patched California guide signs

[agentsteel53]

the glue stain should not have a number on the porcelain signs. 

For the white shields (1962-1972 for US, 1962-1964 for spade) that were peeled off, the glue stain should simply be the shield shape.



the older outline shields (1955-1962) were never glued on, but were instead part of the sign legend, and therefore would've been covered up with greenout. 

[TheStranger]

the glue stain should not have a number on the porcelain signs.  

Here's one mid-70s example from Cameron Kaiser's photo collection, of Route 31, where the digits left a mark without greenout:
http://www.floodgap.com/roadgap/mass/n31t.gif

Obviously post-porcelain, so I'm wondering what year that would date back to.

This one here (with 31 digits unglued) looks to be a mid-1980s example in comparison:
http://www.floodgap.com/roadgap/mass/n31r.jpg

 (Per my fictional example...US 50 was signed on the South Sacramento Freeway up to 1972 from what I've read - certainly was signed on that and part of today's Route 51 (to N Street) in the mid-1960s; US 99 signage in the area lasted into 1968 from what I recall.)

[agentsteel53]

overheads were changed away from being porcelain in April, 1973, so US-50 just barely doesn't make it. 

furthermore, outline shields stopped being used in 1962 on the US routes... except for a few isolated examples that keep popping up here and there, including on brand new retroreflective signs.

the 31 I think is a 1980s sign, similar to the 71.

[TheStranger]

agentsteel53: I get the sense that Sacramento underwent major resigning projects in the early 70s, followed by 1982, and then 2008-2009...resulting in a distinct lack of signs from the US 50/99E, US 99W, or US 40/I-80 eras - in this area, the examples of shield removal (with glue stains) that I am faimiliar with are...

- Interstate 80 shield off of the US 50 WEST - San Francisco sign at 65th Street, sign removed earlier this year and replaced with a retroreflective layout clone

- Route 99 shield on the ramp from today's US 50/Business 80 east to northbound I-5, I assume this was removed in 1999 when 99 was deemphasized in downtown

- Route 16 shield on Route 275/Capitol Mall, on overhead gantry dating back to 1967-1968, with Route 70 and 99 shields still up (70 having been truncated from downtown Sacramento since 1968)

In Woodland, there was, as of 2003 or 2004, an older overhead sign on East Street (which has not been Route 113 since 1990, and was at one point US 99W) with evidence of shield removal, I think an old 99W shield had been there.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=East+%26+Main,+Woodland&sll=38.691975,-121.764012&sspn=0.002374,0.004168&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Main+St+%26+East+St,+Woodland,+Yolo,+California&ll=38.676841,-121.765391&spn=0,0.008336&t=k&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.676923,-121.765384&panoid=h-Hyaw7TwLRnNVQH6j3H5A&cbp=12,21.35,,1,-4.09

There is one example in Vacaville (probably more than one, but one I can confirm) of an I-80 Sacramento sign with shield glue stain for what was a US 40 marker.

[agentsteel53]

agentsteel53: I get the sense that Sacramento underwent major resigning projects in the early 70s, followed by 1982, and then 2008-2009...resulting in a distinct lack of signs from the US 50/99E, US 99W, or US 40/I-80 eras - in this area, the examples of shield removal (with glue stains) that I am faimiliar with are...

the 1982 removal claimed the last bear shield in the state of CA that anyone knew about.  California/US shields survived as late as 2001 in Salinas, however!

- Interstate 80 shield off of the US 50 WEST - San Francisco sign at 65th Street, sign removed earlier this year and replaced with a retroreflective layout clone

speaking of 80 removals, there are some 880 removals on mainline 80.  You can see the larger 880 shield shadow underneath the smaller 80.

In Woodland, there was, as of 2003 or 2004, an older overhead sign on East Street (which has not been Route 113 since 1990, and was at one point US 99W) with evidence of shield removal, I think an old 99W shield had been there.

dang, I never paid attention to that sign, but I do think I may have a photo of it at home that's better than Street View.  I can't tell what the date stamp on the back is, other than that it's the white sticker, which tends to imply post-1964.  I got the photo in Sept 09.

There is one example in Vacaville (probably more than one, but one I can confirm) of an I-80 Sacramento sign with shield glue stain for what was a US 40 marker.

the eastbound one is gone as of last month.

[TheStranger]

the 1982 removal claimed the last bear shield in the state of CA that anyone knew about.

