Passing on the Right

[Rothman]

Yes and no.  If I am passing a car and they are trying to slip between me and the car -- possibly cutting me off -- I do speed up a little, pass the intended car and then move over for them.

But, there are those embarrassing times where I am not going as well with traffic as I think I am and am blocking the left lane inappropriately.  An example of this is when I think I'm catching up well enough to a car in the right lane a good distance in front of me when I am not, given how fast traffic is actually going.  In those cases, instead of moving in front of the faster car, I let them go by and then move over.  I don't impede their travel.

I suppose it comes down to the fact that I do my best to use the left lane for passing and the distance between me and whatever car I am passing is a major factor.

[UCFKnights]

I don't understand the concept of this thread even. If I'm in the right lane because I'm not passing anyone, like I should be, is someone expecting me to pull into the left lane and wait behind the person? Or just slow down and pretend that the person in the left lane is actually in my lane like they should be?

The interstate nearest me is 3 lanes, and the locals all apparently think the right lane is only for accelerating upon entry and preparing to exit. Cars typically pull out of the right lane once they're at speed even if there is no one at all in front of them. By me utilizing the right lane, I usually never have to change my speed, whereas in the left lane, you're likely to have to speed up and slow down to deal with people trying to pass. Am I supposed to move over to the left lane, over the middle lane, to pass someone in the middle lane, or just stay in the right lane?

I assume you're talking about an urban area with 3 lanes?
Over here, we have a 7-mile interstate stretch within urban area (which happens to be my daily commute road) with 7 exits, two of those being interchanges with another freeway - and a lot of traffic. If you head past the last of seven exits and insist on staying in right lane, you probably caused a few people to maneuver around you. If there are few such right-bound cars in a row, one can easily face a choice of stopping on a ramp and causing a backup (and hopefully no accident), or acceleration to 30-40 MPH above speed limit to jump ahead of such queue. So yes, there are times when right lane better be used as a ramp

More suburban/rural... and the ramps all have acceleration lanes giving almost every vehicle plenty of time to accelerate and find a good time to merge around people going the speed limit. Why would they need to be 30-40 above the speed limit? I don't drive more then 9 over. I do occasionally need to move over for a merging truck that couldn't accelerate, and this topic, to me at least, seems to indicate a no congestion situation.

[kalvado]

Why would they need to be 30-40 above the speed limit? I don't drive more then 9 over. I do occasionally need to move over for a merging truck that couldn't accelerate, and this topic, to me at least, seems to indicate a no congestion situation.

If you have a two-lane ramp with one lane quickly ending and second becoming an exit-only lane of 2-lane exit in less than a mile , and you have traffic getting into the exit , and some people just keeping right... gaps to move into through lane are few and far in between.

[webny99]

Bonus question: Do you allow others to pass you on the right?

If someone's approaching fast on my right, I'll often opt to quickly switch places with them. But not always. Better to let it go in certain circumstances.

Khm... May I ask, if someone is  approaching fast on your right.... why you're not in the right lane to begin with?!

Usually I am, so it doesn't happen often. But sometimes I've just completed a pass on the left and move to the middle lane, only to find a car on the far right also passing and in fact gaining on me. Other times, I've just make a lane switch based on a prediction about traffic flow which turns out to be inaccurate, especially in areas with left exits.

[kalvado]

Bonus question: Do you allow others to pass you on the right?

If someone's approaching fast on my right, I'll often opt to quickly switch places with them. But not always. Better to let it go in certain circumstances.

Khm... May I ask, if someone is  approaching fast on your right.... why you're not in the right lane to begin with?!

Usually I am, so it doesn't happen often. But sometimes I've just completed a pass on the left and move to the middle lane, only to find a car on the far right also passing and in fact gaining on me. Other times, I've just make a lane switch based on a prediction about traffic flow which turns out to be inaccurate, especially in areas with left exits.

Excuses, excuses...  Only to prevent someone from passing you...

[jeffandnicole]

Bonus question: Do you allow others to pass you on the right?

If someone's approaching fast on my right, I'll often opt to quickly switch places with them. But not always. Better to let it go in certain circumstances.

Khm... May I ask, if someone is  approaching fast on your right.... why you're not in the right lane to begin with?!

Exactly. He's failing to keep right except when passing.  When another vehicle sees the right lane is open, suddenly web decides to move over.  Now he's created 2 dangerous conditions.  The other driver isn't exactly "trading places", but more like cursing Webny for cutting in front of him.

