Unique, Odd, or Interesting Signs aka The good, the bad, and the ugly

[ethanhopkin14]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I learned recently in a safety presentation, the reason for non 5 based speed limits is so that it sticks out in the minds of vehicle operators.  The thinking is if it is an oddball speed, the more likely the speed will be remembered and followed by the operator.   This one seems a bit silly, but that is the reason for 18, 22, 38 mph speed limits.  The road on the site is designed for that speed on purpose, and they post it exactly thinking its will more likely be followed. 

[JoePCool14]

...and they post it exactly thinking its will more likely be followed. 

Signs have wills now?

[ethanhopkin14]

...and they post it exactly thinking its will more likely be followed. 

Signs have wills now?

Sure

[STLmapboy]

...and they post it exactly thinking its will more likely be followed. 

Signs have wills now?

Sure

Persignification.

[formulanone]

Interesting way to denote Water Street in Elmira, New York; at the NY 352 exit off I-86/NY 17:

[jakeroot]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I forgot to mention that this sign was on private property. So any sort of regular thought process likely went out the window (since there's really no consequences). Something tells me that they are just having fun, or that the company which runs the logistics facility requires vehicles in their property to stick to 11.5 MPH so that's why it's on the sign. Still....why the F is that the limit?

[hotdogPi]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I forgot to mention that this sign was on private property. So any sort of regular thought process likely went out the window (since there's really no consequences). Something tells me that they are just having fun, or that the company which runs the logistics facility requires vehicles in their property to stick to 11.5 MPH so that's why it's on the sign. Still....why the F is that the limit?

1s are thinner than other digits.

[jakeroot]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I forgot to mention that this sign was on private property. So any sort of regular thought process likely went out the window (since there's really no consequences). Something tells me that they are just having fun, or that the company which runs the logistics facility requires vehicles in their property to stick to 11.5 MPH so that's why it's on the sign. Still....why the F is that the limit?

1s are thinner than other digits.

Are you thinking instead of 11.5, it used to say 25 or something? Not sure I follow.

[hotdogPi]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I forgot to mention that this sign was on private property. So any sort of regular thought process likely went out the window (since there's really no consequences). Something tells me that they are just having fun, or that the company which runs the logistics facility requires vehicles in their property to stick to 11.5 MPH so that's why it's on the sign. Still....why the F is that the limit?

1s are thinner than other digits.

Are you thinking instead of 11.5, it used to say 25 or something? Not sure I follow.

I think they wanted a non-integer to draw attention, but they had to choose 11.5 or else it wouldn't fit.

[jakeroot]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I forgot to mention that this sign was on private property. So any sort of regular thought process likely went out the window (since there's really no consequences). Something tells me that they are just having fun, or that the company which runs the logistics facility requires vehicles in their property to stick to 11.5 MPH so that's why it's on the sign. Still....why the F is that the limit?

1s are thinner than other digits.

Are you thinking instead of 11.5, it used to say 25 or something? Not sure I follow.

I think they wanted a non-integer to draw attention, but they had to choose 11.5 or else it wouldn't fit.

They could have picked something else like 8.5 or 2.5 if they wanted something really weird. It's not like 11.5 is going to be observed.

[Scott5114]

Brand new speed limit sign; Tacoma, WA.

Spotted this approaching the car park/truck loading zone of a new logistics facility.

For the record: Revised Code of Washington (RCW) 46.61.415 does not permit limits below 20mph, so this sign is worthless anyways.

Totally silly speed limit.  Usually a non-round MPH speed limit means a rounded speed limit in km/h, but in this case 11.5 MPH ~ 18.5 km/h, so 

I learned recently in a safety presentation, the reason for non 5 based speed limits is so that it sticks out in the minds of vehicle operators.  The thinking is if it is an oddball speed, the more likely the speed will be remembered and followed by the operator.   This one seems a bit silly, but that is the reason for 18, 22, 38 mph speed limits.  The road on the site is designed for that speed on purpose, and they post it exactly thinking its will more likely be followed. 

