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Author Topic: Interstate 269  (Read 354114 times)

I-55

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #925 on: August 12, 2021, 01:09:38 PM »

OT, man a Buc'ees would look good in all that undeveloped area in NW Mississippi between IH 55 and IH 22. Those gas stations bring plenty of jobs...

If a Buc'ees goes in anywhere it'd be on I-40 in AR. Much more traffic there than I-55, 22 or 269. Now if 269 crossed the river and ended at I-40, that'd be a good location.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #926 on: August 12, 2021, 02:21:56 PM »

One of those in the West Memphis, Forrest City area, I would have no problem with, That is one of the more depressed areas in the south, IMO
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CoreySamson

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #927 on: August 13, 2021, 09:17:35 PM »

I think West Memphis would be the best spot (it looks like there's tons of space for development near the Southland Casino, that would be a good spot, heck, there's even frontage roads like in Texas right there), as it would catch both I-40 and I-55 traffic. Putting it further west I think kinda goes against Buc-ee's mission as a lot of that I-40 traffic is trucks, which Buc-ee's does not allow. That being said, one could totally work at the I-40/AR-1 interchange outside Forrest City.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #928 on: August 14, 2021, 05:39:12 PM »

That is a damn good idea! I forgot about the casino over there. That stretch of IH 40/55 has been run down for 4+ decades. That area needs improvement in the worse way!
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #929 on: December 21, 2021, 10:31:28 AM »

Just heard that a Whataburger will be opening next summer in Southaven, off Goodman Road and Getwell! Can't wait for this! Hopefully a Bucee's is Built off of 269 in the upcoming years. Those facilities bring lots of jobs to the local area, IMO.
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Marc

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #930 on: December 21, 2021, 12:19:24 PM »

I think West Memphis would be the best spot.
Lots of crime in West Memphis though. I wouldn't be stopping there, even if there was a Buc-ee's.
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MikieTimT

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #931 on: December 23, 2021, 11:53:59 PM »

I think West Memphis would be the best spot.
Lots of crime in West Memphis though. I wouldn't be stopping there, even if there was a Buc-ee's.

Memphis will eventually get a 3rd bridge south of the I-55 bridge for an outer bypass.  Wherever that ties back into I-40 west of/at Lehi is where something like that would likely come to pass.  Everyone's just holding their breath to see where they'll eventually build the 3rd bridge.  Memphis just cannot be ignored in perpetuity, although I certainly avoid it like the plague.  Took I-530/US-65 to Lake Village and popped over to US-61 down to Jackson to avoid Memphis going down to the Pascagoula area to visit my snowbirding folks for an early Christmas, and came back I-10/I-12/US-190/I-49/US-71/I-49 to keep from driving back with the sun in my eyes.  Couple of good 100+ mile middle stretches both ways to get my 14 year old son some practice behind the wheel now that he's 14 and has his instruction permit after just passing his written test this past week.
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CoolAngrybirdsrio4

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #932 on: December 25, 2021, 01:01:56 AM »

I think West Memphis would be the best spot.
Lots of crime in West Memphis though. I wouldn't be stopping there, even if there was a Buc-ee's.

Memphis will eventually get a 3rd bridge south of the I-55 bridge for an outer bypass.  Wherever that ties back into I-40 west of/at Lehi is where something like that would likely come to pass.  Everyone's just holding their breath to see where they'll eventually build the 3rd bridge.  Memphis just cannot be ignored in perpetuity, although I certainly avoid it like the plague.  Took I-530/US-65 to Lake Village and popped over to US-61 down to Jackson to avoid Memphis going down to the Pascagoula area to visit my snowbirding folks for an early Christmas, and came back I-10/I-12/US-190/I-49/US-71/I-49 to keep from driving back with the sun in my eyes.  Couple of good 100+ mile middle stretches both ways to get my 14 year old son some practice behind the wheel now that he's 14 and has his instruction permit after just passing his written test this past week.

Only if I-269 (currently TN 385) will get extended from I-69 to I-55 eventually
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codyg1985

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #933 on: December 27, 2021, 01:16:07 PM »

I think West Memphis would be the best spot.
Lots of crime in West Memphis though. I wouldn't be stopping there, even if there was a Buc-ee's.

Memphis will eventually get a 3rd bridge south of the I-55 bridge for an outer bypass.  Wherever that ties back into I-40 west of/at Lehi is where something like that would likely come to pass.  Everyone's just holding their breath to see where they'll eventually build the 3rd bridge.  Memphis just cannot be ignored in perpetuity, although I certainly avoid it like the plague.