[webny99]

sometimes I've just completed a pass on the left and move to the middle lane, only to find a car on the far right also passing and in fact gaining on me. Other times, I've just make a lane switch based on a prediction about traffic flow which turns out to be inaccurate, especially in areas with left exits.

Excuses, excuses...

That's what you wanted, wasn't it? You literally asked me to explain why I wouldn't be in the right lane, so I gave some very feasible, legitimate, reasons. In fact, both things have happened to me within the past week. And neither scenario is preventable unless several drivers did something different, not just me.

Only to prevent someone from passing you...

I don't know where you pulled that from. Switching places with another driver, to allow a correct passing maneuver doesn't "prevent" anyone from passing.

[jeffandnicole]

I don't know where you pulled that from. Switching places with another driver, to allow a correct passing maneuver doesn't "prevent" anyone from passing.

Explain why you weren't in the right lane to begin with.

[kalvado]

sometimes I've just completed a pass on the left and move to the middle lane, only to find a car on the far right also passing and in fact gaining on me. Other times, I've just make a lane switch based on a prediction about traffic flow which turns out to be inaccurate, especially in areas with left exits.

Excuses, excuses...

That's what you wanted, wasn't it? You literally asked me to explain why I wouldn't be in the right lane, so I gave some very feasible, legitimate, reasons. In fact, both things have happened to me within the past week. And neither scenario is preventable unless several drivers did something different, not just me.

Only to prevent someone from passing you...

I don't know where you pulled that from. Switching places with another driver, to allow a correct passing maneuver doesn't "prevent" anyone from passing.

Actually what I am trying to understand is what causes you to go into some quite strange behavior patterns - like cutting off faster moving vehicles, expressing aggression towards other drivers, multiple unnecessary lane changes.. 
There is one factor you don't like me mentioning, that may partially explain all this, but overall my growing impression is that insistence on KREP is correlated with aggressive and unsafe road behavior.

[webny99]

When another vehicle sees the right lane is open, suddenly web decides to move over.  Now he's created 2 dangerous conditions.  The other driver isn't exactly "trading places", but more like cursing Webny for cutting in front of him.

Suddenly decides to move over? You are clearly not familiar with the amount of passing on the right around here, and must have also misunderstood what I meant by "switching places".

Anyways, let me outline in a bit more detail one of the scenarios in which I wouldn't be in the right lane, and someone is approaching on the right:

I'm on a six lane highway approaching some middle lane campers. The right and left lanes are both available to use for passing, but I choose the left, since I figure I'll be past and moved right again before I slow anyone down. Someone else comes up going ever-so-slightly faster than me, and chooses to pass on the right. I finish passing first, and move into the center lane. But the person on my right has almost caught up to me.
Now I have a choice: move right, or let them pass on the right. Obviously, it depends how close they are, whether there's upcoming exits, etc. But I certainly wouldn't cut them off; I'd ensure they could smoothly move left without braking, and if they couldn't, I'd stay in the center lane. It's not like I'm committed to one particular approach, it really depends on the specifics.

I think that sufficiently addresses your further comment (which you posted while I was composing this post).

[Jardine]

Hasn't happened for a while, but I have been passed on the right hand shoulder while traveling in the right lane at the speed limit.  Usually when there are a bunch of trucks passing me on the left and they just aren't going fast enough over the speed limit to make everyone else happy.

[kalvado]

When another vehicle sees the right lane is open, suddenly web decides to move over.  Now he's created 2 dangerous conditions.  The other driver isn't exactly "trading places", but more like cursing Webny for cutting in front of him.

Suddenly decides to move over? You are clearly not familiar with the amount of passing on the right around here, and must have also misunderstood what I meant by "switching places".

Anyways, let me outline in a bit more detail one of the scenarios in which I wouldn't be in the right lane, and someone is approaching on the right:

I'm on a six lane highway approaching some middle lane campers. The right and left lanes are both available to use for passing, but I choose the left, since I figure I'll be past and moved right again before I slow anyone down. Someone else comes up going ever-so-slightly faster than me, and chooses to pass on the right. I finish passing first, and move into the center lane. But the person on my right has almost caught up to me.
Now I have a choice: move right, or let them pass on the right. Obviously, it depends how close they are, whether there's upcoming exits, etc. But I certainly wouldn't cut them off; I'd ensure they could smoothly move left without braking, and if they couldn't, I'd stay in the center lane. It's not like I'm committed to one particular approach, it really depends on the specifics.