Standard:
The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

[jakeroot]

Standard:
The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

I believe his point was not to explain the numerous examples of non-5 MPH increment speed limits (of which there really aren't that many), but rather give credence to why they pop up at all. Clearly they are not permitted and never have been, but private property owners get to do what they want. The explanation being: weird numbers stick out.

[ErmineNotyours]

There was a model of "bicycle computer" that had multiple sensors on a hub rather than just one magnet on a spoke, and was thus surveying enough data to display tenths of a mile per hour.  That's the only digital speedometer that I've ever seen that displays less than whole numbers.

[jakeroot]

There was a model of "bicycle computer" that had multiple sensors on a hub rather than just one magnet on a spoke, and was thus surveying enough data to display tenths of a mile per hour.  That's the only digital speedometer that I've ever seen that displays less than whole numbers.

The nav app I use when cycling, OsmAnd, shows my speed in tenths of a mile per hour, as does my Samsung Health app (which actually records my rides with a heart rate sensor).

[Scott5114]

Standard:
The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

I believe his point was not to explain the numerous examples of non-5 MPH increment speed limits (of which there really aren't that many), but rather give credence to why they pop up at all. Clearly they are not permitted and never have been, but private property owners get to do what they want. The explanation being: weird numbers stick out.

Well, yeah, that's the explanation. To which the next question is, if odd numbers are more likely to be obeyed, why aren't they used more? Because the manual forbids them, which kind of implies that the concept is flawed to begin with, because if they were so effective, the manual would encourage them.

[jakeroot]

Standard:
The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

I believe his point was not to explain the numerous examples of non-5 MPH increment speed limits (of which there really aren't that many), but rather give credence to why they pop up at all. Clearly they are not permitted and never have been, but private property owners get to do what they want. The explanation being: weird numbers stick out.

Well, yeah, that's the explanation. To which the next question is, if odd numbers are more likely to be obeyed, why aren't they used more? Because the manual forbids them, which kind of implies that the concept is flawed to begin with, because if they were so effective, the manual would encourage them.

Are you implying that speed limits are generally unknown by the public? Because whether the limit is 11.5 or 30, I think people speed because they just don't give a shit.

[J N Winkler]

I don't have the cite, but I distantly remember that the effect of oddball speed limit postings on traffic speeds has been systematically studied (probably in the 1960's) and been found not to have any statistically significant effect on the distribution of speeds.

[hotdogPi]

It's easier to remember a number if I know it's a multiple of 5. If I partially forget (such as between two choices), it's easier to know if there are fewer choices to choose from. On the other hand, "was it 31, 33, 35, 37, or 39? All I can remember is that it was an odd number in the 30s" might be an issue if we used all positive integers.

[Scott5114]

Standard:
The Speed Limit (R2-1) sign (see Figure 2B-3) shall display the limit established by law, ordinance, regulation, or as adopted by the authorized agency based on the engineering study. The speed limits displayed shall be in multiples of 5 mph.

I believe his point was not to explain the numerous examples of non-5 MPH increment speed limits (of which there really aren't that many), but rather give credence to why they pop up at all. Clearly they are not permitted and never have been, but private property owners get to do what they want. The explanation being: weird numbers stick out.

Well, yeah, that's the explanation. To which the next question is, if odd numbers are more likely to be obeyed, why aren't they used more? Because the manual forbids them, which kind of implies that the concept is flawed to begin with, because if they were so effective, the manual would encourage them.

Are you implying that speed limits are generally unknown by the public? Because whether the limit is 11.5 or 30, I think people speed because they just don't give a shit.

No...? My observation is simply that if non-round speed limits had any sort of actual, data-based efficacy, rather than anecdotal or "hmm, makes sense to me! common sense!" justifications, then the MUTCD would be silent on or encourage them. That it instead bans them implies that the given justification for them is flawed and NCUTCD is in possession of data to justify their position. If J.N. Winkler's memory is correct, that would seem to confirm that.

I agree that causes of speeding usually have little to do with speed limit signage. Instead, they are often based on roadway design–people go the speed that the environment cues them to go at. If you build an Interstate-grade freeway and sign it at 33⅓ MPH, compliance rates are going to be in the toilet, not because you signed it with a zany number, but because you signed it at anything under 60.

