Wisconsin notes

[mgk920]

I hope once the reconstruction of 41/94 south of Milwaukee and the reconstruction of the Zoo Interchange are completed in the next few years, the state can provide funding for the final design and construction of the following two freeway reconstruction projects: Interstate 94 between 70th St. and 16th St. (http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/94stadiumint/default.aspx) and Interstate 43 between Silver Spring Dr. and STH-60 (http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/43crdr/default.aspx)

That would be nice, but I'm anticipating a political fight. Although the Zoo is in its final stages, now the Foxcon project ramping up. Tensions will be high elsewhere in the state, with so much cash being devoted to the SE region for so many years and now years to come. No one has made any promises that funding the Foxcon project won't disrupt the schedule of 2019+ projects (and those are the ones already in the hopper...not including all the crumbling sections not even programmed). WisDOT already got less Federal $$ then they had hoped. It's going to be ugly for the foreseeable future.

The southeast part of the state has been largely ignored for the past 30 years with regards to transportation funding. There have been highways of questionable value built all over the state, but the infrastructure needs of the state's most populous region have not been properly addressed. It's time to address them.

A lot of that was due to the attitudes of the locals, especially the political powers-that-be in Milwaukee (ie, John Norquist and Tom Barrett).  "You don't want that freeway work?  OK, we'll do it elsewhere."  The rebuilds of the Marquette, Mitchell and Zoo interchanges were because they could not wait any longer and their health and fluidity was soooooo critical to the economic health of the entire state.

Mike

[DaBigE]

I hope once the reconstruction of 41/94 south of Milwaukee and the reconstruction of the Zoo Interchange are completed in the next few years, the state can provide funding for the final design and construction of the following two freeway reconstruction projects: Interstate 94 between 70th St. and 16th St. (http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/94stadiumint/default.aspx) and Interstate 43 between Silver Spring Dr. and STH-60 (http://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/se/43crdr/default.aspx)

That would be nice, but I'm anticipating a political fight. Although the Zoo is in its final stages, now the Foxcon project ramping up. Tensions will be high elsewhere in the state, with so much cash being devoted to the SE region for so many years and now years to come. No one has made any promises that funding the Foxcon project won't disrupt the schedule of 2019+ projects (and those are the ones already in the hopper...not including all the crumbling sections not even programmed). WisDOT already got less Federal $$ then they had hoped. It's going to be ugly for the foreseeable future.

The southeast part of the state has been largely ignored for the past 30 years with regards to transportation funding. There have been highways of questionable value built all over the state, but the infrastructure needs of the state's most populous region have not been properly addressed. It's time to address them.

A lot of that was due to the attitudes of the locals, especially the political powers-that-be in Milwaukee (ie, John Norquist and Tom Barrett).  "You don't want that freeway work?  OK, we'll do it elsewhere."  The rebuilds of the Marquette, Mitchell and Zoo interchanges were because they could not wait any longer and their health and fluidity was soooooo critical to the economic health of the entire state.

Mike

And unfortunately, the rest of the state won't see it that way. They'll just see the big dollars spent on the interchange rebuilds and pre-Foxconn 94 work and say that the SE has had it's share and it's their turn at a large slice of the shrinking pie.

[JREwing78]

'Accident waiting to happen': Officials make push for Interstate 41 expansion
https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2018/07/05/interstate-41-officials-push-highway-expansion/758948002/

[Big John]

^^ Another link about it (no paywall): http://www.wbay.com/content/news/41-frustration-high-crash-numbers-lead-to-call-for-expansion-486625031.html

[mgk920]

^^

I would further break down those crash statistics in that half of the section quoted (Breezewood Ln in Neenah to WI 15 in Appleton) is six and eight lanes and as far as I can tell functions well while the four lane part from WI 15 to the WI 441 'Northeast' interchange (across Appleton's north side) is where the problems are.  I agree that the highway's surface is fine, there are no problems with its physical condition, only with its massive, excessive traffic volume for its four lanes.

The entire section from WI 15 to Scheuring Rd in De Pere (in the Green Bay area) badly needs upgrading to six lanes although yes, the part in Appleton is most critical.  The only question that I keep reminding others of when they bring it up is 'How much do you want the fuel tax to go up?'