Where was that located?!

- Interstate 80 shield off of the US 50 WEST - San Francisco sign at 65th Street, sign removed earlier this year and replaced with a retroreflective layout clone

speaking of 80 removals, there are some 880 removals on mainline 80.  You can see the larger 880 shield shadow underneath the smaller 80.

Thanks for reminding me!

There is at least one at the 80/50 junction in West Sacramento that is still there (though not easy to see) that has been retained even after the 2009 signage upgrades (which did not add the exit number for 50 coming off of 80), AND...

Westbound on Business 80/US 50, there is a Business 80 San Francisco sign where an I-80 shield was clearly there previously.

Also forgot to mention some control city glue-stains near US 50 and Business 80 in midtown, where "Los Angeles" has been replaced with "Fresno" (after I-5 was built).  I think those signs are post-1964.

In Woodland, there was, as of 2003 or 2004, an older overhead sign on East Street (which has not been Route 113 since 1990, and was at one point US 99W) with evidence of shield removal, I think an old 99W shield had been there.

dang, I never paid attention to that sign, but I do think I may have a photo of it at home that's better than Street View.  I can't tell what the date stamp on the back is, other than that it's the white sticker, which tends to imply post-1964.  I got the photo in Sept 09.

If you can dig that up, that'd be great - I'd love to try a graphic recreation, faux-glue stains and all.

There is one example in Vacaville (probably more than one, but one I can confirm) of an I-80 Sacramento sign with shield glue stain for what was a US 40 marker.

the eastbound one is gone as of last month.

Hmm, I recall seeing at least one in that direction still there as of last weekend, but I'd have to remember which sign that was (I want to say it is near 505).  You're right in that one example got supplanted by a retroreflective sign.

[agentsteel53]

Where was that located?!

somewhere in west Sacramento.  It was a bear 16 with no logo, dating it to April or May 1957.  Brian of CalTrafficSigns.com alas did not get a photo of it.  He did, however, get a photo of a 1957-spec black guide sign with the old layout, that had an I-80 shield!  Just about the only example I know of a black sign with an interstate shield.



When did the Auburn bypass open?  I am trying to figure out if the 80 shield is a patch or not - the quality of the photo does not allow us to determine if there is any 'blackout' under the 80.  My guess is that the bypass dates to 1958 and that sign never had a US-40 shield on it.

Also forgot to mention some control city glue-stains near US 50 and Business 80 in midtown, where "Los Angeles" has been replaced with "Fresno" (after I-5 was built).  I think those signs are post-1964.

some very sloppy glue-stains, I may note.  I believe the CA-99 shields on those signs are original, indeed making them post-1964.  Those intersections and ramps are very narrow, tight, and high-speed, so I have not had much luck carefully studying those signs, as I had to pay attention to where I was going!  

If you can dig that up, that'd be great - I'd love to try a graphic recreation, faux-glue stains and all.

I'll look for it.  Don't know if I got it - I remember thinking "oh, that's an overhead that's not porcelain, must be post-1973" and paid it little mind.  But there are non-porcelain overheads that say "I-5 Bakersfield" in the Grapevine that date to 1971, so they must've been used - albeit intermittently - since 1960 or so when the button copy signs first started being installed, mainly by the side of the road.

Hmm, I recall seeing at least one in that direction still there as of last weekend, but I'd have to remember which sign that was (I want to say it is near 505).  You're right in that one example got supplanted by a retroreflective sign.

I must've been asleep at the wheel, then, as I did not notice any.  I've done that drive maybe 50 times in my life (80 from 680 to 505) so I probably was doing it on autopilot!

[TheStranger]

Where was that located?!

somewhere in west Sacramento.  It was a bear 16 with no logo, dating it to April or May 1957.

Interestingly, if 1982 was the year that example was removed...Route 16 was still on the River Road/Sunset Avenue/Reed Avenue/Sacramento Avenue/C Street alignment through the then unincorporated locale, so it probably was replaced with the modern green sign - as opposed to being removed.

I don't think the Reed Avenue exit off of I-80 (then I-880) ever acknowledged Route 16, since the signage there appears to be original.

some very sloppy glue-stains, I may note.  I believe the CA-99 shields on those signs are original, indeed making them post-1964.  Those intersections and ramps are very narrow, tight, and high-speed, so I have not had much luck carefully studying those signs, as I had to pay attention to where I was going! 

