Interstate 15 north of Barstow to the State Line

[michravera]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

Would you be willing to map this out for a non-local to see which roads?

This appears to be the route–and assuming it's a Vegas to SoCal trip, it would include a backtrack on I-40 to Barstow and I-15.

It seems like this might not be as beneficial now as it probably was before the I-15 CA agriculture inspection station moved north of the Nipton Road exit. But I admittedly haven't ever been in any of that heavy southbound weekend/holiday traffic snarl to know whether this detour might be worth it between the ag station and Barstow.

They try to do the inspection points at a place just after all routes have converged and people who are just going a short distance into the state and have no intention of staying there can have turned back, but also before the road gets into any agricultural area.

[Alps]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

Would you be willing to map this out for a non-local to see which roads?

This appears to be the route–and assuming it's a Vegas to SoCal trip, it would include a backtrack on I-40 to Barstow and I-15.

It seems like this might not be as beneficial now as it probably was before the I-15 CA agriculture inspection station moved north of the Nipton Road exit. But I admittedly haven't ever been in any of that heavy southbound weekend/holiday traffic snarl to know whether this detour might be worth it between the ag station and Barstow.

I thought that was supposed to be faster from Bakersfield. It's faster from Middle of Nowhere maybe

[skluth]

Supposedly, there was repaving recently. I have not driven through the preserve in the last few years so don't know how bad it is. This is a great route solo but I generally don't like subjecting guests to aggressive two lane road driving.
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/traffic/2016/12/25/mojave-desert-las-vegas/95839918/

What aggressive driving? There's not enough traffic to worry about aggressive two lane road driving; it's more desolate than the old US 66. I've never seen a truck on these roads. I'm not sure if there are still any operational mines in this part of the desert though there is a large commercial salt pan operation south of Amboy. I'd be more worried about lack of cell service if your car breaks down or sand drifting onto the road than the occasional other driver.

[Max Rockatansky]

Supposedly, there was repaving recently. I have not driven through the preserve in the last few years so don't know how bad it is. This is a great route solo but I generally don't like subjecting guests to aggressive two lane road driving.
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/traffic/2016/12/25/mojave-desert-las-vegas/95839918/

What aggressive driving? There's not enough traffic to worry about aggressive two lane road driving; it's more desolate than the old US 66. I've never seen a truck on these roads. I'm not sure if there are still any operational mines in this part of the desert though there is a large commercial salt pan operation south of Amboy. I'd be more worried about lack of cell service if your car breaks down or sand drifting onto the road than the occasional other driver.

I don't recall really any of those roads having posted speed limits which would by default make them 55 MPH.  Kelbaker Road could handle those speeds but you had to watch for big potholes.  The surfacing was actually kind of neat given the aggregate had a distinct red tint.  If everything was repaved I would imagine 65-70 MPH during the daytime wouldn't be unreasonable akin to Old US 66 (signed at 55) and CA 127.

[fungus]

What aggressive driving? There's not enough traffic to worry about aggressive two lane road driving; it's more desolate than the old US 66. I've never seen a truck on these roads. I'm not sure if there are still any operational mines in this part of the desert though there is a large commercial salt pan operation south of Amboy. I'd be more worried about lack of cell service if your car breaks down or sand drifting onto the road than the occasional other driver.

It's either my aggressive driving, or some hot shot in a sports SUV on a Sunday who thinks this is the way to beat traffic.

[Plutonic Panda]

Gotta love Mayor Goodman, never misses a chance to call out California for their lack of investment. I wonder if the governor of Nevada has taken a position on this.

https://twitter.com/mayoroflasvegas/status/1461462286699089927?s=21

[Max Rockatansky]

Gotta love Mayor Goodman, never misses a chance to call out California for their lack of investment. I wonder if the governor of Nevada has taken a position on this.

https://twitter.com/mayoroflasvegas/status/1461462286699089927?s=21

She forgot the California Transportation Commission.  If she's for a party to blame they ought to be on there over Caltrans. 

[ilpt4u]

Gotta love Mayor Goodman, never misses a chance to call out California for their lack of investment. I wonder if the governor of Nevada has taken a position on this.

https://twitter.com/mayoroflasvegas/status/1461462286699089927?s=21

Only in that part of the country would it be worded "...If you do NOT enjoy your long ride back down the I-15..."

Isn't it usually either "long ride back down The 15"  or "long ride back down I-15" ? Back down The Interstate 15 sounds a bit along the lines of The Ohio State University

[roadfro]

Gotta love Mayor Goodman, never misses a chance to call out California for their lack of investment. I wonder if the governor of Nevada has taken a position on this.

https://twitter.com/mayoroflasvegas/status/1461462286699089927?s=21

Only in that part of the country would it be worded "...If you do NOT enjoy your long ride back down the I-15..."