BTW, there is good video of the east-west section of I-41 in Appleton in the WBAY report.

Mike

[Bickendan]

The DOT reminds residents that major highway developments are complex, costly and sometimes controversial.

LOL at the controversial part. Here's a case where people want a freeway expansion, and they pull out the controversial card.

[on_wisconsin]

The only question that I keep reminding others of when they bring it up is 'How much do you want the fuel tax to go up?'

As much as reasonably necessary, bring back RTA's while your at it as well. /snark

[GeekJedi]

The only question that I keep reminding others of when they bring it up is 'How much do you want the fuel tax to go up?'

Enough to fix the darned roads.

[tchafe1978]

We can either raise the gas to enough to keep up with needed maintenance and projects, keep bonding and borrowing to keep up with needed maintenance and projects, or let the roads fall apart and congestion get worse. Which option would you choose? I think I'd pick raising the gas tax.

[The Ghostbuster]

I think we need to convert to some sort of user fee that works better than a gas tax. The gas tax is mostly obsolete, and cannot raise enough money to address all our road work needs. Maybe a tax based on vehicle miles traveled?

[jakeroot]

When was the last time the gas tax was raised in Wisconsin? If its been a while, it would be smart to raise it again. And then start working on a per-mile tax replacement for the future. This is what we're doing out here in the PNW.

[SSOWorld]

When was the last time the gas tax was raised in Wisconsin? If its been a while, it would be smart to raise it again. And then start working on a per-mile tax replacement for the future. This is what we're doing out here in the PNW.

It has been frozen and no politician will even mention it as they're scared for their jobs.

[jakeroot]

When was the last time the gas tax was raised in Wisconsin? If its been a while, it would be smart to raise it again. And then start working on a per-mile tax replacement for the future. This is what we're doing out here in the PNW.

It has been frozen and no politician will even mention it as they're scared for their jobs.

Bunch of idiots. How are they paying for roads? Or rather, how have they been failing to pay? Because I keep seeing stories on Wisconsin having money problems.

[SSOWorld]

One - I-94 - was funded by redirects from other projects and grants thanks to the Foxconn construction.

[DaBigE]

Every little bit helps, but even if Wisconsin would have retained its automatic gas tax indexing, would it have been enough to keep up with needs and rising costs?

[triplemultiplex]

Every little bit helps, but even if Wisconsin would have retained its automatic gas tax indexing, would it have been enough to keep up with needs and rising costs?

Tough to say, but at the very least, things would not be so bad.
The other great thing about the indexing was there didn't need to be a big fight over road funding every few years.  No one had to stick their necks out.  "Anti-tax boogieman" makes for more effective campaign ads then "insufficiently invested in infrastructure boogieman."

What pisses me off the most about losing that indexing is Doyle only jumped on board in a futile attempt to court voters who were not going to vote for him anyway.  "Oh look at me, I'll be all bi-partisan and woo a few of those suburbanites who drive every where."  Idiot.  This is America.  People don't change their stupid minds.  Elections are won when people show up to vote.  That's it.  Candidate A gets more turnout than Candidate B; Candidate A wins.  Vote switchers are insignificant by comparison.

But that was 8 goddamn years ago.  Republicans have been in charge ever since so the road funding shortfall is now their problem.  They've had the power to fix this but won't.  Shit or get off the pot, GOP.

[jakeroot]

Every little bit helps, but even if Wisconsin would have retained its automatic gas tax indexing, would it have been enough to keep up with needs and rising costs?

Probably not. But, if they did a one time increase, and then froze the automatic indexing until such point as the one-time increase matches what the gas tax would have eventually been, they'd have a higher income for several years to pay for larger projects that the steady tax increase might not pay for (due to inflation). All while still maintaining the steady increase for maintenance and other basic improvements.

[WarrenWallace]

But will never happen in the current environment.  State officials are on record saying that any money received from online sales tax would be offset with cuts to other parts of the budget.  Which to me is just dumb.

[jakeroot]

But will never happen in the current environment.  State officials are on record saying that any money received from online sales tax would be offset with cuts to other parts of the budget.  Which to me is just dumb.

So they're struggling with what they have, yet don't want any more money? I am so confused.