The glue stain for that particular example is on a paneled sign, making me guess early-70s installation (the Pioneer Bridge and that interchange complex were built 1968-1970 or so). 

For comparison, some of the 5/99 signs at today's 80/5 junction (then the 5/880 junction) had 99 shields awkwardly added after the original 1968 installs -
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ca/i-80/880w.jpg (1970s addition)
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Natomas&sll=38.623241,-121.517158&sspn=0.009505,0.016673&ie=UTF8&t=h&radius=0.54&split=1&rq=1&ev=zi&hq=Natomas&hnear=&ll=38.622705,-121.520762&spn=0,0.016673&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.622604,-121.520948&panoid=9bGFHhx_rbJKVSeLDFI8XA&cbp=12,63.11,,0,10.33 - this one looks to be a 1980s add, as evidenced by the light-green 99 shield with no state name

There is at least one that dates to the original installation, though -
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Natomas&sll=38.623241,-121.517158&sspn=0.009505,0.016673&ie=UTF8&t=h&radius=0.54&split=1&rq=1&ev=zi&hq=Natomas&hnear=&ll=38.621431,-121.523488&spn=0,0.016673&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.621372,-121.523616&panoid=tv_m79I_x5NONKgDrmmVdQ&cbp=12,62.72,,1,-2.47

And some of the signage seems to be 1982-era additions in which the dreaded "TO" banner started creeping in, even though the route in question IS part of Route 99 -
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Natomas&sll=38.629729,-121.508639&sspn=0.009571,0.016673&ie=UTF8&t=h&radius=0.54&split=1&rq=1&ev=p&hq=Natomas&hnear=&ll=38.629762,-121.508639&spn=0,0.016673&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.631208,-121.505632&panoid=9eSfKacOWOjZKF754Ktwiw&cbp=12,239.41,,0,7.78 - appears to be the direct replacement from the one in Michael Summa's photo

Also intriguing to see the different post-1982 southbound 5/99 control cities depending on which direction one was heading on 80 (then, 880) - "Sacramento" eastbound, "Los Angeles" westbound.

---

Here's one oddity I plan to make in graphic form, at the split of the ramp from US 50/Business 80 to I-5/Route 99 and the ramp to Q Street:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Q+%26+5th,+Sacramento&sll=38.631208,-121.505632&sspn=0.009571,0.016673&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Q+St+%26+5th+St,+Sacramento,+California&ll=38.568435,-121.510141&spn=0,0.008336&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.568582,-121.510037&panoid=H3Jkj9M8XguFy2awmy-QmQ&cbp=12,30.45,,0,-0.68

The TO 99 (with small shield)  here appears to have been part of the 1970s sign upgrade, which would make it the earliest that the "TO" directional was in play.

[TheStranger]

When did the Auburn bypass open?  I am trying to figure out if the 80 shield is a patch or not - the quality of the photo does not allow us to determine if there is any 'blackout' under the 80.  My guess is that the bypass dates to 1958 and that sign never had a US-40 shield on it.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/structur/strmaint/brlog/logpdf/logd03.pdf

Looks to be a 1957 build from the bridge log, specifically the segment between Route 193 and Route 49.  Looking at the photo in question, I'm surprised that that was signed as 80 only, considering the DOH's then-vigilance in signing concurrencies accurately (definitely no longer the case with post-1964 CalTrans).

[agentsteel53]

The glue stain for that particular example is on a paneled sign, making me guess early-70s installation (the Pioneer Bridge and that interchange complex were built 1968-1970 or so). 

I can't keep track of all the signs at those intersections - can you give me a map to this one?

the one I am thinking of is porcelain, has LA patched with a very widely spaced "F r e s n o" from what I remember, and the 99 shield is a patch that is porcelain as well.  Unless I am utterly misremembering, which I am capable of doing quite well!

as for the bear 16 - it may have been replaced with a green sign; I do not remember where it is and neither does Brian.

