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District of Columbia

Started by Alex, April 07, 2009, 01:22:25 PM

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1995hoo

Quote from: oscar on May 15, 2012, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 15, 2012, 11:15:14 AM
Dr. Gridlock reports DC is adding some new speed camera locations.

The most notable ones are on both sides of I-395 near Exit 4 (eastbound, that's the exit marked "Maine Avenue/SW Waterfront/Nationals Park"; westbound, it's where the road splits with Maine Avenue and 12th Street traffic exiting to the right). The speed limit there is 40 mph and if you try to drive that slowly you put yourself in serious danger. It's unclear whether that's going to be a fixed or mobile camera location.

That location is on the commuting route to the U.S. Capitol of many congresscritters and their staffers who live in Virginia.  It'll be interesting to see what kind of blowback comes from them, once they start getting tickets in the mail.

Eastbound, that location for a time had a temporary work zone speed limit of 45mph, higher than the regular limit of 40mph.  I take that as yet more evidence that the 40mph limit is underposted, as D.C. is wont to do.

I wonder if the congressmen might claim immunity from ticketing under Article I, Section 6, clause 1:

QuoteThe Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

I seem to recall a news report some years back about Frank Wolf being issued a speeding ticket in Fairfax County that the police department then revoked because of this provision since Wolf was on his way to Capitol Hill for a regular session of Congress, but Wolf then insisted they issue the ticket because he said that's not the sort of thing for which this provision was intended. I might be mistaken about the facts; it may have been a car crash where he was at fault. Either way, if the story is true I think his point is valid. A constitutional provision of this sort should not be interpreted as giving the congressmen the right to break every law they choose without fear of penalty. We already run into that problem enough with the embassies and their people with Diplomat plates.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.


cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on May 15, 2012, 05:57:59 PM
Quote from: oscar on May 15, 2012, 11:29:36 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 15, 2012, 11:15:14 AM
Dr. Gridlock reports DC is adding some new speed camera locations.

The most notable ones are on both sides of I-395 near Exit 4 (eastbound, that's the exit marked "Maine Avenue/SW Waterfront/Nationals Park"; westbound, it's where the road splits with Maine Avenue and 12th Street traffic exiting to the right). The speed limit there is 40 mph and if you try to drive that slowly you put yourself in serious danger. It's unclear whether that's going to be a fixed or mobile camera location.

That location is on the commuting route to the U.S. Capitol of many congresscritters and their staffers who live in Virginia.  It'll be interesting to see what kind of blowback comes from them, once they start getting tickets in the mail.

Eastbound, that location for a time had a temporary work zone speed limit of 45mph, higher than the regular limit of 40mph.  I take that as yet more evidence that the 40mph limit is underposted, as D.C. is wont to do.

I wonder if the congressmen might claim immunity from ticketing under Article I, Section 6, clause 1:

Excellent  question.  And it is my understanding that relatively few Members live in the  Maryland suburbs of D.C. (perhaps because there are no freeway connections from D.C. to most of Maryland, just possibly?), so they will generally not encounter the photo radar enforcement along U.S. 50 (N.Y. Ave., N.E.) between Bladensburg Road and South Dakota Avenue, nor along I-295 at Blue Plains (Laboratory Road, S.W.), nor along D.C. 295 just south of Eastern Avenue, N.E.

QuoteThe Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

QuoteI seem to recall a news report some years back about Frank Wolf being issued a speeding ticket in Fairfax County that the police department then revoked because of this provision since Wolf was on his way to Capitol Hill for a regular session of Congress, but Wolf then insisted they issue the ticket because he said that's not the sort of thing for which this provision was intended. I might be mistaken about the facts; it may have been a car crash where he was at fault. Either way, if the story is true I think his point is valid. A constitutional provision of this sort should not be interpreted as giving the congressmen the right to break every law they choose without fear of penalty. We already run into that problem enough with the embassies and their people with Diplomat plates.

I recall a crash involving the late Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.) on U.S. 50 (Lee-Jackson Highway) some years ago, in, I believe, Fairfax County, Va.  If I recall correctly, he was headed west on U.S. 50 in the direction of his home state, but it was on a day when the Senate was not in session (I believe it may have been on Friday, 07-May-1999, according to this link (Highbeam.com pay site).  The site says Byrd was issued a summons for "following too closely," which was later voided. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

agentsteel53

I think "privileged from arrest" means they cannot be arrested right then and there.  they can be arrested, and given the usual due process of law, just starting at another time.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

The Washington Post's Mike DeBonis on what happens when a D.C.-licensed driver gets convicted of reckless driving in Virginia: D.C. drivers hurt by tough interpretation of Va. offenses

Interestingly, one of the "victims" in this story was convicted of reckless driving in the notorious (to some) speed trap on I-295 in Hopewell, Virginia.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

agentsteel53

Quote"Driving 81 miles per hour is dangerous, not only to the well-being of the driver, but also to those around him or her in that the ability to maintain control is reduced the higher the speed of travel,"  she wrote.

