz they loose cell phone service.. no GPS, no Pandora, no porn

My uncle said he could get from Jacksonville are to Tallahassee on dirt roads

Z981