[agentsteel53]

Looks to be a 1957 build from the bridge log, specifically the segment between Route 193 and Route 49.  Looking at the photo in question, I'm surprised that that was signed as 80 only, considering the DOH's then-vigilance in signing concurrencies accurately (definitely no longer the case with post-1964 CalTrans).

could there have been a vertical alignment of the concurrent shields?  40 above 80, or the other way around - did Cal Div Hwys do such a thing?  I've never seen an example, but the sign layout would support such an arrangement.  If this were the case, the 80 shield would've been peeled off and and placed on top of a very tall black patch when it came time to replace 40/80 with just 80 in 1964.  (Similar to the 15/91 and 40/66 signs in Barstow that had the original 15 interstate shield moved over, half-covering the 91 patch.)

alternately, the 80 is on top of a 40 - this violates the sign-all-concurrencies rule, but if that is a 1957 sign (plausible, April 1957 to Aug 1958 was when they used that no-logo style) then there may or may not have been an interstate shield on the sign to begin with.  

AASHO adopted the interstate shield in July, 1957 and I'm going to have to look through my Colossal Stack of Caltrans Layout Sheets to find the oldest known California interstate layout.  I believe it's a 1958, though.

double-bypass-alternately (Alt S-A1A-A?), the gantry is from 1958, after interstate shields were adopted, and for some reason Cal Div Hwys replaced a perfectly good 1957 sign with a perfectly good 1958 one.  Been known to happen; note the East LA Interchange where the Fourth St/Santa Monica Fwy/Santa Ana Fwy sign was replaced with a near-identical example that squeezed the letters in Santa Monica Fwy just enough to fit in an I-10 shield.

[TheStranger]

The glue stain for that particular example is on a paneled sign, making me guess early-70s installation (the Pioneer Bridge and that interchange complex were built 1968-1970 or so).  

I can't keep track of all the signs at those intersections - can you give me a map to this one?

Absolutely!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=US+50+%26&sll=38.568905,-121.51292&sspn=0.004991,0.008336&ie=UTF8&t=k&radius=0.27&split=1&filter=0&rq=1&ev=zi&hq=US+50+%26&hnear=&ll=38.568905,-121.51292&spn=0,0.008336&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.568637,-121.51311&panoid=yOl8eW56TXMk23OS68bL7w&cbp=12,129.57,,0,4.42

You can't see the glue stain in this shot due to the sun glare, but it's not hard to view at driving speeds.  (It's on the left sign for I-5 Redding)

the one I am thinking of is porcelain, has LA patched with a very widely spaced "F r e s n o" from what I remember, and the 99 shield is a patch that is porcelain as well.  Unless I am utterly misremembering, which I am capable of doing quite well!

Good memory - this is the ramp at the 80B/99 split (originally the 80/99 split, and years ago the 80/99E junction!) going along southbound 99:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=US+50+%26+CA+99,+Sacramento&sll=38.568636,-121.513113&sspn=0.005025,0.008336&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=California+99+%26+U.S.+50,+Sacramento,+California+95818&ll=38.558834,-121.476125&spn=0,0.004168&t=k&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.558864,-121.476257&panoid=_AnIG8fBBLQPq5mwoZe3bA&cbp=12,137.84,,1,-5.71

[agentsteel53]

if you PM me your email address, I can send you the colossal heap of Div Hwys layout sheets.  350+ pages, in one glorious PDF* file.

* about the only time you'll ever see me refer to PDF as "glorious" 

[agentsteel53]

You can't see the glue stain in this shot due to the sun glare, but it's not hard to view at driving speeds.  (It's on the left sign for I-5 Redding)

I think I remember that one.  Since it's not porcelain, I haven't ogled it as carefully as I have various others!

Good memory - this is the ramp at the 80B/99 split (originally the 80/99 split, and years ago the 80/99E junction!) going along southbound 99:

that's the one!  So did that one at one point have a US-99E shield under what is now state 99?  Also, what is that SOUTH patch's major malfunction?  Did it cover up a "WEST" or something?  Or is it just falling apart in an extra-shoddy manner?

[TheStranger]

could there have been a vertical alignment of the concurrent shields?  40 on top of 80, or the other way around - did Cal Div Hwys do such a thing?  I've never seen an example.  If this were the case, the 80 shield would've been peeled off and and placed on top of a very tall black patch when it came time to replace 40/80 with just 80 in 1964.  (Similar to the 15/91 and 40/66 signs in Barstow that had the original 15 interstate shield moved over, half-covering the 91 patch.)

Vertical alignment has existed in newer signage (i.e. that 5/99 sign in Natomas on eastbound 80)...not sure if it existed pre-1964 though.

