This will now be the topic for cars of the 2000's +
Shall we start with the new
Bronco 2021
Chevy Tahoe
GMC
iPhone
Polestar 1
(From their website)
600 hp, 737 ft-lb of torque
Precise lines, inside and out
Unprecedented use of carbon fiber
60 miles on a single charge
The longest range of any hybrid
(End of website pitch)
It's only $155,000. Well, starting at.
(https://www.polestar.com/dato-assets/11286/1586885615-polestar1side-metalic.png?q=60&dpr=1&auto=format&fm=png&w=1300)
The new Acura TLX looks very promising. Can't say that about the now-decade-old Lexus IS "new" generation.
Generally I'm not a fan of the emergence of CUVs or electric vehicles. Its not that either is bad, I personally just find them kind of boring and vanilla. I find that odd to say given how formulaic sedans really got as the 70s, 80s, and 90s churned onward towards modern times. Some of the things going on with performance cars is absolutely amazing in terms of power and efficiency. The reemergence of muscle cars/pony cars the past two decades is something personally I've enjoyed having owned a 2010 Camaro SS and a 2016 Challenger Scat pack. I couldn't fathom buying cars with 400 plus horsepower on the regular in the 1990s and really all of the 2000s.
Quote from: Takumi on July 15, 2020, 09:42:02 PM
The new Acura TLX looks very promising. Can't say that about the now-decade-old Lexus IS "new" generation.
I can't wait to buy a brand new Acura TL(X) when I have the money.
My first car was a Acura TL 98 addition, powered seats, ash tray doors & leather/woodgrain. It was a luxury car for even 2015, sadly it passed away due to transmission issues.
I will always be a Acura Boy.
Also those new NSX's :awesomeface:
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 09:49:47 PM
Generally I'm not a fan of the emergence of CUVs or electric vehicles. Its not that either is bad, I personally just find them kind of boring and vanilla. I find that odd to say given how formulaic sedans really got as the 70s, 80s, and 90s churned onward towards modern times. Some of the things going on with performance cars is absolutely amazing in terms of power and efficiency. The reemergence of muscle cars/pony cars the past two decades is something personally I've enjoyed having owned a 2010 Camaro SS and a 2016 Challenger Scat pack. I couldn't fathom buying cars with 400 plus horsepower on the regular in the 1990s and really all of the 2000s.
Did you see ford is dropping there Electric F-150 next year? Id love to hear how that sounds and how long it lasts on a charge for a working day, not a suburb dad going to the golf course day.
It also is amazing how much horse power vehicles have now.
But what did you think of the new bronco's? good or bust? I personally love them, my right hand man says they look like the car that looks like a Land Rover but its not, I forgot the name of it.
it will be a good competition for Jeep and I like the direction ford is finally going in after creating some of the ugliest cars of the 90's & 2000's
Quote from: Tonytone on July 15, 2020, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 09:49:47 PM
Generally I'm not a fan of the emergence of CUVs or electric vehicles. Its not that either is bad, I personally just find them kind of boring and vanilla. I find that odd to say given how formulaic sedans really got as the 70s, 80s, and 90s churned onward towards modern times. Some of the things going on with performance cars is absolutely amazing in terms of power and efficiency. The reemergence of muscle cars/pony cars the past two decades is something personally I've enjoyed having owned a 2010 Camaro SS and a 2016 Challenger Scat pack. I couldn't fathom buying cars with 400 plus horsepower on the regular in the 1990s and really all of the 2000s.
Did you see ford is dropping there Electric F-150 next year? Id love to hear how that sounds and how long it lasts on a charge for a working day, not a suburb dad going to the golf course day.
It also is amazing how much horse power vehicles have now.
But what did you think of the new bronco's? good or bust? I personally love them, my right hand man says they look like the car that looks like a Land Rover but its not, I forgot the name of it.
it will be a good competition for Jeep and I like the direction ford is finally going in after creating some of the ugliest cars of the 90's & 2000's
I can't see myself as a buyer of a fully electric vehicle for several reasons:
- The premium compared to a traditional internal combustion engine. There is still too far of a gap in price for a vehicle to be worth it to me to make the jump to electric. You can't really collect an electric vehicle like you can an internal combustion engine...but I'm getting that.
- In terms of longevity it really isn't all that practical with fully electric vehicles. That's simply due to the fact that at some point the electric motor needs to be replaced. To that end the costs associated with replacing a motor really aren't worth it versus just getting a new vehicle.
- Range is a huge issue for me. I tend to take trips which exceed 500 miles or go to very remote areas that don't have charging stations and likely never will (example; National Forests). If ranges get to 400, 500, 600, or a greater number of miles then I might be more interested.
I like the Bronco but at the same time it's getting concerning how many vehicles rely on nostalgia. While that's great at times it makes me question why new ideas can't be fresh and new but still inspire muscular styling? Cars in particular are really struggling right now with new ideas. Regarding the Bronco I believe it's on the Ranger platform?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 15, 2020, 10:30:09 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 09:49:47 PM
Generally I'm not a fan of the emergence of CUVs or electric vehicles. Its not that either is bad, I personally just find them kind of boring and vanilla. I find that odd to say given how formulaic sedans really got as the 70s, 80s, and 90s churned onward towards modern times. Some of the things going on with performance cars is absolutely amazing in terms of power and efficiency. The reemergence of muscle cars/pony cars the past two decades is something personally I've enjoyed having owned a 2010 Camaro SS and a 2016 Challenger Scat pack. I couldn't fathom buying cars with 400 plus horsepower on the regular in the 1990s and really all of the 2000s.
Did you see ford is dropping there Electric F-150 next year? Id love to hear how that sounds and how long it lasts on a charge for a working day, not a suburb dad going to the golf course day.
It also is amazing how much horse power vehicles have now.
But what did you think of the new bronco's? good or bust? I personally love them, my right hand man says they look like the car that looks like a Land Rover but its not, I forgot the name of it.
it will be a good competition for Jeep and I like the direction ford is finally going in after creating some of the ugliest cars of the 90's & 2000's
I can't see myself as a buyer of a fully electric vehicle for several reasons:
- The premium compared to a traditional internal combustion engine. There is still too far of a gap in price for a vehicle to be worth it to me to make the jump to electric. You can't really collect an electric vehicle like you can an internal combustion engine...but I'm getting that.
- In terms of longevity it really isn't all that practical with fully electric vehicles. That's simply due to the fact that at some point the electric motor needs to be replaced. To that end the costs associated with replacing a motor really aren't worth it versus just getting a new vehicle.
- Range is a huge issue for me. I tend to take trips which exceed 500 miles or go to very remote areas that don't have charging stations and likely never will (example; National Forests). If ranges get to 400, 500, 600, or a greater number of miles then I might be more interested.
I like the Bronco but at the same time it's getting concerning how many vehicles rely on nostalgia. While that's great at times it makes me question why new ideas can't be fresh and new but still inspire muscular styling? Cars in particular are really struggling right now with new ideas. Regarding the Bronco I believe it's on the Ranger platform?
Wow so electric cars aren't cheaper than gas vehicles still? I mean the base model Tesla is cheaper then most cars even with the auto pilot. how long does electric car engines last? longer than the regular or shorter? I would think more since it has less dirt and grime that comes with it.
I think we can also see the emergent of charging stations everywhere in the next 10+ years, maybe if they can start using solar power to power them in more remote locations the use of electric cars will be more feasible especially with increased range.
Also you may be right the bronco might be. I think the come back of old school cars is good if it's done right like you said, but you know the first generation is always the tester, after that they will remove and add what is liked/disliked.
The attitude of cars is more luxury now compared to before and people want SUV's/Trucks now more than before. Remember people started buying cars again because of 2009.
Regarding electric motors that are battery based they definitely won't hold up on the long term. Most automakers usually have something like a 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on the electric motor, it will need to be replaced eventually no matter what. With an internal combustion engine one could indefinitely maintain it provide they were willing to dump money into keeping it alive. That makes me question how many electric cars will be collectors items given that replacement parts probably will be a huge issue after 15-20 years.
With charging stations they are common in urban areas but definitely not in rural areas. Essentially that hugely limits the demographic to largely urban customers. I can't fathom electric charging stations being a thing in wilderness areas such as National Forests, Bureau of Land Managment areas, and make even Park Service lands.
With electric car prices it will be a premium over an internal combustion engine for some time. There are less electric vehicles made and it's still relatively new tech. As time wears on the prices will get closer to internal combustion engines but it will take time.
Cars are largely dying, they general don't offer the utility of a CUV. Most CUVs have design invitations whereas cars tend to be stuck in the same formula that was popular for volume automakers in the 1980s. Most automakers are dropping more and more cars in favor of CUVs given they are what is selling nowadays. That said the way I would describe an CUV is as such; a combination of the best attributes of Mini Van and Station Wagon but little of the stodginess.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 15, 2020, 08:21:41 PM
Bronco 2021
I'm going to step in with the unpopular opinion and say I hate it. Why? It screams "To hell with aerodynamics, 'cuz aesthetics!" I can see right through it. It's pretentious design at its worst, capitalizing on nostalgia for selective memory of a past that lacks good reason to be resurrected--the opposite of "form follows function."
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
IMO. I think both sedans & SUVs are good for certain activities & places.
Driving your Dodge Ram from Delaware to the outer banks, yea its ok if you plan to spend $100's on gas.
This is where the BMW would come into play, driving that to the outer banks is not only better on gas & etc, but now your cool.
