I-70 western Kansas control cities

[The High Plains Traveler]

I guess for me it just comes down to the fact that nothing in Kansas is mentioned at all on EB I-70 in Colorado until Burlington, while Kansas plasters some Colorado town over 150 miles from the border. Trying my best to not sound petty here, but if CDOT doesn't want to play nice on EB 70, then why should Kansas? If Colorado were to do the same as Kansas, then from what I can tell, they should be referencing Hays east of Limon, not Burlington.

To clarify, distance signs on I-70 in eastern Colorado do show Salina. Onramp destination is basically just Burlington.

Keep in mind none of the onramps between Limon and Burlington are from major highways where traffic is making long-distance decisions. Burlington works just fine for the rancher heading east from Arriba toward Flagler. I don't think there's any anti-Kansas agenda there. Without going to GSV, I would guess the onramp from U.S. 385 at Burlington probably points toward Goodland. EDIT: As I was corrected on this below, onramps in eastern Colorado on I-70 don't give destinations, only route directions.

[situveux1]

Yes, you are right, after Limon the distance signs do have Salina listed, I forgot that. But when I looked at GSV there are simply no directionals with a city listed at either Burlington exit. I'm sure there's probably not a anti-KS bias, but if Burlington is good enough for the eastern Colorado rancher, then Goodland should be good enough for the western Kansas farmer. I know, I know, let it go...

[J N Winkler]

If Colorado were following Kansas practice in signing control cities on I-70, any new ramp direction signs would uniformly use Hays and Denver in the eastbound and westbound directions respectively, and the mileage signs would give distances to other cities, the only city consistently appearing on every mileage sign being the next control city in that direction.  (It is similar to how every sign on the westbound Turnpike between Kansas City and Topeka always gives the distance to Topeka, but other destinations vary, with the distance to Denver being listed on at least one sign, but not all of them.)

After checking various I-70 interchanges on both sides of the state line, I suspect the signing on Colorado I-70 is somewhat out of date (with TABOR, CDOT does not have a whole lot of money to spare on sign replacements) and parsimonious, quite aside from any state-by-state differences in standards that may apply.  On the Colorado side, I checked a few state highway interchanges with I-70 and did not find any that actually had ramp direction signs, unlike K-27 in Goodland and I-70 exit 16 (which Google Maps identifies--correctly or not--as US 24 Business).  Even a minor county road like the one at Edson (Exit 27) has at least one.

In Colorado, ramp direction signs are absent at US 385 (Burlington), SH 59 (Seibert), and US 24-40-287 (Limon--all three exits), even though the Limon and Burlington exits have motel and truck-stop development similar to that found in Goodland.

As High Plains Traveler says, I don't think there is any anti-Kansas bias at work here; the real story here is that Colorado under-signs ramp approaches in comparison to Kansas, so I-70 control cities are hidden except on distance signs where they are mixed up with purely local destinations.  The signing at all of the interchanges I examined in eastern Colorado was restricted to I-70 trailblazer assemblies on pipework posts; in contradistinction, the Kansas interchanges all had large-format extruded aluminum ramp direction signs (mounted on slip bases) with a shield, a cardinal direction word, a control city, and an arrow.  Minimum provision at really minor interchanges on the Kansas side is a large-format direction sign giving destinations only (no shields or cardinal direction words), mounted on slip bases, with I-70 trailblazer assemblies nearby.

Edit:  I blame TABOR for this difference in provision.  Median household income is in the same range ($30,000 to $35,000) on either side of the state line, and the numbers are actually a little better in Kit Carson County (Colorado) than they are in Sherman County (Kansas).  The presence or absence of ramp direction signs does not seem to correlate to traffic volume, lane count, or other cross-sectional features on any of the I-70 crossroads I examined.  On the other hand, a typical KDOT ramp direction sign is 75 SF and so (assuming a nominal cost of $20 per SF, which I think is probably a bit on the low side for microprismatic sheeting) probably costs just under $2000 including posts and installation.