For comparison, here's horizontal alignment for a contemporaneous 40/80 sign in West Sacramento, at today's Exit 81:
www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=CA19580801

So did that one at one point have a US-99E shield under what is now state 99?  Also, what is that SOUTH patch's major malfunction?  Did it cover up a "WEST" or something?  Or is it just falling apart in an extra-shoddy manner?

My guess is that that sign dates back to the TEMP I-5 era (thus, late-60s/early-70s after 99E was decomissioned), though I don't think it ever had that signage on there (hard to tell from a distance). 

The other two Fresno-supplanting-Los Angeles signs are on surface streets near onramps, IIRC, and don't have shields.

[agentsteel53]

Vertical alignment has existed in newer signage (i.e. that 5/99 sign in Natomas on eastbound 80)...not sure if it existed pre-1964 though.

you are right on that - there is this 5/8 sign in San Diego.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=san+diego+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.188298,70.488281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Diego,+California&ll=32.77042,-117.20585&spn=0.002612,0.006346&z=18&layer=c&cbll=32.770365,-117.205955&panoid=3L2M7jG1MFIO5DeqSlaRJg&cbp=12,227.43,,0,-10.37

though that refers to two distinct routes.  (Also notable for having state-named 1957 spec surface-level shields, all button-copied up and nailed to the green sign.)

My guess is that that sign dates back to the TEMP I-5 era (thus, late-60s/early-70s after 99E was decomissioned), though I don't think it ever had that signage on there (hard to tell from a distance). 

I don't recall seeing evidence of a TEMP banner, but then again since I don't recall seeing either a wide US shield, or an interstate under that state 99, it implies the older signage was on there for a very short period of time - not long enough to develop a shadow of grime and fading. 

would 99/TEMP 5 have been cosigned, or would it have just been TEMP 5?  If there were a state 99 (outline shield), that would've been part of the porcelain sign and therefore needed to be patched with a solid green square - the black/white US and red/white/blue interstate shields tended to have been separate parts that could be moved around, but the state shields (and older US outline shields) were innate to the sign background.

I don't remember seeing any solid green square - just the green patch over Los Angeles.

[TheStranger]

Vertical alignment has existed in newer signage (i.e. that 5/99 sign in Natomas on eastbound 80)...not sure if it existed pre-1964 though.

you are right on that - there is this 5/8 sign in San Diego.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=san+diego+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.188298,70.488281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Diego,+California&ll=32.77042,-117.20585&spn=0.002612,0.006346&z=18&layer=c&cbll=32.770365,-117.205955&panoid=3L2M7jG1MFIO5DeqSlaRJg&cbp=12,227.43,,0,-10.37

though that refers to two distinct routes.  (Also notable for having state-named 1957 spec surface-level shields, all button-copied up and nailed to the green sign.)

1966 build?  8 in that area used to be US 80, but 80 and 395 once ran down today's 163 into downtown San Diego.

My guess is that that sign dates back to the TEMP I-5 era (thus, late-60s/early-70s after 99E was decomissioned), though I don't think it ever had that signage on there (hard to tell from a distance). 

I don't recall seeing evidence of a TEMP banner, but then again since I don't recall seeing either a wide US shield, or an interstate under that state 99, it implies the older signage was on there for a very short period of time - not long enough to develop a shadow of grime and fading. 

would 99/TEMP 5 have been cosigned, or would it have just been TEMP 5?  If there were a state 99 (outline shield), that would've been part of the porcelain sign and therefore needed to be patched with a solid green square - the black/white US and red/white/blue interstate shields tended to have been separate parts that could be moved around, but the state shields (and older US outline shields) were innate to the sign background.

I don't remember seeing any solid green square - just the green patch over Los Angeles.

I'm not sure how TEMP I-5 was ever signed in the area - part of me wants to guess that it was simply a trailblazer add-on, as opposed to an overhead marker of any sort.  Maybe it was placed over the US 50 portion of then-existing Route 99/US 50 signage (which did exist from 1964-1972)? 

IIRC, Temp I-5 lasted into the late 70s.

[agentsteel53]

1966 build?  8 in that area used to be US 80, but 80 and 395 once ran down today's 163 into downtown San Diego.

dunno; have never stopped and gotten out since it's a very long walk from the nearest parking to that intersection.  So I couldn't tell you what the date stamp is on the back of that sign.  I will have to look sometime.