But in all seriousness it seems ww are getting back to the days of boat cars, just with better aerodynamics.
iPhone
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 15, 2020, 08:21:41 PM
Bronco 2021
I'm going to step in with the unpopular opinion and say I hate it. Why? It screams "To hell with aerodynamics, 'cuz aesthetics!" I can see right through it. It's pretentious design at its worst, capitalizing on nostalgia for selective memory of a past that lacks good reason to be resurrected--the opposite of "form follows function."
Excuse me sir. The ranger rover, trucks & all SUV's including the mega SUV HUMMER would like a word with you about "aesthetics & aerodynamics"
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Delaware doesn't exactly have a lot of street crew (pun intended) in the off road community. There was lot of dudes with lifted two wheel drive trucks in Florida who thought they were badasses because they drove a road in the Green Swamp once. On roads like the Dush Ershim OHV Trail and Shaffer Canyon Road (this is an infinitely longer list) you don't generally see monster size SUVs. It's a different ball game when you're on a single track dirt road 9,000 feet plus in elevation facing a grade in excess of 25%.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Delaware doesn't exactly have a lot of street crew (pun intended) in the off road community. There was lot of dudes with lifted two wheel drive trucks in Florida who thought they were badasses because they drove a road in the Green Swamp once. On roads like the Dush Ershim OHV Trail and Shaffer Canyon Road (this is an infinitely longer list) you don't generally see monster size SUVs. It's a different ball game when you're on a single track dirt road 9,000 feet plus in elevation facing a grade in excess of 25%.
Oh yea what you describe is real deal off roading.
Those dudes in the big Trucks would probably turn around if they saw a real off road course.
Delaware sadly does not have a real off road crew like you said, we do have a lot if "salt life" people car shows with modded hondas, jeeps, trucks & luxury cars, as well as sub sound systems.
I do plan to bring low riders to the area though.
Also what car do you find best for off road tracks?
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Delaware doesn't exactly have a lot of street crew (pun intended) in the off road community. There was lot of dudes with lifted two wheel drive trucks in Florida who thought they were badasses because they drove a road in the Green Swamp once. On roads like the Dush Ershim OHV Trail and Shaffer Canyon Road (this is an infinitely longer list) you don't generally see monster size SUVs. It's a different ball game when you're on a single track dirt road 9,000 feet plus in elevation facing a grade in excess of 25%.
Oh yea what you describe is real deal off roading.
Those dudes in the big Trucks would probably turn around if they saw a real off road course.
Delaware sadly does not have a real off road crew like you said, we do have a lot if "salt life" people car shows with modded hondas, jeeps, trucks & luxury cars, as well as sub sound systems.
I do plan to bring low riders to the area though.
Also what car do you find best for off road tracks?
iPhone
Regarding off road courses there are some out here in California like the Hollister Hills SVRA, the State actually is pretty good at maintaining them interestingly. Personally I find what can be found in the National Forests and the Mojave Desert to be much better, certainly far more an adventure. I did the Mojave Road once with some friends years ago and it was a lot of fun. Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and Colorado are really good places for 4WD drives or OHV stuff. When I was really into Off Roading myself I tended to favor smaller SUVs that I could find cheap and build up. Most people went after the CJ and drove up the price beyond what I could typically afford at the time. I had some luck with old Chevy Blazers and even an S10 once. The parts selection was pretty top notch and a lot of stuff could be interchanged fairly easily. Regarding modern vehicles there are plenty of purpose made trucks like the Raptor that are meant for Off Roading. I was fairly impressed by my Brother's Raptor when I took out it out on the dirt portion of AZ 88. As capable as that Raptor was it also was a monster in terms of overall length and more so width. I haven't heard many complaints about the Ecotech Twin Turbo V6 over the years which had me surprised.
Am I just imaging things or did a ton of the replies in this thread disappear? I was going to reply about the A4 air intake but now its gone.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 17, 2020, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Delaware doesn't exactly have a lot of street crew (pun intended) in the off road community. There was lot of dudes with lifted two wheel drive trucks in Florida who thought they were badasses because they drove a road in the Green Swamp once. On roads like the Dush Ershim OHV Trail and Shaffer Canyon Road (this is an infinitely longer list) you don't generally see monster size SUVs. It's a different ball game when you're on a single track dirt road 9,000 feet plus in elevation facing a grade in excess of 25%.
Oh yea what you describe is real deal off roading.
Those dudes in the big Trucks would probably turn around if they saw a real off road course.
Delaware sadly does not have a real off road crew like you said, we do have a lot if "salt life" people car shows with modded hondas, jeeps, trucks & luxury cars, as well as sub sound systems.
I do plan to bring low riders to the area though.
Also what car do you find best for off road tracks?
iPhone
Regarding off road courses there are some out here in California like the Hollister Hills SVRA, the State actually is pretty good at maintaining them interestingly. Personally I find what can be found in the National Forests and the Mojave Desert to be much better, certainly far more an adventure. I did the Mojave Road once with some friends years ago and it was a lot of fun. Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and Colorado are really good places for 4WD drives or OHV stuff. When I was really into Off Roading myself I tended to favor smaller SUVs that I could find cheap and build up. Most people went after the CJ and drove up the price beyond what I could typically afford at the time. I had some luck with old Chevy Blazers and even an S10 once. The parts selection was pretty top notch and a lot of stuff could be interchanged fairly easily. Regarding modern vehicles there are plenty of purpose made trucks like the Raptor that are meant for Off Roading. I was fairly impressed by my Brother's Raptor when I took out it out on the dirt portion of AZ 88. As capable as that Raptor was it also was a monster in terms of overall length and more so width. I haven't heard many complaints about the Ecotech Twin Turbo V6 over the years which had me surprised.
Holy shit a S10 or blazer for off roading, I would never thought of that & its smart. I do like the new ford raptors, people put kits on them so im glad it's not just a for show truck & it can actually do some work.
Also it's funny you didn't mention jeep & they are primarily off roaders, how would the new jeep truck do out on those roads?
iPhone
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 17, 2020, 12:06:17 AM
Am I just imaging things or did a ton of the replies in this thread disappear? I was going to reply about the A4 air intake but now its gone.
No you're right, it did disappear. I commented as well. Someone deleted or it might have glitched.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:36:01 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 15, 2020, 08:21:41 PM
Bronco 2021
I'm going to step in with the unpopular opinion and say I hate it. Why? It screams "To hell with aerodynamics, 'cuz aesthetics!" I can see right through it. It's pretentious design at its worst, capitalizing on nostalgia for selective memory of a past that lacks good reason to be resurrected--the opposite of "form follows function."
Excuse me sir. The ranger rover, trucks & all SUV's including the mega SUV HUMMER would like a word with you about "aesthetics & aerodynamics"
Oh, I know! I've just seen hype over the 2021 Ford Bronco in other places, and I can't help but think it's way over-hyped. It started when someone on Twitter posted about how boring the new Chevy Blazer is and implied the new Bronco is better, but it got me thinking, "Wait a second, not really." Call the Blazer boring all you like, but at least it gave some noticeable attention to aerodynamics.
Frankly, though, all these SUVs and CUVs with nearly vertical grilles really bug me, when they could probably push the envelope even further in aerodynamic design. If you want a tall vehicle with more vertical cargo space than what you'd get from a sedan or traditional station wagon, I really think we ought to go back to the kind of forms offered by the Toyota Previa, the original Pontiac Trans Sport concept, or maybe a less blocky iteration of the Ford Aerostar. Modeling new cars and trucks after old-school pickups and Chevy Suburbans just seems unnecessary when 21st century auto designers could do better.
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 17, 2020, 07:36:50 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:36:01 PM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 06:57:10 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 15, 2020, 08:21:41 PM
Bronco 2021
I'm going to step in with the unpopular opinion and say I hate it. Why? It screams "To hell with aerodynamics, 'cuz aesthetics!" I can see right through it. It's pretentious design at its worst, capitalizing on nostalgia for selective memory of a past that lacks good reason to be resurrected--the opposite of "form follows function."
Excuse me sir. The ranger rover, trucks & all SUV's including the mega SUV HUMMER would like a word with you about "aesthetics & aerodynamics"
Oh, I know! I've just seen hype over the 2021 Ford Bronco in other places, and I can't help but think it's way over-hyped. It started when someone on Twitter posted about how boring the new Chevy Blazer is and implied the new Bronco is better, but it got me thinking, "Wait a second, not really." Call the Blazer boring all you like, but at least it gave some noticeable attention to aerodynamics.
Frankly, though, all these SUVs and CUVs with nearly vertical grilles really bug me, when they could probably push the envelope even further in aerodynamic design. If you want a tall vehicle with more vertical cargo space than what you'd get from a sedan or traditional station wagon, I really think we ought to go back to the kind of forms offered by the Toyota Previa, the original Pontiac Trans Sport concept, or maybe a less blocky iteration of the Ford Aerostar. Modeling new cars and trucks after old-school pickups and Chevy Suburbans just seems unnecessary when 21st century auto designers could do better.
I mean to be honest. How well they are making cars nowadays with good MPG the aerodynamics can chill out a bit, since it would be only a couple miles you save on a more aerodynamic car.
Vehicles will start to be designed differently when we have new creators, example: Tesla with the new Tesla truck. That shit is fire & They may be a success, which would cause all the other car companies to start designing different vehicles & ditch the normal way.
Personally I think the vehicles in the 1950's were beautiful, style, luxury, good colors. They designed cars for people to enjoy, which they started to take advantage of in now times with different "packages" but all the technology stuff that was poppin 20 years for luxury cars ago is now in every car.
