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New area codes: Split, overlay, or meh?

Started by hbelkins, January 04, 2023, 07:13:20 PM

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When a new area code is created, which method do you prefer?

A split -- all numbers within a certain geographical area change area codes
16 (27.6%)
An overlay -- existing numbers keep the same area code but new numbers get the new area code
32 (55.2%)
Matters not to me
10 (17.2%)

Total Members Voted: 58

hotdogPi

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

New Hampshire is free of sales tax.
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Takumi

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2023, 07:39:14 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 04, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

In general, I agree with this. In principle, I like the idea of a split and of preserving seven-digit dialing, but in practice that's often impractical because it would result in such minuscule area code areas. When 571 was overlain on 703, that was the reason given–703 had already become much smaller when 540 was split off, and they decided they couldn't just keep shrinking the area.

The advantage to an overlay is that everyone can keep his current number(s).

Until the early 1970s, 703 was the entire state's area code. I've got a rotary phone in my kitchen that shows the phone number my grandparents had at the time, and it's a 703 number.
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Don't @ me. Seriously.

Ted$8roadFan

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 11:21:58 AM
Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

New Hampshire is free of sales tax.

It also matters for states with sales taxes, as the rates can differ (e.g. MA's rate is slightly less than RI and CT).

1995hoo

Quote from: Takumi on January 05, 2023, 11:37:43 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2023, 07:39:14 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 04, 2023, 10:09:08 PM
For me, it's largely a question of the size of the area code. If it's an area code that covers a state, for example, I think splitting is the best thing to do. If it's an area code in a metropolitan area, I'd go with the overlay.

In general, I agree with this. In principle, I like the idea of a split and of preserving seven-digit dialing, but in practice that's often impractical because it would result in such minuscule area code areas. When 571 was overlain on 703, that was the reason given–703 had already become much smaller when 540 was split off, and they decided they couldn't just keep shrinking the area.

The advantage to an overlay is that everyone can keep his current number(s).

Until the early 1970s, 703 was the entire state's area code. I've got a rotary phone in my kitchen that shows the phone number my grandparents had at the time, and it's a 703 number.

Right, and in terms of the original system, the use of 804 for the split-off area was a mild oddity because the middle zero was originally supposed to denote an area code that applied to an entire state. But in terms of 703, what I was saying about it becoming much smaller in the 1990s was meant to indicate that after 804 was split off, 703 still extended all the way down to Cumberland Gap, so it was still a big "area" geographically until the 540 split.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Dirt Roads

Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
The overlays are less disruptive, for sure. As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

You think?  As the University of North Carolina has expanded (mainly in its Health Care wing), they still couldn't get enough new landline numbers in Area Code 919 after the overlay took affect.  About three years after the split, the entire UNC system ended up switching over to Area Code 984, the overlay which was supposed to be used for new cell phone services.  It was a big pain for the affected parties to make the switch.

kphoger

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on January 05, 2023, 11:38:45 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 11:21:58 AM

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 11:10:50 AM

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 10:22:24 AM
Hampshire Rd. in Methuen MA and Salem NH, which crosses several times, has multiple businesses. Extend this to the nearby businesses on Route 28. The area code is an identifier for which state the business is in, which doesn't always match the side of the street. Of course, being across a state line, split/overlay is irrelevant here, but the area code is definitely useful.

Why does it important to determine what state each business is in when looking up its phone number?

New Hampshire is free of sales tax.

It also matters for states with sales taxes, as the rates can differ (e.g. MA's rate is slightly less than RI and CT).

In what context are you seeing a business's phone number but not its full address?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

US 89

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 10:19:16 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on January 04, 2023, 10:50:07 PM
As much as people get an identity from their area code, that identity has become increasingly irrelevant.

In my experience, that isn't really a thing for most people these days.

Yeah it is. There are plenty of people and ad campaigns that refer to Atlanta as "the 404". The road half of me is horrified, but there are companies that make 801 beehive merch for Utah, like this coffee mug.

Also, plenty of people use area codes in their social media bios and such to indicate their location, especially if they've moved at all. I don't do it, but if I did, it'd look something like "801 ➡️ 404 ➡️ 850".

Side note: I don't like the 850/448 overlay because not only is it large, but there are clearly two major population centers in it. I wish they had done a split along the east end of Walton County, so that Pensacola and Tallahassee would have been the centers of the new codes.

hotdogPi

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 12:12:19 PM
In what context are you seeing a business's phone number but not its full address?

Seeing it in person as I walk, or for other people, more likely while driving.
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Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 40, 107, 109, 117, 119, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

kphoger

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:13:01 PM

Quote from: kphoger on January 05, 2023, 12:12:19 PM
In what context are you seeing a business's phone number but not its full address?

Seeing it in person as I walk, or for other people, more likely while driving.

So, like, on a billboard?  I'm still trying to imagine a situation in which I'd be seeing the phone number for a business, have been heretofore unaware what state it's in, be considering patronizing said business, decide to base my decision on which side of the state line it's on, and not also be seeing the business's full address.