TABOR has supposedly been "de-Bruced" now, but there is still a strong incentive not to spend $2000 per ramp direction sign in the absence of brick-on-head evidence that they are absolutely necessary.  There is a convenience factor for CDOT as well, since ramp signing at I-70 interchanges is completely taken care of by proposal-only regionwide mass sign replacements (their preferred method) if there are no large signs or designable small guide signs to be taken into account.

[Scott5114]

that, again, is not what agnostic means.

while I generally know which state I am in, I don't care.  scenery doesn't give a shit about invisible lines on the ground.

OK.  Whatever.  Maybe you're simply not religious about what state your in.  This is so far off topic, I almost feel like asking which states in New England use Clearview.

www.dictionary.com
ag·nos·tic   /ægˈnɒstɪk/ Show Spelled[ag-nos-tik]
noun
1. a person who holds that [the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things] are unknown and unknowable [. . .]
2. a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study.

It is rather common, especially in the tech industry, to use "agnostic" to mean "indifferent to the particulars of X because it is equally supported or otherwise makes no difference what the particular is". One might say a widget is "protocol-agnostic" because it supports all common protocols, so which one you use with the widget does not matter, or because the widget is built in such a way that the protocol is simply irrelevant for whatever is going on and all are equally usable, perhaps because the widget actually just acts as a filter and makes no use of the protocol itself. (I could not find any entry in the Jargon File, the go-to dictionary for this sort of thing, to substantiate this, but I have seen its usage enough to contend that your dictionary entry is incomplete as it stands.)

[apeman33]

Either Goodland or Colby would be better in Kansas than Limon. Colby, I think, is the larger town. But Kansans who live in the Wichita TV market will be more familiar offhand with Goodland because it has a weather station. Basically, whatever Goodland gets, especially in the winter, will hit other parts of the state within a few hours. And Goodland usually gets the worst of it.

Were it me, I'd go with these cities:
E to W: Topeka, Salina, Hays, Goodland, Denver.
W to E: Goodland, Hays, Salina, Topeka, Kansas City.

[kphoger]

My picks:

(Eastbound from Denver) Burlington / Hays, KS / Salina / Topeka / Kansas City
(Westbound from Kansas City) Topeka / Salina / Hays / Burlington, CO / Denver

[The High Plains Traveler]

If Colorado were following Kansas practice in signing control cities on I-70, any new ramp direction signs would uniformly use Hays and Denver in the eastbound and westbound directions respectively, and the mileage signs would give distances to other cities, the only city consistently appearing on every mileage sign being the next control city in that direction.  (It is similar to how every sign on the westbound Turnpike between Kansas City and Topeka always gives the distance to Topeka, but other destinations vary, with the distance to Denver being listed on at least one sign, but not all of them.)

After checking various I-70 interchanges on both sides of the state line, I suspect the signing on Colorado I-70 is somewhat out of date (with TABOR, CDOT does not have a whole lot of money to spare on sign replacements) and parsimonious, quite aside from any state-by-state differences in standards that may apply.  On the Colorado side, I checked a few state highway interchanges with I-70 and did not find any that actually had ramp direction signs, unlike K-27 in Goodland and I-70 exit 16 (which Google Maps identifies--correctly or not--as US 24 Business).  Even a minor county road like the one at Edson (Exit 27) has at least one.

In Colorado, ramp direction signs are absent at US 385 (Burlington), SH 59 (Seibert), and US 24-40-287 (Limon--all three exits), even though the Limon and Burlington exits have motel and truck-stop development similar to that found in Goodland.

As High Plains Traveler says, I don't think there is any anti-Kansas bias at work here; the real story here is that Colorado under-signs ramp approaches in comparison to Kansas, so I-70 control cities are hidden except on distance signs where they are mixed up with purely local destinations.  The signing at all of the interchanges I examined in eastern Colorado was restricted to I-70 trailblazer assemblies on pipework posts; in contradistinction, the Kansas interchanges all had large-format extruded aluminum ramp direction signs (mounted on slip bases) with a shield, a cardinal direction word, a control city, and an arrow.  Minimum provision at really minor interchanges on the Kansas side is a large-format direction sign giving destinations only (no shields or cardinal direction words), mounted on slip bases, with I-70 trailblazer assemblies nearby.