I think that sufficiently addresses your further comment (which you posted while I was composing this post).

OK, let's see. You are doing 4  unnecessary lane changes, and cutting off at least one other car. Good job for keeping our accident rate up!

Passing on the right on multilane road is explicitly legal in NY. Anything else is just your agression.

[jeffandnicole]

When another vehicle sees the right lane is open, suddenly web decides to move over.  Now he's created 2 dangerous conditions.  The other driver isn't exactly "trading places", but more like cursing Webny for cutting in front of him.

Suddenly decides to move over? You are clearly not familiar with the amount of passing on the right around here, and must have also misunderstood what I meant by "switching places".

That means that people aren't keeping right except to pass.  Since passing on the right is a legal move as noted by Kalvado, there's nothing wrong in doing it.

Anyways, let me outline in a bit more detail one of the scenarios in which I wouldn't be in the right lane, and someone is approaching on the right:

I'm on a six lane highway approaching some middle lane campers. The right and left lanes are both available to use for passing, but I choose the left, since I figure I'll be past and moved right again before I slow anyone down. Someone else comes up going ever-so-slightly faster than me, and chooses to pass on the right. I finish passing first, and move into the center lane. But the person on my right has almost caught up to me.
Now I have a choice: move right, or let them pass on the right. Obviously, it depends how close they are, whether there's upcoming exits, etc. But I certainly wouldn't cut them off; I'd ensure they could smoothly move left without braking, and if they couldn't, I'd stay in the center lane. It's not like I'm committed to one particular approach, it really depends on the specifics.

I think that sufficiently addresses your further comment (which you posted while I was composing this post).

The thing about seeing behind you - you can't see if they're braking. 

Also, if you're in the middle lane, you're one of the middle lane campers as well.  You're part of the problem here.

Besides, going back to the first thing: It's "Keep Right Except To Pass", not "Keep Center Except To Pass".  If you were in the right lane to begin with, you could just continue in that lane without merging at all.  Since you're in the center lane, and a slower vehicle is also in the center lane, you decide to pass on the left, which is perfectly fine.  But to merge back to the center lane, then suddenly merge to the right lane because you see a faster car in the right lane, is an asinine move on your part, which most likely confuses and annoys the person you're merging in front of, regardless of the distance. 

I see it on the highways myself - there's a car in the center or left lane.  I'm in the right or center lane.  Suddenly that car moves in front of me.  Now I have to move over to pass him.  That's two lane switches that didn't have to happen if the lead car just stayed in their lane until I passed.

[hotdogPi]

In my experience, on a freeway with 3 lanes in each direction, even if traffic is free-flowing, not everyone can use the right lane; there's not enough capacity for every car to use a single lane.

[webny99]

actually what I am trying to understand is what causes you to go into some quite strange behavior patterns - like cutting off faster moving vehicles, expressing aggression towards other drivers, multiple unnecessary lane changes..

Cutting people off is not something I do, ever. I have, at times, expressed irritation, but only when provoked for extended periods of time. You have to very persistently do the wrong thing before I'll go into the red zone, and it has happened, but it doesn't happen often.
Regarding multiple lane changes, I actually think it's enjoyable and quite relaxing to apply the European mindset on US freeways, especially low-volume ones. Drivers in this country tend to make a big deal about lane changes, when really, moving left-right, left-right, is so much more efficient (and, as I said, enjoyable, and far from unsafe - though it would be interesting to establish a minimum spacing for doing this).

There is one factor you don't like me mentioning, that may partially explain all this, but overall my growing impression is that insistence on KREP is correlated with aggressive and unsafe road behavior.

You hadn't mentioned it until now, so I never had an opportunity to say I don't like you mentioning it. I don't like people making stuff up, but that's not specific to you 

[jeffandnicole]

In my experience, on a freeway with 3 lanes in each direction, even if traffic is free-flowing, not everyone can use the right lane; there's not enough capacity for every car to use a single lane.

It's never expected that everyone should be using the right lane.  I don't understand why people think that, other than using it as an excuse why they hog the other lanes. 

[kalvado]

Cutting people off is not something I do, ever. I

If someone's approaching fast on my right, I'll often opt to quickly switch places with them.

This is exactly what cutting off is - changing into the lane where someone else reasonably expects to see no cars.