I don't see it happening unless a major infusion of federal cash comes in, and MS and AR (and/or TN) work together to make it happen. Planning isn't anywhere near far enough to qualify for funding from the infrastructure bill.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #934 on: January 22, 2023, 07:47:37 PM »

Drove to 269 a week ago. For the Love... Can we get a Truck stop on 269 between IH 22 and IH 55??? A Bucees would go good there because it would bring jobs. I'm guessing that there already has been local opposition to any kind of truck stop along that corridor? The Bucees outside of Birmingham is booming. I was hoping that the government in NW Mississippi would take notes..
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #935 on: January 22, 2023, 09:42:58 PM »

Buc-ee's appears to be very picky at choosing locations for their super-sized convenience stores. With that being said they do have a decent number of future stores in the works or under construction.

A lawsuit was finally settled over some land on the East side of Amarillo near the I-40/US-287 split. Buc-ee's may break ground on that location sometime in March. Construction is underway for the first Buc-ee's location in Colorado, off I-25 Exit 252 (CR-48/CO-60). Buc-ee's also broke ground on its first Missouri location, off I-44 in Springfield. Sevierville, TN will be home to the largest Buc-ee's location when that 74,000 square foot store opens later this year. But Buc-ee's has a slightly larger one in the works to replace an existing location in Luling, TX.

I don't think I-269 has enough development yet along or near its loop to attract a Buc-ee's location. Perhaps if there were more casino/resorts in Tunica AND if I-269 (or I-22) was extended across the Mississippi River then that area along I-269 between I-55 and I-22 would be more attractive. For the time being if a Buc-ee's gets built in the Memphis region it would likely be built next to I-40 either East or West of the city.

I wonder if Buc-ee's management is deliberately overlooking some really obvious potential locations due to some sort of axe to grind. There appear to be no plans at all for Buc-ee's to build in Oklahoma. That's despite OKC being a major hub city for the Interstate highway system.
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rte66man

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #936 on: February 04, 2023, 03:21:18 PM »

Buc-ee's appears to be very picky at choosing locations for their super-sized convenience stores. With that being said they do have a decent number of future stores in the works or under construction.

I wonder if Buc-ee's management is deliberately overlooking some really obvious potential locations due to some sort of axe to grind. There appear to be no plans at all for Buc-ee's to build in Oklahoma. That's despite OKC being a major hub city for the Interstate highway system.

I'm beginning to suspect the same thing. A Buc-ees on 35 by Riverwind would kill it.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #937 on: February 04, 2023, 09:35:51 PM »

Oh yeah. A Buc-ee's location on a corner of I-35 and OK-9 near Riverwind Casino would do really well. It might even tip the scales enough to get ODOT to convert that 4-lane segment of OK-9 between the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension and I-35 into a proper freeway. The trick is getting the property needed. There is a big tract of farm land next door to Riverwind. For all I know it could be trust land. Tribes don't like selling land to other commercial developers.

A Buc-ee's next to I-40 on the West side of Yukon would do big business. There's a couple spots along I-35 near Frontier City that would be great too.

Buc-ee's is leaving money on the table by not expanding into Oklahoma. I've said the same thing about In-N-Out Burger -which still appears to have zero plans on expanding into Oklahoma, even though its Fort Worth distribution center can cover much of the Sooner State. In-N-Out is expanding into Colorado and now there's word they'll build a new "Eastern Territory Office" in Franklin, TN to seed new locations in Tennessee later this decade.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #938 on: February 04, 2023, 10:09:33 PM »

Yes, In and Out is confirmed to have a HQ office in Franklin in 2024. Hopefully they will be opening locations in Tennessee starting in 2025. If I can't have a Buc'ees along 269, I will settle for a In and Out.
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bwana39

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #939 on: February 05, 2023, 12:35:03 AM »

On the Buc-ees issue, it boils down to what kind of tax abatements and infrastructure upgrades the local community will give them .

If they won't play, Buc-ees aren't going to build.

There are two issues the community has to consider. First if the sales taxes generated will offset the property tax abatement. Secondly if there is an alternate development for the location that might generate the same or higher overall income from all the tax sources combined.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #940 on: February 05, 2023, 12:37:22 PM »

Quote from: bwana39
On the Buc-ees issue, it boils down to what kind of tax abatements and infrastructure upgrades the local community will give them.

Various cities in Oklahoma do those kinds of deals all the time with other developers.

Much of downtown Lawton has been turned into a TIF district in an attempt to get more development to take place downtown. The effort hasn't been able to gain very much traction due to other problems like outdated overlay district rules; the city is finally starting to try to pull its head out of its ass on that point. Their efforts at "downtown redevelopment" need a lot more focus rather than a half-assed approach.