Edit:  I blame TABOR for this difference in provision.  Median household income is in the same range ($30,000 to $35,000) on either side of the state line, and the numbers are actually a little better in Kit Carson County (Colorado) than they are in Sherman County (Kansas).  The presence or absence of ramp direction signs does not seem to correlate to traffic volume, lane count, or other cross-sectional features on any of the I-70 crossroads I examined.  On the other hand, a typical KDOT ramp direction sign is 75 SF and so (assuming a nominal cost of $20 per SF, which I think is probably a bit on the low side for microprismatic sheeting) probably costs just under $2000 including posts and installation.

TABOR has supposedly been "de-Bruced" now, but there is still a strong incentive not to spend $2000 per ramp direction sign in the absence of brick-on-head evidence that they are absolutely necessary.  There is a convenience factor for CDOT as well, since ramp signing at I-70 interchanges is completely taken care of by proposal-only regionwide mass sign replacements (their preferred method) if there are no large signs or designable small guide signs to be taken into account.

I'm going to have to find out who is putting the false memories into my head. I was surprised to look at GSV and note the total lack of destination signs at I-70 onramps in eastern Colorado, particularly the exit at Arriba where the rest area I've used a few times serves both directions of traffic.

As far as historical signage, I do remember the Turnpike distance signage once having frequent Denver references, and the Topeka exits indicating Denver along with Topeka. Denver has pretty much been replaced with Salina, except for the one distance sign Jonathan mentions. Also, once upon a time, there was a distance sign with Limon on it about 440 miles out; maybe near Manhattan? (If one could do a comparison of destination city populations to distance ratios, this would have been a contender). I was a little less clear on the transition of onramp destination signs, whether the signage in western Kansas was evolving toward Denver or toward Limon. Apparently it's the former. Either way, Kansas signage is superior. And, I'd love to get in a discussion of Colorado's TABOR and how it affects highway funding and general state governance, but unfortunately that's a Colorado topic. (Doug Bruce, with his felony conviction for tax evasion through his bogus non-profit, has largely "De-Bruced" himself, except to the true believers).

Finally, since Limon is germane to the I-70 control city discussion, I have long wondered what a more appropriate EB I-70 control city from Denver would be. Eastbound, Limon is an important highway divergence point, with U.S. 287 heading south.  As inappropriate as Burlington would look if used at the I-25/70 interchange, it would look even stranger if used, as Limon is now, on E-470 and I-225. All Burlington represents is the last Colorado town before entering Kansas. Nothing in western Kansas is big enough to justify using a Kansas destination from Denver, either. And, on the westbound side, maybe I have a bias because the U.S. 24 divergence from westbound I-70 is an exit I have used many times, but I think that divergence makes Limon a viable control point in Kansas despite its tiny size. At least, west of Hays.

Heck, let's just compromise and use WaKeeney between Denver and Topeka both ways!

[situveux1]

A great response from KDOT Dist. 3 Public Affairs Manager to my email questions that I thought I'd share. It looks like Limon signs will eventually become extinct in Kansas.

I would like to explain the rhyme and reasoning behind the signing issues you encountered while on your most recent trip to Denver.  I apologize, up front, as the language I am going to provide in the email may seem very technical and perhaps frustrating — as a response.  So, that being said, I encourage you to call our KDOT state signing engineer Eric Nichol (785) 296-1244.  He is a very nice guy, and a Fort Hays State University alum as well. J

