The original CA 245

[Max Rockatansky]

The original California State Route 245 was a short lived post-1964 State Route located on Downey Road east of the Los Angeles City Limit.  The original California State Route 245 was aligned along Downey Road from the planned California State Route 60 Pomona Freeway south to Interstate 5 and the Santa Ana Freeway.  The original California State Route 245 was deleted by way of 1965 Legislative Chapter 1372 but remained an active highway until the opening of the Pomona Freeway. 

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/06/the-first-california-state-route-245.html?m=1

[GaryA]

The last map (1967 Caltrans) that you have in this article also seems to show a proposed highway 40 running south from near the East LA interchange.

Any idea whether this was real or a map-o?  It obviously doesn't have any relation to US 40, I-40, or LRN 40.

[Max Rockatansky]

The last map (1967 Caltrans) that you have in this article also seems to show a proposed highway 40 running south from near the East LA interchange.

Any idea whether this was real or a map-o?  It obviously doesn't have any relation to US 40, I-40, or LRN 40.

Got me there, I just assumed it was a map error. 

[Quillz]

You know, I was gonna make a topic about this, but I'll just ask it here. Is the current alignment of Badger Road (the northernmost segment of modern CA-245 between Dunlap Road and CA-180) the only highway in California to have been assigned four different numbers? It started life as old 180, then was renumbered to old 65, then renumbered again to 69, and then finally to 245.

I (assume) sign theft was an issue, but I wish CA-69 wasn't renumbered.

[Max Rockatansky]

You know, I was gonna make a topic about this, but I'll just ask it here. Is the current alignment of Badger Road (the northernmost segment of modern CA-245 between Dunlap Road and CA-180) the only highway in California to have been assigned four different numbers? It started life as old 180, then was renumbered to old 65, then renumbered again to 69, and then finally to 245.

I (assume) sign theft was an issue, but I wish CA-69 wasn't renumbered.

No, a portion of 262 was assigned more than that: 9, 17, US 48, 238 and 680 off the top my head.

[TheStranger]

You know, I was gonna make a topic about this, but I'll just ask it here. Is the current alignment of Badger Road (the northernmost segment of modern CA-245 between Dunlap Road and CA-180) the only highway in California to have been assigned four different numbers? It started life as old 180, then was renumbered to old 65, then renumbered again to 69, and then finally to 245.

I (assume) sign theft was an issue, but I wish CA-69 wasn't renumbered.

No, a portion of 262 was assigned more than that: 9, 17, US 48, 238 and 680 off the top my head.

IIRC wasn't that also at one point US 101E?

[Max Rockatansky]

You know, I was gonna make a topic about this, but I'll just ask it here. Is the current alignment of Badger Road (the northernmost segment of modern CA-245 between Dunlap Road and CA-180) the only highway in California to have been assigned four different numbers? It started life as old 180, then was renumbered to old 65, then renumbered again to 69, and then finally to 245.

I (assume) sign theft was an issue, but I wish CA-69 wasn't renumbered.

No, a portion of 262 was assigned more than that: 9, 17, US 48, 238 and 680 off the top my head.

IIRC wasn't that also at one point US 101E?

Yes, that's the one I couldn't think of.  Also LRN 5 and CA 21, but not CA 17.

[Henry]

The last map (1967 Caltrans) that you have in this article also seems to show a proposed highway 40 running south from near the East LA interchange.

Any idea whether this was real or a map-o?  It obviously doesn't have any relation to US 40, I-40, or LRN 40.

Got me there, I just assumed it was a map error. 

Given that the long-term goal was to get rid of US 40, and possibly extend I-40 to Bakersfield, that Route 40 in L.A. would obviously have to become something else, with the no-duplicates rule in place by then. I don't know what number it would've carried, but it definitely couldn't be 40 for the reasons listed above.

[cahwyguy]

The original California State Route 245 was a short lived post-1964 State Route located on Downey Road east of the Los Angeles City Limit.  The original California State Route 245 was aligned along Downey Road from the planned California State Route 60 Pomona Freeway south to Interstate 5 and the Santa Ana Freeway.  The original California State Route 245 was deleted by way of 1965 Legislative Chapter 1372 but remained an active highway until the opening of the Pomona Freeway. 

https://www.gribblenation.org/2023/06/the-first-california-state-route-245.html?m=1

I'm working on the highway pages today, and started to go through this article. Lots of errors to be corrected in a future edit.

