I was driving north on I-95 to I-476 outside of Philly after dark for the first time since the I-476 interchange was reconfigured. I noticed on the ramp from I-95 NB to I-476 NB and on I-476 where the road was repaved, the normal pavement markings were a bluish white and appeared to be more like dots than the transverse strips that are normal pavement reflectors. It would appear to me PennDOT used LED pavement lights (I assume they are solar).
Has anyone else seen LEDs replace regular reflectors on major highways?
They've done a few experiments here in Florida. I like them. We don't have snow plows though so they last longer.
I think we have a thread on this somewhere. Washington installed them in a few places. They are indeed solar and look similar to Stimsonite reflectors.
Quote from: realjd on October 16, 2016, 06:31:03 PM
They've done a few experiments here in Florida. I like them. We don't have snow plows though so they last longer.
All plows are not created equal. Warmer places with occasional snow can use "snowplowable" markers because the plows ride on rubber "shoes". This is because salt/temperatures melts the last little bit and plows don't need to contact the surface. New York and New England can't use the "snowplowable" markers because running the metal plow directly on the pavement destroys them. NYSDOT and NHDOT trialed them in the 80s and 90s and they didn't work well.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
All plows are not created equal. Warmer places with occasional snow can use "snowplowable" markers because the plows ride on rubber "shoes". This is because salt/temperatures melts the last little bit and plows don't need to contact the surface. New York and New England can't use the "snowplowable" markers because running the metal plow directly on the pavement destroys them. NYSDOT and NHDOT trialed them in the 80s and 90s and they didn't work well.
In the areas that receive snow (such as Flagstaff), ADOT uses recessed reflectors. Flagstaff gets a LOT of snow.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 16, 2016, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
All plows are not created equal. Warmer places with occasional snow can use "snowplowable" markers because the plows ride on rubber "shoes". This is because salt/temperatures melts the last little bit and plows don't need to contact the surface. New York and New England can't use the "snowplowable" markers because running the metal plow directly on the pavement destroys them. NYSDOT and NHDOT trialed them in the 80s and 90s and they didn't work well.
In the areas that receive snow (such as Flagstaff), ADOT uses recessed reflectors. Flagstaff gets a LOT of snow.
Recessed reflectors were adopted by MassDOT to replace the failed "snowplowable" ones. I'm curious as to how those will hold up. I fear the recesses filling with snow/ice and becoming dangerous when people drive over them.
It's entirely possible that they could be using recessed centerline lighting similar to what's commonly used on airport runways (even in snowy regions). They're designed to be robust enough for snow removal equipment to go over them without destroying them.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
I think we have a thread on this somewhere. Washington installed them in a few places. They are indeed solar and look similar to Stimsonite reflectors.
Quote from: realjd on October 16, 2016, 06:31:03 PM
They've done a few experiments here in Florida. I like them. We don't have snow plows though so they last longer.
All plows are not created equal. Warmer places with occasional snow can use "snowplowable" markers because the plows ride on rubber "shoes". This is because salt/temperatures melts the last little bit and plows don't need to contact the surface. New York and New England can't use the "snowplowable" markers because running the metal plow directly on the pavement destroys them. NYSDOT and NHDOT trialed them in the 80s and 90s and they didn't work well.
Northern Illinois gets a decent amount of snow and uses the recessed reflectors. The plows also do not ride on rubber shoes as one can see sparks from where they scrape the pavement. Needless to say, a number of reflectors go missing once winter is done.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 09:41:29 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 16, 2016, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
All plows are not created equal. Warmer places with occasional snow can use "snowplowable" markers because the plows ride on rubber "shoes". This is because salt/temperatures melts the last little bit and plows don't need to contact the surface. New York and New England can't use the "snowplowable" markers because running the metal plow directly on the pavement destroys them. NYSDOT and NHDOT trialed them in the 80s and 90s and they didn't work well.
In the areas that receive snow (such as Flagstaff), ADOT uses recessed reflectors. Flagstaff gets a LOT of snow.
Recessed reflectors were adopted by MassDOT to replace the failed "snowplowable" ones. I'm curious as to how those will hold up. I fear the recesses filling with snow/ice and becoming dangerous when people drive over them.
Here's an example from Illinois: https://goo.gl/maps/NA1Te9dRTTT2
Quote from: jzn110 on October 16, 2016, 11:09:07 PM
It's entirely possible that they could be using recessed centerline lighting similar to what's commonly used on airport runways (even in snowy regions). They're designed to be robust enough for snow removal equipment to go over them without destroying them.
I drove through the interchange in daylight today. They are definitely recessed and quite small (smaller than the runway lights, I think).
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
Washington installed them in a few places. They are indeed solar and look similar to Stimsonite reflectors.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 09:41:29 PM
Recessed reflectors were adopted by MassDOT to replace the failed "snowplowable" ones. I'm curious as to how those will hold up. I fear the recesses filling with snow/ice and becoming dangerous when people drive over them.
WSDOT's LED lane markings in Snoqualmie Pass are recessed. The snowplows take a big toll on the regular, painted lane markings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FgvTNIsCZg
Quote from: jakeroot on October 17, 2016, 08:52:59 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
Washington installed them in a few places. They are indeed solar and look similar to Stimsonite reflectors.
