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[sprjus4]

Didn’t want to revive an old thread (the actual Monroe Expressway thread) here… but I drove down the Monroe Expressway (US-74 Bypass) toll road southeast of Charlotte this past weekend… quite a nice road.

And let me just say… it seemed like quite the speed trap for Union County!

I drove it southbound between I-485 and US-601, then northbound an hour or so later, and both times, at least 3-4 county police set up on the top of the ramps, or at the toll plazas (little emergency pull offs), and both directions I passed at least 2 people pulled over. All in all, about 20 miles driven, and passed probably 9-10 police at various places, either pulling someone over or waiting to pull someone over. Set up on a wide open rural freeway with light traffic. I bet they wish it was 55 mph instead of 65 mph. This probably tops anything I’ve seen in notorious places like Emporia or Hopewell, VA. I wonder how it is during peak summer months. Anybody else have experience with this highway?

I have never seen that much concentration of police on one ~10 mile segment of rural freeway until this.

And they still won’t raise the speed limit to 70 mph (it’s posted 65 mph,) yet the much busier and more congested I-485 just north of there is 70 mph, including through an active work zone with narrow lanes and lane shifts. It was definitely tempting to go 75-80 mph here, it’s such a nice roadway, but with that much police concentration I kept it at only 5 over.

[chrisdiaz]

The Monroe Bypass is definitely tempting to speed on, I'm always worried that with the tolls they're able to track how fast you're going (which they can) and then issue you a ticket (which to my knowledge has not been done yet, at least on this particular road).

[BlueRidge]

The Monroe Bypass is definitely tempting to speed on, I'm always worried that with the tolls they're able to track how fast you're going (which they can) and then issue you a ticket (which to my knowledge has not been done yet, at least on this particular road).

I’ve wondered the same on the tolled portion of 540. I know it’s not a practice employed by the state at the moment, but I imagine the logistics would not be hard to figure out. Legal issues are a whole other can of worms, which is likely why it hasn’t yet happened.


iPhone

[cowboy_wilhelm]

Didn’t want to revive an old thread (the actual Monroe Expressway thread) here… but I drove down the Monroe Expressway (US-74 Bypass) toll road southeast of Charlotte this past weekend… quite a nice road.

And let me just say… it seemed like quite the speed trap for Union County!

I drove it southbound between I-485 and US-601, then northbound an hour or so later, and both times, at least 3-4 county police set up on the top of the ramps, or at the toll plazas (little emergency pull offs), and both directions I passed at least 2 people pulled over. All in all, about 20 miles driven, and passed probably 9-10 police at various places, either pulling someone over or waiting to pull someone over. Set up on a wide open rural freeway with light traffic. I bet they wish it was 55 mph instead of 65 mph. This probably tops anything I’ve seen in notorious places like Emporia or Hopewell, VA. I wonder how it is during peak summer months. Anybody else have experience with this highway?

I have never seen that much concentration of police on one ~10 mile segment of rural freeway until this.

And they still won’t raise the speed limit to 70 mph (it’s posted 65 mph,) yet the much busier and more congested I-485 just north of there is 70 mph, including through an active work zone with narrow lanes and lane shifts. It was definitely tempting to go 75-80 mph here, it’s such a nice roadway, but with that much police concentration I kept it at only 5 over.

Definitely a lot of bears along that stretch.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Exhibit C

There's always a trooper on 540 the few times a year I use it. It's now engrained in my brain to keep it under 5 over. There's always a trooper on the I-95 Express Lanes south of D.C. when I use those too. Probably just easier pickins on the toll roads, but the above sounds like it may have been a saturation patrol. Raleigh P.D. will do that about once a year on 440 and it's a free-for-all the other 364 days.

[sprjus4]

^ I’m not sure what the occasion was that particular day, but it was definitely saturation! It’s one thing to see a cop every once in a while driving, as someone who does a number of long distance trips throughout the year, it’s normal, but to see that amount of police on a short stretch, in a short time frame, was something like I’ve never seen, and so much so I felt the need to post about it. And from when I drove it this weekend, it was all county police, not state highway patrol.

[plain]

If they didn't have those gantries to hide behind then they would probably be on the embankments 

[ARMOURERERIC]

NC Dot has been doing about a week of heavy survey work at exit 118 of I40, not seeing anything on the Stip any time soon.

[1995hoo]

The Monroe Bypass is definitely tempting to speed on, I'm always worried that with the tolls they're able to track how fast you're going (which they can) and then issue you a ticket (which to my knowledge has not been done yet, at least on this particular road).