Let's start at the top, where it says:

What was to become the original California State Route 245 entered the State Highway System during 1933 as part of Legislative Route Number 166 (LRN 166).  The original definition of LRN 166 was as follows:

"Los Angeles, Downey Road and 3rd Streets to the Huntington Beach-Whittier Road near Santa Fe Springs."

That's wrong. The 1933 definition was ""Los Angeles, Indiana and 3rd Streets to the Huntington Beach-Whittier Road near Santa Fe Springs"", which was added to the highway code in 1935 as "[LRN 172], at the intersection of Indiana and Third Streets, in Los Angeles, to [LRN 171] near Sante Fe Springs"

That was changed in 1941 to "In 1941, Chapter 142 changed both endpoints, making the route from "[LRN 172] at the intersection of Downey Road Indiana and Third Streets, in Los Angeles, to LRN 174 near Norwalk [LRN 171] near Sante Fe Springs".

Next is "Downey Road appears on the 1935 Division of Highways Map of Los Angeles as a component of LRN 166 between 3rd Street and 9th Street." and the subsequent map. That maps shows 3rd as 166, Indiana at 162, Anaheim-Telegraph as 169, 9th as 154. Those numbers are clearly NOT legislative route numbers. Contrast this with the back of the 1940 state highway map (the first to show LRNs on the back): Olympic/9th is LRN 173. Anaheim-Telegraph and Indiana (it is labeled) is 166, 3rd to Pomona is 172, and Whittier is LRN 2, as you would expect. So, it appears that in 1935, LRN 166 was along Indiana, not Downey.

That's what caught my eye going through your post. I was trying to figure out WHY this routing along Downey Road was created -- what did it connect -- and then I saw the text "What had been LRN 166 on Indiana Street was reassigned as the original California State Route 245.  The original definition of California State Route 245 on  Downey Road was as follows:" I went WTF? Indiana Street was never Route 245. Route 245 was always on Downey.

So the question becomes: When did LRN 166 move from Indiana to Downey, and why?

So look at the maps. 1940, as noted above, shows LRN 166 along Indiana and Anaheim-Telegraph Road. In fact, Indiana is the dividing point between LRN 173 along Olymic and LRN 166 along 9th to Anaheim Telegraph. But by 1942 (map) this has changed: LRN 166 is along Downey. LRN 173 still ends at Indiana, and it appears the stretch of 9th between Indiana and Downey, as well as Indiana, is no longer in the state highway system. Note the 1940 started the designation of Bypass US 101, and that designation moved with LRN 166. By the 1944 map, LRN 173 was extended along 9th to Downey, but Indiana is still out of the state highway system. Note that in 1943, the definition of LRN 173 was changed to end at LRN 166 near Downey Road. This was likely the catalyst for the change, but it was shown on the state highway map early. This routing continues through 1946.

The 1948 map shows a change: Indiana is now LRN 230. This agrees with what I have on my page for LRN 230, which notes:

In 1947 (1st Ex Session), Chapter 13 defined LRN 230 as "[LRN 172] to [LRN 173] via Indiana Street in Los Angeles County" .

This ran from LRN 172 (3rd St/US 60) to LRN 173 (Olympic, later Route 26, later I-10) via Indiana Street in Los Angeles County. It ran from 3rd St along Indiana to Olympic, and then along Olympic W to Soto St. The portion along Indiana was Route 165 between 1964 and 1965. . The portion along Indiana was Route 165 between 1964 and 1965.

I'll need to fix the above: LRN 230, at least until 1957, was only along Indiana. In 1957, the legislative definition of Route 173 was changed to terminate at LRN 2 near Soto St (it was formerly LRN 166 near Downey Road -- a change made in 1943). Although the legislative definition of LRN 230 didn't change, starting in 1959, the map showed the portion along Olympic from Soto to Indiana as LRN 230. This was the adjustment for the 1957 change in LRN 173.

The routings of LRN 230 and LRN 166 continue this way in subsequent maps until the renumbering. So the question remains: Why did LRN 166 move from Indiana to Downy Road? Looking at the 1942 map, I think Downey Road was likely the better route to connect LRN 172 (the route to Pomona, future Route 60) to US 101 Bypass. IIRC, Indiana is a tiny street -- bad for trucks -- and Downey is wider. War effort and all that rot.

Daniel

[Max Rockatansky]

Did some touching on the CA 245 (i) blog and History of US Route 101 in Los Angeles blog based off your reply. 

[cahwyguy]

It's still got a problem at the start, with:

The original definition of LRN 166 was as follows:

"Los Angeles, Downey Road and 3rd Streets to the Huntington Beach-Whittier Road near Santa Fe Springs."