this coming from the director of the DC department of motor vehicles.

yes, in Washington DC, doing 81mph is quite likely reckless... but still, what a stunning lack of perspective.  has she ever driven rurally?
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

1995hoo

I think the Virginia law is a bit of a "gotcha" law, but it's hardly a secret either. It's WELL-known among many residents of both DC and Maryland that above 80 mph is grounds for a reckless in Virginia. But even if someone doesn't know the law, I have no sympathy at all for someone who doesn't read the summons. In Virginia reckless has to be charged for you to be convicted of it–the cop can't charge you with simple speeding 85 in a 70 zone and then the judge turns around and says "reckless." So you're on notice you face a reckless charge and it's your own fault if you fail to take it seriously. 
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 29, 2012, 08:43:25 AM
WTOP Radio: New type of traffic camera slated for D.C.

The idea of using cameras to enforce yielding to pedestrians gives me serious concern because I don't know how they intend to deal with the problems of pedestrians refusing to obey the lights and crossing wherever and whenever they wish. At some intersections it puts the driver in a serious bind–the one that immediately comes to mind is 18th & L NW, two one-way streets where drivers from 18th may turn right only on a green arrow (per a sign). But it can be difficult to make that turn because of all the asshole pedestrians who think they're allowed to walk during that green arrow signal (despite the obvious "Don't Walk" signal). I don't hesitate to force my way through and use my horn. It pisses them off, but that's their problem–it's not their turn to go, and if I don't force the issue I'll never get around the corner.

I'd like to know how they intend to use the cameras in that type of situation. The driver is damned if he goes, damned if he yields (as then he could get a camera ticket for turning after the green arrow ends).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

And then there's the definition of "yielding to pedestrians".  Most of us would probably think that if you can finish the turn before they get to you or go just after they pass the area you'll go through that you're fine - which it is in practice.  But I think the government defines it as not making any action to move as long as there is a pedestrian anywhere near the intersection, given how driver's ed instructed and road test people operate.  It's similar for cars; my cousin failed her road test the first time because she failed to yield to a car that was three blocks away from where she was turning!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

NE2

Quote from: deanej on August 30, 2012, 02:30:44 PM
But I think the government defines it as not making any action to move as long as there is a pedestrian anywhere near the intersection
Strawman. If they're in or within one lane of your half of the crosswalk.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 29, 2012, 12:47:55 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 29, 2012, 08:43:25 AM
WTOP Radio: New type of traffic camera slated for D.C.

The idea of using cameras to enforce yielding to pedestrians gives me serious concern because I don't know how they intend to deal with the problems of pedestrians refusing to obey the lights and crossing wherever and whenever they wish. At some intersections it puts the driver in a serious bind–the one that immediately comes to mind is 18th & L NW, two one-way streets where drivers from 18th may turn right only on a green arrow (per a sign). But it can be difficult to make that turn because of all the asshole pedestrians who think they're allowed to walk during that green arrow signal (despite the obvious "Don't Walk" signal). I don't hesitate to force my way through and use my horn. It pisses them off, but that's their problem–it's not their turn to go, and if I don't force the issue I'll never get around the corner.

I'd like to know how they intend to use the cameras in that type of situation. The driver is damned if he goes, damned if he yields (as then he could get a camera ticket for turning after the green arrow ends).

Most District of Columbia municipal police officers are not interested in writing traffic tickets to anyone, anytime, anywhere.  I suspect that per-officer, the U.S. Park Police and the U.S. Capitol Police probably issue more D.C. traffic tickets than the Metropolitan Police do.  Even though  a large percentage of the Capitol Police are not in police cars where they can initiate traffic stops.

Having said that, I think the elected officials of the city see automated enforcement as a revenue gold mine, and just possibly as a surrogate for the commuter tax that they are forbidden by the D.C. charter (enacted by Congress) from levying on Md. and Va. residents who work in the city. 
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

vdeane

Quote from: NE2 on August 30, 2012, 02:34:08 PM
Quote from: deanej on August 30, 2012, 02:30:44 PM
But I think the government defines it as not making any action to move as long as there is a pedestrian anywhere near the intersection
Strawman. If they're in or within one lane of your half of the crosswalk.
You and I might think that, but NYS DMV licence examiners are stricter, and I would think the government would adopt a position more similar to the licence examiner than to us because it would yield more revenue.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Washington Post op-ed by Courtland Milloy: Speed cameras: Traffic enforcement or highway robbery?

QuoteNot reckless driving, just cruising at speeds more appropriate for road conditions than the posted speed limit sometimes permits. Pop the top on the old Solara, fire up the CD player and hit the open road. A new Mercedes ad calls it "feeling alive,"  although the sensation can be just as good in any well-kept automobile.

QuoteLately, though, some jurisdictions have ramped up efforts to kill that feeling – to actually steal the joy of driving altogether – by "getting people out of their cars,"  as D.C. Mayor Vincent Gray (D) likes to say. And through the use of hyper-vigilant parking enforcement along with an explosion of red light and speed cameras, he's drawn a hard line in the sand.