The next step would be self driving in every vehicle.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 17, 2020, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 17, 2020, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Delaware doesn't exactly have a lot of street crew (pun intended) in the off road community. There was lot of dudes with lifted two wheel drive trucks in Florida who thought they were badasses because they drove a road in the Green Swamp once. On roads like the Dush Ershim OHV Trail and Shaffer Canyon Road (this is an infinitely longer list) you don't generally see monster size SUVs. It's a different ball game when you're on a single track dirt road 9,000 feet plus in elevation facing a grade in excess of 25%.
Oh yea what you describe is real deal off roading.
Those dudes in the big Trucks would probably turn around if they saw a real off road course.
Delaware sadly does not have a real off road crew like you said, we do have a lot if "salt life" people car shows with modded hondas, jeeps, trucks & luxury cars, as well as sub sound systems.
I do plan to bring low riders to the area though.
Also what car do you find best for off road tracks?
iPhone
Regarding off road courses there are some out here in California like the Hollister Hills SVRA, the State actually is pretty good at maintaining them interestingly. Personally I find what can be found in the National Forests and the Mojave Desert to be much better, certainly far more an adventure. I did the Mojave Road once with some friends years ago and it was a lot of fun. Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and Colorado are really good places for 4WD drives or OHV stuff. When I was really into Off Roading myself I tended to favor smaller SUVs that I could find cheap and build up. Most people went after the CJ and drove up the price beyond what I could typically afford at the time. I had some luck with old Chevy Blazers and even an S10 once. The parts selection was pretty top notch and a lot of stuff could be interchanged fairly easily. Regarding modern vehicles there are plenty of purpose made trucks like the Raptor that are meant for Off Roading. I was fairly impressed by my Brother's Raptor when I took out it out on the dirt portion of AZ 88. As capable as that Raptor was it also was a monster in terms of overall length and more so width. I haven't heard many complaints about the Ecotech Twin Turbo V6 over the years which had me surprised.
Holy shit a S10 or blazer for off roading, I would never thought of that & its smart. I do like the new ford raptors, people put kits on them so im glad it's not just a for show truck & it can actually do some work.
Also it's funny you didn't mention jeep & they are primarily off roaders, how would the new jeep truck do out on those roads?
iPhone
I want to say the current Wrangler is only about 74 inches wide compared to the meaty 86 (I think?) inches on the Raptor. The standard cab Wrangler is about 50 inches shorter than a Raptor as well. The 3.6L Pentastar was/is pretty good in car applications but I tend to question how well it would do with low end torque (apparently it's only 260ftlbs). From what I've seen in reviews the Wrangler does just fine off road, the Gladiator seems preforms similarly.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 17, 2020, 11:54:20 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 17, 2020, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 17, 2020, 12:03:33 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 11:38:34 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:27:38 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 10:30:04 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 10:24:53 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:29:24 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 16, 2020, 11:12:58 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I would add that I'm one of the customers that chose a sedan in favor of a CUV. The Impreza suited my needs just fine and has a cargo capacity that worked for me. The off road capabilities were plenty adequate for what I was looking to do as well. So why would I want to spend the extra money to purchase a CrossTrek or Forester? I regularly transport four or five people to places like National Parks and they seem to be comfortable in all the seats.
Because, you ever heard the phrase bigger is better? I think thats how the economy & people are thinking right now.
iPhone
People who say that don't hang out on one lane Forest Service roads. Even the hardcore SUV guys tend to stick vehicles of smaller dimensions like the Wrangler.
Oh god. Ive seen dudes in coal rollin diesels on the c&D canel here in Delaware.
iPhone
Delaware doesn't exactly have a lot of street crew (pun intended) in the off road community. There was lot of dudes with lifted two wheel drive trucks in Florida who thought they were badasses because they drove a road in the Green Swamp once. On roads like the Dush Ershim OHV Trail and Shaffer Canyon Road (this is an infinitely longer list) you don't generally see monster size SUVs. It's a different ball game when you're on a single track dirt road 9,000 feet plus in elevation facing a grade in excess of 25%.
Oh yea what you describe is real deal off roading.
Those dudes in the big Trucks would probably turn around if they saw a real off road course.
Delaware sadly does not have a real off road crew like you said, we do have a lot if "salt life" people car shows with modded hondas, jeeps, trucks & luxury cars, as well as sub sound systems.
I do plan to bring low riders to the area though.
Also what car do you find best for off road tracks?
iPhone
Regarding off road courses there are some out here in California like the Hollister Hills SVRA, the State actually is pretty good at maintaining them interestingly. Personally I find what can be found in the National Forests and the Mojave Desert to be much better, certainly far more an adventure. I did the Mojave Road once with some friends years ago and it was a lot of fun. Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and Colorado are really good places for 4WD drives or OHV stuff. When I was really into Off Roading myself I tended to favor smaller SUVs that I could find cheap and build up. Most people went after the CJ and drove up the price beyond what I could typically afford at the time. I had some luck with old Chevy Blazers and even an S10 once. The parts selection was pretty top notch and a lot of stuff could be interchanged fairly easily. Regarding modern vehicles there are plenty of purpose made trucks like the Raptor that are meant for Off Roading. I was fairly impressed by my Brother's Raptor when I took out it out on the dirt portion of AZ 88. As capable as that Raptor was it also was a monster in terms of overall length and more so width. I haven't heard many complaints about the Ecotech Twin Turbo V6 over the years which had me surprised.
Holy shit a S10 or blazer for off roading, I would never thought of that & its smart. I do like the new ford raptors, people put kits on them so im glad it's not just a for show truck & it can actually do some work.
Also it's funny you didn't mention jeep & they are primarily off roaders, how would the new jeep truck do out on those roads?
iPhone
I want to say the current Wrangler is only about 74 inches wide compared to the meaty 86 (I think?) inches on the Raptor. The standard cab Wrangler is about 50 inches shorter than a Raptor as well. The 3.6L Pentastar was/is pretty good in car applications but I tend to question how well it would do with low end torque (apparently it's only 260ftlbs). From what I've seen in reviews the Wrangler does just fine off road, the Gladiator seems preforms similarly.
https://youtu.be/cB1FZ5ksYc8 (https://youtu.be/cB1FZ5ksYc8)
[mention]stridentweasel [/mention]
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on July 19, 2020, 09:31:42 AM
https://youtu.be/cB1FZ5ksYc8
[mention]stridentweasel [/mention]
Hmm-- They tried the removable roof thing with the 2000s 2-seater Ford Thunderbird. It was a PITA, and that car didn't stay on the market for a ton of years. Removable doors make sense if you're not worried about random strangers lounging in your car when you make a pit stop. I guess people who use those will be locking their glove compartments and hoping they didn't leave their--tablet computer or whatever portable game system is popular these days--inside the console. I frankly never understood why the Jeep Wrangler had those, but whatever. It sounds like they made a good decision with the EcoBoost 4-cylinder engine, but I wish I knew what kind of fuel economy it got. If you want a car/CUV/truck with great fuel economy, Jeep is not your best model.
As for the off-roading capabilities, it gets me thinking about a topic I've been meaning to bring up at some point. What if our economic downturn in the U.S. is so severe that we just can't afford to pave roads like we used to? It seems like the car market could step in and offer more cars/trucks that can safely handle all the potholes, crumbling pavement, patchwork pavement, or lack of pavement, without significant wear and tear. Can they do that
and maintain speed and fuel economy?
I'm not a car expert at all. Any optimism I had for tall cars went out the window (or the removable roof/doors) after the beautiful Pontiac Trans Sport concept from the 80s turned into the poorly built, often mocked Dustbuster minivans that you barely ever see on the road anymore, and the rest of the market went in the direction of SUVs that all too often lack serious concern for practical matters like fuel efficiency. My childhood dream cars were big-ass Lincolns from the 70s and 80s, and the big-ass GM B-bodies that went away after 1996, but these days, I'd be more likely to pick up a Chevy Spark if I was in the market for a new vehicle.
Just some rambling, early morning thoughts.
Regarding an economic downturn that would defer road resurfacing to a large degree, I would point to what you see in Mexico. The main highways are paved albeit generally far below American expectations aside from an Autopista. People still drive cars and they actually tend to be the preferred mode of transportation along with small trucks in addition to mopeds. When you consider even basic new cars cost over $100,000 Pesos it makes sense that people buy what they can and hold onto it for a long time. At minimum State Side we at least don't have to deal with cobblestone roads as a regular thing.
Some models won't be with us for the 2021 model year in the US.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/newsstand/curbside-newsstand-honda-fit-civic-coupe-accord-stick-shift-join-toyota-yaris-chevy-sonic-and-hyundai-accent-on-the-chopping-block/
Meanwhile FCA(Fiat-Chrysler) had merged with Peugeot-Citroen/PSA.
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/17/stellantis-fca-chrysler-name-change/
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
Well, this old fart with bad knees can get in and out of an SUV much more easily than a sedan.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on July 20, 2020, 11:39:27 AM
Some models won't be with us for the 2021 model year in the US.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/newsstand/curbside-newsstand-honda-fit-civic-coupe-accord-stick-shift-join-toyota-yaris-chevy-sonic-and-hyundai-accent-on-the-chopping-block/
The Honda Fit seemed like a nice, versatile, very useful car. I'm surprised. The Chevy Sonic, I can kind of understand. If you're going to go small, might as well go all the way and get a Spark.
Quote from: frankenroad on July 20, 2020, 12:41:17 PM
Well, this old fart with bad knees can get in and out of an SUV much more easily than a sedan.
I have to admit, my dad had the same issue. In that respect, I can understand the utility of a CUV over a sedan or traditional station wagon. Personally, I'd rather see more sleek and fuel-efficient CUVs like the Chevy Trax, but better. My parents had a Trax for a while, and it drove just fine and got good mileage but was disappointing in practically every other aspect (especially the small side-view mirrors).
