News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

New York State Thruway

Started by Zeffy, September 22, 2014, 12:00:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

lstone19

Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2020, 01:54:49 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that NY never emphasized the Thruway to the same degree as neighboring states emphasized their toll roads, at least not in my lifetime.  Reassurance markers are just I-87 or just I-90.  Even some guide signs don't include the Thruway.  Meanwhile, the MassPike and NJ Turnpike post their shields religiously, and the PTC has gigantic oversized shields at Turnpike junctions.

This ultimately comes down to the question of who are roads numbered for.  Locals will adapt, but someone from out of the area who hasn't even heard of the Thruway could get confused, especially as it isn't emphasized on signs.


Valerie, you are quite a but younger than me so your take is interesting (but I'm glad you included "at least not in my lifetime"). You may well be correct that they're de-emphasizing the name (I remember three or four years ago that it seemed every single press release at http://www.thruway.ny.gov/news/pressrel/index.html started "Thruway Authority Announces ..." (now only about half do) as if getting the Thruway Authority name out front and center was the most important thing.

But the Thruway name is not going away anytime soon. My opinion is if they want to number the I-87 and I-90 segments separately, they first need to make name modifications so that the main line isn't all "New York Thruway". You'd want to keep Thruway in the name but just like there is the New England Thruway and Niagara Thruway, maybe Hudson River Thruway for the I-87 segment and for I-90, Lake Erie Thruway for Pennsylvania to Buffalo, Erie Canal Thruway for Buffalo to Albany, and Berkshire Thruway for the current Berkshire Spur. Start emphasizing those names for a few years so people start using them instead of the generic "Thruway", then renumber. Otherwise, you will lead to confusion when people aren't sure what part of "the Thruway" they're on.

What you don't want to do is turn it into the confused mess that is the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Looking at their website, I see they have renumbered the I-95 section. Which means that for the traveler heading westbound off the NJ Turnpike, the exit numbers, in order, are 42, , then take exit 40 to stay on the Turnpike, 351, 343, 340, 339, 20, 333 (and then finally decreasing to the Ohio line). Using the I-476 exit number (20) on the Turnpike mainline is just plain stupid (and I confirmed on Google Street View that that is what they did). They really should bury the Pennsylvania Turnpike name as it just creates the expectation of a consistency that is no longer there.


webny99

In this area (western NY, several hundred miles west of I-87), "Thruway" and "I-90" are basically synonyms.
To me, the part of the Thruway south of Albany is just I-87, not the Thruway. That's how I avoid confusion with the Thruway that I know and love: I-90  :)

jp the roadgeek

Having figured out what the mileage based exits would be for I-87 and I-90 as individual highways, there would only be 2 instances of duplicate exit numbers on the mainline (the Exit 1 on I-87 would be on the Deegan).  Exit 10 A/B on I-87 would be in Yonkers for Mile Square Rd and the Cross County and Exit 10 on I-90 would be in Westfield for NY 394 (about 483 miles apart).  The other would be Exit 68, which on I-87 would be in Newburgh for I-84/NY 17K and on I-90 would be for NY 400/NY 16 in West Seneca (about 368 miles apart).
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

lstone19

Quote from: webny99 on June 26, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
In this area (western NY, several hundred miles west of I-87), "Thruway" and "I-90" are basically synonyms.
To me, the part of the Thruway south of Albany is just I-87, not the Thruway. That's how I avoid confusion with the Thruway that I know and love: I-90  :)

And yet I'm of an age where the Thruway south of Albany would never be called I-87 because for so many years, much of it wasn't. And throw in how I-87 made its way from the Northway to the Thruway (we do love to think of those things here). Today's Thruway Exit 24, as bad as it is for I-87, is a vast improvement of the one from 40+ years ago, a simple trumpet indistinguishable from any other trumpet with southbound I-87 entering via the inside loop of the trumpet. Both I-87 and I-90 back then exited and entered the Thruway via slow ramps no faster than any other interchange.

TheDon102

In Westchester county, I've never heard people refer to the highway as the "thruway", I've only ever heard 87... I think the I-87 shields have a big effect over here.

