old Massachusetts photo

[agentsteel53]

anyone know what year?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-35-mm-Slide-Photo-Classic-Cars-Highway-Signs-Portland-ME-Portsmouth-NH-/111054935161?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item19db63d479



looks to me this is located at the current split between I-95 and US-1, just north of Danvers, with US-1 being placed on the bypass, and what is now US-1 numbered as MA-17.  am I correct?

[Mapmikey]

1956 RandMcn shows it as MA-26 and not MA-17.

Mapmikey

[NE2]

Yes, Route 17 was assigned to old (and current) US 1 for a while. Looks like it returned just across the state line at Smithtown (using Rabbit Road? this may be an error, especially since there was a direct northbound offramp to Main Street).
http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~212092~5500218:Shell-Map-of-Massachusetts,-Connect?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:Publisher%3D%22Shell%2BOil%2BCompany%22%2Bmassachusetts;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=4

Here's an aerial of these signs:

from http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=2&lat=42.591&lon=-70.965&year=1955

[PHLBOS]

Guess on my part, but since that stretch of what is now known as I-95 (US 1 in the photo) was initially laid out (in terms of right-of-way limits) circa 1950 w/construction beginning in 1951 and the highway itself opening in 1954; I would say somewhere in 1954-1956 time-frame.

Excerpt from the eBay ad.

This one looks like it is on the New Hampshire side of the border with Maine.

Give the seller a blindfold & a cigarette and place him against the wall. 

[agentsteel53]

awesome!  that narrowed it down very nicely.

I had never seen MA use such an inverse-video US shield.  the state shield I suppose I have, since its "cutout" form matches its "square" form. 

[PHLBOS]

It's interesting that the old sign (I'm assuming that it's a very dark green) for MA 17 (former & current US 1) lists SALISBURY on it. 

In 1969-70, when the interchange was reconfigured to its current layout (I-95's Exit 50) the first of the modern-style BGS' (erected shortly thereafter) for I-95 North listed Salisbury along with N.H. - Maine; the exact opposite of what's posted in the vintage pic.  It's not like the highway stopped short of the Merrimac River at the time (mid-50s).

It's also intersting that the old signs have the sides jagged for a parkway-like appearance.  Most old-school DPW BGS' of the era had smooth edges all around w/rounded corners.

[agentsteel53]

I believe the signs are black, as opposed to very dark green.  do you have evidence to the contrary?

then again, I believe these signs are black, so what do I know:

[Pete from Boston]

It's interesting that the old sign (I'm assuming that it's a very dark green) for MA 17 (former & current US 1) lists SALISBURY on it. 

In 1969-70, when the interchange was reconfigured to its current layout (I-95's Exit 50) the first of the modern-style BGS' (erected shortly thereafter) for I-95 North listed Salisbury along with N.H. - Maine; the exact opposite of what's posted in the vintage pic.  It's not like the highway stopped short of the Merrimac River at the time (mid-50s).

Perhaps the philosophy of which-road-for-which-trip wasn't how we think of it today.  Perhaps the expectation was that Route 1 would have all it could handle with interstate traffic, and that intrastate travel could and should continue to be directed via the  Newburyport Turnpike (today's US 1).

[agentsteel53]

this photo must have been taken seconds earlier.  check out the white guide sign for MA-62

[Pete from Boston]

Some great pictures in there.  Kind of a historical loss to just sell them off piecemeal.

[PurdueBill]

This pic seems to be of the Whittier bridge over the Merrimack, not the Piscataqua River Bridge on the NH/Maine line. 

[KEVIN_224]

Now that it's flipped around...I think that would be I-95 South heading from Amesbury into Newburyport, MA. Also, is that a sidewalk on the right side? 

P.S. The ME/NH bridge opened somewhere around 1972. 

[deathtopumpkins]

Yeah that's definitely the Whittier.

As to the sidewalk, it looks like there are the remains of a sidewalk on the abutments: http://goo.gl/maps/NUZ9F so that might be correct. I doubt they went all the way across through the truss structure though.

[PHLBOS]

Boy, this seller doesn't seem to know the vicinities of where these slides were taken.  Had he looked through that bridge slide w/either a viewer or projector; he would clearly seen the Commonwealth of Massachusetts shield/crest mounted over both sets of lanes on the bridge truss.

Something tells me that slide is actually a shot of I-95 Northbound approaching the bridge.  Today, there's a structure-mounted BGS containing the 1-mile notice for Exits 58A-B (MA 110 to I-495 South).

[roadman]

awesome!  that narrowed it down very nicely.

I had never seen MA use such an inverse-video US shield.  the state shield I suppose I have, since its "cutout" form matches its "square" form. 

As a general rule, until the mid 1960s, MassDPW almost never used route shields within the main portion of any of their BGS panels, even for US or Interstate routes (they only provided the route number).  I still recall a LGS "paddle sign" panel on MA 129 in Reading for I-93 that had a separate I-93 shield atop an old-school cut-corner sign - it lasted until the Somerville to Wilmington panel replacement project completed in the early 1990s.

Because adding the shields to the signs in the slides was apparently an afterthought, it's logical that the sign shop would had made them white on green.

From the mid-1960s on, MassDPW provided shields on most of their BGS panels, but the top-mounted LGS panels ("paddle signs") only had shields for Interstate routes only (many signs for the I-95/128 overlap had a shield for I-95, but only a numeral for 128), and the bracket-mounted smaller LGS panels had just numerals, and no shields at all.  It wasn't until the mid-1990s that MassHighway started using shields for all routes on all BGS and LGS panels - which remains the current standard.