Quote from: cl94 on October 16, 2016, 09:41:29 PM
Recessed reflectors were adopted by MassDOT to replace the failed "snowplowable" ones. I'm curious as to how those will hold up. I fear the recesses filling with snow/ice and becoming dangerous when people drive over them.
WSDOT's LED lane markings in Snoqualmie Pass are recessed. The snowplows take a big toll on the regular, painted lane markings:
I figured they were. Basically, to alleviate any confusion, there are three types of reflective/lit markers:
1. Surface. These are just on the surface and are not plowable. As such, they can only be used in places that rarely/never get snow, such as the Pacific Coast and the South.
2. Snowplowable. These are encased in metal and recessed slightly into the road surface, although they protrude slightly. These work fine in places with rubber plow shoes, but as alluded to by Brandon and myself, using a metal plow on them greatly reduces their lifespan. Most places in the Midwest and Mid-Atlantic with markers use these if markers are used.
3. Recessed. These are the surface markers, except placed in a 1-2 foot groove that is slightly deeper than the marker is high. Example from Massachusetts (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6668404,-73.2390734,3a,36.2y,177.48h,75.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxmoH3FPS0A6jMTiC600aMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), another from Snoqualmie Pass (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.3997125,-121.4004662,3a,50.3y,337.85h,64.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stE139DmJM4P_Jta233e2Pw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656). These appear to be pretty resistant to plows, but are more of a pain to install and may cause issues with icing.
I drove through the interchange in PA that has them a couple months ago and they are definitely similar to the snowplowable Stimsonite markers, a different design than used in Washington.
MTO tried them out, they did not work well. I know 407ETR had some at one point, AsphaltPlanet could elaborate more on that as that installation was up in his neck of the woods.
Kentucky is now using dual depressed reflective markers throughout the state. They used recessed markers on many of their original pavings of their parkways and interstates and have started it back up. The difference is that instead of cutting a rectangular chunk out of the asphalt or concrete and placing one marker inside, they are using a diamond grinder (at least what it appears when I saw them working) and installing two markers.
NJ uses the snowplowable reflectors. We also have metal skids on the plows. But, the skids are slightly wider than the reflector, preventing the skid from messing up the reflector. The reflectors survive without issue thru the winter season.
In the entrance of the beach part of the town where my family is from (Tavernes de la Valldigna), they also installed solar powered cat-eye LED reflectors, but now they're almost all broken because of the weather and all the cars passing over them.
Yeah, those Oklahoma ones look like what remains in New York and New Hampshire. Do note, however, that NYSDOT Region 10 does still use and maintain them on occasion, but snowfall there is relatively limited thanks to the ocean.
Looks like Colorado is trying them on a short stretch of I-70 east between the Central City Parkway and the bottom of Floyd Hill.
I drove through there last light and was kind of freaky looking, but considering it was completely dark and the pavement was wet, they did come in handy and looked great!
Cross posted from the Ohio thread:
I just passed the OH 164 interchange on OH 11 northbound at Columbiana and saw what may be LED reflectors on the exit ramps. They seemed to be on the outsides of the stripes. The colour was distinctive - a blue/white 8,000 Kelvin 3-LED setup per unit.
I saw a display of these things from LaneLight at TRB. Somewhat similar in outward appearance to Stimsonite reflectors and they can be installed flush with the surface. This brand, unlike some others, is hardwired, so they theoretically last longer and through rougher conditions. Again, in places like Upstate New York that get a lot of snow and require heavy salting, they won't last.
I am assuming that's why these appeared to be outside of the stripe. I'm surprised more states do not recess their markers. Kentucky has started to recess theirs again, but I'm not sure of their success rate.
They generally don't because it's more expensive and takes longer. Recessing markers requires cutting a larger groove and putting a marker in, leaving a hole after the marker is installed (see image here (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.520338,-73.2280604,3a,46.1y,1.15h,67.34t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snVpxkZJt1GUsGV_aMmx07A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)). Snowplowable markers can be installed with a simple saw cut.
I don't think these will be reliable or last long. Solar lights have rechargeable batteries that fail after a period of time.
Also, I have a solar barricade light in my back yard, and it is not reliable in the winter. It does not get a sufficient charge on cloudy days.
My little cheap solar garden lights generally don't work at all in the winter. I suspect that LED pavement markers would have the same problems.
Quote from: Brian556 on January 17, 2017, 12:37:39 AM
I don't think these will be reliable or last long. Solar lights have rechargeable batteries that fail after a period of time.
Also, I have a solar barricade light in my back yard, and it is not reliable in the winter. It does not get a sufficient charge on cloudy days.
My little cheap solar garden lights generally don't work at all in the winter. I suspect that LED pavement markers would have the same problems.
Hence why at least one company moved to hardwired lights.
Those garden lights with tiny solar panels are cheap. You can't compare a $30 box-of-5 bought from Lowes with commercial and industrial variants.
Also: it's winter. And we've had little sun for weeks. They were all working.