I’ve wondered the same on the tolled portion of 540. I know it’s not a practice employed by the state at the moment, but I imagine the logistics would not be hard to figure out. Legal issues are a whole other can of worms, which is likely why it hasn’t yet happened.

It wouldn't be difficult at all because they know what the distance is between toll gantries, so they know what the minimum amount of time it should take would be if you were driving exactly on the speed limit. Then all they have to do is compare that time to how long it took your transponder to pass each gantry. Too short a time could equal a ticket if they chose to do this. Toll-by-plate users presumably wouldn't be exempt; the UK already uses a system called "average speed check" in motorway work zones, whereby there are multiple cameras that read your license plate and then calculate how long it took you to drive between them. They use that system to combat the obvious habit many drivers have (I admit I'm one of them, at least on certain roads) of slowing down to pass a known speed camera location and then speeding back up afterwards.

There's no real reason why it wouldn't be legal to do that. The bigger issue is the extent to which it would discourage people from using the toll roads or, for roads that still accept cash (if there are any), from using electronic toll collection systems. In theory, on a ticket-system road that only reads your transponder upon entry and exit (and not all of them are set up that way—Florida's Turnpike, for one, no longer works that way), you could potentially circumvent this sort of thing by stopping at a service area for the necessary amount of time, but that seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth.

[sprjus4]

N.C. appeals court upholds bridge plan for northern Outer Banks

RALEIGH, N.C. — A federal appeals court upheld on Thursday the decision by state and U.S. transportation officials to build a toll bridge connecting North Carolina’s mainland and the northern Outer Banks.

A three-judge panel of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia, agreed with a 2021 trial court ruling that sided with the state Transportation Department, the Federal Highway Administration and agency officials seeking to construct the Mid-Currituck Bridge.

The proposed 7-mile, $500 million project includes a 4.7-mile toll bridge crossing the Currituck Sound between Aydlett and Corolla. Proponents say it would benefit Outer Banks residents and vacationers, particularly during hurricane evacuation. It also would ease traffic at the only other sound crossing — the Wright Memorial Bridge linking Kitty Hawk and Point Harbor.

Citizens’ advocacy and wildlife groups represented by the Southern Environmental Law Center sued in 2019. They argued the agencies didn’t follow the rules in making its decision, specifically with the required environmental analysis.

Writing the unanimous opinion, Circuit Judge Albert Diaz agreed with the decision by U.S. District Judge Louise Flanagan. Diaz wrote the agencies didn’t need to file a supplemental environmental impact statement to the one originally completed in 2012 after project funding delays. Instead, a statement reevaluation by the agencies found no significant issues.

The plaintiffs argued that sea-level rise and lower traffic forecasts for the bridge in part warranted another deep examination. How the agencies examined a “no-build” alternative to constructing the bridge also didn’t violate federal law, Diaz wrote.

The Southern Environmental Law Center diminished Thursday’s ruling, saying the 2012 statement is so outdated that federal regulations require additional scrutiny. The group said the project cost, which it tagged at $602 million, remains unfunded and the project lacks several other permits.

“North Carolina has many unmet transportation needs along its coast, but the Mid-Currituck Bridge is not one of them.” said Kym Meyer, a Southern Environmental Law Center attorney who argued the case before the panel in December. “We will continue to work to ensure that North Carolina money is not wasted on this costly, unwise project.”

The state Transportation Department didn’t immediately provide a comment Thursday on the ruling. A DOT webpage highlighting the project lists the construction start and completion dates as yet to be determined.

The project would be paid for with tolls and other revenue bonds, state matching funds and federal loans, according to the agency.

[architect77]

Does anyone know if I-40 between Durham and Raleigh is going to be improved anytime soon?

For the state's 1st or 2nd busiest highway it's quite crappy with just an old guardrail for a median barrier.

Does the rebuilding of the airport exits portend any improvements to I-40 itself?

[jdunlop]

Does anyone know if I-40 between Durham and Raleigh is going to be improved anytime soon?

For the state's 1st or 2nd busiest highway it's quite crappy with just an old guardrail for a median barrier.

Does the rebuilding of the airport exits portend any improvements to I-40 itself?

A eastbound auxiliary lane between 284 and 285 is basically built, but not opened, as part of the Airport Blvd (284) DDI project.  The Aviation interchange project built the WB aux lane a few years ago.

There's an auxiliary lane project between 285 and 287 (Aviation to Harrison, I believe both directions) that I thought was in the STIP.  (I'm out of NCDOT about a year now and haven't kept up with projects like I did before.) 