What about crossover sedans? I don't know; maybe that would be too much of a niche market to be viable, but I'm wondering if they could have any advantage over the usual tall station wagon.
Thoughts on the new controversial BMW 4-series grille? I would take the current (19-20) 3-Series one over it, though I think it is starting to grow on me.
The new TLX was brought up a while back. I like where Acura is going with their newer vehicles, the RDX and TLX in particular. In addition to the refreshed interior, the diamond-pentagon grille is a huge upgrade from the old beaker grille. If I were to get a CUV I would get the RDX provided I had the money, one of the reasons being it has a bit more HP than competitors like the X3 or the GLC for a bit less $$.
Quote from: ozarkman417 on July 20, 2020, 01:12:20 PM
Thoughts on the new controversial BMW 4-series grille? I would take the current (19-20) 3-Series one over it, though I think it is starting to grow on me.
The new TLX was brought up a while back. I like where Acura is going with their newer vehicles, the RDX and TLX in particular. In addition to the refreshed interior, the diamond-pentagon grille is a huge upgrade from the old beaker grille. If I were to get a CUV I would get the RDX provided I had the money, one of the reasons being it has a bit more HP than competitors like the X3 or the GLC for a bit less $$.
I think it's crazy that despite that almost the entire world requires front license plates aside from a few states/provinces in the US and Canada, automakers continue to design vehicles that look stupid with front license plates.
I would have preferred to see the new 4-series grille debut on a higher end BMW, but it's fine.
I don't get the hype for the new Bronco. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a Wrangler rip-off.
Quote from: US 89 on July 20, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
I don't get the hype for the new Bronco. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a Wrangler rip-off.
I'm glad to see some competition in the segment - I would like to purchase a basic, manual transmission SUV that has actual off-road capability in the next couple years, and while the Bronco isn't perfect either it should help to drive down the cost of both vehicles if they seriously compete with each other. This is good because the price of a Wrangler has gotten insane.
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on July 20, 2020, 11:39:27 AM
Some models won't be with us for the 2021 model year in the US.
https://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/newsstand/curbside-newsstand-honda-fit-civic-coupe-accord-stick-shift-join-toyota-yaris-chevy-sonic-and-hyundai-accent-on-the-chopping-block/
Meanwhile FCA(Fiat-Chrysler) had merged with Peugeot-Citroen/PSA.
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/07/17/stellantis-fca-chrysler-name-change/
Good riddance to the Civic coupe. Both it and the Accord coupe had been much less good looking to me than their sedan counterparts in recent years.
So then the only manual options for Honda in the US are the Civic, Civic SI and Civic Type R?
^ yes (I think the manual HR-V was dropped a year or two ago), and the latter two are notably still only available with a manual, something I think only one or two other cars in the US can say, which, like the Si and Type R, are performance variants. Off the top of my head, the Subaru STi, and the Mustang GT350 if it's still being made. I don't know if there's a manual-only version of the Camaro right now, but IIRC the last generation Z28 was. If we still got the Focus and Fiesta over here, the ST trims would be manual only, but we don't. And frankly, I'm glad, because (unpopular opinion alert) the new Focus and Fiesta are much uglier than their predecessors.
Quote from: corco on July 20, 2020, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 20, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
I don't get the hype for the new Bronco. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a Wrangler rip-off.
I'm glad to see some competition in the segment - I would like to purchase a basic, manual transmission SUV that has actual off-road capability in the next couple years, and while the Bronco isn't perfect either it should help to drive down the cost of both vehicles if they seriously compete with each other. This is good because the price of a Wrangler has gotten insane.
Wasn't trying to scoop away sales from Jeep largely always what the theme of the Bronco was? Considering how much demand the Bronco has seen so far I would say that there is room for another body on frame SUV.
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200722/af0f090c3f9af8fe3d39fbde5e594000.jpg)
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Quote from: corco on July 20, 2020, 04:07:25 PM
Quote from: US 89 on July 20, 2020, 03:45:35 PM
I don't get the hype for the new Bronco. As far as I'm concerned, it's just a Wrangler rip-off.
I'm glad to see some competition in the segment - I would like to purchase a basic, manual transmission SUV that has actual off-road capability in the next couple years, and while the Bronco isn't perfect either it should help to drive down the cost of both vehicles if they seriously compete with each other. This is good because the price of a Wrangler has gotten insane.
The bronco is bringing some competition & new looks to the game.
Im tired of seeing Jeeps grill everywhere anyway. This will bring new designs to the market just like the tesla truck & cmon. Dont deny how cool it looks.
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Quote from: Tonytone on July 21, 2020, 08:37:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200722/af0f090c3f9af8fe3d39fbde5e594000.jpg)
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Really GM just needed a fresh nameplate, that was a mistake calling it the Blazer IMO. That said the Blazer sold about 23k units during the 4th quarter of 2019. In that sense Blazer turned out to be a sales hit...at least until Virus Time.
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 20, 2020, 08:26:47 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 19, 2020, 09:31:42 AM
https://youtu.be/cB1FZ5ksYc8
[mention]stridentweasel [/mention]
Hmm-- They tried the removable roof thing with the 2000s 2-seater Ford Thunderbird. It was a PITA, and that car didn't stay on the market for a ton of years. Removable doors make sense if you're not worried about random strangers lounging in your car when you make a pit stop. I guess people who use those will be locking their glove compartments and hoping they didn't leave their--tablet computer or whatever portable game system is popular these days--inside the console. I frankly never understood why the Jeep Wrangler had those, but whatever. It sounds like they made a good decision with the EcoBoost 4-cylinder engine, but I wish I knew what kind of fuel economy it got. If you want a car/CUV/truck with great fuel economy, Jeep is not your best model.
As for the off-roading capabilities, it gets me thinking about a topic I've been meaning to bring up at some point. What if our economic downturn in the U.S. is so severe that we just can't afford to pave roads like we used to? It seems like the car market could step in and offer more cars/trucks that can safely handle all the potholes, crumbling pavement, patchwork pavement, or lack of pavement, without significant wear and tear. Can they do that and maintain speed and fuel economy?
I'm not a car expert at all. Any optimism I had for tall cars went out the window (or the removable roof/doors) after the beautiful Pontiac Trans Sport concept from the 80s turned into the poorly built, often mocked Dustbuster minivans that you barely ever see on the road anymore, and the rest of the market went in the direction of SUVs that all too often lack serious concern for practical matters like fuel efficiency. My childhood dream cars were big-ass Lincolns from the 70s and 80s, and the big-ass GM B-bodies that went away after 1996, but these days, I'd be more likely to pick up a Chevy Spark if I was in the market for a new vehicle.
Just some rambling, early morning thoughts.
This is Ford trying to bring in those jeep buyers & potential jeep buyers. They are one upping everything jeep has.
I think anyone who drives vehicles like this or convertibles know the risk of leaving items in open air.
You cant be upset/lose faith over vehicles from back in the day, they lacked the know how or money to make the car that was on the paper. So regain hope on the new vehicles.
Those are also my favorite cars from the past as well as the 1950's+ Chevy in two tones. As well as the low riders from LA. I cant wait to build one.
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The 2020 Porsche Cayenne Coupe.
https://youtu.be/toN3TfmlU7s (https://youtu.be/toN3TfmlU7s)
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 08:43:48 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 21, 2020, 08:37:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200722/af0f090c3f9af8fe3d39fbde5e594000.jpg)
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Really GM just needed a fresh nameplate, that was a mistake calling it the Blazer IMO. That said the Blazer sold about 23k units during the 4th quarter of 2019. In that sense Blazer turned out to be a sales hit...at least until Virus Time.
The generation after or maybe the next year blazer might have some design upgrades, this look of SUV with aerodynamics kills the new designs. I dont think people buy SUV's caring about MPG so they need to forget about aerodynamic designs.
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Quote from: Tonytone on July 21, 2020, 08:55:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 08:43:48 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 21, 2020, 08:37:45 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200722/af0f090c3f9af8fe3d39fbde5e594000.jpg)
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Really GM just needed a fresh nameplate, that was a mistake calling it the Blazer IMO. That said the Blazer sold about 23k units during the 4th quarter of 2019. In that sense Blazer turned out to be a sales hit...at least until Virus Time.
The generation after or maybe the next year blazer might have some design upgrades, this look of SUV with aerodynamics kills the new designs. I dont think people buy SUV's caring about MPG so they need to forget about aerodynamic designs.
iPhone
But the new Blazer is clearly CUV territory given it is based off a FWD unibody platform. That's the problem, that nameplate comes with expectations that are contrary to what was produced. In the case of the SUV crowd they largely saw it as a slap in the face.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
But the new Blazer is clearly CUV territory given it is based off a FWD unibody platform. That's the problem, that nameplate comes with expectations that are contrary to what was produced. In the case of the SUV crowd they largely saw it as a slap in the face.
One could say the same about the Impala after it went from the RWD B-Body to the FWD W-Body. One could go even farther back and say the same thing about the Pontiac Grand Prix, Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme, and Buick Regal after they went from the RWD G-Body to the FWD W-Body. Same for the Malibu after it was brought back in the 90s. I have mixed feelings about re-using old names, personally.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing
Jalopnik readers.