Rothman

Quote from: lstone19 on June 26, 2020, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 26, 2020, 05:10:09 PM
In this area (western NY, several hundred miles west of I-87), "Thruway" and "I-90" are basically synonyms.
To me, the part of the Thruway south of Albany is just I-87, not the Thruway. That's how I avoid confusion with the Thruway that I know and love: I-90  :)

And yet I'm of an age where the Thruway south of Albany would never be called I-87 because for so many years, much of it wasn't. And throw in how I-87 made its way from the Northway to the Thruway (we do love to think of those things here). Today's Thruway Exit 24, as bad as it is for I-87, is a vast improvement of the one from 40+ years ago, a simple trumpet indistinguishable from any other trumpet with southbound I-87 entering via the inside loop of the trumpet. Both I-87 and I-90 back then exited and entered the Thruway via slow ramps no faster than any other interchange.
Time for the old dog to learn new tricks.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

RobbieL2415

Possibly stupid idea:

Give all exits in the Thruway system a letter prefix:

New England Thruway: NE-##
Berkshire Extension: already B-##
Thruway Mainline: M-##
Niagara Thruway: N-##
GSP Connector: G-##

Free I-90 would be given mileage-based exits from the split from the Berkshire Conn. to I-87.

I-87 exits will switch to mileage-based at the beginning of the Northway. The one exit on the non I-87 Northway for the Crossgates Mall becomes unnumbered.

Dual mile markers are displayed on I-87 from the beginning of the Mainline to the Northway.  Each mileage set follows its respective route. Every mile marker within the Thruway system will carry the same letter prefix. So, an example Mainline setup would be:

|NYST  |       | I-87 |
|   M    |       |   1   |
|   1     |       |   2   |
|   2     |       |   3   |
|   3     |

storm2k

Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2020, 01:54:49 PMOne thing to keep in mind is that NY never emphasized the Thruway to the same degree as neighboring states emphasized their toll roads, at least not in my lifetime.  Reassurance markers are just I-87 or just I-90.  Even some guide signs don't include the Thruway.  Meanwhile, the MassPike and NJ Turnpike post their shields religiously, and the PTC has gigantic oversized shields at Turnpike junctions.

I've never understood quite how NYSTA or NYSDOT have tried to figure out how to emphasize that they're on the Thurway, because they don't put Thruway shields on their pullthrus or reassurance shields, but NYSDOT is pretty good about putting them on sign assemblies near Thruway interchanges. It is a stark contrast to the NJ Turnpike, which, until recently, really did its damnedest to deemphasize that a major super important interstate was signed along its route.

cl94

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on June 27, 2020, 11:57:29 PM
Possibly stupid idea:

Give all exits in the Thruway system a letter prefix:

New England Thruway: NE-##
Berkshire Extension: already B-##
Thruway Mainline: M-##
Niagara Thruway: N-##
GSP Connector: G-##

Free I-90 would be given mileage-based exits from the split from the Berkshire Conn. to I-87.

I-87 exits will switch to mileage-based at the beginning of the Northway. The one exit on the non I-87 Northway for the Crossgates Mall becomes unnumbered.

FHWA wants I-87 and I-90 to each have ONE set of exits as part of any switch. Basically, if they're switching, they want it to be done properly. Which means no more Thruway exit numbers.

Needless to say, NYSTA has no plans to switch anytime soon and you should expect 87 and 90 to be the last Interstates in the state to become distance-based.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

machias

Quote from: cl94 on June 28, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on June 27, 2020, 11:57:29 PM
Possibly stupid idea:

Give all exits in the Thruway system a letter prefix:

New England Thruway: NE-##
Berkshire Extension: already B-##
Thruway Mainline: M-##
Niagara Thruway: N-##
GSP Connector: G-##

Free I-90 would be given mileage-based exits from the split from the Berkshire Conn. to I-87.

I-87 exits will switch to mileage-based at the beginning of the Northway. The one exit on the non I-87 Northway for the Crossgates Mall becomes unnumbered.

FHWA wants I-87 and I-90 to each have ONE set of exits as part of any switch. Basically, if they're switching, they want it to be done properly. Which means no more Thruway exit numbers.