Originally, it was on Indiana; later, it moved to Downey Road.

Similarly, later there is:

As part of the 1964 State Highway Renumbering the Legislative Route Numbers were deleted in favor of Sign Route Designations.  What had been LRN 166 on Indiana Street was reassigned as the original California State Route 245.  The original definition of California State Route 245 on Downey Road was as follows:

No. The Indiana Street routing became Route 165; the Downey Road routing became Route 245 (although by that time, Indiana St. was LRN 230, not LRN 166)

Here's what I have worked up that will be posted in the next round of updates:

*XSR* In 1963, Route 245 was defined as the route from "Route 5 near Los Angeles to Route 60 at the intersection of Downey Road." This may have been a temporary routing related to construction of the downtown interchanges.

Route 245 entered the State Highway System during 1933 as part of LRN 166, which was defined as "Los Angeles, Indiana and 3rd Streets to the Huntington Beach-Whittier Road near Santa Fe Springs". In 1935, this was added to the highway code as LRN 166 with the definition:

    "[LRN 172], at the intersection of Indiana and Third Streets, in Los Angeles, to [LRN 171] near Sante Fe Springs"

This route, as originally defined, would likely have run down from 3rd St (LRN 172) and Indiana St and then across Telegraph Road (the future I-5 routing) perhaps as far as Buena Park, where it met a routing of Route 39, which was LRN 171. The routing started out as US 101 Bypass, and later became I-5.

In 1941, Chapter 142 changed both endpoints, making the route from "[LRN 172] at the intersection of Downey Road Indiana and Third Streets, in Los Angeles, to LRN 174 near Norwalk [LRN 171] near Sante Fe Springs". Downey Road is the short-lived post-1964 Route 245. This led to a change in LRN 173, which was adjusted to end at Downey Road instead of Indiana Street. That change also removed Indiana Street from the state highway system (briefly). After this change, the route ran from LRN 172 (3rd Street, eventual Route 60) at the intersection of Downey Road to former Route 42 (LRN 174) near Norwalk. This included the segment of 1964-1965 Route 245 along Downey Road between Route 60 (LRN 172) and US 101, and the segment of US 101 (freeway routing) from Downey Road to LRN 174 (intersection with former Route 42). This was reflective of the creation of the US 101 Bypass Freeway.

In 1947, Indiana St was added back to the State Highway System, this time as LRN 230. It ran between Olympic/9th and 3rd. That changed in 1957, when Chapter 36 changed the terminus of LRN 173: "... to [LRN 166] near Downey Road [LRN 2] near Soto Street". This change made Olympic/9th St. between Soto St and Indiana part of LRN 230 (although no change was needed in the legislative definition). In the 1964 renumbering, LRN 230 became short-lived Route 165, LRN 173 became the Santa Monica Freeway, and the US 101 Bypass portion of LRN 166 became I-5 (connecting with the new freeway version of LRN 2).

[Max Rockatansky]

I'll have to go back and double proof read.  I did note in the update that Indiana Street is shown on the 1940 DOH map carrying a small portion of 101 Bypass south of Whittier. 

[cahwyguy]

Just trying to keep us all in sync. Next is getting AARoads to fix their US 101 page to agree with what you have for LA (or at least figure out which one is right).

[Max Rockatansky]

Just trying to keep us all in sync. Next is getting AARoads to fix their US 101 page to agree with what you have for LA (or at least figure out which one is right).

What does AAroads have for 101 in Los Angeles?  Suffice to say I'm not super surprised some of the US Route timelines and history needs to be updated as an outgrowth of terminus history for US 66.  US 99 certainly got altered quite bit with the big post 1934 alignment shift.

[cahwyguy]

Just trying to keep us all in sync. Next is getting AARoads to fix their US 101 page to agree with what you have for LA (or at least figure out which one is right).

What does AAroads have for 101 in Los Angeles?  Suffice to say I'm not super surprised some of the US Route timelines and history needs to be updated as an outgrowth of terminus history for US 66.  US 99 certainly got altered quite bit with the big post 1934 alignment shift.

Look at the first post in this chain: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33614.0 , before the discussion diverged off into the routing in the valley and ventura.

[Max Rockatansky]

Noted, went back and replied.  The key item in question is the February 5, 1930, Los Angeles city council minutes.  More less those meeting minutes are functionally the Rosetta Stone for the original routings of US 101 and US 99 in Los Angeles.