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
Ha, station wagons are UGLY. YUCK. This aint 1975 anymore. We want CUV's SUV's TRUCKS & LUXURY SEDANS
iPhone
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
The flip side of that is the Acura TSX wagon, which had low production numbers due to a combination of neither the V6 nor the manual being available on it, and the 2011 earthquake causing facelifted TSX production to be slowed in general. Today the wagon has much higher resale than a sedan of the same year, because production never met demand.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
Ha, station wagons are UGLY. YUCK. This aint 1975 anymore. We want CUV's SUV's TRUCKS & LUXURY SEDANS
iPhone
Aren't luxury sedan sales dropping also?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2020, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
Ha, station wagons are UGLY. YUCK. This aint 1975 anymore. We want CUV's SUV's TRUCKS & LUXURY SEDANS
iPhone
Aren't luxury sedan sales dropping also?
I think Benz, Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai & Honda would like a word with you in the back office.
iPhone
Anyone else think Toyotas are getting really ugly these days? The C-HR, Sienna, and Highlander (among others) look like hot garbage.
I would actually love a station wagon. As a teen, I want cars that look cool, handle well, are efficient, and have some sort of cargo capacity. A wagon best fulfills those wants. The Outback is cool, but I would want something like a new Dodge Magnum or Jetta SportWagen. If Honda would export and homologate the JDM Jade, I would flip out.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 11:40:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2020, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
Ha, station wagons are UGLY. YUCK. This aint 1975 anymore. We want CUV's SUV's TRUCKS & LUXURY SEDANS
iPhone
Aren't luxury sedan sales dropping also?
I think Benz, Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai & Honda would like a word with you in the back office.
iPhone
I just assumed that they were all starting to emphasize CUVs like everyone else seems to be in volume brands. That wasn't an assertion that the sedan much less the luxury sedan is dead. It is kind of bizarre to me to see things like Jaguar CUVs.
Quote from: CoreySamson on July 22, 2020, 12:31:58 PM
Anyone else think Toyotas are getting really ugly these days? The C-HR, Sienna, and Highlander (among others) look like hot garbage.
Hit and miss for me. I don't mind the C-HR, although the rear visibility looks to leave a lot to be desired so I wouldn't consider one. I genuinely like the RAV4, and the Corolla hatch isn't bad. I also like the Supra, 4Runner, and Land Cruiser, but they're all out of my price range. The Camry, Avalon, Highlander, Sienna, and 86 though...yeesh. (The 86 is a shame, because as the Scion FR-S it looked quite good, and its Subaru BRZ twin still does. But oh, that facelift when they stuck the Toyota badge on it.)
Quote
I would actually love a station wagon. As a teen, I want cars that look cool, handle well, are efficient, and have some sort of cargo capacity. A wagon best fulfills those wants. The Outback is cool, but I would want something like a new Dodge Magnum or Jetta SportWagen. If Honda would export and homologate the JDM Jade, I would flip out.
You can still find Regal TourX's and Golf Sportwagens (basically the same as the Jetta, just rebranded for some reason) for good deals. Once my Aristo/GS and Fiero projects are done, I'm considering importing an early-mid 00s Toyota Crown Estate Athlete V or Toyota Mark II Blit. Both RWD turbo inline-6 powered wagons.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 21, 2020, 08:55:03 PM
I dont think people buy SUV's caring about MPG so they need to forget about aerodynamic designs.
If a buyer has narrowed his or her choices down to two different SUVs, then there's a good chance fuel economy will be a big factor in determining which one gets purchased.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 11:40:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2020, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
Ha, station wagons are UGLY. YUCK. This aint 1975 anymore. We want CUV's SUV's TRUCKS & LUXURY SEDANS
iPhone
Aren't luxury sedan sales dropping also?
I think Benz, Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai & Honda would like a word with you in the back office.
iPhone
I just assumed that they were all starting to emphasize CUVs like everyone else seems to be in volume brands. That wasn't an assertion that the sedan much less the luxury sedan is dead. It is kind of bizarre to me to see things like Jaguar CUVs.
Last year at Virginia International Raceway I saw a Lamborghini Urus. Imagine telling someone 20 years ago that Lamborghini would make another SUV.
Acura, for one, is definitely starting to focus more on SUVs than cars. The flagship RLX is being dropped after this year, and the entry-level ILX is on a decade-old Civic chassis. (The new TLX is a much, much better car than its predecessor, however, and the NSX supercar will continue to sell in the low thousands every year because it's used in sports car racing worldwide.) I, and many others, am a fan of the current RDX crossover, and may get one in the future. There's also an HR-V-based Acura called the CDX sold in Asia, and I'm shocked that they haven't seriously considered bringing it over here given how well subcompact crossovers were doing before the pandemic.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2020, 12:39:43 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 11:40:30 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 22, 2020, 11:36:09 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 22, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 22, 2020, 08:59:35 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 21, 2020, 07:55:43 PM
This is becoming something of a theme regarding market segments that once were considered dead having pent up demand. The same recently happened with the reemergence of Mid-Size trucks and happened fairly recently with Muscle Cars/Pony Cars. Does this mean there is a somewhat sizable market for a resurgence in the "real" station wagon and mini-van?
No. See: Buick Regal TourX, VW Golf Sportwagen and Alltrack, and the Volvo V60/V90. All recently released wagons, all currently clogging up dealer lots because nobody bought them. The only wagon that moves in any significant numbers is the Subaru Outback, and that's because it markets itself as an SUV.
As far as I can tell, nobody has any nostalgia for the station wagons of yore except navel-gazing Jalopnik readers.
Ha, station wagons are UGLY. YUCK. This aint 1975 anymore. We want CUV's SUV's TRUCKS & LUXURY SEDANS
iPhone
Aren't luxury sedan sales dropping also?
I think Benz, Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai & Honda would like a word with you in the back office.
iPhone
I just assumed that they were all starting to emphasize CUVs like everyone else seems to be in volume brands. That wasn't an assertion that the sedan much less the luxury sedan is dead. It is kind of bizarre to me to see things like Jaguar CUVs.
No matter what sedans will never go away.
You have some families & single people who will buy sedans like benz because they have the money, dont need a big car or live in a city.
I would drive a 1990 Bmw in Philly over my 2016 Dodge ram.
I think the big thing in the emergence of CUV's is having a SUV like car that has speed, room & style, however also having a small enough vehicle to drive into the city/backroads/suburbs with ease without having an issue.
iPhone
Quote from: kphoger on July 22, 2020, 12:44:33 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 21, 2020, 08:55:03 PM
I dont think people buy SUV's caring about MPG so they need to forget about aerodynamic designs.
If a buyer has narrowed his or her choices down to two different SUVs, then there's a good chance fuel economy will be a big factor in determining which one gets purchased.
Ehh will it? Or are they narrowing the choice down based on the features & style?
iPhone
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 15, 2020, 10:58:51 PM
I can't see myself as a buyer of a fully electric vehicle for several reasons:
- The premium compared to a traditional internal combustion engine. There is still too far of a gap in price for a vehicle to be worth it to me to make the jump to electric. You can't really collect an electric vehicle like you can an internal combustion engine...but I'm getting that.
- In terms of longevity it really isn't all that practical with fully electric vehicles. That's simply due to the fact that at some point the electric motor needs to be replaced. To that end the costs associated with replacing a motor really aren't worth it versus just getting a new vehicle.
- Range is a huge issue for me. I tend to take trips which exceed 500 miles or go to very remote areas that don't have charging stations and likely never will (example; National Forests). If ranges get to 400, 500, 600, or a greater number of miles then I might be more interested.
Not to turn this into a
gas vs. electric vehicle thread but there's been one question my brother & I have asked but have either received no answer or not a straight one.
It's common knowledge that a gas (or diesel) powered vehicle having only 1/4 tank will perform the same as a fully-fueled one; aside from cruising range. However, is such true for an electric vehicle; meaning will one with only 1/4 charge perform the same as a fully-charged one? If the actual answer to that question is still
no; that's still another challenge that electric vehicles have to overcome.
Quote from: stridentweasel on July 16, 2020, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Why are crossovers better than sedans? Crossovers are just tall station wagons. If you don't need much cargo space, why bother with a station wagon in the first place? And why make it taller when you're probably adding wind resistance and reducing cornering ability?
With a sedan, if you're just driving yourself, the seats are usually all the cargo space you need. The trunk is there for when you have passengers with bags. If you're going to be driving multiple passengers with lots of bags, then, sure, go for the station wagon.
I've stated similar in the other auto thread covering older vintages and I'll restate it here because there is some relevance to such.
Due to the higher CAFE standards that are imposed on cars vs. trucks & other vehicles; producing larger sedans &
actual station wagons based on such are largely discouraged. Such has been true for decades. Many people that are buying CUVs, SUVs & 4-door pickup trucks today would've likely bought large sedans & station wagons 2 or 3 generations ago. Why? Many sedans now, even some of the larger ones, have simply become too small to carry people comfortably, cargo & aren't available to do heavy-duty towing.
While legroom has improved in sedans over their older predecessors in most instances, shoulder-room, hip-room & rear headroom have indeed taken a hit over the years. The latter is important if one is planning to carry adult-sized passengers in the rear seats on a regular basis. At the last two new car auto shows I attended; my head was hitting the roof while sitting in the rear-seats of the majority of sedans I sat in... and I'm only
5'-7". In contrast, there was more headroom in the rear/2nd row of most of the CUVs (even the small ones) I sat in. Blame such on the more aerodynamically-sloped rooflines on most sedans; to reduce wind-drag & achieve better fuel economy.
4-door full-size pickups have since IMHO become the de-facto full-size sedans because such offer well over 5 ft. of shoulder room; a must for better 3-across seating. The last cars to offer 5'+ of shoulder room were the long-since-discontinued Panther-platformed Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car.