Buc-ee's could probably get some sweetheart deal on taxes and other issue with any number of location spots in Oklahoma. I think some other issue is present. There is the whole Texas vs Oklahoma thing, mainly with college sports. But I wouldn't put it past some business people carrying that rivalry to where they decide to build new locations. Buc-ee's founder, Arch Aplin III is from Texas and attended Texas A&M. He could have a never-in-Oklahoma mantra for Buc-ee's.
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bwana39

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #941 on: February 05, 2023, 11:57:35 PM »

Valero's Corner Stores quote=bwana39]On the Buc-ees issue, it boils down to what kind of tax abatements and infrastructure upgrades the local community will give them.

Various cities in Oklahoma do those kinds of deals all the time with other developers.

Much of downtown Lawton has been turned into a TIF district in an attempt to get more development to take place downtown. The effort hasn't been able to gain very much traction due to other problems like outdated overlay district rules; the city is finally starting to try to pull its head out of its ass on that point. Their efforts at "downtown redevelopment" need a lot more focus rather than a half-assed approach.

Buc-ee's could probably get some sweetheart deal on taxes and other issue with any number of location spots in Oklahoma. I think some other issue is present. There is the whole Texas vs Oklahoma thing, mainly with college sports. But I wouldn't put it past some business people carrying that rivalry to where they decide to build new locations. Buc-ee's founder, Arch Aplin III is from Texas and attended Texas A&M. He could have a never-in-Oklahoma mantra for Buc-ee's.

Texas based chains seem to avoid Oklahoma period. Brookshire's had ample opportunity within the common range of its Tyler based service area and did not. When Bealls was based in Jacksonville it never expanded that direction. (And did not at all until Stage Stores merged with Oklahoma Based  CR Anthony & company in 1997.) Valero Corner Stores did not do Oklahoma. Even EZ Mart eventually sold their Oklahoma stores to Circle K.

Texas companies pretty much avoid Oklahoma.  Buc-ees may have the same reason(s) for avoiding it as well.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 04:04:04 PM by bwana39 »
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #942 on: February 06, 2023, 10:29:22 PM »

Lots of Texas-based companies (including restaurant chains) have locations in Oklahoma. Whataburger is a popular Texas-based chain that comes to mind. They're based in San Antonio, yet they have 35 stores in Oklahoma. Some of my friends and relatives prefer Whataburger to In-N-Out. They recently re-entered the Colorado market. Whataburger's drive thru service is painfully slow though. That's one area where In-N-Out absolutely kills it.

I've heard rumors that one or more Oklahoma-based convenience store chains (such as OnCue) have some sort of deal with Buc-ee's to not build any locations in Oklahoma. I think the idea is kind of ridiculous, but it goes right along with other rumors of in-state deals between rival convenience store chains to not build in each other's back yard. There's no OnCue locations in or near Lawton; maybe they made a deal with EZ-GO. Most of EZ-GO's regular neighborhood stores are in Lawton. They operate several turnpike locations across Oklahoma and a few in Kansas.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 02:20:24 PM by Bobby5280 »
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westerninterloper

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #943 on: February 06, 2023, 10:36:03 PM »

Valero's Corner Stores quote=bwana39]On the Buc-ees issue, it boils down to what kind of tax abatements and infrastructure upgrades the local community will give them.

Various cities in Oklahoma do those kinds of deals all the time with other developers.

Much of downtown Lawton has been turned into a TIF district in an attempt to get more development to take place downtown. The effort hasn't been able to gain very much traction due to other problems like outdated overlay district rules; the city is finally starting to try to pull its head out of its ass on that point. Their efforts at "downtown redevelopment" need a lot more focus rather than a half-assed approach.

Buc-ee's could probably get some sweetheart deal on taxes and other issue with any number of location spots in Oklahoma. I think some other issue is present. There is the whole Texas vs Oklahoma thing, mainly with college sports. But I wouldn't put it past some business people carrying that rivalry to where they decide to build new locations. Buc-ee's founder, Arch Aplin III is from Texas and attended Texas A&M. He could have a never-in-Oklahoma mantra for Buc-ee's.

Texas based chains seem to avoid Oklahoma period. Brookshire's had ample opportunity within the common range of its Tyler based service area and did not. When Bealls was based in Jacksonville it never expanded that direction. (And did not at all until Stage Stores merged with Oklahoma Based  CR Anthony & company in 1997.) Valero Corner Stores did not do Oklahoma. Even EZ Mart eventually sold their Oklahoma stores to Circle K.