I mentioned to the then Division Engineer before COVID when Aviation was being rebuilt (and Airport was just about to start) that those were the projects that should have improved those sections of I-40 to widen the inside two lanes to the proper 12', and install a concrete barrier.  But it was too late.  Hopefully not for the next project.  (If I'm still around and not senile, I'll make a public comment to that effect for the auxiliary lane project.)

The widening of the Wake County section (289-283) was done using maintenance funds by a previous Division Engineer "on the sly", frankly not meeting many regulations/standards, including lane widths and pavement structure.  (I do not believe appropriate environmental studies were done, either.)  I am surprised that FHWA hasn't required that section to be upgraded as they have done for many other interstate sections.

[froggie]

^ Is it possible that they received a design exemption from FHWA for that widening?  I ask that because MnDOT received such for the recent widening of I-35W near and south of downtown Minneapolis.  Those are not standard lane widths or shoulders.

[jdunlop]

^ Is it possible that they received a design exemption from FHWA for that widening?  I ask that because MnDOT received such for the recent widening of I-35W near and south of downtown Minneapolis.  Those are not standard lane widths or shoulders.

I'm not sure FHWA reviewed or approved the project back circa 2000.  (I was not involved in projects then as I was the last 20+ years.)  Most projects with "design exceptions" for interstates that I worked on had them requiring future projects on the books (at least offiicially introduced, if not actually funded) to remedy the exception.  Some minor ones, like shoulder clearance next to bridge piers, have approval until the bridge is replaced, and then is to be "fixed".

[architect77]

Does anyone know if I-40 between Durham and Raleigh is going to be improved anytime soon?

For the state's 1st or 2nd busiest highway it's quite crappy with just an old guardrail for a median barrier.

Does the rebuilding of the airport exits portend any improvements to I-40 itself?

A eastbound auxiliary lane between 284 and 285 is basically built, but not opened, as part of the Airport Blvd (284) DDI project.  The Aviation interchange project built the WB aux lane a few years ago.

There's an auxiliary lane project between 285 and 287 (Aviation to Harrison, I believe both directions) that I thought was in the STIP.  (I'm out of NCDOT about a year now and haven't kept up with projects like I did before.) 

I mentioned to the then Division Engineer before COVID when Aviation was being rebuilt (and Airport was just about to start) that those were the projects that should have improved those sections of I-40 to widen the inside two lanes to the proper 12', and install a concrete barrier.  But it was too late.  Hopefully not for the next project.  (If I'm still around and not senile, I'll make a public comment to that effect for the auxiliary lane project.)

The widening of the Wake County section (289-283) was done using maintenance funds by a previous Division Engineer "on the sly", frankly not meeting many regulations/standards, including lane widths and pavement structure.  (I do not believe appropriate environmental studies were done, either.)  I am surprised that FHWA hasn't required that section to be upgraded as they have done for many other interstate sections.

Thanks. That's an interesting back story to why that stretch of I-40 is so sub-par. I guess the 11' inside lanes were necessary to keep as much distance as possible from the other side seeing as how there's no concrete median barrier.

If there aren't any upoming uopgrades, we should all suggest a better median as a priority to NCDOT.

[CanesFan27]

Bob does the North Carolina Future Interstates year-in-review.  I like to do the NC Rail Year in Review.  A look back at some of the major milestones NCbyTrain reached in 2022 - and a look at some of the regional and local rail expansion projects that are still a number of years away.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/03/nc-by-train-has-record-2022-but-further.html

[fillup420]

Bob does the North Carolina Future Interstates year-in-review.  I like to do the NC Rail Year in Review.  A look back at some of the major milestones NCbyTrain reached in 2022 - and a look at some of the regional and local rail expansion projects that are still a number of years away.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/03/nc-by-train-has-record-2022-but-further.html

Lots of good info there, thanks.

It seems like one of the biggest hurdles for widespread commuter rail is the freight companies. The rails are in place to have passenger service to almost anywhere in the state, but NS and CSX refusing to share right-of-way really screws everything up for everyone. There could be a fast Charlotte-Wilmington service along the former SAL, but CSX would never let that happen. The NS line up the 77 corridor, as mentioned in the article, would be a great commuter rail option. There is hardly any freight traffic on that line, but god forbid NS having to share. (Another good argument for rail nationalization, but i digress).

The only service I could see potentially gaining permission from NS anytime soon is Charlotte-Asheville. The line doesn't have any thru-freight traffic anymore, so there is hardly an argument against it. The line is in good shape and already has a connection to the rest of the system at Salisbury.