Needless to say, NYSTA has no plans to switch anytime soon and you should expect 87 and 90 to be the last Interstates in the state to become distance-based.

NYSDOT should do some further good faith on renumbering and renumber "Free 90"  in the Capital District with exit numbers starting at 349.

vdeane

Quote from: cl94 on June 28, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
Needless to say, NYSTA has no plans to switch anytime soon and you should expect 87 and 90 to be the last Interstates in the state to become distance-based.
Yeah, all those new gore signs they're putting up definitely don't have room for an extra digit, so they evidently expect to stay sequential for a while.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

RobbieL2415

#1936
Quote from: cl94 on June 28, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on June 27, 2020, 11:57:29 PM
Possibly stupid idea:

Give all exits in the Thruway system a letter prefix:

New England Thruway: NE-##
Berkshire Extension: already B-##
Thruway Mainline: M-##
Niagara Thruway: N-##
GSP Connector: G-##

Free I-90 would be given mileage-based exits from the split from the Berkshire Conn. to I-87.

I-87 exits will switch to mileage-based at the beginning of the Northway. The one exit on the non I-87 Northway for the Crossgates Mall becomes unnumbered.

FHWA wants I-87 and I-90 to each have ONE set of exits as part of any switch. Basically, if they're switching, they want it to be done properly. Which means no more Thruway exit numbers.

Needless to say, NYSTA has no plans to switch anytime soon and you should expect 87 and 90 to be the last Interstates in the state to become distance-based.
I don't associate the individual Interstate numbers with the Thruway Mainline. I don't know of anyone who disagrees.

IMO if the FHWA wants to say that the Thruway is part of I-87 and I-90, it should be signed but not touch the exit numbers. I know this goes against every regulation in the book. The Thruway predates the Interstate system, it has a historical significance to the State of New York, and for the purpose of preserving that history the exit numbers should reflect it's history.

KEVIN_224

Quote from: Glockspeed Gaming on June 24, 2020, 12:10:03 PM
I would renumber the exits and mileposts according to I-90 and I-87, much like the Pennsylvania Turnpike does with the mainline and NE extension, or what Connecticut does with I-95 and I-395. It makes more sense that way I think, and it's less confusing to not just people who live there, but newcomers and travelers too.

No longer in Connecticut. I-395 from the I-95 split in Waterford north to the MA border is now mileage-based exiting.

Alps

Quote from: RobbieL2415 on June 29, 2020, 12:59:42 PM
Quote from: cl94 on June 28, 2020, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on June 27, 2020, 11:57:29 PM
Possibly stupid idea:

Give all exits in the Thruway system a letter prefix:

New England Thruway: NE-##
Berkshire Extension: already B-##
Thruway Mainline: M-##
Niagara Thruway: N-##
GSP Connector: G-##

Free I-90 would be given mileage-based exits from the split from the Berkshire Conn. to I-87.

I-87 exits will switch to mileage-based at the beginning of the Northway. The one exit on the non I-87 Northway for the Crossgates Mall becomes unnumbered.

FHWA wants I-87 and I-90 to each have ONE set of exits as part of any switch. Basically, if they're switching, they want it to be done properly. Which means no more Thruway exit numbers.

Needless to say, NYSTA has no plans to switch anytime soon and you should expect 87 and 90 to be the last Interstates in the state to become distance-based.
I don't associate the individual Interstate numbers with the Thruway Mainline. I don't know of anyone who disagrees.

IMO if the FHWA wants to say that the Thruway is part of I-87 and I-90, it should be signed but not touch the exit numbers. I know this goes against every regulation in the book. The Thruway predates the Interstate system, it has a historical significance to the State of New York, and for the purpose of preserving that history the exit numbers should reflect it's history.
I disagree. Now you know of someone.

Buffaboy

Quote from: astralentity on June 08, 2020, 12:00:16 PM
http://archive.is/WI01X

This came up on my feed today.  With everything else going on, its somehow a priority to rename the Thruway?   :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Fredrick Douglass is an American hero.

But it's frivolous to rename the Thruway for no reason. It's not productive at all, it's merely symbolism.
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

Buffaboy

Quote from: TheDon102 on June 26, 2020, 11:04:51 PM
In Westchester county, I've never heard people refer to the highway as the "thruway", I've only ever heard 87... I think the I-87 shields have a big effect over here.