I-70 was built across Kansas in sections, which most of the time they didn't initially connect to each other.  As these projects were being built, the destinations were determined by which cities were on that project.  As the projects started connecting to one another, there was not a continuity of destinations.  This discontinuity of destinations was not only happening in Kansas but across the nation as the interstate system was being completed.  Sometime in the 1970's AASHTO (American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials) started looking at ways to establish a continuity of destinations.  To do this they requested that states submit requests, with supporting information, as to which cities in their states they wanted as control cities.  Initially on I-70 the "approved"  control cities for Kansas were Salina, Topeka, and Kansas City and I believe that Colorado had Grand Junction, Denver, and Limon.  After this list was established, Kansas started making changes to the destinations when new construction and/or maintenance projects came along.  In the early 1990's, Kansas and the City of Hays "applied"  to be named as a control city on I-70 and was added to the book in 1993.  In the early to mid 2000's KDOT decided to change the destinations for the neighboring states to be the larger and more recognizable cities so Denver became the control city for I-70 WB.  Kansas currently is using the control cities of Denver and St. Louis on I-70 and Oklahoma City and Des Moines on I-35.  As signing projects are being done the control cities are being changed.  As pointed out, some states do not follow the guidelines for the control cities or limit when they show destinations outside of their state.

As for the second question, there should be signs for Hays showing the number of exits.  We thought these signs had been posted, so we appreciate that you brought this matter to our attention.  We plan to add these signs when we have a future project on I-70 around Hays.

Again, thanks for your concern. I hope you enjoy your new home in Hays.

Safe travels to you and yours.

Kristen Brands
KDOT Public Affairs Manager
District Three
312 South Second Ave.
Norton, Kansas
67654

[The High Plains Traveler]

^I appreciate this posting as it explains a lot and it makes some sense from the Kansas perspective. Is it consistent with relatively recent signage, though? Exiting the turnpike WB at Topeka, the signage which once read Denver now reads Salina. Was this change a decision of KDOT or KTA? Also - why would the official Kansas EB control city for I-70 and the NB control city for I-35 not be Kansas City? It would seem St. Louis and Des Moines would be appropriate Missouri control cities for these routes, but since Kansas City in essence straddles the state line, I don't see significant junctions in Kansas (east or north of I-635) where those other cities would be more appropriate, except maybe I-70/670.

[Scott5114]

St Louis is used as early as I-435. Apparently Kansas feels that "Kansas City" refers to the Kansas side, so once you enter KCK things generally switch to St Louis. (There are a few random signs pointing to KCMo and using "Kansas City", however.)

[J N Winkler]

Exiting the turnpike WB at Topeka, the signage which once read Denver now reads Salina. Was this change a decision of KDOT or KTA?

I assume you mean this:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Topeka,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Topeka,+Shawnee,+Kansas&ll=39.031711,-95.584649&spn=0.004192,0.009645&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=39.031725,-95.584769&panoid=ko_i4dF7QEBFTKOLXkxiaA&cbp=12,274.17,,0,8.55

The decision would have been made by KDOT and KTA jointly.  The East Topeka Interchange contract was advertised by KDOT but co-funded by KTA.

Also - why would the official Kansas EB control city for I-70 and the NB control city for I-35 not be Kansas City? It would seem St. Louis and Des Moines would be appropriate Missouri control cities for these routes, but since Kansas City in essence straddles the state line, I don't see significant junctions in Kansas (east or north of I-635) where those other cities would be more appropriate, except maybe I-70/670.

St. Louis is used as a control city on an I-70 pull-through just barely on the Kansas side of the state line (in Kansas City, Kansas):

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Topeka,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Topeka,+Shawnee,+Kansas&ll=39.10969,-94.61967&spn=0.004221,0.009645&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=39.10969,-94.61967&panoid=qBb1pGuZFwGzYyiS0s5WPw&cbp=12,37.83,,0,4.14

On I-35 and its child routes, however, the basic KDOT approach is to suppress control cities on pull-throughs.  (I think this is followed for the most part on I-70 as well--the sign for which I just provided a link appears to be an exception.)

It doesn't really surprise me that KDOT specifies control cities behind Kansas City for both I-35 and I-70.  It is certainly true that drivers leaving Kansas on either Interstate are then immediately in Kansas City, but at that point they have already been within the urbanized portion of the Kansas City metropolitan area for about a dozen miles.  In the case of I-70, much of that length has been within a town actually named "Kansas City."  A control city on a sign has little value for orientation if a driver is already in the urban area of influence of that control city.