CUVs are also becoming more of a hit with older drivers because its taller-stance allows for easier entry/exit. Such was one reason why my father went from a used Lincoln Mark VIII coupe to a newer Ford Escape many years ago.
I had a 2020 Kia Soul for a rental for the past couple days. I see why crossovers in general have the appeal they do, but, man, what a miserable piece of shit the Soul was. Ugly, loud, slow, uncomfortable. The interior layout wasn't bad, though, and it was great on gas. Just a shame it sounded like my brother's 20-year-old Civic with an exhaust leak and bounced harder than my 20-year-old Prelude over every little bump in the road.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are
not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
In my case, I went with the Acura over the equivalent Honda because Honda still won't offer AWD on the Accord. Everything else about the TL was just a bonus.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
This is what I was referring to about sedans being luxury. Everything on a 90's vehicles that was top of the line now comes automatic in new vehicles plus all the new things you can add like colors, technology & etc.
Also Max the quality of materials & builds that the luxury automakers use is what makes them better. For example a benz is expensive to maintain but its expensive because the parts are good quality as well as the service they provide to the vehicle when it is serviced correctly. I also know dealerships of course try to squeeze every penny out but when service is done how its supposed to then of course its expensive thats the correct price.
iPhone
Quote from: Takumi on August 14, 2020, 05:22:00 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
In my case, I went with the Acura over the equivalent Honda because Honda still won't offer AWD on the Accord. Everything else about the TL was just a bonus.
If you can get a acura forget the honda. Acura is my favorite brand & was also my first car when I was 16 an acura 1998 TL to be exact. The quality & performance of that car will always be my favorite. I can't wait to get a new acura TL(X) when I have the spread to do so.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
This is what I was referring to about sedans being luxury. Everything on a 90's vehicles that was top of the line now comes automatic in new vehicles plus all the new things you can add like colors, technology & etc.
Also Max the quality of materials & builds that the luxury automakers use is what makes them better. For example a benz is expensive to maintain but its expensive because the parts are good quality as well as the service they provide to the vehicle when it is serviced correctly. I also know dealerships of course try to squeeze every penny out but when service is done how its supposed to then of course its expensive thats the correct price.
iPhone
What? I've run into my fair share of modern BMWs and Audis that weren't anymore reliable than a volume brand. I would certainly hope for a fortune that you would be treated well at a dealership...luxury brands sure make it close to impossible to work on your own car though. The level of depreciation tends to run way higher with most higher end luxury brands also.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
This is what I was referring to about sedans being luxury. Everything on a 90's vehicles that was top of the line now comes automatic in new vehicles plus all the new things you can add like colors, technology & etc.
Also Max the quality of materials & builds that the luxury automakers use is what makes them better. For example a benz is expensive to maintain but its expensive because the parts are good quality as well as the service they provide to the vehicle when it is serviced correctly. I also know dealerships of course try to squeeze every penny out but when service is done how its supposed to then of course its expensive thats the correct price.
iPhone
I would certainly hope for a fortune that you would be treated well at a dealership...luxury brands sure make it close to impossible to work on your own car though.
The German ones, sure. I can tell you from experience with Acura and Lexus they're no more difficult to work on than their volume brand counterparts, with the possible exclusion of the NSX and LFA halo cars (which are closer to Ferraris and other exotics than anything else). Agree with your other points though...Mercedes hasn't been a bastion of vehicular reliability for nearly 30 years now, and Audis are more and more becoming expensive Volkswagens, often sharing chassis with them.
Quote from: Takumi on August 24, 2020, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
This is what I was referring to about sedans being luxury. Everything on a 90's vehicles that was top of the line now comes automatic in new vehicles plus all the new things you can add like colors, technology & etc.
Also Max the quality of materials & builds that the luxury automakers use is what makes them better. For example a benz is expensive to maintain but its expensive because the parts are good quality as well as the service they provide to the vehicle when it is serviced correctly. I also know dealerships of course try to squeeze every penny out but when service is done how its supposed to then of course its expensive thats the correct price.
iPhone
I would certainly hope for a fortune that you would be treated well at a dealership...luxury brands sure make it close to impossible to work on your own car though.
The German ones, sure. I can tell you from experience with Acura and Lexus they're no more difficult to work on than their volume brand counterparts, with the possible exclusion of the NSX and LFA halo cars (which are closer to Ferraris and other exotics than anything else). Agree with your other points though...Mercedes hasn't been a bastion of vehicular reliability for nearly 30 years now, and Audis are more and more becoming expensive Volkswagens, often sharing chassis with them.
Well I think all vehicle manufacturers have a couple cars that are just defective. However I have heard of the complaints from other people that BMWs especially have issue after issue which would make me pretty upset if I spent all that money for a "luxury" vehicle Thank god for warranties right?
But we could easily go down the path that a Honda would outlast a bmw which throws my point of Luxury being better, however excluding brand new off the assembly line vehicles we could presume a good used BMW that has issues maybe wasnt taken care of by the pervious owner due to cost or just simply being ignorant of how vehicles work.
We see how people treat regular vehicles. Imagine a person with a luxury vehicle like a BMW that needs an oil change done on time & correctly but they always do it late & allow other problems to build up of course the car is gonna have issues.
Just think many of us are the majority-minority of people who would actually fix cars/treat them like our babies (cargeeks/roadgeeks.)
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 01:25:48 AM
Quote from: Takumi on August 24, 2020, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
This is what I was referring to about sedans being luxury. Everything on a 90's vehicles that was top of the line now comes automatic in new vehicles plus all the new things you can add like colors, technology & etc.
Also Max the quality of materials & builds that the luxury automakers use is what makes them better. For example a benz is expensive to maintain but its expensive because the parts are good quality as well as the service they provide to the vehicle when it is serviced correctly. I also know dealerships of course try to squeeze every penny out but when service is done how its supposed to then of course its expensive thats the correct price.
iPhone
I would certainly hope for a fortune that you would be treated well at a dealership...luxury brands sure make it close to impossible to work on your own car though.
The German ones, sure. I can tell you from experience with Acura and Lexus they're no more difficult to work on than their volume brand counterparts, with the possible exclusion of the NSX and LFA halo cars (which are closer to Ferraris and other exotics than anything else). Agree with your other points though...Mercedes hasn't been a bastion of vehicular reliability for nearly 30 years now, and Audis are more and more becoming expensive Volkswagens, often sharing chassis with them.
Well I think all vehicle manufacturers have a couple cars that are just defective. However I have heard of the complaints from other people that BMWs especially have issue after issue which would make me pretty upset if I spent all that money for a "luxury" vehicle Thank god for warranties right?
But we could easily go down the path that a Honda would outlast a bmw which throws my point of Luxury being better, however excluding brand new off the assembly line vehicles we could presume a good used BMW that has issues maybe wasnt taken care of by the pervious owner due to cost or just simply being ignorant of how vehicles work.
We see how people treat regular vehicles. Imagine a person with a luxury vehicle like a BMW that needs an oil change done on time & correctly but they always do it late & allow other problems to build up of course the car is gonna have issues.
Just think many of us are the majority-minority of people who would actually fix cars/treat them like our babies (cargeeks/roadgeeks.)
iPhone
Really when you take a close look at quality surveys and customer reviews there isn't much difference between highest rated manufacturers down to the worst. Low volume or higher price doesn't always equate to a higher build quality. How a vehicle is maintained over time has far more to do how much care the owner puts in over things like popular consumer perceptions which are rooted in the 80s/90s. One for sure is that you won't find Yugo level cars out on the market anymore no matter where you look.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 07:41:13 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 01:25:48 AM
Quote from: Takumi on August 24, 2020, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 24, 2020, 12:10:34 AM
Quote from: Tonytone on August 24, 2020, 12:02:03 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 14, 2020, 12:20:42 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 14, 2020, 12:11:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 16, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 16, 2020, 09:53:26 AM
Crossovers are definitely the pick of the litter these days, although the car is hanging on for a little bit longer, mainly in the form of import models like Camry, Accord, Altima, Sentra, Civic, Corolla, Impreza, Legacy, Sonata, Elantra, Jetta, Passat, Mazda 3 and 6, plus the luxury marques Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, Mercedes-Benz, BMW and others. Save for Cadillac, no American automaker is building sedans these days, but they're better off with the crossovers anyway.
Like I said before, sedans are looked at as a luxury vehicle now, while CUV, SUV & Trucks are looked at as business/family vehicles.
Look the the listed sedan models in Henry's quote. Many of them are not luxury vehicles. As a matter fact, he even separates the luxury marques from the mainstream ones.
The big difference with cars, SUVs, and trucks now versus three/four decades ago is a large percentage of them can be decked out with serious luxury appointments. I'm not even sure why people really buy luxury brands anymore aside from a sense of prestige.
This is what I was referring to about sedans being luxury. Everything on a 90's vehicles that was top of the line now comes automatic in new vehicles plus all the new things you can add like colors, technology & etc.
Also Max the quality of materials & builds that the luxury automakers use is what makes them better. For example a benz is expensive to maintain but its expensive because the parts are good quality as well as the service they provide to the vehicle when it is serviced correctly. I also know dealerships of course try to squeeze every penny out but when service is done how its supposed to then of course its expensive thats the correct price.
iPhone
I would certainly hope for a fortune that you would be treated well at a dealership...luxury brands sure make it close to impossible to work on your own car though.
The German ones, sure. I can tell you from experience with Acura and Lexus they're no more difficult to work on than their volume brand counterparts, with the possible exclusion of the NSX and LFA halo cars (which are closer to Ferraris and other exotics than anything else). Agree with your other points though...Mercedes hasn't been a bastion of vehicular reliability for nearly 30 years now, and Audis are more and more becoming expensive Volkswagens, often sharing chassis with them.