How frequently do you find yourself in such a situation?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hotdogPi

#34
I'm mainly thinking of this place, which is where I play Magic: the Gathering. To me, it doesn't matter which state it's in, but at least it's obvious that it's in Massachusetts with a 978 area code.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7417425,-71.2027635,3a,75y,239.25h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuLAYITE_VIVhNKAZ2NXIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I think I'm misremembering more businesses showing phone numbers than actually exist. For example, the convenience store in the foreground is in NH (where alcohol laws are more relaxed), where they claim they're the "first store in New Hampshire", and Plaza Azteca is in Massachusetts (with slightly lower meals' tax), with no indication at all.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7411183,-71.1979221,3a,75y,158.35h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7KAg9g9y7X2xTOsxt9PhzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This one's not a phone number, but Lowe's explicitly says on a banner that they're in New Hampshire.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7407235,-71.1974033,3a,75y,36.42h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slS9qOwRTHC1a88JWQvZ9ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One town over, this laundromat had a sign saying "We're still in Massachusetts – masks still required by state law!" (The restriction has been lifted by now.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

These businesses are in Massachusetts by a few feet – the parked cars are in New Hampshire. No indication.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 13, 44, 50
MA 22, 40, 107, 109, 117, 119, 126, 141, 159
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

kphoger

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:25:00 PM
One town over, this laundromat had a sign saying "We're still in Massachusetts – masks still required by state law!" (The restriction has been lifted by now.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

Am I missing the phone number in that shot?

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:25:00 PM
These businesses are in Massachusetts by a few feet – the parked cars are in New Hampshire. No indication.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

So... in case you're walking close enough by the strip mall to see the salon's phone number in the window, and decide you need to get your nails done without an appointment, you'll know what the tax rate is?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: 1 on January 05, 2023, 12:25:00 PM
I'm mainly thinking of this place, which is where I play Magic: the Gathering. To me, it doesn't matter which state it's in, but at least it's obvious that it's in Massachusetts with a 978 area code.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7417425,-71.2027635,3a,75y,239.25h,90.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuLAYITE_VIVhNKAZ2NXIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

I think I'm misremembering more businesses showing phone numbers than actually exist. For example, the convenience store in the foreground is in NH (where alcohol laws are more relaxed), where they claim they're the "first store in New Hampshire", and Plaza Azteca is in Massachusetts (with slightly lower meals' tax), with no indication at all.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7411183,-71.1979221,3a,75y,158.35h,87.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7KAg9g9y7X2xTOsxt9PhzQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This one's not a phone number, but Lowe's explicitly says on a banner that they're in New Hampshire.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7407235,-71.1974033,3a,75y,36.42h,73.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slS9qOwRTHC1a88JWQvZ9ew!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One town over, this laundromat had a sign saying "We're still in Massachusetts – masks still required by state law!" (The restriction has been lifted by now.)
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8146755,-71.1039397,3a,75y,247.83h,96.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DHcWphV2dL0Gy_e77vluIJA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D55.9486%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

These businesses are in Massachusetts by a few feet – the parked cars are in New Hampshire. No indication.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.8150611,-71.1036226,3a,75y,176.49h,80.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjmn0WSjTxOzo79qt0xX5-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Rarely, other than the signs the government puts up to say "Welcome to..." along the roadway (which arent usually exactly at the state line), will there be any indication you're crossing a state line.

And people are generally horrible at figuring out a tax difference. It's notable for states near a tax-free location, but if you're talking a rate difference of 1% or 2%, nearly no one will notice.  There's been a few times I questioned a total that should be, say, $40 and not $50, and the employee will say, oh, it's the sales tax. No, it's not a 25% tax. It's a bad price.

vdeane

Area codes as identity is still a thing.  In fact, I think I hear "the 518" more often than I hear "the Capital District".
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SP Cook

I really don't care.  As mentioned above there are a number of places that use the area code as some kind of slang for the area.  Seen it in Cincinnati (513) and the Virginia Tidewater area (757) among other places. 

One issue with overlays is that it identifies newcomers, which can be a bad thing. 

thenetwork

Northeast Ohio owns the 234 area code.

Wonder who took the phone number of 1-234-567-8900?

kphoger

Quote from: SP Cook on January 05, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
One issue with overlays is that it identifies newcomers, which can be a bad thing. 

Somewhat, but not necessarily.  As I mentioned, if someone moves within the same area but crosses a rate center boundary, they'll have to get a new landline number and might end up with the new area code–even if they've lived in the area their whole life.  Similarly, if someone buys their teenager a cell phone, there's a chance the added number will come with the new area code.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

oscar

#41
Quote from: SP Cook on January 05, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
As mentioned above there are a number of places that use the area code as some kind of slang for the area.  Seen it in Cincinnati (513) and the Virginia Tidewater area (757) among other places.   