The use of St. Louis and Des Moines also has, I suspect, an additional function:  it ensures that KDOT and MoDOT are singing from the same songbook.  Control of message loading is much weaker on the Missouri side, so control cities are more likely actually to appear on signs there (e.g., Topeka is used as a control city on SR 152 in Missouri even though the connection to Topeka is possible only by using I-435 and I-70).  If the control cities KDOT and MoDOT use match up, then that ensures the same names appear on distance signs on either side of the state line, even if KDOT chooses to omit city names on urban pull-throughs in the interest of simplicity and ease of reading.

I just now dug up the sign design sheets for KDOT project 24-105 K-8248-02, which was a signing project (advertised in late 2008) to move US 24 onto I-70 within I-435.  I observed something interesting:  if you approach I-70 on I-435, you are offered a choice between Topeka and St. Louis, but if you approach on K-7 (just 3 1/2 miles to the west), the choice is between Topeka and Kansas City.

[J N Winkler]

Apparently Kansas feels that "Kansas City" refers to the Kansas side, so once you enter KCK things generally switch to St Louis. (There are a few random signs pointing to KCMo and using "Kansas City", however.)

I think it is situational.  If you see "Kansas City" on a distance sign, then on I-35 at least, and probably also I-70, I think that is the distance to the Kansas City (Missouri) city limits unless KCK is explicitly specified.  If you see "Kansas City" on a pull-through, then that refers to the metropolitan area as a whole.

On this distance sign on I-70 eastbound just west of the K-7 interchange, it is clear that Kansas City, Missouri is meant:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Kansas+City,+MO&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Kansas+City,+Jackson,+Missouri&ll=39.099493,-94.869068&spn=0.008443,0.01929&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=39.099569,-94.868802&panoid=OLydtHn_XN1js0CJvk6cow&cbp=12,81.05,,0,13.29

(For I-70 in Kansas, I-435 appears to be where distance signing transitions to interchange sequence signing.  I think the changeover point is outside I-435 on Kansas I-35 because Olathe has sprawled well southwest of the I-35/I-435 cloverstack.)

[Road Hog]

I don't think it's all that uncommon to start signing the next control city once you get near the original control city. On I-30 going east Little Rock is signed once you get about 20 miles from Texarkana, and going the other way Dallas becomes signed along with Texarkana.

As an aside, I was a fan of the TV show Jericho (which unfortunately was not shot in western Kansas, but was set there) and always wanted to visit there. Never been farther west than Salina on I-70.

[route56]

(For I-70 in Kansas, I-435 appears to be where distance signing transitions to interchange sequence signing.  I think the changeover point is outside I-435 on Kansas I-35 because Olathe has sprawled well southwest of the I-35/I-435 cloverstack.)

That's fairly close. I've found that the change in control city for I-70 and I-35 to be at the first exit before the I-435 beltway (at 110th Street in KCK and 119th Street in Olathe, respectively)

[Scott5114]

Apparently Kansas feels that "Kansas City" refers to the Kansas side, so once you enter KCK things generally switch to St Louis. (There are a few random signs pointing to KCMo and using "Kansas City", however.)

I think it is situational.  If you see "Kansas City" on a distance sign, then on I-35 at least, and probably also I-70, I think that is the distance to the Kansas City (Missouri) city limits unless KCK is explicitly specified.  If you see "Kansas City" on a pull-through, then that refers to the metropolitan area as a whole.

This is probably true. It always somewhat bothered me that the direction signage for the 78th Street interchange refers to "Kansas City" as the destination for eastbound I-70, since the 435 interchange uses "St Louis" already, and you're already in the boundaries of a perfectly valid destination named Kansas City. Of course it must be assumed that KCMo is meant there, too.

(For I-70 in Kansas, I-435 appears to be where distance signing transitions to interchange sequence signing.  I think the changeover point is outside I-435 on Kansas I-35 because Olathe has sprawled well southwest of the I-35/I-435 cloverstack.)

I want to say it is the newest exit, which is (I believe) Lone Elm Road.