You hadn't mentioned it until now, so I never had an opportunity to say I don't like you mentioning it. I don't like people making stuff up, but that's not specific to you 

It is an observation. There are at least 3 people in this thread who seems not to be shy about their unsafe habits. I'll just keep monitoring.
Some are really hilarious.

I'll be cruising along at 80 mph in the left lane . . .

I started tailgating the traffic . . .

I decided and successfully used the left shoulder to pass the vehicle . . .

Common sense just doesn't register with some people . . .

You very much seem to be one of those people.

Oh, and btw... if you're applying european mindset  - you're driving just below posted speed limit, right?

[hotdogPi]

Oh, and btw... if you're applying european mindset  - you're driving just below posted speed limit, right?

Except Europe would post the speed limit higher than upstate NY (and most of the US) would.

[webny99]

Also, if you're in the middle lane, you're one of the middle lane campers as well.  You're part of the problem here.

Come on. Using the middle lane does not make you a middle lane camper. In fact, the middle lane, by definition, is between the left and right lanes, so it's a bit hard to get from one to the other without using the middle lane.

But to merge back to the center lane, then suddenly merge to the right lane because you see a faster car in the right lane, is an asinine move on your part, which most likely confuses and annoys the person you're merging in front of, regardless of the distance.

I'm pretty sure they'd prefer to pass me on the left, and if it really confuses them, they should not really be on the road. Keep right is a concept all drivers are familiar with; whether they prefer to adhere is a different matter, but someone moving right when they see you approaching couldn't possibly be unexpected.

I see it on the highways myself - there's a car in the center or left lane.  I'm in the right or center lane.  Suddenly that car moves in front of me.  Now I have to move over to pass him.  That's two lane switches that didn't have to happen if the lead car just stayed in their lane until I passed.

Lane switches are not inherently bad. It's how freeways work, and if the maneuver enables faster traffic to move by on the left, so be it. Trying to avoid lane switches, to me, suggests an indescribable degree of laziness. We're talking about less energy and about as much intuition as hitting snooze on your alarm.

[kalvado]

Oh, and btw... if you're applying european mindset  - you're driving just below posted speed limit, right?

Except Europe would post the speed limit higher than upstate NY (and most of the US) would.

And I believe that is part of a common problem. We want to have a cake and eat it too - we want slower traffic to keep right AND we want someone driving "just" 5 MPH above speed limit to be considered slow. Coherent rules would make life better for everyone.

[kalvado]

Lane switches are not inherently bad. It's how freeways work, and if the maneuver enables faster traffic to move by on the left, so be it. Trying to avoid lane switches, to me, suggests an indescribable degree of laziness. We're talking about less energy and about as much intuition as hitting snooze on your alarm.

Lane change is not inherently bad - but it is a maneuver with associated degree of hazard. We can work to minimize those hazards - but risks cannot be fully eliminated, and lane change may increase chance of an accident. In general, we accept this risk as a necessary evil. No need to bring more evil on the road, though.

[webny99]

It's never expected that everyone should be using the right lane.

Maybe not in Jersey. But, yes, it is the original premise that everyone should use the right lane. As volumes climb, it becomes less and less feasible.

However, oftentimes volumes are low enough that the middle lane campers actually should have been (and could easily be) on the right. Then - not at rush hour - is when the expectation is for everyone to keep to the right lane, using the far left lane only as demand increases.

[webny99]

There are at least 3 people in this thread who seems not to be shy about their unsafe habits. I'll just keep monitoring.
Some are really hilarious.

I'll be cruising along at 80 mph in the left lane . . .

I started tailgating the traffic . . .

I decided and successfully used the left shoulder to pass the vehicle . . .

Common sense just doesn't register with some people . . .

You very much seem to be one of those people.

That was, admittedly, quite hilarious. But it was due to CtrlAltDel's dry humor, not the actual unsafe habits.

[adwerkema]

I see that a portion of this conversation centers around the middle lane. What should be the purpose of this center lane? (I'm sure there will be a variety of opinions).

For me, I tend to keep to the middle lane if the freeway is 50%+ full. It seems to ease congestion when people are constantly merging onto or exiting the freeway. If the freeway is less than 50% full, I tend to use the right lane, as there is no point in camping out in the middle and forcing faster traffic to go around you.

Overall, I find that the purpose of the middle lane varies depending on traffic density.

[webny99]

Overall, I find that the purpose of the middle lane varies depending on traffic density and exit frequency.

I added a little caveat. But other than that, I agree 100% with this position.