QuoteJohn Townsend, spokesman for AAA Mid-Atlantic, is girded for battle.

Quote"When you look at plans for the future of transportation in the District, much of the focus is on making cars optional in the city,"  he said. "To make more room for pedestrians and cyclists, they want to make less room for cars. But most people in the city still get to work by car, and I don't see them having any options in the foreseeable future."
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: Councilmembers' bill would slash D.C. speed camera fines

QuoteA proposal by three members of the D.C. Council would reduce speed camera fines in the District from the highest in the nation to a maximum of $50.

QuoteD.C. Councilmember Tommy Wells, D-Ward 6, will introduce the Safety-Based Traffic Enforcement Act of 2012 Tuesday. As part of the bill, fines for photo-enforced infractions such as speeding, failure to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk, failure to stop at a stop sign or blocking the box in an intersection would result in a graduated fine with a maximum of $50.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Alps

Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 17, 2012, 05:26:41 PM
WTOP Radio: Councilmembers' bill would slash D.C. speed camera fines

QuoteA proposal by three members of the D.C. Council would reduce speed camera fines in the District from the highest in the nation to a maximum of $50.

QuoteD.C. Councilmember Tommy Wells, D-Ward 6, will introduce the Safety-Based Traffic Enforcement Act of 2012 Tuesday. As part of the bill, fines for photo-enforced infractions such as speeding, failure to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk, failure to stop at a stop sign or blocking the box in an intersection would result in a graduated fine with a maximum of $50.

I'm sure we have the technology to detect pedestrians in the crosswalk, but I've never heard of that being photo enforced. Also, failure to stop at a stop sign? Does that mean the camera is running video instead of still images, so that the fine is issued if the camera doesn't detect a stop? Again, I've never heard of this.

1995hoo

Washington Post: Single District speed camera: 116,734 tickets worth $11.6 million

Some of the material in this article is factually deficient:

QuoteThe District's biggest moneymaking speed camera in a 23-month period ending in August is the one on New York Avenue between Florida Avenue and the new Ninth Street overpass, which produced $11.6 million it tickets. The camera spewed out 60,241 tickets, worth $6.2 million, in the previous fiscal year.

But its jackpot potential was eventually eclipsed by a pair of cameras installed on D.C. 295, which runs just east of the Anacostia River.

The cameras – one catching southbound traffic and the other north – are on 295 just north of where it intersects with the Capital Beltway and the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.

Between Oct. 1 of last year and Aug. 31 of this year, the two cameras produced 161,399 tickets, with a face value of almost $15.9 million.

"Most drivers mistakenly assume D.C. 295 is an interstate highway or a U.S. highway, and they cruise along at what traffic engineers call the 85th percentile speed, which is the speed that 85 percent of the drivers on that freeway consider as the maximum safe speed for that location,"  said AAA's Townsend. "In fact, it is the only numbered route in the District that isn't an interstate or U.S. highway. And drivers who aren't aware of that are paying the price for that."

The productive D.C. 295 cameras helped make fiscal 2012 a year of frustration for drivers who don't like getting tickets and a lucrative year for the city tax coffers. The city has 47 red-light cameras and 46 speed cameras. Of the speed cameras, 10 are at fixed locations, 15 are portable and 21 are installed on police vehicles.

Those cameras are in fact on Interstate 295 near the Blue Plains sewage treatment facility, one for each carriageway (I pass them frequently on my way home from Nationals Park, and when traffic is even moderately heavy you CAN'T speed past the camera because all the local drivers know it's there and slow down to 40 to 45 mph in the 50-mph zone). The 50-mph speed limit there is absurd. I have no quibble with a low limit further north near South Capitol Street and especially in the 11th Street Bridge work zone, but posting 50 mph on the southern end of that road can only be intended as a "gotcha" measure to screw the suburban drivers.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

deathtopumpkins

Also, I hate how people (like the author of this article) assume that an interstate highway must be a better quality road, and that if it's not an interstate then it is not a high-speed road. No.  :-/
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

Clinched Highways | Counties Visited

1995hoo

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on October 24, 2012, 09:22:00 AM
Also, I hate how people (like the author of this article) assume that an interstate highway must be a better quality road, and that if it's not an interstate then it is not a high-speed road. No.  :-/

Indeed, and DC's Interstates in particular are not particularly good roads, although I-295 could use a higher speed limit for the southern portion (as mentioned above).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

oscar

Quote from: 1995hoo on October 24, 2012, 09:01:52 AM
Washington Post: Single District speed camera: 116,734 tickets worth $11.6 million

Some of the material in this article is factually deficient:

For another questionable item in the article (not about D.C., but still reflecting the article's accuracy):

"Speed cameras are employed in Virginia if authorized by local ordinance."

That's news to me.  There are plenty of red-light cameras in some Virginia communities, but even in notorious speed trap Falls Church city I've never seen a speed camera.
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