Well I think all vehicle manufacturers have a couple cars that are just defective. However I have heard of the complaints from other people that BMWs especially have issue after issue which would make me pretty upset if I spent all that money for a "luxury" vehicle Thank god for warranties right?
But we could easily go down the path that a Honda would outlast a bmw which throws my point of Luxury being better, however excluding brand new off the assembly line vehicles we could presume a good used BMW that has issues maybe wasnt taken care of by the pervious owner due to cost or just simply being ignorant of how vehicles work.
We see how people treat regular vehicles. Imagine a person with a luxury vehicle like a BMW that needs an oil change done on time & correctly but they always do it late & allow other problems to build up of course the car is gonna have issues.
Just think many of us are the majority-minority of people who would actually fix cars/treat them like our babies (cargeeks/roadgeeks.)
iPhone
Really when you take a close look at quality surveys and customer reviews there isn't much difference between highest rated manufacturers down to the worst. Low volume or higher price doesn't always equate to a higher build quality. How a vehicle is maintained over time has far more to do how much care the owner puts in over things like popular consumer perceptions which are rooted in the 80s/90s. One for sure is that you won't find Yugo level cars out on the market anymore no matter where you look.
Does RR & Bentley have the same issue defects? You never hear about those having issues. Or maybe the owners have enough money to get them fixed so they never complain.
Performance & quality are among the two major qualities that luxury cars have.
iPhone
Something you're also forgetting with ultra high end luxury brands (and even super cars) is that they barely get driven the same amount as normal volume vehicles. Your Bentley no doubt will probably be issue free if it's been sitting in the garage for five years and accumulated only 6,000 miles.
Rolls Royces / Bentleys quite often tend to wind up as heirlooms, interestingly. I've been to a few dealers and seeing 1960-1990s models come in for repairs/maintenance was not all that unusual. Seeing a car that their parents or grandparents had, then kept up nicely gives the warm fuzzies of nostalgia, even if it's no longer worth the price of a new house.
Usually the high-end stuff have defects, recalls, and technical bulletins but it is very rare the warranty runs out by mileage rather than time. The owners might only put on 1000-3000 miles per year on it unless they're super rich or really like that car; they're very likely to own several cars at that point. Their supercar loses a little "magic" if it's driven every day, but that doesn't stop some from trying it. But sometimes a 100,000-mile used supercar hits the second-hand market and that bargain-priced money pit usually takes a lot of financial support to keep running.
There's really a country club mentality when you drop off the car for services or repairs; You Have To Pay To Play and most people at that position will not say no unless they're eyeing a new vehicle. Incidentally, those were my best customers at Lexus and Audi - repairs were far less than the stratospheric prices on some of their other toys. That's not to say there aren't times customers with lesser wallets and smarter senses who understandably declined work with way too many issues.
My experience has been much as Formulaone and Max Rockatansky outline above--quality and reliability have different meanings in the upper price echelons.
It might be different for the German makes, but my experience with Toyota and Lexus has been that the latter is usually the first to receive technical advances, and often does so before the bugs are fully worked out. For example, electronically actuated throttles were used on Lexus models (including the LS) beginning, if memory serves, in the late 1990's, and did not begin appearing on Toyotas until the early noughties. Even as far back as 1994, Lexus was using an electronically actuated second throttle in the throttle body to cut off air to the engine when the drive wheels hit a slick patch and traction control has to activate--less elaborate designs (such as in my 1994 Saturn) relied on the ABS system to clamp on the brakes to restrain wheelspin. Back in 2015, when I was considering buying a 1994 LS as a hobby car, the owner had just gotten it back from the shop after having the second throttle repaired.
A Lexus, even from the mid-nineties, does offer a premium experience. But a well-equipped Toyota ten years newer typically offers a similar feature complement (the only one I can think of that is missing is memory seats), is at least comparable in reliability, runs on unleaded regular instead of premium, and is better engineered for service owing to greater maturity of the underlying design. OEM parts are also significantly cheaper.
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Ok honda! You are getting into the groove now.
Honda can easily make good trucks that last as long as their cars & make a killing. People loves trucks, especially good ones.
iPhone
Quote from: Tonytone on October 07, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Ok honda! You are getting into the groove now.
Honda can easily make good trucks that last as long as their cars & make a killing. People loves trucks, especially good ones.
iPhone
I would still contend even a small truck with a transverse mounted engine and unibody construction is a flawed design, but at least looks the part after about a decade.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 07, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Ok honda! You are getting into the groove now.
Honda can easily make good trucks that last as long as their cars & make a killing. People loves trucks, especially good ones.
iPhone
I would still contend even a small truck with a transverse mounted engine and unibody construction is a flawed design, but at least looks the part after about a decade.
This is Honda we’re talking about, a company that has long refused to follow conventional wisdom on many things. Never made a road car with more than 6 cylinders, only done a longitudinal layout 3-4 times in the past 40 or so years, etc. Kinda makes sense they’d make a truck on a chassis that was once an Accord.
Quote from: Takumi on October 07, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 07, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Ok honda! You are getting into the groove now.
Honda can easily make good trucks that last as long as their cars & make a killing. People loves trucks, especially good ones.
iPhone
I would still contend even a small truck with a transverse mounted engine and unibody construction is a flawed design, but at least looks the part after about a decade.
This is Honda we're talking about, a company that has long refused to follow conventional wisdom on many things. Never made a road car with more than 6 cylinders, only done a longitudinal layout 3-4 times in the past 40 or so years, etc. Kinda makes sense they'd make a truck on a chassis that was once an Accord.
Yes but their refusal to give the truck market what they want hasn't helped their volume. The Ridgeline is declining in a booming small/mid-size truck market. The competition offers what truck buyers tend to want, even if it is only a nominal difference in reality. Apparently the Ridgeline is a profitable line though despite the low volume.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Looks kinda like they stuck on a Tacoma's grill and gave it Honda looks. At least it doesn't look like a Pilot anymore.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 11:19:43 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 07, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 07, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Ok honda! You are getting into the groove now.
Honda can easily make good trucks that last as long as their cars & make a killing. People loves trucks, especially good ones.
iPhone
I would still contend even a small truck with a transverse mounted engine and unibody construction is a flawed design, but at least looks the part after about a decade.
This is Honda we're talking about, a company that has long refused to follow conventional wisdom on many things. Never made a road car with more than 6 cylinders, only done a longitudinal layout 3-4 times in the past 40 or so years, etc. Kinda makes sense they'd make a truck on a chassis that was once an Accord.
Yes but their refusal to give the truck market what they want hasn't helped their volume. The Ridgeline is declining in a booming small/mid-size truck market. The competition offers what truck buyers tend to want, even if it is only a nominal difference in reality. Apparently the Ridgeline is a profitable line though despite the low volume.
Makes sense that it'd be profitable. All they did was retool the Pilot a bit. Was it declining before the Ranger came back?
Quote from: Takumi on October 08, 2020, 10:09:23 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 11:19:43 PM
Quote from: Takumi on October 07, 2020, 11:12:03 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 10:02:50 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on October 07, 2020, 09:44:50 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on October 07, 2020, 07:39:21 PM
Looks like Honda finally figured out the Ridgeline should at least look like a truck:
https://www.yahoo.com/autos/2021-honda-ridgeline-debuts-finally-191500874.html
Ok honda! You are getting into the groove now.
Honda can easily make good trucks that last as long as their cars & make a killing. People loves trucks, especially good ones.
iPhone
I would still contend even a small truck with a transverse mounted engine and unibody construction is a flawed design, but at least looks the part after about a decade.
This is Honda we're talking about, a company that has long refused to follow conventional wisdom on many things. Never made a road car with more than 6 cylinders, only done a longitudinal layout 3-4 times in the past 40 or so years, etc. Kinda makes sense they'd make a truck on a chassis that was once an Accord.
Yes but their refusal to give the truck market what they want hasn't helped their volume. The Ridgeline is declining in a booming small/mid-size truck market. The competition offers what truck buyers tend to want, even if it is only a nominal difference in reality. Apparently the Ridgeline is a profitable line though despite the low volume.
Makes sense that it'd be profitable. All they did was retool the Pilot a bit. Was it declining before the Ranger came back?
Slightly before, although it looks like they are a gradual decline through the 40,000 range rather than a plummet.
Were I looking for a truck, I'd at least cross-shop the Ridgeline with a few similarly sized trucks: the Tacoma, Ranger, Colorado, and maybe the Frontier are all about the right size I'd want in a truck. Outside of a short bed single cab, an F-series-sized truck is too big for me. I recently drove an F150 briefly at work, and found it to be much too large.
Saw a new Corvette for the first time last Thursday on I-79 southbound somewhere between Weston and the exit for Corridor L. At first I wasn't sure what was coming up behind us in the other lane until I made out the Corvette logo at a distance. It was then instantly obvious what it was. I've never been a Corvette person; if I were to look at that sort of car, I'd be more likely to look at one of the European models, likely the Boxster or Cayman. But the new Corvette looked sharp. It looked a lot more like one of the European cars; initially at a distance I wondered if it might be a Ferrari approaching, though I figured that was very unlikely in the middle of West Virginia. This model could open up a whole new market for the car. I once saw something distinguishing between Porsche people and Corvette people and suggesting if you like one, you're not likely to buy the other. Fair enough traditionally, but I suspect that could change to some degree with the new model.
The guy driving it obviously realized I was checking out the car in my mirrors and as he went by because he flashed a peace sign as he passed us.