[J N Winkler]

(For I-70 in Kansas, I-435 appears to be where distance signing transitions to interchange sequence signing.  I think the changeover point is outside I-435 on Kansas I-35 because Olathe has sprawled well southwest of the I-35/I-435 cloverstack.)

I want to say it is the newest exit, which is (I believe) Lone Elm Road.

I believe you are correct.  I dug up the plans for the Lone Elm contract (KDOT project number 35-46 K-9014-01) and it has sign panel details for several interchange sequence signs.  I have also checked StreetView on I-35 between the last Gardner exit (175th Street) and Lone Elm, and spotted just one distance sign (Olathe 2, Kansas City 20; since 175th Street is Exit 214 and I-35 leaves Kansas at approximately milepost 235, the "Kansas City" in question has to be the one in Missouri).

[minneha]

I posted this question in another thread and sent a PM to J N Winkler, but I have not yet received a reply. J N Winkler said in this thread that the control cities on I-70 between Kansas City and Denver are Kansas City, Topeka, Salina, Hays, and Denver (but not Limon). He also said in another thread that Limon was "dropped" as an AASHTO control city.

I'm just curious when, or if, Limon was removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities. I know that Limon has been an AASHTO-approved control city for many decades. As far as I know, the most recent list of AASHTO-approved control cities was published in 2001 in the publication Guide Signs, Part III: List of Control Cities for Use in Guide Signs on Interstate Highways, 4th Edition. That publication lists Limon as a control city. I have searched online for any information regarding Limon being removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities, but I cannot find any information about it.

I'm interested in this because if Limon was removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities, then that would have implications for signing I-70 between Hays and Denver, would it not? Based on the information in this thread, Kansas has apparently decided to stop using Limon as a control city on westbound I-70 and use Denver as the control city instead. It would be easy enough for Colorado to also use Denver as the control city for westbound I-70 between the Kansas-Colorado border and Denver. As far as I know, Colorado might already do this.

But on eastbound I-70 between Denver and Limon, it would seem to me that Limon would need to remain the control city unless Colorado wanted to use Hays, Salina, or some other city as the control city. On Google Street View, Limon is listed as the control city on eastbound I-70 exit signs at northbound I-25, I-225, and E-470.

So, can anyone clarify whether or not Limon was actually removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities, and if so, when did this action occur?

[J N Winkler]

I posted this question in another thread and sent a PM to J N Winkler, but I have not yet received a reply. J N Winkler said in this thread that the control cities on I-70 between Kansas City and Denver are Kansas City, Topeka, Salina, Hays, and Denver (but not Limon). He also said in another thread that Limon was "dropped" as an AASHTO control city.

My source for the information regarding I-70 control cities in Kansas is KDOT's Highway Sign Manual (2007), which itself cites the AASHTO control cities list as a source but omits Limon.  (Colorado DOT has a loosely equivalent policy document, which unlike the Kansas one is online and accessible for public download.  However, it does not list control cities and only refers the reader to the AASHTO list.)

I'm just curious when, or if, Limon was removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities. I know that Limon has been an AASHTO-approved control city for many decades. As far as I know, the most recent list of AASHTO-approved control cities was published in 2001 in the publication Guide Signs, Part III: List of Control Cities for Use in Guide Signs on Interstate Highways, 4th Edition. That publication lists Limon as a control city. I have searched online for any information regarding Limon being removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities, but I cannot find any information about it.

My own searches suggest that the 2001 edition of the list is indeed the latest.  I do not have a copy of it as published by AASHTO, and have to rely on Paul Wolf's control cities site, which does list Limon.  I basically trust him to transcribe the control cities accurately.  The possibility I cannot exclude is that AASHTO removed Limon sometime after 2001 in a slip correction which would have been distributed to people who mail-ordered the control city list from the AASHTO online bookstore.  Such a revision, if it were indeed issued, would not necessarily be reflected in Wolf's control-cities site.