As a sidebar, note that the current design for the replacement Whitter Bridge includes a pedestrian and bike path on the east side of the bridge that will connect the park and ride lot on the south side of the river with Route 110 on the north side of the river.

[Pete from Boston]

I didn't know the Whittier Bridge was being replaced (how'd all these bridges get so old while I stayed so young?) but it's good to hear about the path.  There are a lot of great recreational opportunities in that area -- the southern end of the bridge is between two parks, and there are some beautiful roads out to the beach in that area -- and I'm sure it will only enhance them.

[PHLBOS]

As a general rule, until the mid 1960s, MassDPW almost never used route shields within the main portion of any of their BGS panels, even for US or Interstate routes (they only provided the route number).

I believe the DPW started placing shields on ground-mounted BGS' a tad earlier than that.

Most of the early BGS' along MA 128 indeed had shields mounted in the upper-middle of the signs.  Granted, some of those shields could've been added later but I recall seeing one old BGS along 128 north approaching the MA 114 cloverleaf in Peabody, pre-1976, that showed a dark-green rectangle where a MA 114 shield once stood (it likely fell off).  Up close, it didn't appear to have additional holes for any previous individual button-copy numerals; so I would assume that the shield was erected w/the BGS when the cloverleaf interchange was expanded following the then-newly opened North Shore Shopping Center (now North Shore Mall).

The only old ground-mounted BGS' that only featured numerals w/no shields I recall seeing (as a kid in the early-to-mid 70s) was one along I-95 (then 128) northbound for MA 129 (current Exit 40, old Exit 34) and one along southbound 95 (then 128) at the MA 28 South exit (current Exit 38A, old Exit 36S).

The original 1962-era overhead BGS' at the US 1 interchange off I-95/MA 128 (current Exit 44, old Exit 30) just had numerals for 1 & 128, except at the southbound 128 which featured an outlined button-copy US shield around the numeral 1.

For the longest time, there was an old BGS mounted in the median of US 1 northbound (near the Centre St. exit & Calitri's Restaurant) that contained a button-copy I-95 shield mounted in the sign board.  The old message read, 95 NEWBURPORT NH-MAINE EXIT 1 MILE.  That BGS was still there in 1990; it's long gone now.

Speaking of I-95 (the original topic of discussion), the original BGS' at many (not all) of the interchanges had I-95 shields (but not button-copy) mounted in the signs.  I know the old Topsfield Rd. interchange (current Exit 52) had those signs until 95 was widened and the interchange was converted from a half-cloverleaf to the current diamond configuration circa 1974-1975.

[agentsteel53]

I believe the DPW started placing shields on ground-mounted BGS' a tad earlier than that.

it all depends on your definition of "on" 

I have seen (in fact, I have it on my wall at home) a 1930s photo of a white guide sign which says FRAMINGHAM/BOSTON on the rectangle itself, in cateyes, and above the rectangle are two discretely mounted shields on two posts: US-20 and MA-9.  standard cutouts as would appear on a post as a reassurance, in similar positioning to the 1 and 17 shields in the slides above.

as for a shield appearing within the boundary of the guide sign; I have not seen a paddle sign with both cut corners, and a US or square shield.  just some interstate shields appeared as a shield - as opposed to just a number - as far as I know, in the cut-corner era, which IIRC lasted until 1973 formally, with some stragglers being installed as late as 1978.

[PHLBOS]

Agentsteel53; I was referring to BGS' having shields on them (as opposed to above them).  Nowhere in my previous posts was I referring to older Paddle LGS' having shields in/on them.

Outside of Interstate shields, state & US shields didn't start appearing in LGS' until sometime in the 1990s as Roadman correctly stated.  The oldest Paddle LGS that contained an Interstate shield in the sign itself I saw was an early-70s era LGS (one of the last of the cut-corner types) in Danvers on approach to the I-95 South on-ramp from MA 62.  The LGS was a supplemental sign after one turns from MA 62 (at the traffic signal) and was located where one either turns left for the shopping center or right for I-95 South.  The message on the LGS simply stated SOUTH 95 BOSTON w/a horizontal right-turn arrow placed on the same level as the I-95 shield.  This LGS was likely replaced sometime in the 1990s.

the cut-corner era, which IIRC lasted until 1973 formally, with some stragglers being installed as late as 1978.

IIRC, the last of the cut-corner LGS' were installed no later than 1974.  Every LGS from 1975 henceforth is of the rectangular type.

[agentsteel53]

there was a cut-corner sign with a state-named I-291 shield in it that survived well into the 2000s.

[PHLBOS]

there was a cut-corner sign with a state-named I-291 shield in it that survived well into the 2000s.

My guess is that LGS was erected in the early 1970s.

[Dougtone]

This sign?

Mind you, I took this photo in June 2000.

[agentsteel53]

that's the one.  I recall it having a state name - am I incorrect, or is the photo too blurry?

[NE2]

I don't know about the cut corners sign (it had been covered by the time I got there in 2002) but the freeway-sized guide sign across the intersection had a state-name shield.

Since the cut corners sign had been merely covered (by a carbon copy on a rectangle), I got the date on the back: October 1970.

[Alps]

that's the one.  I recall it having a state name - am I incorrect, or is the photo too blurry?

The I-291 overhead signs did.