[wdcrft63]

Southeast of Greensboro US 421 was diverted onto the Outer Loop (I-85) leaving an orphan segment of ex-421 between I-85 and I-40. This segment was tossed into the secondary system, so it has no visible route number signage. At the north end I-40 Exit 222 is marked “Sanford” but at the ends of the exit ramps there are no signs indicating which way to turn to go to Sanford. At the south end there’s a big sign for the ramp to the Outer Loop but no sign indicating that straight ahead the road goes to Greensboro. That seems like a significant failure of signage.

[sprjus4]

I’m confused - Google Street View shows signs at the bottom of both ramps from I-40 listing the way to “Sanford”, along with it being the control city of the exit.

[Strider]

Southeast of Greensboro US 421 was diverted onto the Outer Loop (I-85) leaving an orphan segment of ex-421 between I-85 and I-40. This segment was tossed into the secondary system, so it has no visible route number signage. At the north end I-40 Exit 222 is marked “Sanford” but at the ends of the exit ramps there are no signs indicating which way to turn to go to Sanford. At the south end there’s a big sign for the ramp to the Outer Loop but no sign indicating that straight ahead the road goes to Greensboro. That seems like a significant failure of signage.

No, because the new signage is coming. The new signage for Exit 222 on I-40 will simply be called "ML King Jr Dr."

As of the US 421 signages with I-85 at the interchange, you basically entered Greensboro at the I-85 interchange (thanks to the annexation of the entire Greensboro Urban Loop by the City of Greensboro), so no reason to sign "To Greensboro, go straight" as most traffic follows US 421 onto I-85.

[sprjus4]

Southeast of Greensboro US 421 was diverted onto the Outer Loop (I-85) leaving an orphan segment of ex-421 between I-85 and I-40. This segment was tossed into the secondary system, so it has no visible route number signage. At the north end I-40 Exit 222 is marked “Sanford” but at the ends of the exit ramps there are no signs indicating which way to turn to go to Sanford. At the south end there’s a big sign for the ramp to the Outer Loop but no sign indicating that straight ahead the road goes to Greensboro. That seems like a significant failure of signage.

No, because the new signage is coming. The new signage for Exit 222 on I-40 will simply be called "ML King Jr Dr."

As of the US 421 signages with I-85 at the interchange, you basically entered Greensboro at the I-85 interchange (thanks to the annexation of the entire Greensboro Urban Loop by the City of Greensboro), so no reason to sign "To Greensboro, go straight" as most traffic follows US 421 onto I-85.

Why not though? Traffic following US-421 north going to downtown Greensboro is going to continue straight onto the old alignment, not exit onto I-85 heading due west.

[MBHockey13]

Southeast of Greensboro US 421 was diverted onto the Outer Loop (I-85) leaving an orphan segment of ex-421 between I-85 and I-40. This segment was tossed into the secondary system, so it has no visible route number signage. At the north end I-40 Exit 222 is marked “Sanford” but at the ends of the exit ramps there are no signs indicating which way to turn to go to Sanford. At the south end there’s a big sign for the ramp to the Outer Loop but no sign indicating that straight ahead the road goes to Greensboro. That seems like a significant failure of signage.

I agree - it made sense to remove the US-421 shields from I-40 to that exit I guess but I would have preferred they had just added a "TO" shield next to the US-421 shield if they are still going to use Sanford at that exit.

[BlueRidge]

In a similar vein, northbound 85 is only signed for an Exit 126, which is actually 126A/B. 85N is signed as only “Exit 126 US 421 Sanford.” Once on the exit ramp, signage is shown as - “126A US 421 South Sanford” and “126B Greensboro.” B was obviously once US 421 North. Strangely enough, southbound 85 is signed for both 126A and B.

Probably meaningless, but I’ve always found it interesting.

[wdcrft63]

I’m confused - Google Street View shows signs at the bottom of both ramps from I-40 listing the way to “Sanford”, along with it being the control city of the exit.

I stand corrected on this, mostly at least. There are no signs at the MLK Street intersections, but there are directional signs on the ramps approaching the intersections.

Here's the signage on 421 NB at I-85: https://goo.gl/maps/xfgdPpzfpqV8PAYz8. Straight ahead is the way to go to downtown Greensboro and also to NC A&T University. Those destinations need a sign.

[wdcrft63]

On a very different subject, the federal appeals court upholds the environmental approval for the Currituck Sound toll bridge project:
https://coastalreview.org/2023/03/federal-appeals-court-affirms-mid-currituck-bridge-decision/

[The Ghostbuster]

Could you mark on Google Maps (or some other map app) the general vicinity of where this Currituck Sound toll bridge is proposed to be located? Thanks.