I'm interested in this because if Limon was removed from the list of AASHTO-approved control cities, then that would have implications for signing I-70 between Hays and Denver, would it not? Based on the information in this thread, Kansas has apparently decided to stop using Limon as a control city on westbound I-70 and use Denver as the control city instead. It would be easy enough for Colorado to also use Denver as the control city for westbound I-70 between the Kansas-Colorado border and Denver. As far as I know, Colorado might already do this.

The present position, as near as I have been able to establish from the sources available to me--which include Kansas DOT's signing plans for I-70 in western Kansas and Colorado DOT's photologging for I-70 eastbound--is that Kansas now ignores Limon as a control city on I-70 westbound while Colorado ignores Hays as a control city on I-70 eastbound.

However, figuring out which each state DOT considers to be a control city is kind of tricky because the two do not sign I-70 the same way.  The gold standard for control-city signing is pull-through signs, and I don't think there are any on I-70 between Limon and Salina with the possible exception of the US 40 split for Sharon Springs.

Kansas DOT uses ramp signs while Colorado DOT uses trailblazers.  By Kansas policy, the ramp signs use the next control points encountered along the route (which for Interstates are the AASHTO control cities, or at any rate the ones KDOT chooses to use).  Older ramp signs (installed in the 1999 major signing contract) all say "Limon" where they point traffic toward westbound I-70.  Newer signs (installed in the 2011 update contract) all say "Denver."  Meanwhile, on eastbound I-70 in Colorado, Limon is listed as the final destination (a position usually but not always reserved for control cities) on seven mileage signs between Denver and Limon, at which point final-line signing flips forward to Salina, not Hays.

But on eastbound I-70 between Denver and Limon, it would seem to me that Limon would need to remain the control city unless Colorado wanted to use Hays, Salina, or some other city as the control city. On Google Street View, Limon is listed as the control city on eastbound I-70 exit signs at northbound I-25, I-225, and E-470.

To be precise, Limon is used as a ramp destination on northbound I-25 (I have not checked I-225 or E-470), as is Grand Junction, which is the next AASHTO control city west (Denver itself does not count since I-25 at least, and possibly the other two, are considered as being within Denver).  But one would also expect Limon to be specified on pull-through signs on I-70 eastbound.  The interesting thing is that Colorado doesn't use pull-throughs on I-70 eastbound in urban Denver at all, even at system interchanges where one would ordinarily expect them to be used.

[kphoger]

It sounds to me like a good summary would be...

The AASHTO list of approved control cities may or may not have changed, but the states are free to not use Limon as a control city if they wish–which does seem to the the case at least in Kansas.

[Scott5114]

It seems as though Limon both is and is not a control city. Maybe the person in charge of determining such things got his PE certification done in Alanland.

[The High Plains Traveler]

To be precise, Limon is used as a ramp destination on northbound I-25 (I have not checked I-225 or E-470), as is Grand Junction, which is the next AASHTO control city west (Denver itself does not count since I-25 at least, and possibly the other two, are considered as being within Denver).  But one would also expect Limon to be specified on pull-through signs on I-70 eastbound.  The interesting thing is that Colorado doesn't use pull-throughs on I-70 eastbound in urban Denver at all, even at system interchanges where one would ordinarily expect them to be used.

On I-25 in Denver, Limon is a control city at E-470, I-225, I-70, and (southbound) at I-270. From the standpoint of Colorado drivers, this probably makes sense because Limon is the first population center of any significance east of Denver, and there is nothing to trump this for a couple of hundred miles into Kansas. Hays is probably an unknown town to many drivers, Salina not much better known, and who is actually going as far as Topeka or Kansas City? Conversely, Kansas traffic on WB I-70 likely have their eyes on Denver, except for the relatively few who are exiting at Limon to go to Colorado Springs. 

[kphoger]

From the standpoint of Colorado drivers, this probably makes sense because Limon is the first population center of any significance east of Denver, and there is nothing to trump this for a couple of hundred miles into Kansas. Hays is probably an unknown town to many drivers, Salina not much better known, and who is actually going as far as Topeka or Kansas City? Conversely, Kansas traffic on WB I-70 likely have their eyes on Denver, except for the relatively few who are exiting at Limon to go to Colorado Springs. 