I'm not sure how TEMP I-5 was ever signed in the area - part of me wants to guess that it was simply a trailblazer add-on, as opposed to an overhead marker of any sort.  Maybe it was placed over the US 50 portion of then-existing Route 99/US 50 signage (which did exist from 1964-1972)?  

is that Fresno-patched sign a CA-99/US-50 sign originally?  The patch for CA-99 must cover up something - wonder what it is, though.  "50 WEST/Los Angeles" doesn't make much sense, though. 

there is a sign at the end of business 205 in Tracy that has covered up 50/99 shields.  I believe that sign is early 1960s, and therefore has two US outline shields patched.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tracy,+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.188298,70.488281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tracy,+San+Joaquin,+California&ll=37.739821,-121.370516&spn=0.009825,0.025384&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.739848,-121.370408&panoid=8PeMS6wpK96Z_LUSunBS9w&cbp=12,78.34,,0,1.88

oddly, I've never walked around to the back of that sign to check the date stamp.  oops, gotta do that before it vanishes!

IIRC, Temp I-5 lasted into the late 70s.

I don't know much about TEMP I-5.  I have seen a single photo of a reassurance marker for its bizarre semi-cousin, interstate 5W.



do you know where this is, when the photo was taken, and what US route is missing from underneath the second WEST banner?  My guess is 80/40 and a 1965 or so photo.

[xonhulu]

Did you enhance the 5W shield?  It seems much clearer than the rest of the photo, comparing the lettering on the shield to the lettering on the LANE ENDS sign.

[TheStranger]

I'm not sure how TEMP I-5 was ever signed in the area - part of me wants to guess that it was simply a trailblazer add-on, as opposed to an overhead marker of any sort.  Maybe it was placed over the US 50 portion of then-existing Route 99/US 50 signage (which did exist from 1964-1972)?  

is that Fresno-patched sign a CA-99/US-50 sign originally?  The patch for CA-99 must cover up something - wonder what it is, though.  "50 WEST/Los Angeles" doesn't make much sense, though.

50 West - Stockton?  I'm not certain simply because 80 east was built through this area in 1968, so any acknowledgement for 50 at all would be rather surprising.

there is a sign at the end of business 205 in Tracy that has covered up 50/99 shields.  I believe that sign is early 1960s, and therefore has two US outline shields patched.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=tracy,+ca&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.188298,70.488281&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Tracy,+San+Joaquin,+California&ll=37.739821,-121.370516&spn=0.009825,0.025384&z=16&layer=c&cbll=37.739848,-121.370408&panoid=8PeMS6wpK96Z_LUSunBS9w&cbp=12,78.34,,0,1.88

oddly, I've never walked around to the back of that sign to check the date stamp.  oops, gotta do that before it vanishes!

Actually, the Manteca-Stockton sign I think was just US 50, and the other sign was TO Route 33 (which ran up here until the early 1970s).

I don't know much about TEMP I-5.  I have seen a single photo of a reassurance marker for its bizarre semi-cousin, interstate 5W.

do you know where this is, when the photo was taken, and what US route is missing from underneath the second WEST banner?  My guess is 80/40 and a 1965 or so photo.

I actually have always thought the missing US shield is for US 50, and I think this is along I-580 near downtown Oakland ca. 1963.   (Otherwise, it'd be I-5W/I-80, US 40, and Route 17)

[agentsteel53]

50 West - Stockton?  I'm not certain simply because 80 east was built through this area in 1968, so any acknowledgement for 50 at all would be rather surprising.

the patch has a distinct tab on it, as though it were covering the bottom of the "g" in Los Angeles.

Actually, the Manteca-Stockton sign I think was just US 50, and the other sign was TO Route 33 (which ran up here until the early 1970s).

which explains why it was entirely omitted, and not just replaced with a state route 99.  

I actually have always thought the missing US shield is for US 50, and I think this is along I-580 near downtown Oakland ca. 1963.   (Otherwise, it'd be I-5W/I-80, US 40, and Route 17)

the large building is very distinctive; that should be enough to identify it.  Which direction is it going in; north or south?  Must be north if it coincides with "west 50", but "west I-5W" is pretty senseless in any case.

here's what Kurumi's 3di page has to say:

I-580 between I-5 and I-80 was once part of a planned I-5W loop, along with I-505; that idea was scuttled in about 1964. Mike Ballard has seen a photo of I-580 signed as I-5W, which would have been around 1962. Sections of I-580 started opening in the mid-1960s. Until the mid-1980s (see below), I-580 ended at the "MacArthur Maze" interchange with I-80 at the Bay Bridge approach.