I've seen a few C8s now. It does sort of look like a cross between a Ferrari and a C7.
(For those unaware, the new Corvette is now mid-rear-engined, which had been rumored to happen for years if not decades.)
How are we feeling about the emergence of all the new and upcoming electric vehicles since we last spoke about them?
It's amazing that only 4 years ago you barely saw any, however in this day and age I see one everywhere from highway to city to suburb.
Quote from: Tonytone on July 02, 2022, 10:28:36 PM
How are we feeling about the emergence of all the new and upcoming electric vehicles since we last spoke about them?
It's amazing that only 4 years ago you barely saw any, however in this day and age I see one everywhere from highway to city to suburb.
Still mostly "meh." 27k (pre-tax credit) is a huge ask for the most entry level EV equivalent in the form of the Bolt. Range is still an issue along with charging times and a general lack of infrastructure. Maybe in five years it will be more optimistic than it is now, but I don't see myself going upmarket for a new EV commuter as it currently stands.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2022, 10:50:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 02, 2022, 10:28:36 PM
How are we feeling about the emergence of all the new and upcoming electric vehicles since we last spoke about them?
It's amazing that only 4 years ago you barely saw any, however in this day and age I see one everywhere from highway to city to suburb.
Still mostly "meh." 27k (pre-tax credit) is a huge ask for the most entry level EV equivalent in the form of the Bolt. Range is still an issue along with charging times and a general lack of infrastructure. Maybe in five years it will be more optimistic than it is now, but I don't see myself going upmarket for a new EV commuter as it currently stands.
That's the thing that gets me, for the price of an EV the range (which is still pitiful even with the higher end models) max range is like 300+ Miles.
Then it goes down even more depending how you drive and use simple things like Heat and A/C.
The New Tesla truck they showed off with a range of 300 Miles for the $150,000 model and 500 Miles for the $180,000 Model is insane, that truck is only good for city driving there's no way that's gonna take off until it's at 1000+ miles per charge or some type of charge drive system.
https://www.tesla.com/semi (https://www.tesla.com/semi)
They are making great advances but until I can get in my Tesla I got for $10,000 used with a 400+ Range that actually lasts Ill be sticking to that good ol 97 & 95
Quote from: Tonytone on July 02, 2022, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2022, 10:50:34 PM
Quote from: Tonytone on July 02, 2022, 10:28:36 PM
How are we feeling about the emergence of all the new and upcoming electric vehicles since we last spoke about them?
It's amazing that only 4 years ago you barely saw any, however in this day and age I see one everywhere from highway to city to suburb.
Still mostly "meh." 27k (pre-tax credit) is a huge ask for the most entry level EV equivalent in the form of the Bolt. Range is still an issue along with charging times and a general lack of infrastructure. Maybe in five years it will be more optimistic than it is now, but I don't see myself going upmarket for a new EV commuter as it currently stands.
That's the thing that gets me, for the price of an EV the range (which is still pitiful even with the higher end models) max range is like 300+ Miles.
Then it goes down even more depending how you drive and use simple things like Heat and A/C.
The New Tesla truck they showed off with a range of 300 Miles for the $150,000 model and 500 Miles for the $180,000 Model is insane, that truck is only good for city driving there's no way that's gonna take off until it's at 1000+ miles per charge or some type of charge drive system.
https://www.tesla.com/semi (https://www.tesla.com/semi)
They are making great advances but until I can get in my Tesla I got for $10,000 used with a 400+ Range that actually lasts Ill be sticking to that good ol 97 & 95
Regardless of when I make the jump to an EV commuter I'll be holding onto my ICE cars for road trips. Really it is a matter of picking between the Impreza and Forester, the Challenger definitely isn't going anywhere. There are too many dark holes out west I would hate to be wanting for a charging station or potentially having an EV-style (see what happens to Teslas, they basically freeze in place) break down.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on July 02, 2022, 10:50:34 PM
Regardless of when I make the jump to an EV commuter I'll be holding onto my ICE cars for road trips. Really it is a matter of picking between the Impreza and Forester, the Challenger definitely isn't going anywhere. There are too many dark holes out west I would hate to be wanting for a charging station or potentially having an EV-style (see what happens to Teslas, they basically freeze in place) break down.
That's a good point about car trips and it's especially true for the Midwest/West I forget how uninhabited most of those areas out west are I'm used to the Built up NorthEast so not finding a Gas station or Charging station in this area would be unlikely. Being on a mountain or desert out there broken down because you can't find a charging station is a big UH OH.
Also that whole Tesla freezing up when it dies thing is bonkers. You're telling me they didn't put a neutral in that vehicle? or Neutral doesn't work without power? I just recently saw a video of a guy who died 6 FEET from the charging station, and had to WAIT for a tow truck. Must be a design flaw or miscommunication on how to put it in Neutral.
At this point in time Gas/Oil and Coal have proven to be the best power sources in vehicles (outside of nuclear power) those power sources are the main reason we even got this far in humanity so far so those are definitely around to stay.
What the heck is the deal with the Chevy Captiva in the US? It was sold in other countries, but I've seen some (at least 5) around here in the US with Texas license plates. Were they sold to fleets? Are they a popular car to import from Mexico? Or is there something else going on here? It doesn't really make sense to me considering Chevy had the Equinox around at the same time. I know it is a rebadged Saturn Vue, so maybe that had something to do with it?
I figured this thread would be the best place to put this question.
Quote from: CoreySamson on August 02, 2022, 08:40:47 PM
What the heck is the deal with the Chevy Captiva in the US? It was sold in other countries, but I've seen some (at least 5) around here in the US with Texas license plates. Were they sold to fleets? Are they a popular car to import from Mexico? Or is there something else going on here? It doesn't really make sense to me considering Chevy had the Equinox around at the same time. I know it is a rebadged Saturn Vue, so maybe that had something to do with it?
I figured this thread would be the best place to put this question.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/01/automobiles/autoreviews/a-chevy-so-exclusive-that-you-can-only-borrow-not-buy.html
The Chevrolet Captiva, in the early 2010s, was sold as a rental fleet-only vehicle in the USA. The one you saw was very likely used.
(https://www.americanrhetoric.com/videoclips/videomoviespeechpatton.jpg)
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/15/dodge-challenger-charger-to-be-discontinued-in-2023.html (https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/15/dodge-challenger-charger-to-be-discontinued-in-2023.html)
I present for your consideration, the Mustang Mach-E Hearse:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/all-right-who-asked-for-a-mustang-mach-e-hearse?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR3XBHifkz4N7AToMcGLNqmzfR2tlbtbxXkfoZQ59M0aFoO7brn4nk8YrUU&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
(https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2023/01/17/mustang-mach-e-hearse-lead-image.jpg)
Make it a little taller and paint it white and you got yourself a Popemobile!
A hearse is a great use case for an electric vehicle though. They make short trips to the same handful of places usually only during normal business hours so there's plenty of time to recharge every night when electric rates are lowest.
I'm starting to notice the new Toyota Crown here in Japan (the crossover sedan bodystyle). I gotta say, pictures don't do it justice, it looks much better in-person. Still keen to see the other body styles when they launch (like the wagon and non-lifted sedan), as I've long preferred non-lifted cars.
The local Toyota dealer is having a launch party of the new Prius in the next couple weeks, definitely interested to see how that looks in-person. Hoping pictures do it justice and it looks great in-the-flesh.
I haven't seen a new Crown yet, but Toyota is advertising it pretty strongly on social media. I also haven't seen the new Integra, any 11th gen Civic beyond the base models, GR Corolla (though I did see a GR Yaris in South Africa), or the internet's favorite hype machine, the "new" Nissan Z.
I don't see the 2024 Mustang helping with the happiness. Its NASCAR counterpart will sure look disturbing.
At least the Mustang already has the Mach-E version, and we also know that Dodge is cancelling the Challenger (along with its big brother, the Charger) after this year. Any word yet on what Chevy is going to do with the Camaro (Mach-E competitor, perhaps)?
Quote from: Henry on January 24, 2023, 10:17:19 AM
At least the Mustang already has the Mach-E version, and we also know that Dodge is cancelling the Challenger (along with its big brother, the Charger) after this year. Any word yet on what Chevy is going to do with the Camaro (Mach-E competitor, perhaps)?
Rumor is that the will be a Camaro EV-CUV. The Charger has a replacement coming for 2024:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Charger_Daytona_SRT
FWIW, I do like the look of the EV Charger but the synthetic exhaust is silly/stupid:
There's a new generation of regular Mustang, too. Production starts later this year.
Might be a hot take, but I think every new car these days, regardless of manufacturer, is ugly. The newest trend now is to have very thin headlights and taillights that go across the whole back of the car and they don't look good to me at all. Even worse is the style like all the Cadillacs do now where the lights have weird extensions wrapping around the side of the car. I'm not sure there's any car made after 2015 that I legitimately like how it looks.
Premature Electrification (PE):
Happy state of affairs indeed?...if real?
https://www.motortrend.com/news/camsoda-sexla-robotaxi-self-driving/?lid=m84hzt93t78w&eml=organic%3Aeml%3Abrz2&utm_source=braze&utm_medium=emaileditorial
When I see some EVs crossing the San Rafael Swell under their own power....
Mike
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 24, 2023, 07:10:43 PM
Happy state of affairs indeed?...if real?
https://www.motortrend.com/news/camsoda-sexla-robotaxi-self-driving/?lid=m84hzt93t78w&eml=organic%3Aeml%3Abrz2&utm_source=braze&utm_medium=emaileditorial
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
Now that indeed is a Happy Affair.