On what do you base the supposition that eastbound traffic from Denver isn't likely to be going as far as Topeka yet westbound traffic from Topeka is more likely to be going as far as Denver?  With Colorado Springs being such a large area, in fact, I'm starting to see Limon as more reasonable a westbound control city than an eastbound one.  I still think Burlington would do for an eastbound control city, as pretty much anyone driving farther east than Limon is probably already familiar with it.

[minneha]

My source for the information regarding I-70 control cities in Kansas is KDOT's Highway Sign Manual (2007), which itself cites the AASHTO control cities list as a source but omits Limon.

Thanks for the information and reply. It seems that Limon is still used as a control city for eastbound I-70 between Denver and Limon. I'm basing this on the mileage signs that you referred to and the ramp destination signs, plus the fact that Limon is still presumably listed as a control city in the most recent AASHTO list of control cities. AASHTO has a separate list of control cities for eastbound I-70 than it does for westbound I-70. If Colorado follows Kansas' practice of using Denver as the control city for westbound I-70, then Limon could be removed from the list of control cities for westbound I-70.

[brad2971]

From the standpoint of Colorado drivers, this probably makes sense because Limon is the first population center of any significance east of Denver, and there is nothing to trump this for a couple of hundred miles into Kansas. Hays is probably an unknown town to many drivers, Salina not much better known, and who is actually going as far as Topeka or Kansas City? Conversely, Kansas traffic on WB I-70 likely have their eyes on Denver, except for the relatively few who are exiting at Limon to go to Colorado Springs. 

On what do you base the supposition that eastbound traffic from Denver isn't likely to be going as far as Topeka yet westbound traffic from Topeka is more likely to be going as far as Denver?  With Colorado Springs being such a large area, in fact, I'm starting to see Limon as more reasonable a westbound control city than an eastbound one.  I still think Burlington would do for an eastbound control city, as pretty much anyone driving farther east than Limon is probably already familiar with it.

You'd be surprised at how many going east from Denver take I-135 down to Wichita/OKC/DFW Metroplex. After all, (sorry Kansas City) we Denverites utilize I-76/I-80 to go to Chicago, and if we don't like using US287, we'll swallow hard and pay the KTA toll south of Wichita.

[The High Plains Traveler]

From the standpoint of Colorado drivers, this probably makes sense because Limon is the first population center of any significance east of Denver, and there is nothing to trump this for a couple of hundred miles into Kansas. Hays is probably an unknown town to many drivers, Salina not much better known, and who is actually going as far as Topeka or Kansas City? Conversely, Kansas traffic on WB I-70 likely have their eyes on Denver, except for the relatively few who are exiting at Limon to go to Colorado Springs. 

On what do you base the supposition that eastbound traffic from Denver isn't likely to be going as far as Topeka yet westbound traffic from Topeka is more likely to be going as far as Denver?  With Colorado Springs being such a large area, in fact, I'm starting to see Limon as more reasonable a westbound control city than an eastbound one.  I still think Burlington would do for an eastbound control city, as pretty much anyone driving farther east than Limon is probably already familiar with it.

In large part, I'm commenting as someone who doesn't really agree with using cities 400 miles or more away as control cities. I think of the I-215 and I-80 interchange near Salt Lake City that offers me Reno and Cheyenne. Really? Nothing closer?

However, I also don't like to see a very small town, whose only claim to prominence is a moderately significant junction and that has a much larger metropolitan area an hour west of it, used. Maybe I-70 from Denver to Salina is a stretch of highway that warrants two control cities in both directions, one near and one far.  (Note: this wouldn't work in metro Denver, since the I-25 exits that list Limon - except at I-70 -also usually list Aurora). This concept would affect Kansas more than Colorado, unless Colorado can be convinced to put control cities on its eastern I-70 interchanges like they have on I-25 in southern Colorado.

I've driven all of I-70 in Colorado and Kansas, and so I am familiar with the small cities and distances involved.