Washington, D.C. is fond of its 202 area code as an identifier for the city. Its new overlay 771, adopted in 2021, caused some consternation for that reason, much more than the 571 overlay for what's left of the 703 area code in northern Virginia.

My smartphone has a 571 number. That confuses some people outside the area, who didn't know that 571 was an area code or that it covers northern Virginia.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
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kphoger

How it comes in handy the most is for knowing when a call from an unknown number is likely to be a scam.  If it begins with the same (316) 640- as my own cell phone, but the person isn't already in my list of contacts, then it's all but guaranteed to be some scammer from India.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

Quote from: SP Cook on January 05, 2023, 01:07:57 PM
....

One issue with overlays is that it identifies newcomers, which can be a bad thing. 

More properly, it is often perceived as identifying newcomers. You can be a longstanding resident who gets an additional phone number that winds up being assigned to the new area code (e.g., my Google Voice number is a 571 number, whereas my home and mobile numbers are 703 numbers and I've lived in the area since 1974). But you can also be a newcomer who gets a phone number with the "old" area code (e.g., I've had my work number since 2019, but it's a 212 area code because my employer has a bunch of numbers it can assign to employees).

There was a Seinfeld episode about Elaine changing her phone number after Kramer signed her up to receive restaurant menus by fax (he wrongly thought she had a fax machine). She was assigned a 646 area code and it caused her much consternation, including when a guy rejected her for a date because he didn't know what the area code was. She eventually got a new 212 number when her neighbor died and she was able to get that number.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2023, 02:53:25 PM
But you can also be a newcomer who gets a phone number with the "old" area code (e.g., I've had my work number since 2019, but it's a 212 area code because my employer has a bunch of numbers it can assign to employees).

Yep.  An area getting an overlay doesn't mean the phone companies no longer issue new numbers with the old area code.  The phone provider don't even already have to be in possession of it.  Anytime someone moves out of the area, that number later becomes available again.

I remember, when Tulsa got its 539 overlay, I was working in dispatch (which in this industry means provisioning equipment for service, altering work orders, and troubleshooting service issues for field techs).  And still, most new accounts I saw set up for phone service were getting the 918 area code.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

thenetwork

I remember back when local prefixes never used the numbers "1" or "0" as the 2nd digit -- those were only used in area codes.

bandit957

I remember when half the time when you'd call someone, the phone company had a recorded message that said, "We're sorry, all circuits are busy." This was common with Cincinnati Bell up until about 1990. This made it hard to win prizes from radio stations, unless it was a really small station with not many listeners.

In the 2000s when we still used pay phones, half the time you'd put your coins in the phone and you'd get a message that repeated, "Error 6...Error 6." The phone would not refund your money.
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

chrisdiaz

I think large areas that are easily able to be split SHOULD be split. For example: 843 should have been split instead of overlaid. The area can easily be divided between Myrtle Beach, Georgetown, and the rest of the northern area, and then everything south of Georgetown county, like Charleston. Also, Maryland's eastern shore could easily have another area code as a split instead of being overlaid within the Baltimore area code zone.

ZLoth

WHen I lived in California, I remember the 916-530 area code split that took place in November 1st, 1997 that split most of Northeast California (which is sparsely populated) into 530 from the Sacramento area. There was no good way to split the Sacramento area again, so the 279 area code overlay took effect on March 10, 2018. It just meant that everyone now had to dial a full ten digits instead of seven. Try explaining that to a seasoned citizen whose entire life was dialing seven digits, and anything starting with 1 was an expensive long distance call.

On the Dallas side of DFW, we have the 214 area code (1947), 972 (1990), 469 (1999), and 945 (2021, but in standby). On the Fort Worth side, there is 817 (1953) and 682 (2000).

Personally, with number portability and mobile phones, it doesn't really matter as much now as it did years ago when everyone had land lines and calling outside your and neighboring calling area meant a "local long distance" call. I only changed my mobile number from a Sacramento area code to a Dallas area code more to look like a local.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

MikeTheActuary

The problem with area code splits is just how many devices that have affected phone numbers programmed in have to be changed, and the headaches caused by businesses and individuals in impacted areas.

Consider someone in Long Beach, CA.

Before 1991, their phone number would have been 213-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1991, their phone number became 310-xxx-yyyy
Then in 1997, their phone number became 562-xxx-yyyy

Every business in what is now in 562 had to change all their letterhead, business cards, etc. twice in six years.  Every device programmed to call a phone in that region had to be reprogrammed twice in six years.

Fortunately, changes in how phone numbers are allocated, and other changes in telecommunications have slowed the rate of number exhaustion in most area codes....and fortunately the CPUC now allows overlays instead of splits, completely eliminating the need for such disruption in the future.

Numbers should be, and are now, portable.  Few phone subscribers are exposed to the risk of domestic long-distance calls being tolled at a different rate than local calls.   It's time to quit thinking of area codes as describing geography (other than differentiating among countries within the NANP).



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