[SEWIGuy]

But will never happen in the current environment.  State officials are on record saying that any money received from online sales tax would be offset with cuts to other parts of the budget.  Which to me is just dumb.

So they're struggling with what they have, yet don't want any more money? I am so confused.

It's very simple when you think of it in these terms:  Scott Walker will be running for President in 2024 and doesn't want anything resembling a tax hike on his record.
quote fix --sso

[jakeroot]

But will never happen in the current environment.  State officials are on record saying that any money received from online sales tax would be offset with cuts to other parts of the budget.  Which to me is just dumb.

So they're struggling with what they have, yet don't want any more money? I am so confused.

It's very simple when you think of it in these terms:  Scott Walker will be running for President in 2024 and doesn't want anything resembling a tax hike on his record.

Well, I'd rather have a tax hike than a budgetary shortfall on my record. I'd say more but this thread'll get locked.

[dvferyance]

But will never happen in the current environment.  State officials are on record saying that any money received from online sales tax would be offset with cuts to other parts of the budget.  Which to me is just dumb.

So they're struggling with what they have, yet don't want any more money? I am so confused.

It's very simple when you think of it in these terms:  Scott Walker will be running for President in 2024 and doesn't want anything resembling a tax hike on his record.
quote fix --sso

I really doubt he would run for president again. He wasn't even a top contender when he ran and was 2nd only to Rick Perry to drop out. The real problem is Wis Dot waste too much on project nobody wants. And they are always replacing signs that are by no means in need of replacement.

[jakeroot]

But will never happen in the current environment.  State officials are on record saying that any money received from online sales tax would be offset with cuts to other parts of the budget.  Which to me is just dumb.

So they're struggling with what they have, yet don't want any more money? I am so confused.

It's very simple when you think of it in these terms:  Scott Walker will be running for President in 2024 and doesn't want anything resembling a tax hike on his record.

I really doubt he would run for president again. He wasn't even a top contender when he ran and was 2nd only to Rick Perry to drop out. The real problem is Wis Dot waste too much on project nobody wants. And they are always replacing signs that are by no means in need of replacement.

Which projects do you think were unpopular?

Seems like WisDOT is spending money like they used to, however, they aren't taking money in like they once were.

You either have a high budget, and high-quality infrastructure. Or, a low budget, and crumbling infrastructure. I don't know what the situation is in Wisconsin, but over here in Washington, WSDOT is having to spend a lot of money on maintenance and rebuilding because many of our freeways and major arterials are coming to the end of their original lifespan. This wasn't a major problem twenty years ago, like it is now. Stuff like the new 520 bridge, or new 99 tunnel, were only built because the original infrastructure was inadequate for modern times, mostly because of structural fragility. There were other advantages to rebuilding, but the weren't the primary one. From the 70s to the 90s, if they weren't building new roads, they were improving existing ones to meet new demand. This often resulted in freeways with two types of pavement: the original (not yet old enough to need replacing), and the new.

Wisconsin, like many state DOTs who might have deferred maintenance, has two priorities right now: rebuild and maintain existing structures, and improve the infrastructure to meet demand. Doing both at the same time requires a very large budget.

Here in Washington, there have been three major gas tax increases since 2000. Many of the projects funded as part of these increases were new projects that improved flow, sometimes by rebuilding what already existed, and improving it by adding lanes, etc. WSDOT could not have funded many of their new projects without a gas tax increase, because the main yearly operating budget goes primarily to maintenance. Capital improvement programs are a separate section of the budget, and are usually the bits funded by gas tax increases.

[GeekJedi]

The real problem is Wis Dot waste too much on project nobody wants.

Projects you don't like are not the same as projects nobody wants. Unless you can actually name one...

[dvferyance]

The real problem is Wis Dot waste too much on project nobody wants.

Projects you don't like are not the same as projects nobody wants. Unless you can actually name one...

Replacing signs that are in fine condition is something I am sure most could agree is a waste of money. From what I understood the Burlington bypass was not very well supported won there at the time it was being built. They also go ahead and build roundabouts even if it's not in the interest of the community to becasue they always act like they know better. The Hwy 18 and 83 one in Wales was widely opposed by local officials there.