Texas companies pretty much avoid Oklahoma.  Buc-ees may have the same reason(s) for avoiding it as well.
[/quote] 

College sports rivalries won't stop anyone from making a business deal. If you think about it, the states that have some of the most heated rivalries - TX and OK; OH and MI, have very very closely connected economies. The rivalries are hot because the people work together all the time.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #944 on: February 07, 2023, 02:06:46 PM »

Whataburger's drive thru service is painfully slow though.

You haven't lived until you fell asleep in your car in a Wataburger drive through at 1:00 AM!
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triplemultiplex

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #945 on: February 07, 2023, 04:01:05 PM »

Much of downtown Lawton has been turned into a TIF district in an attempt to get more development to take place downtown. The effort hasn't been able to gain very much traction due to other problems like outdated overlay district rules; the city is finally starting to try to pull its head out of its ass on that point. Their efforts at "downtown redevelopment" need a lot more focus rather than a half-assed approach.

In retrospect, Lawton really fumbled when they hollowed out their downtown to build a suburban shopping mall.  It's so out of place.  They didn't even try and put the mall in one corner of the superblock so at least part of it would still feel integrated with the rest of the city.  Instead, it's like an island surrounded by a moat, as if they were trying to make a more defensible position in case of a zombie attack.  Clear shots in all directions across the parking moat.

Downtown malls in mid-sized and small cities were a good attempt to have your cake and eat it to.  Bring folks into downtown, but still give them the mall rat experience they love.  It's all about the execution, though.  The nearest mall to me growing up was a downtown mall and they did an okay job.  They used parking ramps to reduce the footprint and had a street-facing side of the mall.  It was nice that at least one entrance didn't face an ocean of parking. 

Lawton, though; good lord.  Let's level 12 square blocks for a new shopping mall and see if that works!
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #946 on: February 07, 2023, 11:05:28 PM »

In retrospect it's easy to see why Lawton's town leaders chose to build Central Mall where they did and when they did.

Back in the early 1970's downtown Lawton was very much NOT a family friendly place. Some older guys I know who hit drinking age during that time thought Lawton's downtown was the greatest place ever. There were all kinds of bars, night clubs, venues with live music, etc. But there was also a lot of open prostitution, drug dealing, theaters playing porn and lots of violence. In 1973 Lawton hit a new record for homicides (18 that year, which was a lot for an Army town with considerably less than 100,000 people).

The very first indoor shopping malls were built in the 1950's, but the template for indoor shopping mall design wasn't perfected until the 1970's. Northeast Mall in the Fort Worth suburb of Hurst opened in 1971. That was one of the inspirations for Central Mall in Lawton. City leaders figured they could bulldoze the 12 most seedy blocks in downtown Lawton and replace it with a modern, family-friendly indoor shopping center.

In retrospect the ploy didn't work. They tried applying a cosmetic solution to a people problem. The crime and various seedy enterprises simply relocated to other parts of town.

I moved to Lawton in the 1990's and back then there was a lot of topless bars and massage parlors scattered around different parts of town. The old downtown area was stone dead after dark (and still is). They've changed city codes enough that there's no more rub-and-tug style massage parlors or titty bars left in town. We're down to one remaining topless bar outside of city limits, West of town. Lots of other regular bars and night clubs have closed. I think a lot of younger adults are just not meeting up in person like they did in the past. They're connecting more thru their phones, gaming consoles and computers. It's probably one big reason why birth rates are plummeting. People are far more fickle when they're looking at online photos and swiping left or right.

Normally an indoor mall would be built near a major intersection next to an Interstate highway. They didn't do that with Central Mall here. They just plopped it in the middle of downtown with no fast way to get there. There's so many layers of stop signs and stop lights in every direction. Even back in the 1970's more business in Lawton was gravitating to locations along Cache Road, well away from the downtown area. People with money were building new homes farther East and West of downtown. The H.E. Bailey Turnpike wasn't designated as I-44 until around 1983 (I remember seeing "Future I-44" signs in 1982). A lot of I-44 running through Lawton is bracketed by military property or tribe-owned trust land.

City leaders have been trying to reverse the out-flow cycle with downtown redevelopment efforts. But their attempts have no focus. There's no project to tie it all together. Pueblo is arguably just as trashy a city as Lawton. But at least they had a better idea for improving their downtown zone. A river walk is not a new idea. However it kind of brings everything together. Lawton also got hurt by certain movers and shakers going down rabbit holes, pursuing ideas that had no chance of happening -such as building a 20,000 seat arena downtown to get a minor league basketball team. I guess these guys didn't see how much the Ford Center in OKC cost to get built in Bricktown over 20 years ago. Obviously that pursuit went nowhere. Lawton is just suffering from the lack of good, visionary yet realistic leadership.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2023, 11:12:11 PM by Bobby5280 »
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