... and then they made that utterly stupid San Rafael extension, resulting in that hideous north-south I-80/I-580 multiplex that is signed east-west or west-east, depending on your present level of utter confusion.  I've missed the correct on-ramp in that stretch more times than I care to count.

what was wrong with CA-17 again?  Hell, if they wanted the interstate shield so badly, why not extend the already north-south signed 880 up to San Rafael?  Or do something - anything! - with 980 to take over one branch or the other of old 17, as opposed to being the seemingly random last mile of the 24 freeway.

[agentsteel53]

Did you enhance the 5W shield?  It seems much clearer than the rest of the photo, comparing the lettering on the shield to the lettering on the LANE ENDS sign.

I have two separate scans - the first is higher quality, but cropped; the second is a lousy scan but shows the context.  So I overlaid the two.  I need to find the original Cal Highways and Public Works magazine that the photo is from, and make a good scan myself.

[TheStranger]

the large building is very distinctive; that should be enough to identify it.  Which direction is it going in; north or south?  Must be north if it coincides with "west 50", but "west I-5W" is pretty senseless in any case.

My guess as to why I-5W "west" instead of north - CalTrans was starting to acknowledge direction changes in routes (i.e. Route 70 post-1964), which it hadn't in the past (US 6 signed "east-west" in Los Angeles)

I'll try to figure out where that photo was taken - definitely somewhere on the MacArthur Freeway - the landscaping on the side of the freeway in Google Street View is complicating matters a little.  (Also, today's stack with 980/24 did not exist at the time, so that may also complicate matters in finding the photo location.)

what was wrong with CA-17 again?  Hell, if they wanted the interstate shield so badly, why not extend the already north-south signed 880 up to San Rafael?  Or do something - anything! - with 980 to take over one branch or the other of old 17, as opposed to being the seemingly random last mile of the 24 freeway.

From Kurumi's site:

http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i880.html

Until January 1, 1986, Interstate 880 was part of CA 17, which stretched from Santa Cruz to San Rafael. An Oakland coalition lobbied in 1983 to have the road promoted to interstate status to get more funds for repair, persuading Rep. Glenn Anderson (D - Long Beach) to ride on the road. "Wow, I had no idea it was that bad," Rep. Pete Stark (D - San Leandro) recalled him saying. [2] The 1983 legislation also gave us I-580 and I-238. (Los Angelenos would recognize the name: I-105 there is named the Glenn Anderson Freeway.)

However, the interstate promotion seemed to backfire early on, when little interstate money actually came in, and changes required by interstate standards would cost about $450 million, according to a DOT branch chief. Posting I-880 signs alone cost more than $250,000. [4]

IIRC, 180 was the suggested number for both 238 and the 580 extension (originally specifically the latter), and CalTrans balked both times due to not wanting to renumber Route 180 or Route 480.  (Considering they were willing to jettison the # for 1964-1968 105/110 and renumbered the 80 extension west of 101, why they wanted to preserve the 480 number that badly is anyone's guess.)  

[agentsteel53]

My guess as to why I-5W "west" instead of north - CalTrans was starting to acknowledge direction changes in routes (i.e. Route 70 post-1964), which it hadn't in the past (US 6 signed "east-west" in Los Angeles)

I'll try to figure out where that photo was taken, the landscaping on the side of the freeway in Google Street View is complicating matters a little.

I don't think 5W was ever signed as a full loop (with the 80 and 505 segments), just along what became 580.  So in that way it was a spur route like the former 15W (now I-86) in Idaho.

[TheStranger]

My guess as to why I-5W "west" instead of north - CalTrans was starting to acknowledge direction changes in routes (i.e. Route 70 post-1964), which it hadn't in the past (US 6 signed "east-west" in Los Angeles)

I'll try to figure out where that photo was taken, the landscaping on the side of the freeway in Google Street View is complicating matters a little.

I don't think 5W was ever signed as a full loop (with the 80 and 505 segments), just along what became 580.  So in that way it was a spur route like the former 15W (now I-86) in Idaho.

505 didn't have any construction started on it until 1968 - but was proposed as 5W pre-1964, IIRC.