Isn't it usually either "long ride back down The 15"  or "long ride back down I-15" ? Back down The Interstate 15 sounds a bit along the lines of The Ohio State University

The SoCal crowd mostly would call it "the 15". The Vegas crowd varies between "the 15" and "I-15". Clearly Mayor Goodman should've gone with "the 15" for maximum effect, and mixed the two conventions here.

[DenverBrian]

Good thing she wasn't targeting those from Austin, TX,  where it would be "IH-15."

[roadfro]

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. <...>

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Ask and ye shall receive, I guess... In a joint press conference this morning, California Governor Newsom & Nevada Governor Sisolak announced that Caltrans is working on an "immediate relief" project to address the southbound congestion at the state line.

Sisolak, Newsom promise "˜immediate relief' for I-15 traffic at Nevada-California border, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 12/5/2021

<...>
Newsom said they will take the shoulder about five miles south of the border and make it a third lane during peak hours. The project will cost about $12 million, but Newsom says existing money will be used to complete the project. He says it will be done by Summer 2022, but a more permanent solution is still needed.
<...>

If you watch the video included in the article (which starts during Q&A after the actual announcement), the impetus for this was apparently Governor Sisolak making a phone call to Governor Newsom to look into it, and in a subsequent call Sisolak also stating that the first response "wasn't good enough".

A quick measure on Google Maps indicates it's about 5.4 miles from the NV/CA state line to the point where the I-15 SB lanes start to widen out in approach to the agriculture checkpoint–so it looks like I was on to something! Peak period shoulder running isn't as good as a permanent third lane, but it should be a start.

[Max Rockatansky]

Damn, California finally caved.  I didn't expect something like this for years. 

[Techknow]

Oh wow. I was wondering a while ago how many freeways in California have the right shoulder lane usable for peak traffic (I'll make a new topic.) Now there will be a new addition to this. Truly an example of kicking the proverbial can down the road.

[michravera]

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. <...>

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Ask and ye shall receive, I guess... In a joint press conference this morning, California Governor Newsom & Nevada Governor Sisolak announced that Caltrans is working on an "immediate relief" project to address the southbound congestion at the state line.

Sisolak, Newsom promise "˜immediate relief' for I-15 traffic at Nevada-California border, Las Vegas Review-Journal, 12/5/2021

<...>
Newsom said they will take the shoulder about five miles south of the border and make it a third lane during peak hours. The project will cost about $12 million, but Newsom says existing money will be used to complete the project. He says it will be done by Summer 2022, but a more permanent solution is still needed.
<...>

If you watch the video included in the article (which starts during Q&A after the actual announcement), the impetus for this was apparently Governor Sisolak making a phone call to Governor Newsom to look into it, and in a subsequent call Sisolak also stating that the first response "wasn't good enough".

A quick measure on Google Maps indicates it's about 5.4 miles from the NV/CA state line to the point where the I-15 SB lanes start to widen out in approach to the agriculture checkpoint–so it looks like I was on to something! Peak period shoulder running isn't as good as a permanent third lane, but it should be a start.

What? They are using Mich Ravera's solution!?

[Plutonic Panda]

I mean more lanes is always good but really what good will this do with the ridiculous agricultural checkpoint choking up Cali bound traffic?

[roadfro]

I mean more lanes is always good but really what good will this do with the ridiculous agricultural checkpoint choking up Cali bound traffic?

I mean, at bare minimum, it will move 5 miles of the backup into California where it belongs...

I'm curious how bad the backups were at the old agriculture checkpoint. That was much further down the road in California, so it was extremely rare for the backups to reach the state line. Now only 5-6 miles into CA, the backups regularly spill into Nevada...and NDOT has traffic cameras and speed sensors out there, so it's much easier to the Vegas media market to pick up when there are backups and how long they'll be. I don't think Caltrans has nearly as much ITS infrastructure out on that part of I-15... Has this been a longstanding problem before the checkpoint was moved, and the technology wasn't there for people to easily pick up on the problem?

[Mark68]

What are they considering "peak" hours? The end of a holiday weekend? All Sundays?

[stevashe]

What are they considering "peak" hours? The end of a holiday weekend? All Sundays?

It'll probably be controlled dynamically with electronic signs, so basically whenever traffic is heavy.

[SSR_317]

I mean more lanes is always good but really what good will this do with the ridiculous agricultural checkpoint choking up Cali bound traffic?

I mean, at bare minimum, it will move 5 miles of the backup into California where it belongs...

I'm curious how bad the backups were at the old agriculture checkpoint. That was much further down the road in California, so it was extremely rare for the backups to reach the state line. Now only 5-6 miles into CA, the backups regularly spill into Nevada...and NDOT has traffic cameras and speed sensors out there, so it's much easier to the Vegas media market to pick up when there are backups and how long they'll be. I don't think Caltrans has nearly as much ITS infrastructure out on that part of I-15... Has this been a longstanding problem before the checkpoint was moved, and the technology wasn't there for people to easily pick up on the problem?