[jakeroot]

My observation is simply that if non-round speed limits had any sort of actual, data-based efficacy, rather than anecdotal or "hmm, makes sense to me! common sense!" justifications, then the MUTCD would be silent on or encourage them. That it instead bans them implies that the given justification for them is flawed and NCUTCD is in possession of data to justify their position. If J.N. Winkler's memory is correct, that would seem to confirm that.

I agree that causes of speeding usually have little to do with speed limit signage. Instead, they are often based on roadway design–people go the speed that the environment cues them to go at. If you build an Interstate-grade freeway and sign it at 33⅓ MPH, compliance rates are going to be in the toilet, not because you signed it with a zany number, but because you signed it at anything under 60.

No no, I agree with your point. Oddball limits are ridiculous, and impossible to remember (as 1 alludes to above). If they're not effective in getting traffic to observe them, as JN Winkler seems to indicate was the case in early studies, there's really no point in allowing them. They'd probably be abused anyways.

The best reason for increments of 5, in my opinion, is simply that speedometers rarely ever show increments of 1. Asking drivers to go 33 mph when there is no mark for 33 on most speedometers is simply unfair. Most new cars finally have electronic speed readouts, and even those that don't often show a digital speedometer when the cruise is set, allowing you to set very specific speeds.

Another question (probably for JN Winkler): why did the UK decide to adopt 10-mph increments instead of 5? We must seem odd to British people, with our 5-mph speed limit increments (even if other Commonwealth countries, prior to metric conversion, also used increments of 5).

[STLmapboy]

Check out this sign by an abandoned set of mast arms near the old IND Airport terminal. It's the oldest sign I've seen in the Indy area.

[Scott5114]

Another question (probably for JN Winkler): why did the UK decide to adopt 10-mph increments instead of 5? We must seem odd to British people, with our 5-mph speed limit increments (even if other Commonwealth countries, prior to metric conversion, also used increments of 5).

A companion question: why is that you also tend to see more x5 speed limits in the US than x0 ones? Speed limits in neighborhoods are usually 25, not 20 or 30 (when do you ever see 30, really?), arterials are often 35 or 45 (but you see 40 a lot too), and then rural roads and freeways are often 55 or 65. You see 70 a lot, but 75 is starting to take over in a lot of states, although 80 is replacing 75 in some places.

Perhaps it has something to do with the old 55 NMSL, and traffic engineers setting their speed limits as round offsets from that?

[frankenroad]

A companion question: why is that you also tend to see more x5 speed limits in the US than x0 ones? Speed limits in neighborhoods are usually 25, not 20 or 30 (when do you ever see 30, really?), arterials are often 35 or 45 (but you see 40 a lot too), and then rural roads and freeways are often 55 or 65. You see 70 a lot, but 75 is starting to take over in a lot of states, although 80 is replacing 75 in some places.

Perhaps it has something to do with the old 55 NMSL, and traffic engineers setting their speed limits as round offsets from that?

This varies from state to state.  Ohio tends to have mostly x5 speed limits, but when I moved to Maryland, I was actually surprised to see a lot of 30 and 40 MPH signs, which seemed unusual to me at the time.   

[renegade]

Another question (probably for JN Winkler): why did the UK decide to adopt 10-mph increments instead of 5? We must seem odd to British people, with our 5-mph speed limit increments (even if other Commonwealth countries, prior to metric conversion, also used increments of 5).

A companion question: why is that you also tend to see more x5 speed limits in the US than x0 ones? Speed limits in neighborhoods are usually 25, not 20 or 30 (when do you ever see 30, really?), arterials are often 35 or 45 (but you see 40 a lot too), and then rural roads and freeways are often 55 or 65. You see 70 a lot, but 75 is starting to take over in a lot of states, although 80 is replacing 75 in some places.

Perhaps it has something to do with the old 55 NMSL, and traffic engineers setting their speed limits as round offsets from that?

There are lots of 30, 40 and 50 mph speed limits in my area.

[thefraze_1020]

Check out this sign by an abandoned set of mast arms near the old IND Airport terminal. It's the oldest sign I've seen in the Indy area.

Throw that in the "best of road signs" thread. I think it qualifies.