It might also be due to that fact that it's a free road in Westchester County IIRC
What's not to like about highways and bridges, intersections and interchanges, rails and planes?

My Wikipedia county SVG maps: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Buffaboy

D-Dey65

Quote from: Buffaboy on July 02, 2020, 12:20:23 AM
Quote from: astralentity on June 08, 2020, 12:00:16 PM
http://archive.is/WI01X

This came up on my feed today.  With everything else going on, its somehow a priority to rename the Thruway?   :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Fredrick Douglass is an American hero.

But it's frivolous to rename the Thruway for no reason. It's not productive at all, it's merely symbolism.
That's the same way I felt about renaming Hempstead LIRR station and the adjacent bus terminal for Rosa Parks. She may have been great for taking on Jim Crow in the public transit system of the deep south, but from what I recall, there were no whites only seats on the buses of any of the predecessors to the MSBA.


jp the roadgeek

Quote from: Buffaboy on July 02, 2020, 12:26:53 AM
Quote from: TheDon102 on June 26, 2020, 11:04:51 PM
In Westchester county, I've never heard people refer to the highway as the "thruway", I've only ever heard 87... I think the I-87 shields have a big effect over here.

It might also be due to that fact that it's a free road in Westchester County IIRC

There is a toll gantry in Ardsley. 
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

webny99

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 02, 2020, 02:16:59 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on July 02, 2020, 12:26:53 AM
Quote from: TheDon102 on June 26, 2020, 11:04:51 PM
In Westchester county, I've never heard people refer to the highway as the "thruway", I've only ever heard 87... I think the I-87 shields have a big effect over here.
It might also be due to that fact that it's a free road in Westchester County IIRC
There is a toll gantry in Ardsley.

Is that one of the ones that's free for cars?

lstone19

Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2020, 07:45:32 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 02, 2020, 02:16:59 AM
There is a toll gantry in Ardsley.
Is that one of the ones that's free for cars?

No. You're thinking of Spring Valley (located between exits 14A and 14B) which is no toll for regular automobiles and is northbound only. Ardsley is between exits 6A and 7 and is in both directions.

vdeane

Quote from: lstone19 on July 02, 2020, 08:17:15 AM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2020, 07:45:32 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 02, 2020, 02:16:59 AM
There is a toll gantry in Ardsley.
Is that one of the ones that's free for cars?

No. You're thinking of Spring Valley (located between exits 14A and 14B) which is no toll for regular automobiles and is northbound only. Ardsley is between exits 6A and 7 and is in both directions.
And it's technically named the Yonkers toll.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

lstone19

Quote from: vdeane on July 02, 2020, 04:28:48 PM
Quote from: lstone19 on July 02, 2020, 08:17:15 AM
Quote from: webny99 on July 02, 2020, 07:45:32 AM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 02, 2020, 02:16:59 AM
There is a toll gantry in Ardsley.
Is that one of the ones that's free for cars?

No. You're thinking of Spring Valley (located between exits 14A and 14B) which is no toll for regular automobiles and is northbound only. Ardsley is between exits 6A and 7 and is in both directions.
And it's technically named the Yonkers toll.

I knew Ardsley was bugging me but yes, Yonkers toll but Ardsley service area.

TheDon102

Not related but the Yonkers Toll is such a waste. Everyone avoids it like the plague including me  :bigass:


Just use the Sprain to I-287 if you wanna get to the Tappan Zee Mario M. Cuomo Bridge. 

webny99

Finally got a chance to use the Thruway this past weekend (Sunday afternoon) for more than a few miles for the first time since March. Traffic was heavy by pandemic standards, but light by holiday weekend standards. In other words, busy, but manageable, and moving well aside from few rolling roadblocks heading west.

RobbieL2415

Drove the mainline over the weekend from Albany to Rochester. I noticed that the progress being made with AET is highly fragmented. Most gantries in Albany are completed and ready for activation, but gradually decline in completion the further west you go.
It would appear as though they are going with a hybrid barrier/closed ticket approach, with gantries on some ramps and at times on the Thruway proper.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.