When was the Ag Inspection Station moved? The last time I was on this stretch of Interstate was early 2002, when I  believe the AIS was still at its original location (the first time was as an 11 year-old passenger with my parents in August 1967, heading home from my uncle's house in Ventura, CA back to Fort Wayne, IN... but that's another story!). On that 2002 trip, the Ag Station appeared to be abandoned (it was a Saturday through), and I barely had to slow down to pass through it.

[cahwyguy]

I mean more lanes is always good but really what good will this do with the ridiculous agricultural checkpoint choking up Cali bound traffic?

I mean, at bare minimum, it will move 5 miles of the backup into California where it belongs...

I'm curious how bad the backups were at the old agriculture checkpoint. That was much further down the road in California, so it was extremely rare for the backups to reach the state line. Now only 5-6 miles into CA, the backups regularly spill into Nevada...and NDOT has traffic cameras and speed sensors out there, so it's much easier to the Vegas media market to pick up when there are backups and how long they'll be. I don't think Caltrans has nearly as much ITS infrastructure out on that part of I-15... Has this been a longstanding problem before the checkpoint was moved, and the technology wasn't there for people to easily pick up on the problem?

When was the Ag Inspection Station moved? The last time I was on this stretch of Interstate was early 2002, when I  believe the AIS was still at its original location (the first time was as an 11 year-old passenger with my parents in August 1967, heading home from my uncle's house in Ventura, CA back to Fort Wayne, IN... but that's another story!). On that 2002 trip, the Ag Station appeared to be abandoned (it was a Saturday through), and I barely had to slow down to pass through it.

The new agricultural inspection station opened in September 2018: See https://www.cahighways.org/ROUTE015.html

[RZF]

It's interesting how there aren't too many signs warning drivers about driving up Halloran Summit. When someone drives up the summit for the first time, they think it's just a gradual incline due to the vast stretch of desert and road that lies before them that also doesn't look too steep. But driving a 4-cylinder car is the toughest thing to do on that stretch of I-15.

[SSR_317]

The new agricultural inspection station opened in September 2018: See https://www.cahighways.org/ROUTE015.html

Thanks!

[GaryA]

It's interesting how there aren't too many signs warning drivers about driving up Halloran Summit. When someone drives up the summit for the first time, they think it's just a gradual incline due to the vast stretch of desert and road that lies before them that also doesn't look too steep. But driving a 4-cylinder car is the toughest thing to do on that stretch of I-15.

Many years ago, there were signs leaving Baker warning drivers to turn off their air conditioners -- and it was not uncommon to see many cars stopped on the side of the road along that uphill grade, presumably just overheated.  But that doesn't seem to be as big of a problem these days, as cars have improved.  Personally, I don't find any of I-15 particularly tough to handle even in a 4-cylinder car.

[Max Rockatansky]

It's interesting how there aren't too many signs warning drivers about driving up Halloran Summit. When someone drives up the summit for the first time, they think it's just a gradual incline due to the vast stretch of desert and road that lies before them that also doesn't look too steep. But driving a 4-cylinder car is the toughest thing to do on that stretch of I-15.

Many years ago, there were signs leaving Baker warning drivers to turn off their air conditioners -- and it was not uncommon to see many cars stopped on the side of the road along that uphill grade, presumably just overheated.  But that doesn't seem to be as big of a problem these days, as cars have improved.  Personally, I don't find any of I-15 particularly tough to handle even in a 4-cylinder car.

Considering that modern four cylinders are as powerful as most V8s 35-50 years ago that shouldn't be a surprise.  I want to say the climb to Halloran Summit is 6% over roughly ten miles.  The incline grade really isn't what gets people it's the long push that does.  Much of this of course is like you said, no big deal for modern cars with modern cooling systems. 

[jdbx]

It's interesting how there aren't too many signs warning drivers about driving up Halloran Summit. When someone drives up the summit for the first time, they think it's just a gradual incline due to the vast stretch of desert and road that lies before them that also doesn't look too steep. But driving a 4-cylinder car is the toughest thing to do on that stretch of I-15.

Many years ago, there were signs leaving Baker warning drivers to turn off their air conditioners -- and it was not uncommon to see many cars stopped on the side of the road along that uphill grade, presumably just overheated.  But that doesn't seem to be as big of a problem these days, as cars have improved.  Personally, I don't find any of I-15 particularly tough to handle even in a 4-cylinder car.

Considering that modern four cylinders are as powerful as most V8s 35-50 years ago that shouldn't be a surprise.  I want to say the climb to Halloran Summit is 6% over roughly ten miles.  The incline grade really isn't what gets people it's the long push that does.  Much of this of course is like you said, no big deal for modern cars with modern cooling systems. 

It's been many years since I traveled the route, but I-10 over Chiriaco Summit had a similar very long drawn-out grade, and one notable thing I remember was radiator water stations along the side of the highway every few miles.  I'm not sure if they are still there, they seemed archaic even during the 90's when I was regularly traveling that route.   Overheated cars were a common sight of my childhood along any prolonged mountain grade.  It seemed like it was mostly air-cooled VW's, however.